RockyB posted:

Another shock ant semitism

Guavanaut posted:

e: Proverbs 3:27 is "Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to act."

biglads posted:

LibDems will be going all 'blood and soil' within a year at their current trajectory.

Guavanaut posted:

coffeetable posted:

it often is though; this is the basic tension between incremental, middle-of-the-road policies that have a high chance of being carried out, and far-left upend-everything policies that have a much lower chance of being carried out. even the labour leadership is aware of this, which is why various open immigration policies acclaimed by the membership have been quietly garrotted and brexit policy is triangulated to poo poo.

the claim after 2015 was that people are more keen on voting for the extreme policies than the triangulated ones, and so you could argue for a stronger position and improve your electoral chances simultaneously. this was somewhat born out in 2017. in 2019 though, it's looking pretty dodgy and if - as ronya says - the 2017 gains aren't defended, there's going to be a reckoning between the revolutionaries and the incrementalists

Necrothatcher posted:

Looks like the bible needs to brush up on its myrmecology.

CGI Stardust posted:

the most extreme policies were open immigration and what, right for tenants to buy? neither were in the manifesto, neither were particularly extreme as these things go cf. the standard revolutionary programme, and they're both viable to a certain extent within capitalism, with sufficient political will / sovereignty, without destroying capitalism. not exactly struggle sessions or landlord classicide, is it

OwlFancier posted:

Eusocial animals aren't a bad ideal, a group of small, individually weak parts which create intelligent structures emergent from their collective behaviour rather than being told what to do by some one controlling mind.

Guavanaut posted:

Yeah but they're not really hierarchical, they just centralize reproduction, which gave Victorian gentleman-scientists who already had really weird ideas about hierarchy even weirder ones.

Purple Prince posted:

* Private Property to be abolished, resisting landlords / capitalists to be reformed where possible or otherwise put before the People's Tribunal for appropriate punishment

CGI Stardust posted:

it's worth pointing out that anyone in the Labour Party right now (myself included) is for practical purposes a reformist pushing for social democracy (regardless of the socialism memes) and we know this _hopefully; preferences for the amount to be reformed / left alone may differ. one problem Labour seems to be having on the ground with reaching undecideds and non-voters (i.e. those who don't think Corbyn is a Communist Marxist Terrorist, who Labour needs to win!) isn't that the policies are extreme, it's that many people seem to think governments cannot accomplish anything - kind of, this seems nice, but could never be done. they're not scared or worried by the result, they just don't think it can happen ("it'd be nice, but...")

the most extreme policies were open immigration and what, right for tenants to buy? neither were in the manifesto, neither were particularly extreme as these things go cf. the standard revolutionary programme, and they're both viable to a certain extent within capitalism, with sufficient political will / sovereignty, without destroying capitalism. not exactly struggle sessions or landlord classicide, is it

Failed Imagineer posted:

https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1198877205310377984?s=19

This is satisfying, but its also peak Worst Person You Know Makes Good Point

tithin posted:

That's twice in one week he's been calling out the establishment

very odd considering piers morgan is a gently caress, but a stopped clock can be right twice a day.

Strom Cuzewon posted:

What pisses me off about the Diane Abbott stuff is how it seems to work despite being so loving transparent.

Remember when Milliband did that interview where he went round and round saying "strikes are wrong at a time when negotiations are ongoing" and he looked like an utter maniac. It's a trick to get your soundbite into an interview no matter how they cut it. I've seen Osborn do the exact same thing, for some reason nobody bats an eyelid at that. David Davis didn't know the minimum wage, nobody cares. Rees-Mogg gave advice that would lead to people burning to death. That tory housing guy had a policy that equated to £500 of funding per house, nobody calls him out for being innumerate. Liz Truss....exists.

Purple Prince posted:

* Abolish the bourgeois monarchist state of the United Kingdom, reform it as the People's Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Braggart posted:

Diane Abbott is one of the strongest people in politics, and I have tremendous respect for her for fighting on in the face of possibly the worst character assassination campaign anyone currently in UK politics has suffered.

Her entire career she has been enduring furious attacks from racists and misogynists, and anyone who is for some reason angry that she has got to the position that she has. And the establishment has completely ignored this or even amplified it, because they consider her a political opponent. Because she's fighting for the powerless.

She's been thrown under the bus by people who should know better, and this tacit approval of vicious, baseless attacks on her has allowed bigots to believe they're free to go wild. And they have been right for a long time.

But they are completely wrong about Diane. She is sharp, kindhearted and far stronger than they will ever be. If she wasn't, then they would've succeeded in breaking her. And the fact that she refuses to break only makes them angrier. I really hope we can change this in the future, and end this campaign to destroy one of the best people in politics. If she is so bad, then why does she have one of the largest personal majorities of any MP, with 75% of votes cast in her constituency in 2017 going to her? Her constituents know her, and they love her.

I'm not sure there's anyone in UK politics who I respect more than Diane Abbott. Solidarity.

Azza Bamboo posted:

Then tell the IoM and Jersey that if they want to join they union they'll have to do so on the same terms as anyone else.

OwlFancier posted:

Frankly I'm not convinced that accelerationism is even a coherent approach at all. Just making things worse and hoping that will make things better requires rather more working than anyone's been able to show me.

Braggart posted:

Diane Abbott is one of the strongest people in politics, and I have tremendous respect for her for fighting on in the face of possibly the worst character assassination campaign anyone currently in UK politics has suffered.

Kassad posted:

Not the United Republics of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?

Red Oktober posted:

And just look at that majority.




Absolute political monster, in the very very best way of using the term.

Bundy posted:

United PEOPLE'S Republics of NEWS

Guavanaut posted:

forkboy84 posted:

I'm massively sceptical of the parliamentary path to socialism. Generally speaking it's a whole lot of failure that ends up concluding that actually lets just stop reforming at some point and then hey presto, you've got Blair & Schröder Third Way neoliberalism. But I also don't really have the stomach to tolerate accelerationism: people would die. So I compromise, try to put my faith in a reformist Labour Party even while being deeply unconvinced that the reformist path to socialism actually exists in any meaningful sense. Because frankly if there's one thing to take away from the post-war consensus period, the middle path reformist took is far too easily reversed to ultra-capitalism.

MikeCrotch posted:

I'm partial to the Jeremy Gilbert theory that the most revolutionary period in recent western history was the 60s-70s aka the height of social democracy, so maybe we need to rebuild that to give people enough free time so they can become revolutionary.

Azza Bamboo posted:

Bundy posted:

United PEOPLE'S Republics of NEWS

Rarity posted:

Under Corbyn we'll all be effortposting once a week so that all can enjoy the merits of our minimal labour