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IIRC HJ barely has dialogue or a personality in the original book; most of what we thought we knew about him was from Hollis Mason, who may have been (as Petey thinks) making poo poo up and injecting his own prejudices and psyche into it, or covering for a former colleague. In the absence of much else, my read on that scene (and what we can confirm about him) is that HJ's #1 thing is the importance of kayfabe; he's pretending to be white, pretending to be straight, pretending not to be a cop as a vigilante or a vigilante as a cop. It's the theme of his life. He goes on to let people think he was a Russian spy, in the decades that followed. His response to Sally is both genuine - he's telling her that the "mask" is what matters, in this case, a facade of strength rather than the vulnerability and pain of being victimized - and also detached and insensitive. The side effect of the mask is that it's dehumanizing and alienating, that it separates you from other people.
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Nov 26, 2019 01:14
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:IIRC HJ barely has dialogue or a personality in the original book; most of what we thought we knew about him was from Hollis Mason, who may have been (as Petey thinks) making poo poo up and injecting his own prejudices and psyche into it, or covering for a former colleague. In the absence of much else, my read on that scene (and what we can confirm about him) is that HJ's #1 thing is the importance of kayfabe; he's pretending to be white, pretending to be straight, pretending not to be a cop as a vigilante or a vigilante as a cop. It's the theme of his life. He goes on to let people think he was a Russian spy, in the decades that followed. Thank you for this good post, No. 1 Apartheid Fan! I'm sorry about your name!
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Nov 26, 2019 01:19
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Thinking about it, my only disappointment with the show is its production design, specifically its groundedness and color palette. I know that its fairly light stylization probably helps it feel relevant and connected to our world in ways, but the palette from the comic is so gorgeous and its clean lines are so bold and stylized. I would've loved if they went a little more in a Legion direction visually, but less, y'know, cheapShageletic posted:well, except for movie time brainwashes Yeah, I mean, that's the part I was mainly referring to. I love the fact that mesmerism is real in this world—the dash of early 20th century spiritualism being true is just so evocative of a bygone world to me. Reading old comics and pulps you really get that sense that the kids reading them believed in all those hypnosis and ESP ads and their world was a little more magical. I mean, yeah, I also love that they're accurately portraying the horrible things that the klan members and other bad actors have done to our country. But I also love the movie time brainwashes. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 01:24
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Is there any reason why episode 4 is unavailable through amazon?
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Nov 26, 2019 01:41
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i flunked out posted:Is there any reason why episode 4 is unavailable through amazon? No idea, but just a reminder you can still watch it through HBO Now by linking your Amazon Channels account to your HBO Now account. That's what I did yesterday when the ep wasn't out yet on Amazon.
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Nov 26, 2019 01:52
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TenementFunster posted:as someone who only saw the last 2 minutes of this episode, i can’t think of anything in Will’s entire origin story and character development that would cause him to be brutal to chief of police in tulsa, oklahoma upon learning he is sympathetic to the ku klux klan. You're extremely clever, but maybe the point I was going for was Will murdering Judd muddies the waters of his cause given he originally never wanted to give into mob justice, almost like he's still doing a bad thing, even if it's to a bad person. It's almost like the episode (of which I obviously didn't watch) depicts that as not a morally correct thing to do. But as someone who never read the comic, maybe there's also moral ambiguity in it as well. Perhaps you can clue me in?
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Nov 26, 2019 01:52
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AccountSupervisor posted:If its heavy handed here than its heavy handed in the graphic novel from the paragraph or two Mason describes the exact same inspiration in the first Under the Hood excerpts. This was heavy handed in a different way... in Under the Hood, Hollis Mason, the character-as-writer, explicitly drew the connection for the audience: "I was attracted to the simple Good vs Evil story of Superman." In Ep 6, it felt more like the show was saying, via flashbacks to episode 1: "Hey! He's just like Superman!!" You may be able to defend it as Will "remembering" his origin, a la the people getting dragged in the street by the police car, but for some reason, it still just slightly irks me in an otherwise excellent hour of TV. DaveKap posted:Did you already forget how annoyed people got (including me!) at LG's flashbacks last episode? It doesn't matter either way as the intent was that he got the idea from the old talkies and not the comic book, but showing him reading Superman more than once is a classic "they think the audience is dumb" move. Separate note: According to Peteypedia, Will was presented with the contents of Nelson Gardner's will, which includes a "trove of Minutemen memorabilia." This would presumably include the racist poster of Dollar Bill that was unveiled in this episode, and which was hanging in the 7th Kavalry hideout in episode 1  edit: He should also be filthy rich off of the Minutemen show Jay-V fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 02:33
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Jay-V posted:edit: He should also be filthy rich off of the Minutemen show i bet in this alternate reality there's a strong and well-enforced public domain
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Nov 26, 2019 02:51
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:The TV series was written with the personality and backstory of the comic made 30 years earlier, though. I think it's both fair and good to scrutinize all of HJ's actions from the source material! True. I guess part of me is like "Eh, maybe not everything matches up with the original version, I'm fine with that." I've never cared all that much about continuity, more about a "Hero with a Thousand Faces"-type "What's this version of the story about?"
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Nov 26, 2019 02:53
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Xanderkish posted:True. I guess part of me is like "Eh, maybe not everything matches up with the original version, I'm fine with that." I've never cared all that much about continuity, more about a "Hero with a Thousand Faces"-type "What's this version of the story about?" yeah it's well within the realm of Alan Moore, whose entire career is about reimagining the origins of already established characters, whether it's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Marvelman, Swamp Thing, or even almost the Watchmen themselves.
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Nov 26, 2019 02:56
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I vastly prefer that over the weird set of comic creators/fans who insist on tying together like 50+ years of stories into a single continuity, which normally just ends with multiple parallel dimensions or some other nonsense. Except for Into The Spider-Verse, which did this but in a way that was very good.
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Nov 26, 2019 02:59
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I mean in this case, it's just 2 stories to tie together. And I feel like this current story is explicitly trying to remain in the same continuity as the original comic, so it isn't unfair at all to use that as a dimension for criticism. As for that one panel, I mean yeah, we may like Will Reeves but why pretend like he must be 10x more progressive than his contemporaries. Although "cover yourself" can have an interesting connotation from him based on this last episode.
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Nov 26, 2019 03:09
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I can't imangine the executor or witnesses to Gardner's will reading that and not thinking, "Okay, so this Reeves guy is definitely Hooded Justice"
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Nov 26, 2019 03:13
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https://www.vox.com/2019/11/25/20981767/watchmen-episode-6-fred-trump-recap Episode 6 was even better than we thought (“Fred” was Fred Trump)
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Nov 26, 2019 04:17
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Yea we covered that
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Nov 26, 2019 04:26
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Servaetes posted:You're extremely clever, but maybe the point I was going for was Will murdering Judd muddies the waters of his cause given he originally never wanted to give into mob justice, almost like he's still doing a bad thing, even if it's to a bad person. It's almost like the episode (of which I obviously didn't watch) depicts that as not a morally correct thing to do. But as someone who never read the comic, maybe there's also moral ambiguity in it as well. Perhaps you can clue me in? TenementFunster fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 05:20
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feedmyleg posted:Thinking about it, my only disappointment with the show is its production design, specifically its groundedness and color palette. I know that its fairly light stylization probably helps it feel relevant and connected to our world in ways, but the palette from the comic is so gorgeous and its clean lines are so bold and stylized. I would've loved if they went a little more in a Legion direction visually, but less, y'know, cheap oh, ok....that's a good point!
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Nov 26, 2019 05:20
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It's crazy that Hooded Justice's story was set in literally my childhood neighborhood. The shop he busted in on, if they did base it on trump, was right up a few blocks from my old house. Also the cemetery they hung him was most definitely Cypress HIlls Cemetery.
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Nov 26, 2019 05:52
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You all are gonna feel stupid when the clock just turns out to be an even more powerful Moloch Sun Ray.
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Nov 26, 2019 06:18
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Mantis42 posted:You all are gonna feel stupid when the clock just turns out to be an even more powerful Moloch Sun Ray.
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Nov 26, 2019 06:41
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The whores and the politicians will look up to the clock and shout "Don't shitpost!" and I'll look down and whisper, "No."
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Nov 26, 2019 07:01
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Man when I try to go to Peteypedia, it just kicks me back to the HBO.ca site. Even when i log in it still won't let me go to it. I bet there is region locks on it for some dumb reason.
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Nov 26, 2019 09:16
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twistedmentat posted:Man when I try to go to Peteypedia, it just kicks me back to the HBO.ca site. Even when i log in it still won't let me go to it. I bet there is region locks on it for some dumb reason.
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Nov 26, 2019 09:31
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Okay, just saw the episode. gently caress! Up to this point, I wasn't sure on this show. I was intrigued, but on the fence. Nah. Nah we're done with that. This show is loving GOOD. THAT WAS SOME loving TELEVISION. The start with her taking all the nostalgia, honestly it felt a little gimmicky so they could do a flash-back along with some dreamy / druggy effects and be all cool and stylistic with it, yeah very nice but it feels gimmicky. But then loving everything about the story, which reveals itself to be the origin story of Hooded Justice, just... drat. I'm blown away. All concerns about the direction this show is going in have been assuaged. Trust in the law. loving yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. E: Episode is kinda mean to people with epilepsy though. I saw that warning in the beginning and was like huh? And then blam, non-stop strobe. Was that really necessary??? Could have just been a flashlight. I get its B&W but still. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 09:34
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Legin Noslen posted:Am I loving crazy or were one of the cops literally jerking off to American Hero Story? Plausible, they definitely jerk off to Punisher in real life.
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Nov 26, 2019 10:05
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graham cracker posted:I love the contrast between Sister Night applying black makeup around her eyes while in costume, while Will was forced to apply white makeup. Yeah the parallel / contrast here was great, jumped out at me
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Nov 26, 2019 10:12
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Zaphod42 posted:Nah. Nah we're done with that. This show is loving GOOD. THAT WAS SOME loving TELEVISION.
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Nov 26, 2019 10:13
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Zaphod42 posted:E: Episode is kinda mean to people with epilepsy though. I saw that warning in the beginning and was like huh? And then blam, non-stop strobe. Was that really necessary??? Could have just been a flashlight. I get its B&W but still. Strobe wasn't obnoxious until it got to Judd, then it was focused on his face far longer than it needed to be. The Pokemon epilepsy episode wasn't as bad as that, was it?
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Nov 26, 2019 11:11
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Zaphod42 posted:Okay, just saw the episode. Should have been a Trigger Warning for the content in addition to the lighting effects.
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Nov 26, 2019 11:32
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You know... the presence of sensitives in this world has never quite added up, especially taking into account Manhattan's superpowered uniqueness. There's been endless debate on the matter, but one theory I've never heard before is: might it be possible that their inclusion is just based on Alan Moore believing in ESP in real life?
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Nov 26, 2019 11:59
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Alan Moore is into psuedospiritual stuff but I get the sense for its for the myth more than literal dyed in the woll belief. He worships a snake god, on the basis of - why not.Hyrax Attack! posted:
I assumed they meant figuratively demoted since its his collar but the other cop takes it like he was bringing him coffee. DC Murderverse posted:i bet in this alternate reality there's a strong and well-enforced public domain I suspect Will is filthy rich though because he hangs out with Triue. massive spider fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 12:29
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feedmyleg posted:You know... the presence of sensitives in this world has never quite added up, especially taking into account Manhattan's superpowered uniqueness. There's been endless debate on the matter, but one theory I've never heard before is: might it be possible that their inclusion is just based on Alan Moore believing in ESP in real life? Absolutely. He believes in a lot of weird poo poo.
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Nov 26, 2019 12:32
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He worships a snake deity for crying out loud. Edit: whoops, missed that it was already said.
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Nov 26, 2019 13:46
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feedmyleg posted:You know... the presence of sensitives in this world has never quite added up, especially taking into account Manhattan's superpowered uniqueness. There's been endless debate on the matter, but one theory I've never heard before is: might it be possible that their inclusion is just based on Alan Moore believing in ESP in real life? To be fair it was written in the mid-80s when we were at the tail end of ESP being in vogue.
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Nov 26, 2019 13:55
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Yeah, I mean I have no doubt that Moore believes in psychic powers. It's just funny and now seems likely to me that he might not have read the room on how widespread the beliefs that he took for granted were.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:02
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He also swears that he met John Constantine in a bar and he disappeared around the corner where it should have been impossible, I just remembered that.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:16
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These last two eps were probably the best of the entire show so far, but overall it's still kinda dumb confused mess. I'm still not getting what everyone sees in it. I've even seen someone here saying it surpassed the original? Seriously? When it pretty much misses the original's point at every turn? This is what passes for great writing to you? I mean, I'll watch it till the end, it's entertaining, pretty and not aggresively bad most of the time, but I don't see anyone caring about it a few months from now.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:22
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massive spider posted:The best part of this is that Alan Moore considers Birth of a Nation as the first "superhero movie". I’ve seen Birth of a Nation and I absolutely see where he’s coming from.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:28
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grate deceiver posted:When it pretty much misses the original's point at every turn? In what regard?
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Nov 26, 2019 14:28
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DivisionPost posted:I’ve seen Birth of a Nation and I absolutely see where he’s coming from.
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Nov 26, 2019 14:30
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