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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHCyDxxXog4
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Nov 26, 2019 22:31
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Username checks out
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Nov 26, 2019 22:32
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Sydin posted:From a technical movie making stand point yeah ST > PT very easily. For me though I ultimately hold the Prequels in higher regard. Part of that is nostalgia no doubt - even when something is garbage nostalgia finds a way - but for me the biggest issue with the sequels is I actively feel like I'm being commercially exploited. Yeah Lucas made loving bank off merch, but that was never his primary goal. R2-D2 and C3-PO weren't designed to be toys: they were designed to be weird future droids to help drive the setting home. The toys came organically after the fact. BB-8 meanwhile is so painfully designed by committee to appeal to as many people as possible so it can be shilled in every possible toy form that it's insulting. There are scenes in both TFA and TLJ where I can close my eyes and picture the meeting where a Disney exec taps the script in front of him and goes "yeah this is fine, but there's not enough in here I'm seeing we could make into toys. How about adding some cute CGI creatures?" Okay but you're hand-waving away the super-overcommercialization of the PT with character designs from the OT. The PT is full of stupid poo poo that existed purely to sell toys, including the entire pod race sequence, everything involving General Grievous, the billion different types of combat droids that show up in just 1 or 2 scenes, and Obi-Wan riding around on a big lizard. You're kidding yourself if you think that a room full of kids waving lightsabers around while wearing Luke Skywalker's helmet from ANH wasn't just a 3 minute toy commercial placed in the middle of the movie. The entire PT was just as much of a cash grab, you just don't remember as much of it because it happened a longer time ago and you're more jaded now than you were then. Jar Jar barely even scratches the surface
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Nov 26, 2019 22:37
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The revisionist history of the prequel trilogy is the weirdest thing to me. I can understand having childhood nostalgia for something, but if you legitimately think the prequels are good cinema and a well crafted story you are either lying or a loving idiot.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:41
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QuarkJets posted:You're kidding yourself if you think that a room full of kids waving lightsabers around while wearing Luke Skywalker's helmet from ANH wasn't just a 3 minute toy commercial placed in the middle of the movie.  I completely forgot about that. Don't they give some kid a speaking line in that scene, too? You'd think Lucas would have learned his lesson about kids in star wars after the debacle that was that kid from Jingle All The Way.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:41
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FogHelmut posted:My 3 year old kid is really into Star Wars right now and I put Episode 1 on for him since I haven't seen it in 20 years and we watched all the other ones a bunch of times, he said JarJar was a dope, asked where Darth Vader was, and got up and wandered off during the extended scenes about tariffs and trade negotiations. I asked him where he was going, he told me it was boring. Now every time he asks to watch Star Wars its followed by "but not the boring one." You probably already know this but your kid owns fyi I like the idea of a 3 year-old being like "Where is Darth Vader, who is this boring idiot" while gesturing toward Anakin giving another whiny monologue.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:42
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Randarkman posted:This is only really true of Phantom Menace. There is almost no style to II and III other than how lazy and dull they are. I loving dare you to sit through them again without access to your phone. And the same really goes for Phantom Menace, as much of an incoherent trainwreck as it is, it is still way too dull to actually be interesting to watch (though it is interesting to talk about). Oh i dont think the prequels are interesting in terms of straight up being entertained by them, they're bad movies. Yes the sequels are more engaging, they're essentially action movies that have learned their trade from the comic book movies/ action movies that have come before them in the last decade. The prequels are definitely plodding and whilst I think TLJ is a train-wreak of a movie and i'd sooner watch Bright than rewatch it again (i tried and as soon as the your momma jokes started flying i couldnt continue) if i was going to just crash on the couch with a film on i'd probably rewatch TFA over the prequels not because i really care about the characters or story whatsoever but because it knows how to move from one scene to the next and keep you engaged. However saying all that if you were to break down each prequel movie into it's parts and compare them to the sequels i'd 100% say that the prequels contain more interesting and memorable scenes, locations, dialogue etc and I disagree that PM is the only one with an interesting style. It's definitely the strongest in PM but there's a lot of stuff in II or III that sticks out. In AOTC you have Kamino, with it's weird rear end aliens and the Obi Wan v Jango Fett scene which I think is great, especially that unique space fight with the shock wave bombs which is stylistic and boombastic as hell, and you have other weird but interesting ideas like the bug planet with it's arena and our heroes fighting monsters like it's straight out of a Ray Harryhausen movie or Count Dooku played by mother loving Christopher Lee and him carrying a curved lightsaber like he's a some sort of swashbuckler Sith and the Geonosis battle is at least more unique than the x wings v tie fighters redux we get in the sequels. There's a lot more interesting ideas in the prequels that sadly are ruined by the fact that Lucas needed an editor and a writer to fix and chop out all of the dull and boring scenes where two characters are walking and talking in front of a green screen. The prequels work better as clips on youtube, where you can grab and rewatch the actual interesting parts of the movie that should have been surrounded by stronger writing and editing. I'd rather watch a youtube clip of the pod-race , or Palpatine going full ham and throwing Windu out of the window than any one scene from the sequels. And because those films actually have those moments that stick out against the grey that's why they're going to last longer than the forgettable sequels which might do everything competently but what they do just isnt unique. Whereas you look at the sequels and they're so clearly written, produced, directed etc by committee, like I dont care how much TLJ tried to subvert the plot when the actual dialogue, action scenes etc are so stale, so clearly not the voice of a singular director or writer that there's nothing unique to cling on to and no singular voice and vision that holds the whole mess together. People can hate on the prequels and they're right to do so: they're bad movies, but at least they feel like one whole complete movie/ trilogy and not a series of disjointed action scenes and witty quips thrown in to appeal to middle america and likely the worldwide (especially chinese) market.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:42
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hard disagree - to the extent that the prequels are "interesting" it's almost entirely because of their relationship to the OT, other star wars media (inc. the Disney sequels), and star wars as a cultural force, nobody gives a gently caress about "interesting ideas" like Christopher Lee having a curved laser sword and being involved in vague pastiches of old films if we're not talking about TFA/TLJ or star wars in general then the prequels are about as relevant/likely to be discussed as something like Southland Tales, and from a film-making perspective the films are only really worth discussing for the bits that don't work, since the prequels are basically a masterclass in poo poo you absolutely shouldn't be doing (and the films' temporal positioning/high budget at the dawn of modern CGI makes them decent case-studies) e: QuarkJets posted:You're kidding yourself if you think that a room full of kids waving lightsabers around while wearing Luke Skywalker's helmet from ANH wasn't just a 3 minute toy commercial placed in the middle of the movie. that's not true, that's impossible LGD fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 22:56
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Sydin posted:The prequels were bad but they were at least doing their own thing and felt like a weird passion project by one guy, whereas the Sequel Trilogy a naked cynical cash in that's afraid to do anything interesting because it might hurt the bottom line. TLJ tried to break out of that box a bit but did a really poo poo job at it. TLJ had exactly one scene that was visually interesting, and like you said that was Holdo's 9/11 scene. Rian is really not a visual director, and it shows. JJ is more of a visual director, but it looks like he's moving into the camp where "good visual" are measured in polygons and shaders. People are not going to fill theatre seats just because there is a shitload of CGI. Those days are gone, and even relatively small indie movies can have top-notch special effects that rival ILM or whoever. What will get people into seats is something that looks interesting enough (story and visuals) that they deem it worthy of whatever your area charges for a ticket. Spraying down the screen with a million CGI ships doesn't interest me. Now Showing me something that is visually stunning, that's how you start to convince me that maybe I should see it on the big screen. Gareth Edwards is a really good example of a visual director, and his use of CGI is much better and much more sparingly used, or at least used in a manner where you don't get "animation bukkake" like JJ is leaning on now. It's sort of funny how JJ has not only aped George's stories, but he's now copying George's "everything is so dense. . . " visual direction which is really bad.  vs. 
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Nov 26, 2019 22:56
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Sydin posted:
Yup! And right after the PT concluded all of the Disneyland parks suddenly had a whole planned-out Jedi Youngling experience where kids make lightsabers and fight darth maul. These scenes were basically directly marketing that experience prior to its official release, that's a way more brazen form of commercialization than anything that Disney has done since the acquisition and Lucas is mostly responsible for it. Just Chamber posted:However saying all that if you were to break down each prequel movie into it's parts and compare them to the sequels i'd 100% say that the prequels contain more interesting and memorable scenes, locations, dialogue etc Interesting in how much of a train wreck those movies are relative to the OT, sure. The PT trilogy is completely bizarre in how bad it is, and that's what makes it interesting. The ST is less interesting from that perspective because it's less bad. It has plenty of interesting and memorable poo poo, you can't tell me that you won't always remember Luke drinking green milk straight out of an alien's tit. Like you say, memorable doesn't mean a movie is good (albeit that scene is good) Christopher Lee was completely wasted in those movies and the fact that he gets executed by whiny poo poo Anakin is a real shame.
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Nov 26, 2019 22:59
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God drat this shot sucks.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:03
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Chomp8645 posted:God drat this shot sucks. It sucks so much
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Nov 26, 2019 23:15
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It's literally the Avengers scene with all the superheroes running at all the bad guys, but space ships.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:17
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I tolerated the 'effectively a remake' poo poo for one movie, and I loved TLJ, but even I'm actually a little pissed off that there's loving speeders in this movie. gently caress you. If there's a 4th death star I'm out.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:19
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The Walrus posted:I tolerated the 'effectively a remake' poo poo for one movie, and I loved TLJ, but even I'm actually a little pissed off that there's loving speeders in this movie. gently caress you. If there's a 4th death star I'm out. There are hundreds of death stars in the film. Every one of Palpy's Star Destroyers is a Death Star, remember?
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Nov 26, 2019 23:24
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Fitzy Fitz posted:It's literally the Avengers scene with all the superheroes running at all the bad guys, but space ships. It looks like ready player one. It's there just so nerds can freeze frame it and identify every ship.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:24
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Chomp8645 posted:There are hundreds of death stars in the film. Every one of Palpy's Star Destroyers is a Death Star, remember? no, I haven't even watched a trailer, I just watched that 30 second speederbike clip. I did the same for TLJ and felt afterwards watching the trailers that I enjoyed it more blind than I would have otherwise. That sounds stupid though, I have no faith in JJ or disney
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Nov 26, 2019 23:30
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The Walrus posted:I tolerated the 'effectively a remake' poo poo for one movie, and I loved TLJ wait what
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Nov 26, 2019 23:37
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The Walrus posted:I tolerated the 'effectively a remake' poo poo for one movie, and I loved TLJ, but even I'm actually a little pissed off that there's loving speeders in this movie. gently caress you. If there's a 4th death star I'm out. Anyone got a link to the previous SW thread? I want to know how far back I called JJ remaking ROTJ.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:43
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LGD posted:hard disagree - to the extent that the prequels are "interesting" it's almost entirely because of their relationship to the OT, other star wars media (inc. the Disney sequels), and star wars as a cultural force, nobody gives a gently caress about "interesting ideas" like Christopher Lee having a curved laser sword and being involved in vague pastiches of old films I'd still argue there's still a lot more interesting things going on in the prequels than the sequels even removed from their relationship to the OT. Of course if you didnt have the OT and the phenomenon that is Star Wars before them the prequels would be but a blip in cinema history, but i think they'd make more of an impact than anything presented in the Disney era. And yes a lot of it would be people looking at them like "this is nuts who thought of this poo poo?" and only really cherished by a small group of sci fi nerds, but that's more than the  that the sequels would produce.QuarkJets posted:Interesting in how much of a train wreck those movies are relative to the OT, sure. The PT trilogy is completely bizarre in how bad it is, and that's what makes it interesting. The ST is less interesting from that perspective because it's less bad. It has plenty of interesting and memorable poo poo, you can't tell me that you won't always remember Luke drinking green milk straight out of an alien's tit. Like you say, memorable doesn't mean a movie is good (albeit that scene is good) See I hate that scene with Luke drinking the milk because it reeks of a writer thinking "Omg wouldnt it be wacky if this wise, stoic jedi master drank some milk straight from the titty" and it almost feels like they're trying to go for a meme or something it's so "random". TLJ has plenty of scenes like that where someone (probably an executive) has clearly gone through the script and added a note stating there "isnt enough laughs, add more laughs" and so you get those ham-fisted moments like the yo momma scene sprinkled throughout the film. Now the prequels had plenty of dumb poo poo like that in them, but they also kinda felt like they belonged in those movies. Jar Jar Binks is an abomination but he's the one who'd drink the titty milk, you wouldn't get Qui Gon getting blue milk all in that goatee. Also yes Lee was totally wasted in those films, which of course helps add to the fascination people have with them. Along with "what the gently caress?" there is a such a "what if" element to the prequels where there is a lot of potential there, where you could see them actually being really interesting/ potentially good movies if Lucas was more a consultant and had taken a back seat like he did for Empire and ROTJ but they'd kept a chunk of his ideas when it came to visual design etc. I mean it's 100% why people wanted an Obi Wan film/ tv series, because his portrayal was the best thing about those movies and highlighted what could have been.
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Nov 26, 2019 23:51
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drinking alien tit milk didn't even stand out as bad. that's just what life on lovely islands is like.
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Nov 27, 2019 00:05
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Doug Chiang is the guy whose visual design really made the prequels feel like they feel, not Lucas. What Lucas contributes, imo, is the really abstruse, up-own-rear end feel of the writing. like Jar Jar saying poo poo like “yousa bombad!!!” all the time like that poo poo should mean something. Or Obi-wan blindsiding Gungan king guy with “you and the Naboo form a symbiotic cycle, you must understand this”, or Qui-gon rambling on about “midi chlorians” or “vergences”, or Anakin bantering about nests of gundarks or grumbling about how the system doesn’t work or losing his poo poo over how he massacred indigenous people, or the idea of killing off Christopher fuckin’ Lee in favor a sideshow villain who is a cowardly coughing dinosaur cyborg in a cloak, or the very notion of making your blockbuster trilogy for 13-year-olds a byzantine saga of political intrigue about how democracy and capitalism combine to form fascism. It’s really unique stuff — unique with good reason, since the result is baffling at least as often as it is intelligent. But guess what, Star Wars was never not stupid: I didn’t start watching these movies because I thought the idea of a big furry man called Chewbacca who flies a space boat and communicates by yelling nonsense was so irreproachably brilliant. It’s interesting and weird and doesn’t care if the result is “no, ha ha. It’s because I’m so in love with you!” that’s what 7 and 8 lack, willingness to put themselves out there. The comedy in these movies rubs people the wrong way because you can just feel the writers rolling their eyes at the very idea of Star Wars, and that’s no way to make movies.
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Nov 27, 2019 00:15
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Fitzy Fitz posted:It's literally the Avengers scene with all the superheroes running at all the bad guys, but space ships. loving Epic!!!!!!!!! 10/10 take that Star bros
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Nov 27, 2019 00:23
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The Protagonist posted:wait what  I grew up absolutely adoring star wars and I couldn't care less about most of the stuff I see people griping about. I was happy to have a unique, daring movie after TFA
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Nov 27, 2019 00:27
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Wow these prequels are so interesting, George Lucas is a genius Just Chamber posted:See I hate that scene with Luke drinking the milk because it reeks of a writer thinking "Omg wouldnt it be wacky if this wise, stoic jedi master drank some milk straight from the titty" and it almost feels like they're trying to go for a meme or something it's so "random". TLJ has plenty of scenes like that where someone (probably an executive) has clearly gone through the script and added a note stating there "isnt enough laughs, add more laughs" and so you get those ham-fisted moments like the yo momma scene sprinkled throughout the film. Now the prequels had plenty of dumb poo poo like that in them, but they also kinda felt like they belonged in those movies. Jar Jar Binks is an abomination but he's the one who'd drink the titty milk, you wouldn't get Qui Gon getting blue milk all in that goatee. Why would you expect Luke to act like Qui Gon, a person who died before Luke was even born? Qui Gon wouldn't be drinking blue milk, but Yoda in Empire sure as gently caress would. Luke is aping his master, a goofy old gently caress who has separated himself from the rest of the galaxy and doesn't have any interest in taking on a pupil. Granted it didn't have to be alien milk, but the choice to have Luke be a goofy old hermit is deliberate. Luke throwing the lightsaber is another scene that people have criticized of being "goofy random" or "out of character" for Luke, but it's exactly the kind of thing that Yoda would have done. The movie even acknowledges all of this by having Yoda appear to Luke and explain how Luke needs to stop acting like him, that Luke's strength was always in how he lived his own life independent of the Jedi teachings, and that trying to be like the Jedi Masters of old (e.g. like him) was an obvious misstep; their way is what led to Vader, and Luke trying to imitate them is what led to Kylo. He needs to let go of all of that old poo poo, burn this motherfucking tree down and let's collect on the insurance payout (pays double for a religious site). The lost potential of the prequels doesn't explain why a bunch of brain damaged people in this thread are calling them good movies. These are missteps that make the movie worse, not better. Yes, that's interesting to talk about, but when people argue that these features actually make the prequel movies good that's when it's time to question whether there's a gas leak in the poster's house
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Nov 27, 2019 00:30
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skasion posted:Doug Chiang is the guy whose visual design really made the prequels feel like they feel, not Lucas. He played a big part (especially for TPM) though I think it's unfair to say that Lucas didnt play a large part in the look and feel of those movies, his hands are all over them for better or for worse (it's for worse). I'd argue that Lucas does have an interesting imagination that needs to be tapped and molded by more competent directors and writers. Disney's been including him a lot more in their latest SW projects and i really would like to see a film done in an Empire style where he sets up the framework and everything else is handled by people who dont throw in a scene about how sand sucks, he especially needs to have zero say in performances and dialogue. Anything to get away from the soulless voids that are JJ Abrams movies.
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Nov 27, 2019 00:32
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Boring movies are bad hth
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Nov 27, 2019 00:32
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skasion posted:Boring movies are bad hth 2k1:SO is good 
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Nov 27, 2019 00:55
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The Protagonist posted:2k1:SO is good I agree
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Nov 27, 2019 01:06
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QuarkJets posted:Wow these prequels are so interesting, George Lucas is a genius Yes but Yoda's behavior was an act, a trick to teach Luke not to judge someone's strength based on their size and behavior (and also to gently caress with the audience as we wouldnt expect this little green gremlin to be a Jedi master). Also likely as a way to protect himself from those still hunting Jedi and to disarm anyone who approached with ill intentions. Yes Yoda is criticizing Luke's behavior but it isnt because he's acting like a wack job but it's that Luke like Yoda separated himself from the rest of the Galaxy because he feels like he failed his pupils and especially Kylo. I didnt really have an issue with the lightsaber toss as a character moment, but more that it was played for laughs when Luke is supposed to be a tortured man who has rejected the Jedi life because it led to his pupils being massacred. Yoda wouldn't have a scene of him sucking on titty milk after we learnt he was a Jedi Master so it makes little sense that Luke decides to do something that wacky when Rey is fully aware who he is from the get go, it isn't like he's trying to trick her, instead it just comes across as he's lost his drat mind. Which ok have Luke actually be crazy/ damaged by his past if you want to play it that way, but by the second half of that movie he's acting like the stoic, calm Jedi Master we expect him to be, hence why I pulled Qui Gon's name out of the air because he begins to resemble an actual Jedi Master like Qui Gon was to Obi Wan. Empire has Yoda behave that way because it actually makes sense, it's a trick and an act to likely keep him safe from those seeking to hurt the Jedi, but also as a way to provide a lesson to Luke in his perception of what a Jedi is. In TLJ Luke seems to act like this because it subverts what we/ Rey expect (a wise Jedi Master), something the film loves to do, but it fails because there is no reason for his behavior, unless the reason is that he's lost his drat mind on that island, but if that's the case that potentially interesting direction is dropped when he easily snaps out of it and decides to be a teacher to Rey. This: skasion posted:The comedy in these movies rubs people the wrong way because you can just feel the writers rolling their eyes at the very idea of Star Wars, and that’s no way to make movies. Kinda sums up why i hate the early Luke scenes in TLJ. Luke is wacky for wackiness's sake in that movie.
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Nov 27, 2019 01:27
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it seems totally incomprehensible that someone could start to go crazy by themselves on a space island for 20 years, and then once they meet someone that reminds them of their past start to recover who they once were, I agree
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Nov 27, 2019 01:40
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The Walrus posted:it seems totally incomprehensible that someone could start to go crazy by themselves on a space island for 20 years, and then once they meet someone that reminds them of their past start to recover who they once were, I agree As i said if that's the direction they were going for that might have been interesting. Instead it's just there to give the audience a laugh. If they wanted him to come across as crazy you could have exhibited that in the dialogue, have him break down when talking to Rey etc. As it stands you literally could have added wacky sound effects behind him tossing the lightsaber or drinking the milk and it would have lined up perfectly just as it fits in perfectly with the your momma jokes which i'm sure you enjoyed. Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 01:52
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It was meant to be humorous, yes, just like yoda's introduction was, as you pointed out. why is this an issue? you say if that was the direction the movie went it would be interesting but that is literally what happens in the movie, a moment of levity does not invalidate that. I literally don't remember a your mom joke in star wars but I only watched TLJ once, on a laser imax screen, and enjoyed the heck out of it. I'll be honest I don't think I've seen a complaint about TLJ that can't be boiled down to 'it is not the movie I wanted'
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Nov 27, 2019 02:01
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It was a poo poo movie. Hamill knew what was up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKlo-plLJZI
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Nov 27, 2019 02:02
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Why do people keep saying “burn it all down” as said by Kylo Ren is the thesis of the Last Jedi and that it’s a good thing, especially when the movie does everything it can to ensure that nothing is getting burned down. All the way to the part where “haha just kidding Rey actually has the Jedi books lol”
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Nov 27, 2019 02:03
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Childhood nostalgia nothing. I was an adult when I saw the prequels. I liked them, and I still like them
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Nov 27, 2019 02:04
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The Protagonist posted:It was a poo poo movie. Hamill knew what was up "this wasn't the movie that I wanted"
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Nov 27, 2019 02:05
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Gutcruncher posted:Why do people keep saying “burn it all down” as said by Kylo Ren is the thesis of the Last Jedi and that it’s a good thing, especially when the movie does everything it can to ensure that nothing is getting burned down. All the way to the part where “haha just kidding Rey actually has the Jedi books lol” "burn it down" and the strict adherence to the jedi order are very clearly juxtaposed and the whole point of the movie is that neither are correct. jeez arguing about star wars is fun, this is bringing me right back you guys edit: "yeah I wanted a good movie lol" I was waiting for that one. good joke. The Walrus fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 02:08
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The Walrus posted:"this wasn't the movie that I wanted" nah, it had bad direction, bad pacing, nonsensical plot beats, poo poo story, characters doing stupid and inexplicable things, yeah it opens with an overwrought your-mama joke, bad and stupid action, it was a garbage movie my man yeah it "wasn't the movie i wanted" because i wanted a movie that wasn't poo poo lol
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Nov 27, 2019 02:08
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The Walrus posted:I literally don't remember a your mom joke in star wars but I only watched TLJ once, on a laser imax screen, and enjoyed the heck out of it. Literally the first scene in the movie lol
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Nov 27, 2019 02:09
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