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Colostomy Bag posted:Cripes, everyone makes me feel old. i watched a vhs recording of it with commercials and everything
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Nov 27, 2019 23:36
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Like Horizon Burning says, TLJ got poo poo on a lot because it's a contradictory mess. Rose stops Finn from sacrificing himself and imparts some dumb soundbite about not fighting those you hate but protecting those you love. 5 minutes earlier Admiral Clinton kamikazes the empire fleet. Yoda says the texts are bullshit and burns down the hut. We then find out Ray stole them. Fin and Rose free the horse slaves, but not the actual child slaves. Holdo tells Poe he should shut up and follow orders, but doesn't tell him she has a plan, she just goes "lol guess we're gonna die!" so he of course plans a mutiny but oops he's a dumbass who should have Just Followed Orders and not questioned Her. It's just a muddled mess that doesn't seem to know what it wants to say. But I partially blame that on TFA. It was so busy resetting everything back to "how things were" with plucky rebel leader Leia and surly smuggler Solo and Good underdogs vs big evil empire that they forgot to actually plan ahead in their trilogy and instead left these lovely mystery boxes to generate hype and fill in the blanks later. Who is the mysterious snoke, who is Maz, and how did she get Lukes lightsaber, what happened at the Academy, what happened to Luke, who are the knights of ren (lol) how did Ben fall to the dark side, who's Reys parents etc etc. The only good thing Rian Jonson did was that he rightly said these mystery boxes are dumb as all gently caress and just tossed them into the bin where they belonged. The biggest crime here (aside from TLJ lol) is that they had fantastic ideas. The knights of Ren sound cool, FN breaking free of his brainwashing sounds interesting, Kylo Ren being the Anti-Anakin, as a dude who's tempted by the light side, these are all potentially cool things that could have been developed that instead went nowhere.
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Nov 27, 2019 23:38
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Pollyanna posted:Okay, I started laughing at the Yoda scene. Everyone built up Like to be, like, some giant huge deal rear end-kicking, sexy-girlfriend having space knight in their minds. The expanded universe books didn't help with that. So when Like was revealed to be a blue-milk chugging hermit who wanted gently caress and all to do with the Resistance or anything going on at the Galaxy at large, people were pissed. Personally I 110% agree with his arc, in the OT he's a whiny teenager who finds out he has magic powers and gets thrown into the middle of intergalactic conflict. He then finds out the terrifying leader of the baddies is his estranged bio-dad and the sexy hologram princess who was flirty and kissy with him is his estranged twin sister. And then, after managing to convert his dad back to the good side and watching him defeat the real big bad, his attempts to make the world a better place by bringing the Jedi back fails miserably because he's still an impulsive teenager at heart. Yeah, I'd gently caress off to a Scottish island too. asecondduck fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 23:42
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cuntman.net posted:i watched a vhs recording of it with commercials and everything i was born too late to see it at the theatre and it was never on tv for some reason, so my only exposure to star wars was a marvel comic some relative bought me randomly that was just the first half of the death star raid
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Nov 27, 2019 23:46
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McCloud posted:what happened at the Academy, In TFA it's implied through Rey's vision, that Kylo Ren was kicked out of the Academy and returned with his red lightsaber, new identity, and Knights of Ren to burn the place down. Now, I guess it's just a weird vision of Kylo Ren killing some nobody. In TLJ, we're told he was a student and Luke contemplating murdering him (to the extent he drew and ignited his saber) is what kicked it all into motion, whereupon Ren killed or converted the other students. In some new comic, apparently the thing with Luke happens and Ren is attacked by Luke's students who attempt to chase him down and murder him. So much for already being corrupted by Snoke, I guess. Only the first one really ties into Kylo's 'Jedi Killer' title. It's not that TFA didn't have ideas, it's that Abrams concealed them in mystery boxes. Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 23:47
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The Paddle Knight spanked Kylo on the butt until he turned evil. The red lightsaber symbolizes his butt.
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Nov 27, 2019 23:50
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All this sounds to me like changing directors hosed things up a lot. The movie is flawed, sure. I'm not arguing against that, and it's clear that when you try to look at it as an overarching story that pieces don't exactly line up. However, I'm not going to let the quality of the New Trilogy's attempt at a story arc ruin each individual piece of it. I don't think the movie is somehow unenjoyable; it's fun to watch, cool poo poo happens, pew pew lasers, hell yeah Luke, etc. It's exactly what a Star Wars movie needs to be: more Star Wars. I never came in with the impression that we're trying to write the most amazing epic, and I don't think that's actually possible anyway. Hell, I liked the movie.  I get that some people can't watch it any more after seeing how it fits into the whole picture, and that's fine. I even agree with them at points. But it doesn't really gently caress me up at all.
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Nov 28, 2019 00:11
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Pollyanna posted:All this sounds to me like changing directors hosed things up a lot. It's good. People just nitpicky as hell.
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Nov 28, 2019 00:20
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Is Old Man Luke the genesis of OK Boomer? Also, I'm a casual SW fan and have little emotional investment in the sanctity of the OT or anything like that and I think for many reasons already stated, that TLJ was just a bad movie. TFA wasn't great or anything, but it was clearly meant to be a set up for a continuation in the sequel. Had SW8 done that satisfactorily, I suspect there'd be slightly more positive sentiment towards TFA. But being that TLJ basically retread a lot of the same beats and dropped the ball on a lot of the built up storylines from TFA, it left both movies in this weird vapid place that's affected a lot of audiences. The widespread mixed reactions are emblematic of their quality. I really don't get why they didn't have a more solid singular vision for how all 3 movies would be structured for a big, satisfying plot. That's the core of the issues.
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Nov 28, 2019 00:25
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As has been said elsewhere, the reason there wasn't planning was that they didn't want to wait for planning to take place. It seemed (and might yet end up proving out) that the opportunity cost of time spent planning, when you could just release movies and make money on the strength of the IP, was too high
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Nov 28, 2019 00:33
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At best you can say that Iger conceding that star wars will slow down in the short term is evidence that there's doubt internally about the wisdom of the "hurry up and poo poo out films" approach. But I think if 9 meets or exceeds expectations things will accelerate again quickly
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Nov 28, 2019 00:41
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Halloween Jack posted:The Paddle Knight spanked Kylo on the butt until he turned evil. The red lightsaber symbolizes his butt. My God...you've cracked the code
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Nov 28, 2019 00:44
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No Mods No Masters posted:It seemed (and might yet end up proving out) that the opportunity cost of time spent planning, when you could just release movies and make money on the strength of the IP, was too high
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Nov 28, 2019 00:52
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Yeah, I get that it’s not exactly the smartest film put to, uh, film. Its flaws are noticeable when viewed in light of the entire new trilogy, but that’s primarily due to its relationships to past films. On its own, it’s perfectly fine, and I think that’s the problem - they were so focused on pumping Star Wars poo poo out that they neglected each film’s role as part of the larger whole, opting to try and build the most hype and bucks full speed ahead. Sucks, but as someone who isn’t really a Star Wars fan (though I love the ships and the in-story tech’s aesthetic), it doesn’t break me up inside. It’s just a little sad.
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Nov 28, 2019 00:54
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Pollyanna posted:The movie is flawed, sure. I'm not arguing against that, and it's clear that when you try to look at it as an overarching story that pieces don't exactly line up. However, I'm not going to let the quality of the New Trilogy's attempt at a story arc ruin each individual piece of it. I don't think the movie is somehow unenjoyable; it's fun to watch, cool poo poo happens, pew pew lasers, hell yeah Luke, etc. It's exactly what a Star Wars movie needs to be: more Star Wars. I never came in with the impression that we're trying to write the most amazing epic, and I don't think that's actually possible anyway. i'm glad the movie met your very low standards
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Nov 28, 2019 00:55
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asecondduck posted:Personally I 110% agree with his arc, in the OT he's a whiny teenager who finds out he has magic powers and gets thrown into the middle of intergalactic conflict. He then finds out the terrifying leader of the baddies is his estranged bio-dad and the sexy hologram princess who was flirty and kissy with him is his estranged twin sister. For pretty much all of the characters in TLJ I saw their arcs as trying to be what they thought they should be, then growing into who they are. Luke tries to be a great leader and when his flaws make that difficult he breaks, eventually sacrificing himself as a distraction by acting like the character everyone thought he would be and facing down the whole First Order with a laser sword. Kylo Ren tries to emulate his idols and is mocked for never measuring up, becoming truly scary only after he abandons the posturing/Palpatine figure and takes control. Rey thinks her role is just summoning the Hero, when that fails she tries to emulate Luke and train to redeem Kylo, and only after that fails does she become a Jedi symbol of hope for the surviving Rebellion (or Resistance or Legitimate Government or whatever those guys are by now) acting to help them instead of "fit the story". Poe wants to be a hotshot pilot and score cocky wins in battles, but Leia is trying to teach him to be a general, see the lives of the people he leads, and win the war. Finn is focused on desperate acts to prove redemption, the movie ends with that done and his attempt to end it with a noble sacrifice thwarted so he's left a bit aimless. I'm almost certainly reading too much into it, but I felt it was a response to everyone in TFA feeling like character retreads. Everyone standing in poses got given a good push so they settled back at the same place but (hopefully) looking more natural. On the other hand, I'm self-aware enough to know that's a major reflection of my own personal demons right now.
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Nov 28, 2019 01:13
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Bruceski posted:For pretty much all of the characters in TLJ I saw their arcs as trying to be what they thought they should be, then growing into who they are. Luke tries to be a great leader and when his flaws make that difficult he breaks, eventually sacrificing himself as a distraction by acting like the character everyone thought he would be and facing down the whole First Order with a laser sword. Kylo Ren tries to emulate his idols and is mocked for never measuring up, becoming truly scary only after he abandons the posturing/Palpatine figure and takes control. Rey thinks her role is just summoning the Hero, when that fails she tries to emulate Luke and train to redeem Kylo, and only after that fails does she become a Jedi symbol of hope for the surviving Rebellion (or Resistance or Legitimate Government or whatever those guys are by now) acting to help them instead of "fit the story". Poe wants to be a hotshot pilot and score cocky wins in battles, but Leia is trying to teach him to be a general, see the lives of the people he leads, and win the war. Finn is focused on desperate acts to prove redemption, the movie ends with that done and his attempt to end it with a noble sacrifice thwarted so he's left a bit aimless. No, I saw that too. I like what they did with the characters and their arcs were convincing and interesting.
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Nov 28, 2019 01:18
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A thing to notice in The Last Jedi is that the First Order is popular. Or, at least, more so than the Resistance. They're not invaders, but are rather a pro-Imperial faction within the Republic. Everybody who cares enough to take up arms against them flies away aboard the Millennium Falcon, and their great hope is that they're keeping their ideals alive, in a more original form unconnected to any concrete political inheritance, to inspire an eventual spontaneous uprising among the next generation. It toys with many provocative ideas, but I haven't felt like it really commits to any of them; and the plot events which frame them are rather convoluted and expressed more through exposition than visuals. I think I'm due for a repeat viewing, however.
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Nov 28, 2019 02:59
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This simultaneously impressed me (for how tragic Anakin’s story is in TPM) and angered me in how poorly it was told). Reading this makes me more sympathetic to Anakin saying “gently caress the jedi” https://twitter.com/faitherinhicks/status/1199381399926534144?s=21 https://twitter.com/faitherinhicks/status/1199381789996748800?s=21 https://twitter.com/faitherinhicks/status/1199382118821855232?s=21 https://twitter.com/faitherinhicks/status/1199382546548584453?s=21
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Nov 28, 2019 03:04
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Jesus, don’t make the same post in both threads it just makes the nightmare even worse. Any comic that highlights the nonsensical refusal to free shmi is good for a laugh with me though. Really on the ball managing how the whole chosen one thing goes there guys
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Nov 28, 2019 03:08
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This kid seems extremely vulnerable and is at risk to falling to darkness. Let's all act like assholes. That'll help.
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Nov 28, 2019 03:37
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Have 50 space dollars to free her, we do not - Yoad, fresh off of a making yabies with yaddle sesh
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Nov 28, 2019 03:40
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It's so simple, the Jedi are Christians. Anakin had infinite collection plate money.
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Nov 28, 2019 03:40
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Correct, the Jedi Order is, institutionally speaking, stupid and evil.
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Nov 28, 2019 03:41
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Bongo Bill posted:Correct, the Jedi Order is, institutionally speaking, stupid and evil.
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Nov 28, 2019 03:50
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"I thought the story was bad until someone explained it to me very simple terms" is a hell of a take.
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Nov 28, 2019 04:12
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I want Star Wars to be a cursed. So, for whatever reason, you simply cannot watch the films anymore. You can read about them, write about them, remember them, but you can't watch them. And although Disney tries to recreate them due to this "unforeseen assault on the M", they aren't the same. The fan boys curse M's name. M! They say, M! You daren't do us anymore dirty. Please reveal where your Vault is. But Disney will reply that they seriously have no clue what happened to the Star Wars films. And the deaging tech worked pretty well on their recreations.
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Nov 28, 2019 04:18
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double post
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Nov 28, 2019 04:22
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The Prequels are the story of how the Jedi failed their Messiah.
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Nov 28, 2019 04:27
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Perhaps it wasn’t done out of malice on the Jedi’s part, but rather palpatine cut the relevant 50 space dollars from the Jedi’s discretionary spending fund in one of his most far-seeing gambits. Never underestimate the power of a sheev line-item budget cut
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Nov 28, 2019 04:39
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People totally unfamiliar with cults, monasteries, religious orders, military orders etc. just no sense of history, or of human culture beyond snide, detached affluent America
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Nov 28, 2019 04:52
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The leader of the Jedi was very insistent that Jedi should shed all their attachments, including to those they love, so there's doctrinal support for their negligence of Shmi in particular. In a broader sense, their understanding of "peace and justice" coincides with the status quo of the Republic, and the Republic doesn't have a problem with slavery on Tatooine, and so the Jedi don't. They were already deep in it by earliest point of the story, taking their orders from the Chancellor, highly adept at talking themselves out of doing anything good, and confident in their support for choosing inaction in the face of evil.
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Nov 28, 2019 04:52
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DeimosRising posted:People totally unfamiliar with cults, monasteries, religious orders, military orders etc. just no sense of history, or of human culture beyond snide, detached affluent America Be nice to george lucas and the cast and crew
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Nov 28, 2019 04:54
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What I’m hearing here is that it’s good that the Jedi fell. But also,No Mods No Masters posted:Jesus, don’t make the same post in both threads it just makes the nightmare even worse. Any comic that highlights the nonsensical refusal to free shmi is good for a laugh with me though. Really on the ball managing how the whole chosen one thing goes there guys This is another example of why I, as an outsider to Star Wars, might see taking it seriously as an overall story as a fool’s game. It’s just so much easier to treat it as a mindless spectacle.
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Nov 28, 2019 05:17
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Pollyanna posted:What I’m hearing here is that it’s good that the Jedi fell. It's bad that they fell; the galactic apocalypse that was the Clone Wars, and the subsequent wars, need never have happened. But that was already inevitable at the beginning of the prequels, because the Jedi and the Republic had already fallen and didn't know it.
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Nov 28, 2019 05:37
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They were plagued by a spectral threat, so to speak...
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Nov 28, 2019 05:40
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There was a problem which they failed to see.
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Nov 28, 2019 05:42
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Bongo Bill posted:The leader of the Jedi was very insistent that Jedi should shed all their attachments, including to those they love, so there's doctrinal support for their negligence of Shmi in particular. In a broader sense, their understanding of "peace and justice" coincides with the status quo of the Republic, and the Republic doesn't have a problem with slavery on Tatooine, and so the Jedi don't. They were already deep in it by earliest point of the story, taking their orders from the Chancellor, highly adept at talking themselves out of doing anything good, and confident in their support for choosing inaction in the face of evil. meanwhile the jedi are deeply attached to their enmity with the sith. it's pretty much the only thing that concerns them.
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Nov 28, 2019 05:45
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theblackw0lf posted:This simultaneously impressed me (for how tragic Anakin’s story is in TPM) and angered me in how poorly it was told). Reading this makes me more sympathetic to Anakin saying “gently caress the jedi” you could have just posted the first tweet
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Nov 28, 2019 05:48
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The Fall of the Shaolin Temple was inevitable, but also a tragedy.
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Nov 28, 2019 05:52
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