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Shipon has issued a correction as of 08:10 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 08:04
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Epic High Five posted:
I intend to. If Biden is the nom, I won't be excited about it but I will vote for him over Trump. Agree it's lesser of two evils but Trump is pretty loving evil. I also think it's worth doing since I often find myself wondering how different our country might look if we had elected Gore, Kerry or even McGovern. I think the country would be in a better place.
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Nov 19, 2019 12:05
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More like Poopon
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Nov 19, 2019 13:29
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i know it's not trump people getting their faces eaten by the leopard they voted to live in their house, but i genuinely appreciate some of the ideas people are proposing because of the derail. the idea that voting for the lesser of two evils just ensures that you're only ever going to be given that same option time and again is powerful and, despite feeling very obvious once you hear it, was not previously self-evident to me. i guess the frustrating thing for me is, it feels like not taking the lesser of two evils choice is still putting vulnerable people at risk, because it creates the possibility that the fascists get to secure another 4 years holding the executive branch hostage. like, the lesser of two evils is obviously not good, but it might at least reduce the immediate harm coming to people that are already living in the margins. maybe i could personally weather another 4 years of trump, but i feel like it's unethical to voluntarily opt-out of the electoral process in order to send a message about the validity of democratic candidates, with the very real consequence of my actions being it's going to be another 4 years before we find out whether or not my protest action even mattered. the system is going to continue to exist whether or not i personally participate. how do people square all that with their desire to help others? focus on acting locally, community action, and take the national politics as a loss in the short term?
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Nov 19, 2019 17:06
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are you expecting all of those marginalized people to only live another four years? because it's not like Trump's just gonna go away and there's never gonna be another one of him if we stay the course and change nothing about the conditions that put him in power and put those people on the margins in the first place. You can either try to change the game, which isn't guaranteed to work and carries nonzero risk of doing some short-term harm, or resign yourself to the idea that we are all doomed and focus solely on short-term palliative electoralism with the absolute certainty of total harm in the very near future. In the near term, it's not like everything was copacetic here in Baltimore until Trump became president and suddenly the city had Problems, and there's little chance any change in who's in Washington in 2020 is gonna instantly turn around the lives of trans folks sleeping under the bridge by Second Chance or latchkey kids written off by the system and roughed up by our gangster cops, that's poo poo we've got to deal with locally first. Federal elections are just laying the groundwork for things to (potentially) get better eventually, if the federal outlook fundamentally changes from the bipartisan establishment consensus of "lmao let it burn, if those people weren't lazy and deserving of misery daddy woulda got them into Yale" and there's local institutions for the feds to fund and support when the mood strikes them. A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 17:43 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 17:22
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I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this and understand that my first reaction would also be radical left or hell world for all I care...But I kind of get the feeling that those espousing this viewpoint will not be the first ones crushed under the boot if fascist hellworld chugs on. If it's just my ignorance speaking here I accept that but if there's a choice between the evil, migrant killer racist party and the evil, wall street enabling bootlickers I'd be tempted to vote for those who won't kill migrants and people of colour...
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Nov 19, 2019 17:37
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:are you expecting all of those marginalized people to only live another four years? yes? i mean, we've got human beings in concentration camps on our borders, that seems like it's an imminent threat in real time. i guess i don't know for certain how long anyone is going to live, but it definitely seems like there's a ton of time sensitive problems occurring simultaneously. maybe they aren't? i don't know, i'm trying to make sense of this and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of time left to leisurely turn things around (incrementalism has proven pretty well toothless)
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Nov 19, 2019 17:43
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An insane mind posted:I'm sorry if I offend anyone with this and understand that my first reaction would also be radical left or hell world for all I care...But I kind of get the feeling that those espousing this viewpoint will not be the first ones crushed under the boot if fascist hellworld chugs on. the evil, wall street bootlicking party was deporting people back to countries where they'll get murdered (because of our actions) and putting kids in cages before the migrant killer party was. they're no different, but they've convinced people they are so they'll go back to sleep
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Nov 19, 2019 17:43
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An insane mind posted:If it's just my ignorance speaking here I accept that but if there's a choice between the evil, migrant killer racist party and the evil, wall street enabling bootlickers I'd be tempted to vote for those who won't kill migrants and people of colour... No, this is why I still vote despite being a firm anarchist who believes we can never have true equality as long as a hierarchical form of society exists (in particular, the state). I don’t like the current system and wish to see it dismantled, but it is also the system we are currently stuck inside of, so doing what you can to minimize the harm that capitalism, imperialism, and authoritarianism can do is still valid and still good praxis. You can wage a class war on more than one front at a time; the fascists certainly haven’t been shy about using every avenue of power that they can.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:44
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if there’s one thing the boomers absolutely get it’s this: you don’t gain political power by not voting.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:45
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Freaking Crumbum posted:yes? i mean, we've got human beings in concentration camps on our borders, that seems like it's an imminent threat in real time. i guess i don't know for certain how long anyone is going to live, but it definitely seems like there's a ton of time sensitive problems occurring simultaneously. maybe they aren't? i don't know, i'm trying to make sense of this and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of time left to leisurely turn things around (incrementalism has proven pretty well toothless) That sounds like a pretty good case for not settling for anyone who hasn't unequivocally committed to closing the camps and abolishing ICE! Demonstrating that you'll still vote just the same for any clown who'll keep them open but just, like, gloat about them less or something doesn't sound like a productive plan to save those kids in the near term or keep there from being more kids in the same boat in another four years. A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 18:00 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 17:46
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An insane mind posted:If it's just my ignorance speaking here I accept that but if there's a choice between the evil, migrant killer racist party and the evil, wall street enabling bootlickers I'd be tempted to vote for those who won't kill migrants and people of colour... The Democrats are killing migrants and poc. They're just quieter and politer about it.
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Nov 19, 2019 17:56
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I'll let the other side take the best candidate for the job approach instead. Being a dem I tire of it.
Philthy has issued a correction as of 18:43 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 18:41
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:reminder that research universities are also where nearly all the basic science gets done. basic science research, which is not patentable, is a crucial cornerstone for a huge swath of hugely important industries: think electronics, biomed/pharma, energy, and so on. these private companies develop extremely profitable products that often wouldn't even be conceivable without the robust groundwork of knowledge laid down by academic researchers well before anyone realized something useful might come out of it. then, to salt the wound, said industries heavily promote themselves as engines of innovation enabled by free enterprise and genius inventors inspired by capitalist profit motive. drat ive yet to see these issues summarized so well before
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Nov 19, 2019 18:58
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Dolan Trmpu really delivering for his supporters in Real America https://twitter.com/TimOBrien/status/1196924717883699201 Working hard, thank you!
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Nov 20, 2019 00:01
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I yearn for farmer death
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Nov 20, 2019 00:35
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Philthy posted:I'll let the other side take the best candidate for the job approach instead. Being a dem I tire of it. I am tire of it too I'm all for a full socialists takeover of our health care, education and judicial systems, nationalizing the banks and taxing the hell out of the wealthy. I also think that our country would look a lot different and be far better than it does now if, like I said, McGovern, Kerry, Gore (or even Hillary, Mondale or Dukkakis) had won their respective elections, even if they're not my ideal dream candidates. Gore would have addressed climate change and I highly doubt would have gotten us into Iraq 2. Kerry would have certainly avoided the multitude of stupid mistakes that W made. By any reasonable measure, McGovern was the rational choice over Nixon. In my entire lifetime, the democratic candidate for president has almost always been a better choice than the republican one. The first presidential election I voted in, I voted for Dukkakis because George Bush and his entire family are mean evil monsters. 6 out of the 8 presidential elections I've voted in have had the names "Clinton" or "Bush" on my ballot and that's just loving depressing. But I'm not going to sit out an election, especially as a Florida voter, and watch the Republican party institute a theocratic dictatorship, rob me of my retirement money and deny my son his epilepsy medication because my democratic socialist guy didn't get the nom over some purity test. I never wanted to "choose sides" but here we are and, for now, I'm gonna go with "gently caress Donald Trump and the entire Republican party".
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Nov 20, 2019 02:16
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Freaking Crumbum posted:i know it's not trump people getting their faces eaten by the leopard they voted to live in their house, but i genuinely appreciate some of the ideas people are proposing because of the derail. the idea that voting for the lesser of two evils just ensures that you're only ever going to be given that same option time and again is powerful and, despite feeling very obvious once you hear it, was not previously self-evident to me. Voting at the national level is low-effort harm reduction. It’s worth it to get the democrat elected president vs the republican, but national elections are such a small part of what you can do politically that there’s not much point in fretting about how little Bernie can actually accomplish as president. That game was rigged from the start. I say keep focussed on your local situation and see what community action you can take. If elections are your deal, one thing the right wing got right is that there’s no race too small. Get some reds on your city council.
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Nov 20, 2019 06:02
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I think Trump has proven just how much a President can do with executive orders, which seems to be almost limitless so long as you can frame them being a national emergency. Healthcare, education, gun violence, and racism could all be easily considered national emergencies of the greatest order.
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Nov 20, 2019 07:36
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I basically agree, congress has shown itself to be extremely hesitant to check the power of the Executive branch. The War Powers Act, declarations of emergency, and numerous other powers have been ceded to the presidency by the house and senate. If I thought they had any shame in the first place I would say they should be ashamed, but such is the power of decorum that I am no longer surprised.
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Nov 20, 2019 09:16
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was on my way back from an errand the other night and pulled over to let an ambulance by. lo and behold I see it again pulled in the driveway of a house on my road home. house with a big trump 2020 banner over the front porch railing 
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Nov 20, 2019 16:06
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Kitfox88 posted:was on my way back from an errand the other night and pulled over to let an ambulance by. lo and behold I see it again pulled in the driveway of a house on my road home. house with a big trump 2020 banner over the front porch railing keep going, I'm close
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Nov 20, 2019 16:08
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Kitfox88 posted:was on my way back from an errand the other night and pulled over to let an ambulance by. lo and behold I see it again pulled in the driveway of a house on my road home. house with a big trump 2020 banner over the front porch railing gender reveal party gone wrong?
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Nov 20, 2019 16:26
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Kitfox88 posted:was on my way back from an errand the other night and pulled over to let an ambulance by. lo and behold I see it again pulled in the driveway of a house on my road home. house with a big trump 2020 banner over the front porch railing Was just too excited about infrastructure week
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Nov 20, 2019 16:32
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Kitfox88 posted:was on my way back from an errand the other night and pulled over to let an ambulance by. lo and behold I see it again pulled in the driveway of a house on my road home. house with a big trump 2020 banner over the front porch railing check the newspapers!
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Nov 20, 2019 16:37
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FMguru posted:Dolan Trmpu really delivering for his supporters in Real America Have you seen the DOW?!?! MAGA!
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Nov 20, 2019 17:05
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Asimov posted:I basically agree, congress has shown itself to be extremely hesitant to check the power of the Executive branch. The War Powers Act, declarations of emergency, and numerous other powers have been ceded to the presidency by the house and senate. If I thought they had any shame in the first place I would say they should be ashamed, but such is the power of decorum that I am no longer surprised. That's really the crux of it. The law only matters insomuch as someone is willing to enforce it, and congress has shown itself to be so unwilling to exercise any of its authority, even if explicitly laid out in the Constitution, that getting someone like Bernie in as President really could have a massive effect. Take for instance that President's have been allowed to start and indefinitely fight wars at-will since 1945 despite it being blatantly illegal, and congress won't stop them even when it wants to. What congress could really get up the energy to stop any president from doing almost anything at this point?
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Nov 21, 2019 07:53
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The difference being that when Bernie gets power they'll definitely start exercising their congressional powers to stop him. You think McConnell cares about precedent? You think there will be a single E.O. that won't get slapped down? What you need is a far more left senate and house and I don't see you guys getting that until the Boomers are dead.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:36
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An insane mind posted:The difference being that when Bernie gets power they'll definitely start exercising their congressional powers to stop him. Let them shoot it down. Try telling tens of millions of people who the president told would finally have access to healthcare, college educations, and the basics of life that the president's order isn't valid because of some piece of paper slave owners wrote claiming it was about freedom and liberty. They can take the mask off and go full fash, sure, but gently caress it they're gonna do it anyway. Might as well try to make a fight for once.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:53
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Its Bernie, bitch
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Nov 21, 2019 13:16
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Apparently it's Buttigieg?
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Nov 21, 2019 14:07
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the canadian language has over 50 words for buttgeig
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Nov 21, 2019 14:11
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I just don't get why Buttigieg is front runner. He's basically Biden-lite but worse somehow. I guess at least he didn't molest women.
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Nov 21, 2019 14:12
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An insane mind posted:I just don't get why Buttigieg is front runner. He's basically Biden-lite but worse somehow. I guess at least he didn't molest women. he’s not 870 years old, the youth must love him!
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Nov 21, 2019 14:13
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An insane mind posted:I just don't get why Buttigieg is front runner. He's basically Biden-lite but worse somehow. I guess at least he didn't molest women. trusting polls in 2019. the gall of it
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Nov 21, 2019 14:23
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An insane mind posted:I just don't get why Buttigieg is front runner. He's basically Biden-lite but worse somehow. I guess at least he didn't molest women. Do you really consider anyone that polls 1% a frontrunner?
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Nov 21, 2019 14:23
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Mayo Pete is the ideal young gay troop republican the DNC needs
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Nov 21, 2019 14:26
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BBJoey posted:trusting polls in 2019. the gall of it frodnonnag posted:Do you really consider anyone that polls 1% a frontrunner? Imagine I put that dril tweet in here about removing an excessively dumb post.
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Nov 21, 2019 14:51
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Media likes to sell narratives and the primary is a good time to report "X SURGES at the polls" and if they're the first or even the only one reporting it, it gets clicks that none of their competitors are getting. There's apparently no punishment for being completely wrong in reporting on the primary because
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Nov 21, 2019 15:37
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 12:48 |
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Shipon posted:Let them shoot it down. Try telling tens of millions of people who the president told would finally have access to healthcare, college educations, and the basics of life that the president's order isn't valid because of some piece of paper slave owners wrote claiming it was about freedom and liberty. They can take the mask off and go full fash, sure, but gently caress it they're gonna do it anyway. Might as well try to make a fight for once. This 100%. Let the ugly mask of "Americanism" continue to slip, it will make it easier for people to know who to shoot at.
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Nov 21, 2019 15:38
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