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This thread really likes to gloss over automation as non-practical when it has been steadily encroaching on almost every working sector for decades. It doesn’t necessarily replace jobs outright but it does give employers incentive to hire fewer people, or pay them substantially less. Going “lol a robot can’t do MY job  ” seems myopic.
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Nov 28, 2019 21:58
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Going “lol a robot can’t do MY job I'm a scientist- pretty much the epitome of a white collar worker- and at least half of my job these days involves setting up optimization/machine learning algorithms to solve problems for us. About the only thing I'm good for is literature reviews and paper writing. And I'm not convinced a robot couldn't do that better.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:01
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This might be crazy, but what if we didn't link working to surviving??? Then perhaps we could happily automate away the garbage/boring/dangerous/soulcrushing tasks?!?!
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Nov 28, 2019 22:05
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https://twitter.com/bereftofthedial/status/1200143079698845696?s=21
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Nov 28, 2019 22:06
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SKULL.GIF posted:This might be crazy, but what if we didn't link working to surviving??? Then perhaps we could happily automate away the garbage/boring/dangerous/soulcrushing tasks?!?! That's dangerous, revolutionary thinking you got going on there. But yes- 'Machines can do the work, people should think'... Or play I suppose!
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Nov 28, 2019 22:06
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:You going to do another US Pol Thanksgiving AV? That was fun https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3905113 the thanksgiving av/picture/laziness thread come post your food and you might get some different stuff runs until sunday Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Nov 28, 2019 |
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Nov 28, 2019 22:07
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So instead of going to Russia to avenvge his boxing friend rival does Rocky Trump just go on a long rant about how the U.S Media was treating Ivan Drago very unfairly, Apollo had it coming and Ivan Drago is a beautiful big strong Russian man defending himsef from unfair treatment by punching his opponent to death?
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Nov 28, 2019 22:11
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Well Apollo was no angel...Solaris 2.0 posted:This thread really likes to gloss over automation as non-practical when it has been steadily encroaching on almost every working sector for decades. Automation for repetitive or precision tasks is nothing like automation for a naturally chaotic environment. Automation is only as good as how well it can be coded to deal with what it will encounter. An unanticipated event might stop a production line or ruin an experiment, but an unanticipated event on the road can and likely will kill people.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:12
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SKULL.GIF posted:This might be crazy, but what if we didn't link working to surviving??? Then perhaps we could happily automate away the garbage/boring/dangerous/soulcrushing tasks?!?! Too bad. In this machine enabled future the owners of the machines live in total luxury and wealth and everyone else either dies or exists on some form of basic income at the poverty line.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:16
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SKULL.GIF posted:This might be crazy, but what if we didn't link working to surviving??? Then perhaps we could happily automate away the garbage/boring/dangerous/soulcrushing tasks?!?! I mean that would be the ideal scenario but, capitalism.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:17
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Amazon's retail business is never going to make money, becuase the retails sales are not the value that business generates for Amazon. I'm pretty sure they have been assuming any margins they might have had in online retail would eventually be eroded by competitors, from the very beginning. most of amazon's profit is from AWS because it now powers like half the internet. When AWS hiccups, it completely breaks the internet.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:26
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Automation is great but it will probably cause some big problems if it isn’t addressed, as it will lead to a consolidation of power for certain types of companies. Think Amazon with warehouses full of robots and packages delivered by drones or self-driving trucks that fire your package at your front door as they swerve around pedestrians and knock over trash cans. At some point government would have to step in and socialize the benefits of a fully-automated company. Also we would have to invest heavily in retraining workers instead of pandering to coal workers so you can win Ohio and Pennsylvania.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:27
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I didn’t realize Amazon owned so much of the internet’s infrastructure. Enlightening.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:28
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PoizenJam posted:Libertarian shitposting? Did jrodefeld finally register another account after 3 years? He was in the libertarian thread recently, and last I heard he was allowed to hang around only that one thread because he's fun.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:31
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The true end game of capitalism is still unknown. Low/no growth stocks end up trading at 4-5x earnings. The market trades at 20-30x right now. As world population stalls or even shrinks, and billionaires consolidate the world's money, there will be no more growth. Pension funds and 401ks are predicated on perpetual growth of capital at 10% per year. We either end up like the movie Elysium or socialism has to take over
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Nov 28, 2019 22:31
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Taerkar posted:Well Apollo was no angel... Full automation never happens; most automation is just replacing routine tasks or following the directions of one human. ATMs didn’t eliminate all teller positions, because occasionally you need to do something more complex than deposit or withdraw. But getting rid of 95% of transactions because they’re simple and routine also gets you to remove 80% or teller positions. The likely scenario for automated haul trucking isn’t fully automated driving with no human input; it’s one human driving a truck and nine automated cabs following, allowing you to triple delivery sizes.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:45
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Slowpoke! posted:Automation is great but it will probably cause some big problems if it isn’t addressed, as it will lead to a consolidation of power for certain types of companies. Think Amazon with warehouses full of robots and packages delivered by drones or self-driving trucks that fire your package at your front door as they swerve around pedestrians and knock over trash cans. More than that. Heavy automation means that we'll have to change how we think about work. As in there just won't be enough jobs for people and we'll have to be okay with providing them at least a basic existence, if not comfortable. Because if we don't and they hit a critical mass, they'll begin burning poo poo down like the luddites of old, except worse. People will no longer be able to define themselves by their jobs because jobs will become increasingly scarce. Or we'll have to start heavily funding the arts or environmental cleanup or stuff that doesn't immediately produce revenue. Countries with smaller populations will probably fare a lot better when automation hits.Countries with enormous populations become capital P problems. The US is going to be nightmarish when automation carves into say, truck driving. What really scares me though will be nations like India and China when automation smashes into their populace.
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Nov 28, 2019 22:49
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oxsnard posted:We either end up like the movie Elysium or socialism has to take over I’ve got bad news. (Mercs machine-gunning climate refugees outside the walls of a barricaded, private hot air balloon event is kinda the image I have in mind) LeeMajors fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 28, 2019 |
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Nov 28, 2019 22:55
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You are lying to you are self if you did not wish to partake of thanksgiving with President Trump above all other guests available.
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Nov 28, 2019 23:02
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Oh the sweet irony of wearing a maga hat and "stop hate" shirt.
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Nov 28, 2019 23:08
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Duck_King posted:I work in IT, and it's pretty telling how myself and all the people I know who get excited about things like video cards and new USB standards, soundly say "gently caress that" when it comes to things like Alexa and Ring, because we understand the implications. I really, really wish your average person understood the horrible dystopia we're hurtling towards with tech like this. Oh abso-loving-lutely. I work at Amazon itself (somehow our warehouse is the one that...doesn't cause horror stories?  ) and I watch even my co-workers getting worked up over these things. They're all "Yeah but can you turn on the lights or start a playlist of your favorite music with just a voice command?"No but I don't have Amazon snooping on me when I'm not working either and I'm not too lazy to just hit a light switch. I already spend 40+ a week with Peccy staring over my shoulder to make sure I'm not stealing poo poo.
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Nov 28, 2019 23:12
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Alkydere posted:Oh abso-loving-lutely. I work at Amazon itself (somehow our warehouse is the one that...doesn't cause horror stories? You shouldn't work while sleeping
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Nov 28, 2019 23:18
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Ice Phisherman posted:More than that. Heavy automation means that we'll have to change how we think about work. As in there just won't be enough jobs for people and we'll have to be okay with providing them at least a basic existence, if not comfortable. Because if we don't and they hit a critical mass, they'll begin burning poo poo down like the luddites of old, except worse. I mean, talking about “when automation happens” is a bit of a misnomer because we’re already in it in a big way, which is part of why the 2008 recovery was so awful to millennials around jobs. Expect more of than for the next twenty years: each recession is followed by everyone who lost their job remaining out of work. So Generation Z gets economies worse than Millenials, and whatever comes after gets even less employment, and we hear all about how it’s because Millenials (the term all youth will be called, no matter how wrong) are lazy and have stupid degrees. It’s not going to affect India and China much because the lovely wages there make them mostly immune - you don’t pay a million dollars for a new machine when you can get away with employing one thousand people for five hundred bucks a year. By the time they have the revolutions necessary to earn first world wages, the automation problem will either by solved or have broken the first world anyways and the billionaire winners will just break China and India as well.
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Nov 28, 2019 23:20
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Lightning Knight posted:Both my parents were truck drivers and I now work in logistics and I gotta say, to all you budding direct action organizers, activists, and revolutionaries As someone who works in the port of NY/NJ you probably won't see a general strike with truck drivers because the majority of them are immigrants. The trucking companies pay most of their employees by the move, not by the hour, and will just find someone else to work for cheap.
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Nov 28, 2019 23:24
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skeleton warrior posted:I mean, talking about “when automation happens” is a bit of a misnomer because we’re already in it in a big way, which is part of why the 2008 recovery was so awful to millennials around jobs. Expect more of than for the next twenty years: each recession is followed by everyone who lost their job remaining out of work. So Generation Z gets economies worse than Millenials, and whatever comes after gets even less employment, and we hear all about how it’s because Millenials (the term all youth will be called, no matter how wrong) are lazy and have stupid degrees. You're right. It's an ongoing process. Automation is going to take more and more jobs. The shrinking pool of jobs is going to be blamed by right wing reactionaries on immigrants, not automation, which is eliminating most jobs. quote:It’s not going to affect India and China much because the lovely wages there make them mostly immune - you don’t pay a million dollars for a new machine when you can get away with employing one thousand people for five hundred bucks a year. By the time they have the revolutions necessary to earn first world wages, the automation problem will either by solved or have broken the first world anyways and the billionaire winners will just break China and India as well. China has rapidly industrialized and many of their people have become what you may call middle class. It will absolutely hit them. The effect won't be as pronounced at first, but it will hurt and the effect will be magnified due to having a billion more people than the US in population. I'm not as familiar with India, but it's going to hurt them as well. Even if automation doesn't hurt India and China directly, this means that the advantage of the US will be due to automation and they'll be able to drive costs ever downwards. To keep up with US manufacturing power, India and China will drive workers even harder to maintain their competitive edge. That means more misery, more injury and worse conditions in already awful environments. The US as well, but we'll be dealing with automation and unemployment and worse working conditions. There are going to be tons of downstream effects from automation even in countries that aren't dealing with automation. We're in a global economy and economic and social conditions in one economy effect all economies. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Nov 28, 2019 |
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Nov 28, 2019 23:37
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skeleton warrior posted:
No because computers are completely incapable of dealing with circumstances that they aren't programed for. They are also vulnerable to environmental effects that can cause them to just reach a point where they don't know how to react and freeze, I mean you know how the first thing any tech support person asks you is if you turned it off and on again? The reason is that something caused your device to run into one of those (not programmed for circumstances) and it just stopped. Sometimes it's just that a stray bit of cosmic radiation flipped a critical bit from 0 to 1 or vis versa and now your electronic device doesn't know what to do, So we turn it off to clear out the bad data and start it again to load up a new hopefully correct version of the software. No the most likely scenario isn't that a single truck driver will be driving some sort of automated convoy, the most likely scenario is that driver assist systems will handle long halls while the final navigation at point of pick up and delivery will largely be either performed by or closely monitored by the drivers. Which will result in companies pushing to change the rules on hours that drivers can operate and mean that each individual driver will end up doing longer runs and knowing how the bean counting executives think they'll try to dream up some other thing that the drivers can do (take dispatch calls or whatever) while on those long hauls because by god they have to squeeze every possible penny of productivity out of their workers that they can short of immediate death.
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Nov 28, 2019 23:41
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Off topic but is there a dedicated thread somewhere for Americans ranting about awful Thanksgiving family political debates? I want a when thread of people ripping on their awful relatives.
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Nov 29, 2019 00:07
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Phone posting so hopefully these link right. https://twitter.com/skeptical7th/status/1199496861461221376 https://twitter.com/iheartmindy/status/1199758635951218688 https://twitter.com/lawcrimenews/status/1199785048444227585 https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1199804044593811456
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Nov 29, 2019 00:09
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Skex posted:No because computers are completely incapable of dealing with circumstances that they aren't programed for. They are also vulnerable to environmental effects that can cause them to just reach a point where they don't know how to react and freeze, I mean you know how the first thing any tech support person asks you is if you turned it off and on again? The reason is that something caused your device to run into one of those (not programmed for circumstances) and it just stopped. Sometimes it's just that a stray bit of cosmic radiation flipped a critical bit from 0 to 1 or vis versa and now your electronic device doesn't know what to do, So we turn it off to clear out the bad data and start it again to load up a new hopefully correct version of the software. There's also seriously liability when you deal with AI and truckers. Who is at fault when there is a crash, a death, multiple deaths? There's a podcast that's being worked on at the moment called Bellwether, which has a ton of promise. One of their theoretical news stories from the future was how an AI, when it came to a decision where it basically had to kill someone, handed off that decision to the human driver. Well the human driver was texting because the car was supposedly self-driving. And with only a few seconds, the driver couldn't pay attention, assess the situation and make the call not to save someone, but in seconds, choose who dies. It was a way of attempting to hand of legal liability to the driver rather than who made the AI or the car manufacturer or both. That we didn't actually solve the ethics problem, or even address it, but that corps decide to gently caress over the driver to shield themselves from liability. A convoy of trucks controlled by a single driver is basically a rolling major traffic accident waiting to happen. The above could happen to the truck driver. Not only that, but I could see some sort of terrorist attack happening if the trucks aren't airgapped, either individually targeted or massive in scale. Imagine how much damage three big rigs crashing at the same time could do. Now imagine that there is some sort of exploit. You could crash basically all cars in this kind of system. Millions of people on the road who just accelerate until they die because all of the cars are wirelessly networked with poo poo code.
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Nov 29, 2019 00:10
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Skex posted:No the most likely scenario isn't that a single truck driver will be driving some sort of automated convoy This is exactly how it’s already done in mining and industrial applications. Single human operator at a remote control station. Putting the same kind of thing into action on roads isn’t all that challenging.
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Nov 29, 2019 00:13
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Ice Phisherman posted:There's also seriously liability when you deal with AI and truckers. Who is at fault when there is a crash, a death, multiple deaths? I'm already terrified of semi-trucks, I can't wait for the future of constantly worrying if the software on a self-driving truck is going to malfunction and cause it to barrel into me at any moment.
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Nov 29, 2019 00:25
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skeleton warrior posted:Full automation never happens; most automation is just replacing routine tasks or following the directions of one human. ATMs didn’t eliminate all teller positions, because occasionally you need to do something more complex than deposit or withdraw. But getting rid of 95% of transactions because they’re simple and routine also gets you to remove 80% or teller positions. USAA has no tellers. You can actually replace them.
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Nov 29, 2019 00:26
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Lightning Knight posted:Jesus loving Christ you nerds, go enjoy the holiday. I've never been probated yet, lay it on me. Make it weird. (also my family sucks  but my friends are cool)(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 29, 2019 00:26
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PuntCuncher posted:This is exactly how it’s already done in mining and industrial applications. Single human operator at a remote control station. Putting the same kind of thing into action on roads isn’t all that challenging. yeah but in mining and industrial sites they have lanes for the remote controlled trucks to drive around in at 15 miles per hour that nothing else is allowed to go in to, everything is controlled to try and ensure the least amount of variance or unexpected occurrences. If they are anything like the self driving vehicles they were testing up here in Canada, they will stop in place in the snow because the snow messes with the cameras and radar systems they use to navigate. It's one thing to have something like that in a controlled work site which is purpose built for it, it's another thing entirely to put it on the public highway.
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Nov 29, 2019 00:28
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Mischalaniouse posted:I'm already terrified of semi-trucks, I can't wait for the future of constantly worrying if the software on a self-driving truck is going to malfunction and cause it to barrel into me at any moment. Most semi-truck drivers are incredibly skillful. It's all the other drivers who are incompetent fuckers and more likely to ram into you. Note that there's still the issue of trucking companies forcing them to violate their hours limits and drive half-asleep hopped up on amphetamines
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Nov 29, 2019 00:30
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Ice Phisherman posted:There's also seriously liability when you deal with AI and truckers. Who is at fault when there is a crash, a death, multiple deaths? This is only presented as an unanswered question because the people developing the AI don’t like the obvious answer.
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Nov 29, 2019 00:32
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Psikotik posted:As someone who works in the port of NY/NJ you probably won't see a general strike with truck drivers because the majority of them are immigrants. The trucking companies pay most of their employees by the move, not by the hour, and will just find someone else to work for cheap. Drayage is a very different model from over the road. Over the road driving is generally paid by the mile or percentage of trip revenue. Longhaul drivers are already in relatively high demand and are pretty highly paid. I'm not sure I see a world in which OTR drivers get angry enough to general strike, but if they do that's the ballgame.
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Nov 29, 2019 00:33
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Ice Phisherman posted:There's also seriously liability when you deal with AI and truckers. Who is at fault when there is a crash, a death, multiple deaths? Based on the history of such things in this country, the dead people in the non-corporate vehicles
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Nov 29, 2019 00:38
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Nick Fuentes right of center? Uhh...
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Nov 29, 2019 00:44
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happy thanksgiving https://twitter.com/stonecold2050/status/1199835406319046659?s=20
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Nov 29, 2019 00:45
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