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skasion posted:If they had, nobody would have given a gently caress about it in the first place. The loose, sprawling, open ended nature of Star Wars is what causes people’s imaginations to latch onto it which no one in charge of star wars seems to understand. instead of expanding the universe and giving people 100 new things to speculate about they take old stuff that used to be ambiguous and give it an explanation. don't show me the Kessle Run! I can imagine something much cooler than your writers, just leave it alone. in fact start putting throw away lines I there that imply a much bigger and more interesting universe. "Remember the droid rebellion back on Yanax 3? We barely got out of that alive!" "Hmm, this life form has a DNA that does not appear to come from this galaxy. How odd" "humans live on every planet in the republic, yet seem to have no homeworld" then just never explain it. let people speculate and imagine and they will love your movies.
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Nov 22, 2019 15:23
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You guys get it. So far The Mandolorian gets it but watch them go off the rails and tie it in with overexplaining and big mythology to the mainline movies.
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Nov 22, 2019 15:32
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The Mandichlorians
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Nov 22, 2019 15:43
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Rutibex posted:then just never explain it. let people speculate and imagine and they will love your movies. The only people who still care about star wars are nerds and nerds don't have imaginations, they only care about compiling hard immutable facts into an encyclopedia of irreverent knowledge that is 100% useless in the real world.
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Nov 22, 2019 15:47
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Maybe it isn't canon any more but in the original Battlefront 2's campaign you played as a division of Clone troops in the Clone Wars, then after Order 66 were transitioned into a Stormtrooper unit. The pre-mission diary entries from your character mentions that as the Empire swells its ranks with more troops that Stormtroopers who are clones are becoming rarer and rarer, until your unit is the only one left that's 100% clones. I always kind of liked this version, like yeah there may very well still be some grizzled veteran clones around in the OT, but they're few and far between with most of the Stormtroopers just being conscripts.
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Nov 22, 2019 15:55
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Sydin posted:Maybe it isn't canon any more but in the original Battlefront 2's campaign you played as a division of Clone troops in the Clone Wars, then after Order 66 were transitioned into a Stormtrooper unit. The pre-mission diary entries from your character mentions that as the Empire swells its ranks with more troops that Stormtroopers who are clones are becoming rarer and rarer, until your unit is the only one left that's 100% clones. i imagine it's a lot easier to conscript people once you already have a big gently caress-off space navy. clones are probably expensive, only good when you need a secret army
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Nov 22, 2019 15:58
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Rutibex posted:i imagine it's a lot easier to conscript people once you already have a big gently caress-off space navy. clones are probably expensive, only good when you need a secret army they built like 10,000 star destroyers in that one shot. I'm telling you Book Prolo can hold that hand canon (no no matter how many jokes he makes) just loving fine to avoid a boarding party
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Nov 22, 2019 16:08
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Yaldabaoth posted:The only people who still care about star wars are nerds and nerds don't have imaginations, they only care about compiling hard immutable facts into an encyclopedia of irreverent knowledge that is 100% useless in the real world. Yeah it's this. Gotta flesh out those Wookiepedia articles 
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Nov 22, 2019 16:21
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There were a lot of dorks who didn't like the astral projection in TFA because it wasn't an ~official force power~ like they need their vague space opera mysticism to be strictly codified like playing a D&D wizard where you can only do what's in the sourcebooks that the Dungeon Master said you could use and are appropriate to your class and level.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:27
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Yaldabaoth posted:The only people who still care about star wars are nerds and nerds don't have imaginations, they only care about compiling hard immutable facts into an encyclopedia of irreverent knowledge that is 100% useless in the real world. Lots of people showed up to see the force awakens, its nerds who are passionate about star wars but it is (or, was) always a mass appeal franchise
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Nov 22, 2019 16:30
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Owlbear Camus posted:There were a lot of dorks who didn't like the astral projection in TFA because it wasn't an ~official force power~ like they need their vague space opera mysticism to be strictly codified like playing a D&D wizard where you can only do what's in the sourcebooks that the Dungeon Master said you could use and are appropriate to your class and level. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter* *except the midichlorians
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Nov 22, 2019 16:41
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Yaldabaoth posted:The only people who still care about star wars are nerds and nerds don't have imaginations, they only care about compiling hard immutable facts into an encyclopedia of irreverent knowledge that is 100% useless in the real world. Odd, Isn't it, that there's a button right under my name that say's "Post History", you degenerate freak? It's almost like you can check that poo poo out and see exactly how much of a loser you are.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:42
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Owlbear Camus posted:There were a lot of dorks who didn't like the astral projection in TFA because it wasn't an ~official force power~ like they need their vague space opera mysticism to be strictly codified like playing a D&D wizard where you can only do what's in the sourcebooks that the Dungeon Master said you could use and are appropriate to your class and level. It's funny because one of the things I really liked about ANH is that you never actually really see the force used in a well defined way. It's a lot of "feeling" this and "feeling" that, Obi-Wan's mind trick is used in different ways - first by using suggestion to get the guards to gently caress off, and then later almost like a throwing voice trick to make some troops on the Death Star leave their posts. It's implied Luke uses the force to guide his killing blow on the DS, but we don't really see it visually beyond the symbolism of him turning off his targeting computer. The force feels very ill-defined in ANH which gives it and the Jedi a certain mysticism that helps you buy that one Imperial Officer throwing out terms like "ancient religion" and "sorcerer's ways" to describe the Jedi and the force. Now the force is just about lifting rocks if you're good and shooting lightning if you're bad.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:42
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Big Beef City posted:Odd, dsyp
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Nov 22, 2019 16:43
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Sydin posted:It's funny because one of the things I really liked about ANH is that you never actually really see the force used in a well defined way. It's a lot of "feeling" this and "feeling" that, Obi-Wan's mind trick is used in different ways - first by using suggestion to get the guards to gently caress off, and then later almost like a throwing voice trick to make some troops on the Death Star leave their posts. It's implied Luke uses the force to guide his killing blow on the DS, but we don't really see it visually beyond the symbolism of him turning off his targeting computer. The force feels very ill-defined in ANH which gives it and the Jedi a certain mysticism that helps you buy that one Imperial Officer throwing out terms like "ancient religion" and "sorcerer's ways" to describe the Jedi and the force. Vader uses telekinesis in ANH
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Nov 22, 2019 16:43
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Rutibex posted:Vader uses telekinesis in ANH It's actually called Force Choke.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:49
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He throws a bunch of poo poo at Luke in bespin too.
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Nov 22, 2019 16:58
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TK-42-1 posted:He throws a bunch of poo poo at Luke in bespin too. That's Empire though, by which point the force is firmly about lifting rocks. The choking is the closest you see to the force being used in a defined, visceral manner in ANH but even then it doesn't come off as a defined force power you can take once you've hit level 5 Sith Lord. Everybody at the table seems confused about it, even Tarkin who is Vader's friend and has presumably worked with him for years, so it feels more like a spur of the moment thing Vader decided to do to dunk on a guy talking poo poo about him rather than "oh that Vader, force choking people again!"
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Nov 22, 2019 17:10
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And if we're just going by the Force as presented in ANH, "he's messing with Moti's mind making him think he's choking" is a perfectly reasonable alternate read of what's going on. The white wizard makes the weak minded believe they heard a noise, the dark wizard makes them believe they're choking so strongly their brain forgets to breathe. Honestly "the Force isn't just about lifting rocks" is a great preemptive burn on the nerds who were like "actually "force flight" isn't a power and if it WAS princess leia would have to be a high level Jedi to cast it." TLJ is kind of a mess for sure but I will go to the mat against dorks who pick apart the wrong poo poo about it and want it to be even worse.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:15
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I just got a suggestion in my youtube feed for a video that's seemingly about explaining how or why Darth Vader at some point went and murdered Watto.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:22
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Yaldabaoth posted:The only people who still care about star wars are nerds and nerds don't have imaginations, they only care about compiling hard immutable facts into an encyclopedia of irreverent knowledge that is 100% useless in the real world. That's not the bulk of people though. This is just what people in The Current Year are using to fill the empty void in their meaning hole, and companies can monetize the hell out of that desire when they're not screwing the pig as hard as Disney is on this one. Like all the people who mercilessly defend the prequels. It usually has next to nothing to do with the films themselves, but a lot to do with the fact that they were young and this was a big cultural thing happening so they could put on the same (metaphorical and literal) mask to blend in with the (metaphorical and literal) crowds and feel like they belonged socially. They'll spend all day talking about how Owlbear Camus posted:And if we're just going by the Force as presented in ANH, "he's messing with Moti's mind making him think he's choking" is a perfectly reasonable It says on page 12 of the Star Wars RPG that this ability constricts the blood vessels and George Lucas approved the holy book. Amen!
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Nov 22, 2019 17:23
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Voting Floater posted:What's the worst change he's made to Empire? There's a dozen different versions of the Emperor scene, but I guess people are broadly OK with that. I loving hate the changes to that scene and it has always blown my mind that people are okay with it. Instead of speaking to a mysterious shadowy perhaps inhuman figure, Vader is now speaking to some guy on a sitcom set. And that doesnt even get into the dialogue changes that were done because they assumed you were watching the movies out of order.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:56
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Thank gently caress there were people insane enough to compile and remaster the footage required to release the despecialized editions. I assume that as part of the sale Disney had to agree not to release the original versions of the OT? This is the only reason I can think of that Disney hasn't just released the "gently caress Lucas" editions to profit hand over fist on nostalgia.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:07
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Sometimes people enjoy technically bad movies and that's OK.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:12
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Sydin posted:I assume that as part of the sale Disney had to agree not to release the original versions of the OT? This is the only reason I can think of that Disney hasn't just released the "gently caress Lucas" editions to profit hand over fist on nostalgia. That's the going speculation. I think the last time they were released was a double-DVD bundle in the early aughts as a cash grab to double dip from people who thought the SE was going to be the only release, and it was a lousy low-quality transfer. ThePopeOfFun posted:Sometimes people enjoy technically bad movies and that's OK. I really hate that our culture is so atomized and alienated that people think their identity is "liking popular films" and view criticism of them as a criticism of their core self. Like, I enjoy the sequel trilogy, but grant that there are both technical and thematically problematic things about it that can be criticized, and will make some of those criticisms myself. There are also some feculantly risible criticisms that amount to "girls in my star war abloohoohoo." I enjoy military shooters on PC but acknowledge they often have tone-deaf nationalism and their professions of being "apolitical" is laughable. Those feminist video game criticism videos that in our insane hellworld radicalized a generation of young men to fascism with the threat of Mom Taking Away Games With Blood In Them started with a nice sober disclaimer that you can like a thing and still subject it to skeptical criticism that of course fell on deaf CHUD ears. People just are really uncomfortable with interrogating their own beliefs and preferences or holding more than one thought at a time. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 18:14
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Gutcruncher posted:I loving hate the changes to that scene and it has always blown my mind that people are okay with it. Instead of speaking to a mysterious shadowy perhaps inhuman figure, Vader is now speaking to some guy on a sitcom set. And that doesnt even get into the dialogue changes that were done because they assumed you were watching the movies out of order. the original Emperor visual was apparently an elderly woman with chimp eyes cut in. and the voice actor was different, which I never realized. https://boards.theforce.net/threads/marjorie-eaton-the-original-emperor.50033425/
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Nov 22, 2019 18:16
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Sydin posted:Thank gently caress there were people insane enough to compile and remaster the footage required to release the despecialized editions.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:19
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Empty Sandwich posted:the original Emperor visual was apparently an elderly woman with chimp eyes cut in. and the voice actor was different, which I never realized. Yep, all of these elements worked together to make a mysterious figure. Instead of a nice even tv sitcom lit human in bad makeup getting a passport photo.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:34
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skasion posted:given that they had accelerated aging (so all the troopers in AOTC and ROTS are like 5-10 years old in actual time) maybe they just up and conveniently died of old age. Star Wars Rebels (which was a delight shut up) had some episodes where they basically meet up with some "retired" clone troopers who became rebel sympathizers, they look like old men and are like "yeah those of us who survived became decrepit and got replaced by lovely conscripts. BTW I'm only 15 it's hosed up". This takes place a little before ANH And clearly Han Solo wasn't a clone when he joined the imperial army
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Nov 22, 2019 20:21
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Han Solo was a stormtrooper?
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Nov 22, 2019 20:23
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QuarkJets posted:And clearly Han Solo wasn't a clone when he joined the imperial army trap sprung or whatever but regular imperial army corps is different from the stormtroopers. even though we see fewer of the former on screen it's sort of like a wermacht/ss type thing. the differents is mostly level of fanatical ideological programming. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 20:24
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My reasoning is that if you're going to have all of your stormtroopers be clones then you'd also have all of your army grunts continue being clones, too, since that was the clone troopers' original job. So since the army grunts are actually just random conscripts then the stormtroopers probably are, too
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Nov 22, 2019 20:28
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Guys, I'm beginning to think these movies weren't all written out completely in 1976 afterall....
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Nov 22, 2019 20:30
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Big Beef City posted:Well, I can imagine being a Storm Trooper and finding out that the literal sole beings (the emperor and vader) you were grown in a vat a few years ago to serve, being snuffed out of existence on the same day, may make you LESS likely to give a poo poo about stopping people from celebrating that poo poo, in a "well poo poo. NOW what" moment. Yeah it's not like any of the movies showed a chain of command or anything lol
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Nov 22, 2019 20:31
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Rutibex posted:Vader uses telekinesis in ANH He Force chokes out a single person and the scene is designed and shot as intensely intimidating, almost horror movie-like mysticism, as opposed to the later prequel nonsense of Midichlorians and recorded Force abilities. Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 20:37
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Vader choking people was horrifying to me when I was an impressionable kid. Great stuff. I also was afraid of the Empire coming to blow up the world out of nowhere, I think it kind of combined with the slew of asteroid/comet apocalypse movies that came out around the same time as the 90s rerelease of the movies when I was a kid.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:40
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If any of the Stormtroopers were clones in the OT, why don't they have badly dubbed New Zealand accents? I think we all know George Lucas's attention to detail is too good to miss such an inconsistency.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:44
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Nothing in the films ever even implied that OT imperial stormtroopers are intended to be clones, and it’s just yet another thing that I don’t understand as having entered into any sort of public consciousness.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:51
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Sydin posted:Thank gently caress there were people insane enough to compile and remaster the footage required to release the despecialized editions. Even better versions than Despecialized exist now, 4k77 (get the DNR version) and 4k83 are the versions to download. Those are scanned versions of the original movie reels. They're still working on Empire, though, so for that one get Despecialized. And yes, thank god for nerds. Lambert fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 20:52
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Gutcruncher posted:Nothing in the films ever even implied that OT imperial stormtroopers are intended to be clones, and it’s just yet another thing that I don’t understand as having entered into any sort of public consciousness. Lots and lots of people who are casual Star Wars fans were young children back in the early 2000s when the prequels came out in theaters/on DVD, many of which had their first experiences with Star Wars with the PT. Keep in mind some dude/lady who was 10 years old when AotC premiered would be 27 today. Yes, it has legitimately been that long. Somehow. Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 22, 2019 21:02
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