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Niwrad posted:Leftovers season 1 was really good and a few bad reviewers were exposed by it. Those same reviewers had to magically backtrack and say they loved seasons 2 and 3 when it was clear the show was terrific. Like I loved season 1 and wasn’t into seasons 2 and 3 myself. You see the opposite sentiment a lot though too where people think season 1 is too sad or something but they really enjoy 2 and 3.
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Dec 9, 2019 23:10
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Raxivace posted:Eh the approach in seasons 2 and 3 is still pretty different. I understand liking seasons more than others. But I can't imagine someone absolutely hating season 1 and then liking season 2 and 3. The changes made weren't dramatic enough to cause that kind of swing.
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Dec 9, 2019 23:13
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Niwrad posted:I understand liking seasons more than others. But I can't imagine someone absolutely hating season 1 and then liking season 2 and 3. The changes made weren't dramatic enough to cause that kind of swing. For sure. I also don't get "obsessed" from that Lindelof quote. He certainly talks about the writing room's reaction to negative reviews but the jump from "he answered a question about negative reviews" to "they are living rent free in his head" seems exaggerated. Likewise, if they are writing stuff that they think will annoy someone who hates their show, that doesn't really translate to "writes for reviewers", unless you think they are...writing for the reviewers to hate it?
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Dec 9, 2019 23:26
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I think it's pretty clear from the show itself the guy loves Watchmen, hates that Snyder's movie is it's modern legacy, and managed to get HBO to throw a few milly at his fanfic/treatment he shopped to DC that they didn't want to actually do in a comic. I'm sure today's writers rooms probably give a poo poo about reviewers more than they used to, because how could they not, but you'd run out of steam for all this stuff real fast if that was actually what you were driven by. Lindelof out of just about anyone has pretty clearly proven he's just a big nerd who loves to write big nerd poo poo. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 23:32
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:I'm half with you. Rorschach the character isn't as personally racist as the 7K, but the ideology he represents (right libertarianism) fosters racism and enables fascism, and is popular among racists who want to attribute whatever successes, comforts, etc they have to their merits as individuals rather than any kind of socioeconomic pattern or institutional structure. He's essentially a useful idiot, an unwitting martyr for a cause he might not personally have joined. The point is that Seventh Kavalries love Rorschachs and Rorschachs create Seventh Kavalries, whether they're in lockstep on every individual issue or not. White supremacists hijack all sorts of poo poo. Odin for one off the top of my head. Rorschach would make perfect sense for them.
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Dec 9, 2019 23:38
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This show has had several times where it felt the writers were speaking directly to the viewers and I thought it was weird. "If you dont like my story, wrote your own"  "Remember in not-Schindler's List how they shot in black and white but used color to draw attention to something? Remember how powerful that technique was??" *uses same technique in very next episode* That lindeloff quote makes a lot of sense
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Dec 9, 2019 23:55
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White supremacist terrorists like the militia movement see themselves as moral exemplars fighting a decadent, unjust system that persecutes them. Their self-image is basically identical to how Rorschach describes himself. There are real similarities between his journal and the turner diaries.
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Dec 9, 2019 23:55
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Eau de MacGowan posted:Remember the first episode, where it seemed it was going to be about a bunch of new interesting characters exploring masks and identity and authority and culpability in 2019, with a few little references here and there to the original comic? I'm interested in seeing what the gently caress this final episode is gonna try to pull off. This thread moves too fast so here's a quick theory I read that I like. Doc Man has been giving folks little bits of himself and spreading his power out over time but the folks don't realize it because it's all been reactionary. 1: Will has it. It's why he can't feel heat. 2: Veidt has it. It's why he invented it 30 years ago... er... it's why he had the horseshoe escape plan ready from year 1. 3: Angela has it. It's why Doc Man insists she has to see him walking on the pool. 4: (Joke option) Laurie has it. It's how she can take all of the Excalibur. With this I'm making 2 bets. 1: Angela reactively blew up the second gunman in her home, that's why we don't see it on screen. (Alternatively, Cal did it and the missing gunman was the clue the 7K needed to know that Doc Man was around somewhere. Or someone just saw it happen.) 2: The pancakes were for Topher, who will get some kinda power to build things. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Dec 10, 2019 |
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Dec 10, 2019 00:04
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Oooh, that's a good read. Angela already has his powers but like when his memory was gone, she doesn't know it so it is as though she doesn't. Calling it now, season finale will end with Angela "dying" only to realize she's manhattan and respawn. Like Jon in the chamber.
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Dec 10, 2019 00:08
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IRL Rorschach would definitely be complaining on Facebook about BLM. But on the other hand he did shoot a cop with a harpoon gun. Land of contrasts.
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Dec 10, 2019 00:09
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Topher got some Dr M dna in him Lol at this show, a family cop drama, finally getting to the point where they can show Dr M Dr Manhattaning when he is floating poo poo around making food like he has the munchies. Also lol at the VFX on his glow skin color Triple lol at the people who lacked such imagination that disagreed with me they Dr M can change his skin tone and glow. Props to the thread for guessing the Viedt stuff. We were in the ballpark. And props to the writers for leaving enough clues around that we could analyze and infer stuff but still enough room to be surprised at specific details
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Dec 10, 2019 00:10
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Sleeveless posted:It's been years since thread titles got weekly updates to lovely dad jokes or impenetrable references to something posted in the thread and this forum is much better off for it. I respectfully disagree. Dad jokes are the only thing keeping me entertained with this series, and I've invested too much time to not see the impenetrable references in the finale.
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Dec 10, 2019 00:14
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Sleeveless is known as a bad poster elsewhere on the forums and that post seals it
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Dec 10, 2019 00:16
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I think it's pretty clear from the show itself the guy loves Watchmen, hates that Snyder's movie is it's modern legacy, and managed to get HBO to throw a few milly at his fanfic/treatment he shopped to DC that they didn't want to actually do in a comic. Yeah, Lindelof loves the book. He was asked to make Watchmen twice previously by HBO and turned it down, because he didn't know how to tell an original story worth telling that would still be true to the book. For the third approach he had been kicking around ideas in our modern climate, had recently read The Case for Reparations and thought he could put together something good.
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Dec 10, 2019 00:41
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I can't believe this episode is going down so badly on here. It was loving brilliant.
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Dec 10, 2019 00:50
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I don't know why anyone would complain, that episode was great. You just have to expect some slower, lore heavy hours in a 16 episode season.
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Dec 10, 2019 00:56
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^^^ hahaha  Tender Bender posted:Yeah, Lindelof loves the book. Like, skimming it or reading the wiki summary or something 
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Dec 10, 2019 00:56
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I thought it was a pretty good one episode intro to Dr. M's whole deal for people who aren't fans of Watchmen, and a decent payoff to having him sort of haunt the fringes of the story but it hit a home run with the scene where he falls in love with Angela. Veidt telling him he's being problematic made me lol. That felt very much like a writer talking to himself even though he's probably built up enough credit to get away with Black Dr. M at this point.
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Dec 10, 2019 00:57
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Necrothatcher posted:I can't believe this episode is going down so badly on here. It was loving brilliant. It's immediately one of my favorite episodes of anything and i opened this thread to discover everyone's mad lmao it owns even more now
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Dec 10, 2019 00:58
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Tender Bender posted:Yeah, Lindelof loves the book. He was asked to make Watchmen twice previously by HBO and turned it down, because he didn't know how to tell an original story worth telling that would still be true to the book. For the third approach he had been kicking around ideas in our modern climate, had recently read The Case for Reparations and thought he could put together something good. I know you're making a joke here and Lindenlof could entirely be lying in his 'open letter' just to cover his own rear end but, for the record, he denied the 2 pitches because the first pitcher didn't understand his Rorschach reference and the second pitcher said "Who's Alan Moore?" Though you're not wrong about his recent reading being the thing that sparked his intent.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:01
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Funny to me that Lindelof would hate Snyder’s interpretation but keep his juvenile fixation on Dr. Manhattan’s penis and its size (which is shared by the fan base I guess).
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Dec 10, 2019 01:04
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I think it's pretty clear from the show itself the guy loves Watchmen, hates that Snyder's movie is it's modern legacy, and managed to get HBO to throw a few milly at his fanfic/treatment he shopped to DC that they didn't want to actually do in a comic. quote:What did you think of the Zack Snyder movie? For all people attribute to Lindelof I feel like when I actually watch him talk and read his interviews he sounds pretty reasonable and respectful.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:06
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I went to video/film school and the entire time there I kept asking "why don't people just take good comics and use them as storyboards and scripts?", I even tried doing it for a short film and then a few years later I saw Watchmen and never said that again. I'm sure Snyder is a big fan who wanted to do that right but.....it's like what Vonnegut was talking about when he said “Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.” You can be as slavish as you want about it but it's just too different. Especially with Watchmen being so specific and experimental with the medium, like the actual physical medium of a comic.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:12
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Intel&Sebastian posted:but it hit a home run with the scene where he falls in love with Angela. Lindelof needs a show that's just about time travel and poo poo. He handles it so well. The Constant is still one of my favorite episodes of TV ever.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:18
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Martman posted:I had no idea how Lindelof felt about the movie but found this interview interesting: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/watchmen-damon-lindelof-interview-896780/ Even the Bible got a sequel. MULTIPLE sequels. This is a really good show that greatly respects the source materials but takes them in a more modern direction. I haven’t seen any of the classic characters behaving “out of character”. I like the new characters, they are really interesting, have depth, and tie in well to the story. Lube Man Forever
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Dec 10, 2019 01:19
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DaveKap posted:https://ew.com/tv/2018/05/22/damon-lindelof-watchmen-letter/ I wasn't joking, just I guess misremembering the HBO podcast? He definitely talked about mulling over how to do the story justice, maybe it was in the context of accepting the third offer.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:20
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I believe that Snyder was a huge fan of the artwork and story of Watchmen, but the man missed the point so badly that he went on to create the antithesis of it in MoS and BvS. The man desperately wants to adapt The Fountainhead for fucks sake.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:20
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KoRMaK posted:Props to the thread for guessing the Viedt stuff. We were in the ballpark. And props to the writers for leaving enough clues around that we could analyze and infer stuff but still enough room to be surprised at specific details The whole "he asked to be taken there" thing was basically told to us when he said "When I first came here I thought it was a paradise" but one gold statue kept us all from realizing the obvious. I love it.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:20
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Can someone explain why Manhattan doesn't save himself at the end? Is it because it happened means it happens? I'm a little lost on that.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:22
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Niwrad posted:Can someone explain why Manhattan doesn't save himself at the end? Is it because it happened means it happens? I'm a little lost on that. He was committing suicide by Kop so that he could give his powers to someone else!
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Dec 10, 2019 01:23
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Niwrad posted:Can someone explain why Manhattan doesn't save himself at the end? Is it because it happened means it happens? I'm a little lost on that. Presumably what happens in the finale is something that he deems to be a good outcome. If not then yeah it's really dumb that he didn't vaporize the truck from the kitchen.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:24
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Niwrad posted:Can someone explain why Manhattan doesn't save himself at the end? Is it because it happened means it happens? I'm a little lost on that. Zaphod42 posted:I see it as partially Manhattan being tired of his existence and wanting to commit suicide, and half him being still discombobulated by just having his memory restored and being in all times at once, and half him just seeing in the future that he was going to get killed by the cannon, so he himself believed in it.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:26
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stev posted:I believe that Snyder was a huge fan of the artwork and story of Watchmen, but the man missed the point so badly that he went on to create the antithesis of it in MoS and BvS. i'm not saying you have to like the movie but if you think that MoS is the antithesis of watchmen you are bad at watching things
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Dec 10, 2019 01:26
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Watchmen the movie, as bad as it is, is immensely better than this show. Also ep 8 was co-written by a former Entertainment weekly guy that Lindelof hired cuz he always wrote Lost theories (that were usually wrong lol).
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Dec 10, 2019 01:29
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this thread.gif
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Dec 10, 2019 01:33
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crazy cloud posted:It's immediately one of my favorite episodes of anything and i opened this thread to discover everyone's mad lmao it owns even more now I loved it too. 
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Dec 10, 2019 01:34
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It was deec, B- / B overall. Definitely not one to get Care Mad over
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Dec 10, 2019 01:36
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DC Murderverse posted:i'm not saying you have to like the movie but if you think that MoS is the antithesis of watchmen you are bad at watching things Sick post/username/avatar combo
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Dec 10, 2019 01:36
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Niwrad posted:Can someone explain why Manhattan doesn't save himself at the end? Is it because it happened means it happens? I'm a little lost on that. Literally the entire episode up to this point is beating you over the head with how Dr M perceives time.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:37
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If he was able to change the future, it wouldn't be the future, so he wouldn't have known it, and couldn't have changed it.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:42
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