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Corbeau posted:A very full day of boardgames today; we played two very close 5-player games of Cthulhu Wars followed by a match of Inis to close out the night. The contrast between the two was striking, despite both being dudes on a map games. Cthulhu Wars is all about channeling the long evolution of board states into just the right place for you, with each action having far-reaching consequences to take into consideration. Inis, in contrast, is very opportunistic; right from the first draft each round feels like a desperate knife fight where any misstep (particularly mis-reading another player's draft) will be rewarded by a sharp implement to the gut. Both are really excellent games yet feel profoundly different to play. Good times! One. God. drat. Point.
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Dec 9, 2019 10:07
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golden bubble posted:
Thanks for your impressions. I like Evolution Climate a lot.
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Dec 9, 2019 13:52
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Llyranor posted:Thanks for your impressions. I like Evolution Climate a lot. I've been a playtester for Oceans and I agree with him. The only caveat I would give is that Climate scales better for 5P-6P in my experience, but Oceans is definitely my preference for 2-4.
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Dec 9, 2019 13:59
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Aramoro posted:Any other game as BSG is absolute trash. I can expand if you like but BSG is not great as an all round experience. Absolute trash is still better than the other hidden traitor games though (excluding the more true semi coops joco archipelago etc).
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Dec 9, 2019 14:12
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silvergoose posted:Absolute trash is still better than the other hidden traitor games though (excluding the more true semi coops joco archipelago etc). The resistance is pretty good.
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Dec 9, 2019 14:56
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Aramoro posted:Any other game as BSG is absolute trash. I can expand if you like but BSG is not great as an all round experience. I definitely want to hear the expanded version now. Our basement reno is almost done, just have to order and build the holy shelves of Kallax (or another type/brand if anyone can recommend something) so I'll finally be able to get back to playing actual games with a footprint larger than a small island counter but I got to play two games recently. First is Tiny Towns and I sincerely believe that this could be a new "take everywhere" type game because of how simple and fun it is. Roll and write the board game is accurate. Karuba meets Welcome To... anyway, fantastic, love it. We played three games back to back, which is always a sign that it's a hit. Second game is an old Feld called Rum and Pirates or something like that. I was real nervous when we were setting it up but it turned out to be a very cute game that like everything else he does, is a point salad. The premise is that each turn every player takes turns moving a pirate captain around a grid of city streets built using a grid of 3x3 tiles. Each tile has different locations and when you move the captain you have to spend pirates to occupy every street space he crosses to get to that location. Once there, you take an action associated with it. The part of the game that's cute is that a lot of these actions involve every player, whether it's inviting everyone to go drinking with you or seeing who gets the hot-potato bad treasure chest. It's not a deep game by any stretch especially with how reliant you are on dice rolls for a lot of points but it played very quickly, there was lots of interaction, and it was fairly simple once you did a couple of turns. Some spaces are obviously better than others though so unsure how balanced it is.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:24
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silvergoose posted:Absolute trash is still better than the other hidden traitor games though (excluding the more true semi coops joco archipelago etc). I think for hidden traitor games keeping it short and sweet is best. The Resistance etc are good games. The Resistance even has the mechanic of BSG without the hours of tedium in between. It also avoids the 'Games all set up, turn 1 we brig the guy who spent too long reading his loyalty card, lol'. Then there's all the expansions, Jesus Christ the expansions.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:28
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I don't like playing BSG with people who meta too hard. Takes all the fun out of it. (Yeah that's because it's not a good game don't @me) When I teach new players the first game is basically a wash. Really tough to teach someone how to be a hidden traitor, and it feels mean to backstab people trying to learn the game from you. My games of it aren't even that long, so maybe I'm not fatigued on it yet.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:39
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I actually don't think of the resistance as hidden traitor so much as hidden team? Like, it's much more akin to werewolf than it is to bsg or dead of winter or shadows over Camelot.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:46
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I've reached a point where I accept that hidden traitor games aren't for me and I seriously teeter on calling the hidden traitor mechanic a bad idea for board games in general. The Resistance is so abstract that any deviation from the established meta instantly ousts you. Games like Werewolf are even more abstract so it needs to include roles that purposefully obfuscate any information you would collect. BSG would be a decent co-op game but all the traitor specific mechanisms are explicitly designed to reduce everyone's action economy so that it stretches a 60 minute game over 3+ hours. I've enjoyed exactly one traitor game, Blood Bound, and that's largely because it's a team based multiplayer game and the "traitor" is really a third party who wins alone if they guess the victor. I really hope instead of forced traitors more designers push the boundaries of co-op games so that in the event of a sinking ship anyone can choose to bail and succeed at the expense of the other players or get punished if the weakened group pulls together. Make traitors more organic.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:49
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FulsomFrank posted:I definitely want to hear the expanded version now. So first up the game is really long for what is it, 2 hours minimum really. Now I like a long game but not when the second issue hits, the board section of the game is essentially a solvable problem, there's a right and a wrong thing to do. So as a human you can be left with huge chunks of the game with nothing to do really because doing anything other than the right answer is stupid. So the traitor can do some stuff here but it's really limited. Now the voting mechanic is quite neat, I like that part, but again with the game being quite long and the fact you know what everyone picked up makes it calculable, which is good or bad depending how you feel about that. That's the actual interesting part of the game, working out the traitor. But then you work it out and they reveal themselves and you drag the game on for another hour, and then roll a dice at the end to see if you win or lose. That's the other big flaw of the game, the randomness, the Crisis Deck and even the Super Crisis's are very hit and miss if they give you anything interesting to think about or not, so even the best play in the world might mean you still lose. Some of the expansions help with this, can't remember which one is the Cylon Chase board was in. Then you have the Cylon Leaders, they just compound the problem of playing a human being boring by being cool and interesting with secret objectives etc. Also the issue of just brigging the person who spent the longest reading their loyalty card. We had to make a rule that everyone reads their loyalty card for the same length of time no matter what it says.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:53
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Lord Of Texas posted:I've been a playtester for Oceans and I agree with him. The only caveat I would give is that Climate scales better for 5P-6P in my experience, but Oceans is definitely my preference for 2-4. Ah, that's a shame. I usually reserve Climate for when we're 5-6p (the simultaneous phase keeps things moving briskly). I have too many games competing at the 4p medium weight space that haven't gotten enough plays yet.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:55
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silvergoose posted:I actually don't think of the resistance as hidden traitor so much as hidden team? Resistance has exactly the same core mechanic as BSG, just simpler. BSG doesn't go from hidden traitor to hidden team after the sleeper phase.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:56
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Corbeau posted:A very full day of boardgames today; we played two very close 5-player games of Cthulhu Wars .... Which gods?
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Dec 9, 2019 16:28
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Played The Estates with 3 friends (first time for all of us) at PAX. By the end of the game, two players had several buildings in one row (which had the mayor on it), and the final turn was for the last roof tile they needed to finish it off. Player A had most of the cash but didn't bet all of it and lost the auction to Player C, thus leaving the row unfinished. Player B went from 60 points to -50 in that one moment, and Player A snagged the victory. B was so angry that he threw his one remaining check at A, hitting him in the gums and drawing blood. 'Tis an excellent game, indeed. Also played Fuju Flush which is a nice little card game by Friedmann Friese. And played the old version of Las Vegas which was good and fun, and apparently better than the more recent version with updated rules. Grabbed Galaxy Trucker and the Big Expansion for $55 from the CGE room, which was a great deal considering that game never goes on sale anywhere.
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Dec 9, 2019 16:45
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Kemet as a hidden traitor game except the traitor wins if everyone gets along
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Dec 9, 2019 16:53
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CommonShore posted:Kemet as a hidden traitor game except the traitor wins if everyone gets along Ah yes, the Hidden Traitor was the friends we lost along the way.
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Dec 9, 2019 16:59
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Aramoro posted:Resistance has exactly the same core mechanic as BSG, just simpler. BSG doesn't go from hidden traitor to hidden team after the sleeper phase. I guess. I think the key to me is ww, the resistance, etc all rely heavily on information as the key currency (some people get real info, others pretend they have it, the main decision points hinge around who to believe) whereas bsg, dead of winter, shadows, they focus on the world is presenting challenges and good guys lose if a metric (food or whatever) runs out, plus there's a traitor. They feel extremely different to me. Also I kinda hate both genres.
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Dec 9, 2019 16:59
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Aramoro posted:Resistance has exactly the same core mechanic as BSG, just simpler. BSG doesn't go from hidden traitor to hidden team after the sleeper phase. It's not exactly the same. The Resistance is about choosing mission teams that will contribute deterministic cards to pass or fail missions. BSG has all players contribute to missions from random resources with different suits, so you're tracking outcomes to guess who has the right card income to afford to spike missions. There's a lack of determinism that makes it easier to hide, and also a larger quantity of missions, so you're trying to identify the trends. Secret Hitler tried to do the random thing, but with teams plus there aren't enough missions it just becomes a random result more often.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:00
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PerniciousKnid posted:It's not exactly the same. The way you work out the traitor is the same as not everyone contributes to every crisis, and you just tell people not to contribute to certain crisis. The resources are not random, you know what everyone has in their hands. When that guy that's only picking up Piloting cards is contributing to your Engineering Crisis then you know what's up. BSG is incredibly deterministic because you know what people have picked up. They tried to 'fix' this by adding the modifying cards in later expansions but that just adds a layer of tedium to the best part of the game.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:04
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Thinking about getting Orléons and the Invasion Expansion. Enough gameplay or do I need the Intrigue Expansion as well?
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Dec 9, 2019 17:04
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The main thing I dislike about BSG which was touched upon a little: There are some things you are allowed to do but there is simply no practical reason to do them, unless you are a Cylon. This effectively makes the action non-existent as no one wants to get accused. The Research Lab springs to mind. Go there and you will rightfully be accused of being the traitor.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:13
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I went to Wehrlegig's panel at PAX Unplugged. Here are some of the points they brought up that I thought would be interesting for the thread: - Cole takes the idea of games as physical objects very seriously. One thing he said that I appreciated was an effort to simplify set-up. The more effort designers and developers take to improve set-up time and ease the better the game play experience ends up being, in my opinion. Cole's philosophy on set-up has influenced the development on Oath (more on that in my next Pax Unplugged post). - One way this impacts his designs is that he believes the physical components of the game should be similar to components the characters in the game would use. Pax Pamir 2E is obviously a great example of this, but it also affected the development of Root and why he enjoys Kyle Ferrin's art. I actually think that approach is a weakness for Root, since although Ferrin's cute art makes the violent nature of the game a little more approachable, it makes the big fights that happen in the game less epic, but that's just my opinion. - That idea also affects how he and his brother are updating John Company. Cole takes the physical size of a game seriously, and he felt that the small box size for John Company undersold the "play size" of the game. He actually had to cut four pages from the rulebook so that the game could weigh less than 1kg. For the new edition, he's looking to have better components, a more detailed rulebook, and a larger box size. - As for rule updates, Wehrlegig's considering adding scenario play and a variant where one player plays the Bank of England. - The Kickstarter will take place in March 2020, just in time to compete with the Frosthaven kickstarter. - Wehrlegig's goal right now is to grow, so they're focusing on reprints and updates for now, but they are beginning research for a Reconstruction game! - Wehrlegig's games will pretty much always be history-focused, while Cole's Leder Games designs will not and instead be more fantastical or abstract. The Wehrle's want strong brand differentiation from their work-for-hire. - Drew Wehrle has been working on some designs.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:20
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SettingSun posted:The main thing I dislike about BSG which was touched upon a little: There are some things you are allowed to do but there is simply no practical reason to do them, unless you are a Cylon. This effectively makes the action non-existent as no one wants to get accused. The Research Lab springs to mind. Go there and you will rightfully be accused of being the traitor. Another part of this issue is the randomness or lack there of for who does what. You're a Cylon Navigator? Get in....Cylon Pilot? Less so.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:21
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al-azad posted:I've reached a point where I accept that hidden traitor games aren't for me and I seriously teeter on calling the hidden traitor mechanic a bad idea for board games in general. The Resistance is so abstract that any deviation from the established meta instantly ousts you. Games like Werewolf are even more abstract so it needs to include roles that purposefully obfuscate any information you would collect. BSG would be a decent co-op game but all the traitor specific mechanisms are explicitly designed to reduce everyone's action economy so that it stretches a 60 minute game over 3+ hours. I think you are way off the mark about Resistance. At least Avalon, which is the version almost everyone plays. There is no single set "meta" in Avalon. Assuming you are playing with the full game: Merlin, Percival, Morgana, Mordred, and the Lady card, there is a logical puzzle at the core of the design that allows the bad guys to make many plausible plays & convincing arguments. How Morgana acts & Percival responds has many different implications for the course and outcome of the game. How Mordred chooses to play as a hidden bad guy does as well. Merlin having knowledge but having to keep themselves secret & Percival's ability to discern who Merlin is and pick up on subtle clues also is an interesting mechanic. I've owned Avalon for about 6-7 years now. I play it both with my board gaming group and with groups of non-gamer friends as well. Both groups have probably 200-300 plays and there has never been "an established meta" that lasts longer than a few games. If a meta develops, than the bad guys can simply use that meta to make credible bluffs. It's sounds like you've realized you just don't like social deduction games, which is fine, but hidden role games are not an inherently bad design for board games. In fact, I'd go as far to say that Avalon is one of the best games ever made.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:21
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Selecta84 posted:Thinking about getting Orléons and the Invasion Expansion. Enough gameplay or do I need the Intrigue Expansion as well? Plenty. But I'd buy Trade & Intrigue before Invasion. Invasion is more a prototype for Orleans Stories. T&I is a huge game changer and a massive improvement to the what was already a solid game.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:22
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pospysyl posted:Pax Pamir 2E is obviously a great example of this Afghan tribesmen couldn't get enough resin blocks and balsa wood discs. And they absolutely MUST have linen finish on their cards.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:27
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Mr. Squishy posted:Afghan tribesmen couldn't get enough resin blocks and balsa wood discs. And they absolutely MUST have linen finish on their cards. Afghanistan is famous for it's resin.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:28
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Aramoro posted:I think for hidden traitor games keeping it short and sweet is best. The Resistance etc are good games. The Resistance even has the mechanic of BSG without the hours of tedium in between. It also avoids the 'Games all set up, turn 1 we brig the guy who spent too long reading his loyalty card, lol'. Then there's all the expansions, Jesus Christ the expansions. First off, the Resistance and BSG are vastly different because in Resistance, the Spies know their teammates from the word go and in BSG you only know your alliance, which can shift later in the game. Second, the issue you mentioned can be avoided simply by...having everyone look at their loyalty for the same amount of time, so that's a weird criticism.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:31
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Mr. Squishy posted:Which gods? First game was WW/YS/CC/BG/Ancients, in which WW beat Ancients by 2 points. Second game was YS/BG/Ancients/Cthuhlu/Sleeper and BG beat YS by a single point. I'm going to be sore about that last game for a while.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:33
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Some Numbers posted:First game was WW/YS/CC/BG/Ancients, in which WW beat Ancients by 2 points. Second game was YS/BG/Ancients/Cthuhlu/Sleeper and BG beat YS by a single point. Desecrate harder, biyotch.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:37
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Some Numbers posted:First off, the Resistance and BSG are vastly different because in Resistance, the Spies know their teammates from the word go and in BSG you only know your alliance, which can shift later in the game. The basic mechanic of finding the traitors is the same in both games. Knowing who is on the traitor team doesn't change that really. Pre and post sleeper phase are essentially 2 different phases of the game where you reset your base assumptions between them. And just hope you don't have players that like to play like Cylons in the first phase just in case they become them later on. The fact your role card has words on it is an actual issue especially for new players, it's really easy to give the game away accidentally. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 17:38
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Mr. Squishy posted:Afghan tribesmen couldn't get enough resin blocks and balsa wood discs. And they absolutely MUST have linen finish on their cards. Afghan tribesman were also known for playing board games about the Anglo Afghan War.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:44
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Where does Cthulhu Wars fit into the broader DOAM genre? I love those games but I've already got a few of them (Inis, Kemet, Cyclades etc.) so I'm always curious what people find especially intriguing about it? The price tag is also really up there, which doesn't make it an impulse buy either.
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Dec 9, 2019 17:56
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Aramoro posted:And just hope you don't have players that like to play like Cylons in the first phase just in case they become them later on. The realisation I eventually came to is that there are actions (such as Research Lab, which was mentioned earlier) which increase your relative strength as an individual, which is beneficial to you whether you get flipped later or not. As a Human (and especially as certain characters such as the Always-Brigged-At-Halftime Boomer) there’s a small element of group interest versus self interest at play, which I think is a more interesting motivator for sketchy Human play than the rules’ own suggestion of, “hey you never know, right??”
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Dec 9, 2019 18:03
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Jedit posted:Plenty. But I'd buy Trade & Intrigue before Invasion. Invasion is more a prototype for Orleans Stories. T&I is a huge game changer and a massive improvement to the what was already a solid game. I want to get Invasion mostly for the solo game. How does Trade & Intrigue work with Invasion? Thinking about getting T&I as well
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Dec 9, 2019 18:05
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Jedit posted:Desecrate harder, biyotch. Hey, I scored 21 points off Elder Signs! I hit 34 or 35 that game.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:05
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Does anyone go to BGG con in November in Texas? PAX Unplugged announced next year’s date will overlap with it and I am curious about the vendor and designer presence there and the general attendance. I think that vendors would pick the bigger con, but I feel designers would rather go to the con directly targeted at people who use BGG. Either way it is not ideal and I hope PAXU reconsiders the date.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:20
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Did he actually say he wants to compete with Frosthaven? Because CMON SON! Also a reconstruction era game I'm hugely hesitant on it. The dude has the chops to pull it off without being too clinical or maudlin but that is territory yet to be really successful.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:52
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al-azad posted:Did he actually say he wants to compete with Frosthaven? Because CMON SON! The game's box is just a carpet bag.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:55
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