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well why not posted:I’m not saying TLJ / Rose is bad I just find it’s a weird name for SW. I wonder what the origin is. I hope it’s not just a pretty flower for a girl but it probably is! Well, see, when the First Order came to her planet, she didn't surrender. She rose. (  )
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Nov 21, 2019 06:02
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Horizon Burning posted:Euphronius, if I put on a fancy suit and adopt a bad Italian accent when I go out to rob a bank, does this make me a member of the Mafia? There is one important self referential line and like literally tons of other evidence lol Ren literally worships a Sith Lord ??? What the hell hes not Sith ok . Force lighting ? Not Sith, no problem just random powers from no context at all. I’ve never seen a Star Wars movie why would force lighting be contextually meaningful ? Better check wookiepiedia Is Sith-inspired ok for you ? Imagine every time I say Sith i meant Sith-inspired. Is that ok ? Sith-equivalent??
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Nov 21, 2019 06:02
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Snoke is a Sith in the same way that Jakku is Tattooine. 
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Nov 21, 2019 06:04
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euphronius posted:There is one important self referential line and like literally tons of other evidence lol No, no, answer the question. If I put on a fancy suit and adopt a bad Italian accent when I go out to rob a bank, does this make me a member of the Mafia?
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Nov 21, 2019 06:04
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Horizon Burning posted:No, no, answer the question. If I put on a fancy suit and adopt a bad Italian accent when I go out to rob a bank, does this make me a member of the Mafia? I’m talking about Star Wars not your cos play fantasies or whatever Snoke actually has force lightening he’s not faking it Ren actually worships Sith and does evil things he’s not faking it As I said if you think “Sith inspired” is more accurate whatever fine I don’t see the point of even mentioning the difference . They aren’t a cargo cult. Snoke and Ren are functionally indistinguishable from Sith Even if Ren doesn’t say they are Sith; they are still Sith
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Nov 21, 2019 06:07
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euphronius posted:I’m talking about Star Wars not your cos play fantasies or whatever The fact that you don't see the difference between 'is a thing' and 'is like a thing' and 'is inspired by a thing' says it all, really. The fact that Snoke and Ren aren't Sith while being functionally indistinguishable from Sith is one of the biggest problems within the sequel trilogy.
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Nov 21, 2019 06:09
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Horizon Burning posted:The fact that you don't see the difference between 'is a thing' and 'is like a thing' and 'is inspired by a thing' says it all, really. The fact that Snoke and Ren aren't Sith while being functionally indistinguishable from Sith is one of the biggest problems within the sequel trilogy. What is a Sith? (To clarify: movies only : I don’t care about wokkiepida) Edit Wait you admit Ren and Snoke are functionally indistinguishable from Sith why are you bothering me then !!! Jesus Christ !!! euphronius fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 06:11
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euphronius posted:What is a Sith? I provided this answer a few posts back drawing only from the movies. Like, you directly quoted the post even (and ignored it.) I feel like I'm engaging with someone with, like, genuine brain difficulties here or a literal, actual child. What about the fact that Abrams and Serkis also said they're not Sith? And where's that literal quote you said exists? And does putting on a suit and accent make me a member of the Mafia? Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 06:17
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You admit they are functionally equivalent which is enough to support a statement “Ren and Snoke are Sith” based on a functional understanding of identity and being verbs discussed as long ago as Socrates et al like 2300 years ago. Thank you for agreeing with me. I’m glad* we wasted all this time over trivial fights on the definition of being verbs and your adherence to Wiokiepedia when you always agreed just agreed with me * I’m not glad euphronius fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 06:21
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What he's trying to say is that the movies make sense... ...from a stupid point of view
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Nov 21, 2019 06:25
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euphronius posted:You admit they are functionally equivalent which is enough to support a statement “Ren and Snoke are Sith” based on a functional understanding of identity and being verbs discussed as long ago as Socrates et al like 2300 years ago. Okay, but Sith have names/titles that use the word 'Darth' in them and this is core to their philosophy and identity. Snoke and Ren don't have these. This means...? Euphronius, planes and birds both have wings and move through the air. But they are not the same thing. Do you understand this?
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Nov 21, 2019 06:25
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Horizon Burning posted:Okay, but Sith have names/titles that use the word 'Darth' in them and this is core to their philosophy and identity. Snoke and Ren don't have these. This means...? Are you saying they aren’t functionally equivalent now? Please make up your mind Btw birds and planes are not functionally equivalent.
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Nov 21, 2019 06:28
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euphronius posted:Are you saying they aren’t functionally equivalent now? Please make up your mind All sith are darksiders but not all darksiders are sith. See: catholics and Christianity. HTH
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Nov 21, 2019 06:29
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euphronius posted:Are you saying they aren’t functionally equivalent now? Please make up your mind But they both have wings and fly through the sky. They are like a thing, therefore they are the thing. Not only do you not understand my posts, you don't even understand your own arguments (obviously, or you wouldn't make them.) Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius? That is to say the usage of the specific Darth title which has shown up on every single Sith we've seen in the past six films? Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 06:30
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Horizon Burning posted:But they both have wings and fly through the sky. They are like a thing, therefore they are the thing. You are insulting me with puerile garbage That is a side show The fact that they don’t have titles is a red herring because we are talking about functional equivalence. Their titles have nothing to do with their function and are as important in this analysis as the livery on an airplane or plumage on a bird A robin looks different than a golden eagle yet both are birds ??? A b52 looks different than a American Airlines passenger jet yet both are planes ??? How can this be ????? Jfc this is 300bce philosophy my fiend please don’t bore me. you already conceded . You’d be laughed out of Athens euphronius fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 06:37
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euphronius posted:You are insulting me with puerile garbage Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius? Why did a director and actor say they're not Sith? Only a very stupid person would treat a B52 and a passenger jet as the same thing - whether something carries passengers or nuclear ordinance is extremely important. Like, what're you trying to say here? Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 06:38
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Like, your initial point was not that Snoke and Ren were functionally equivalent to Sith but that they were Sith! You even said there was a direct quote in the movie that proved that they were Sith! Not like Sith, not similar to Sith, not functionally equivalent to Sith but literally Sith. Are you having a stroke? Am I having a stroke? Are you trolling the thread because you're upset no one likes the bad movie? What on Jakku is going on? Why are you appealing to Socrates? Why don't you answer direct questions? Are you posting from Classical Athens and require us to send someone back in time to help you? Does the Socratic method reveal a secret understanding of The Last Jedi? Was Socrates a time traveller? Are you Socrates? Is Socrates having a stroke?
Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 06:42
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You are confused over the definition of being verbs. I don’t blame you assuming you are American as American schools are not particularly rigorous when it comes to language . I don’t know what else to say to you. You’ve already admitted ren and Snoke are Sith so there isn’t much more Im interested in I’ve tried to untie your knots and you are almost there but your animosity to me and pride about being wrong are blinding you.
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Nov 21, 2019 06:47
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if kylo isn't a sith then it means he's not lying when he includes the sith as part of the past that needs to be excised and if he's not lying then the whole house of cards reconciling that scene with everything that comes afterwards falls apart
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Nov 21, 2019 06:47
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euphronius posted:You are confused over the definition of being verbs. I don’t blame you assuming you are American as American schools are not particularly rigorous when it comes to language . I don’t know what else to say to you. You’ve already admitted ren and Snoke are Sith so there isn’t much more Im interested in I never admitted they're Sith. In fact... Horizon Burning posted:Snoke and Ren aren't Sith.
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Nov 21, 2019 06:49
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Horizon Burning posted:while being functionally indistinguishable from Sith (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 21, 2019 06:51
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And the problem here is that, like, you genuinely don't understand that just because something has a similar function inside a story doesn't mean it's the same thing. Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius?
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Nov 21, 2019 06:53
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Horizon Burning posted:And the problem here is that, like, you genuinely don't understand that just because something has a similar function inside a story doesn't mean it's the same thing. First, you said “functionally indistinguishable” Not “had a similar function inside a story” However both would support a being-verb /equivalence usage Let me break it down. Consider : 2+2 = 4 “But 2 doesn’t look like 4 how can this be ??” <- this is your “”””argument”””” By the way If you are having a hard time following that analogy the = sign is a being verb
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Nov 21, 2019 06:58
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euphronius posted:First, you said “functionally indistinguishable” Because the function in the story is 'be a bad guy, have a red lightsaber.' That's how they can be "functionally indistinguishable." You understand that in your tortured, weird plane analogy it's like... B-52 is Sith, the passenger jet is 'Whatever Snoke Is', and idea of a plane is dark-side practitioner? Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius?
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Nov 21, 2019 07:02
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fellas ...
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Nov 21, 2019 07:13
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I don't like this bit you're doing. The irony levels are too high
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Nov 21, 2019 07:14
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Imagine four Sith-like lords on the edge of a cliff...
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Nov 21, 2019 07:23
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euphronius posted:First, you said “functionally indistinguishable” “You’re a Sith.” “NO I AM NOT I AM A DARK SIDE USER I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS JOINDER”
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Nov 21, 2019 07:29
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Horizon Burning posted:Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius? Why did a director and actor say they're not Sith? Only a very stupid person would treat a B52 and a passenger jet as the same thing - whether something carries passengers or nuclear ordinance is extremely important. Like, what're you trying to say here? Your posting is so stupid that you have convinced me that Snoke and Kylo are in fact Sith.
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Nov 21, 2019 07:29
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Captain Jesus posted:Your posting is so stupid that you have convinced me that Snoke and Kylo are in fact Sith. It's like Socrates said: turn on your monitor, lest you mistake a pigeon for a B-52.
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Nov 21, 2019 07:32
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disjoe posted:“You’re a Sith.” Only a Sitheran Citizen abides by Grand Admiralty law!!!
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Nov 21, 2019 07:32
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Sith and poo poo are anagrams Jedi and Edji are as well.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:01
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God bless Euthronius. We needed another Jivjov and he is risen! Snoke’s very clearly not a Sith btw.
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Nov 21, 2019 08:06
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Is Sith an ideology? Like there must be thousands of people with the force in the galaxy that belong to neither Jedi or Sith.
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Nov 21, 2019 09:08
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Uncle Wemus posted:Is Sith an ideology? Like there must be thousands of people with the force in the galaxy that belong to neither Jedi or Sith. Pretty much. The same way Luke says that the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi, nor does the dark side of it belong to the Sith. Sith are just a particular sect with a particular set of rules - such as the Rule of Two, where there's a Master and an Apprentice and the duty of the latter is to betray and overthrow the former. A key part seems to be taking on a Darth name and title. I'm not sure there's more than that directly in the films, but it seems like the Sith has a particular wish for revenge against the Jedi Order for some past grievance. I think, when I was still lurking this thread, there was even a poster who made the argument that Palpatine might not be a genuine Sith, just someone using it to provoke the Jedi. Otherwise, the Sith we hear about are... Darth Plagueis, dead. Darth Maul, dead. Darth Tyrannus, dead. Darth Sidious, dead. Darth Vader, recanted and dead. So, when Kylo says 'The Jedi, the Sith, let them both die or whatever' he's not saying that he and Rey are Jedi and Sith, he's referring to the antiquated beliefs they share - the idealized institutions they believe will fix things. Rey thought Luke the great Jedi Master would come back and save the day. Ren thought that the Sith were galactic badasses, not seeming to know that Vader renounced being a Sith. Euphronius is right that Ren worshipped Vader, a Sith Lord - but Sith clearly don't worship other Sith. Ren desperately wanted to be a Sith - hence the mask, the red lightsaber, and so on. But he's not one, hence the worship. As Snoke says, he's just a child in a mask. And speaking of Snoke, the big man himself seems to be imitating Emperor Palpatine more than Darth Sidious. Like, those red guards in RotJ weren't Sith guards - they were just Imperial guards. That is, Republic guards with red armor. Snoke doesn't seem to understand the relationship Vader and Palpatine had. Otherwise, he probably wouldn't be trying to make Ren into a new Vader. If Sith is a religion, then whatever Snoke follows is like some more secular type of dark side belief system. Snoke isn't even trying to restore the Empire, not really. He just seems to want to destroy things - Hosnian Prime, Luke, ephemeral concepts. So, the two of them are just pretenders. There're probably heaps of people who call on the Force without being Jedi, and of those people there would be individuals who fall prey to anger and hate or whatever without being Sith.
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Nov 21, 2019 10:10
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"Ren literally worships a Sith Lord" is great argument for why he is Sith. Just like every christian is a God 
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Nov 21, 2019 10:32
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euphronius posted:It’s literally stated in the movie I'm still waiting for this direct quote!
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Nov 21, 2019 12:09
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Horizon Burning posted:No, no, answer the question. If I put on a fancy suit and adopt a bad Italian accent when I go out to rob a bank, does this make me a member of the Mafia? Yeah they find you at your hideout after and say "You wonna of us now kiddo! Let's a all go anna get some pizza pie!"
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Nov 21, 2019 12:18
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The Chosen One prophecy means that post-Vader the Sith have to call themselves something else.
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Nov 21, 2019 13:03
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YaketySass posted:The Chosen One prophecy means that post-Vader the Sith have to call themselves something else. Don't know how well that works if palpatine lives after falling down to a bottomless pit and exploding inside of death star
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Nov 21, 2019 13:47
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