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wuggles posted:* throne room fight is a work of art So is Piss Christ but I wouldn't want to watch it for 2.5 hours either!
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Dec 10, 2019 23:04
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If nothing else Adam Driver definitely sells the hell out of Kylo. Finn would have been fine in TLJ even with the casino planet had his character grown or changed at all. Instead he lazily retreads his arc from TFA. Luke being disillusioned with the Jedi could have been interesting but they didn't do anything with it. Luke is just a grump who yells at Rey for two hours, then gets over it offscreen and "redeems" himself by force projecting himself across the universe to spout smug one-liners at his nephew who's life he ruined trying to kill him, and then dying because it's uh, thematic, or something? Seriously Luke being so flippant with Kylo was surreal. You'd think he'd have more to say to the kid whose path to the dark side he helped set in motion trying to loving murder him in cold blood than "Uh sorry I guess, also prepare to get dunked on lol"
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Dec 10, 2019 23:07
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MorgaineDax posted:Sean Bean was a Bee Marine named Stinger who lived in a house covered in honey and had honeycomb eyes. The whole story was like it was being told by a rambling 4 year old and it was great. This sounds like an acid trip of the sort you cant tell if its good or bad.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:10
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Sydin posted:If nothing else Adam Driver definitely sells the hell out of Kylo. he gets over it when he talks to yoda, not offscreen. what one liners are those? when he starts the conversation by saying "I'm sorry ben" even though it's well established that Ben was already turned the night he left? Luke triggered something that would have always happened - Ben and his friends killed who knows how many children in the jedi temple before leaving. then you've got an OT reference with 'strike me down', Luke's behaviour in this scene 100% clearly is him reverting to his teacher persona, so yeah maybe he's a tiny bit glib because that's how he is as a person but also definitely as a teacher. the movie that exists is a totally different one from the one described a lot of the time
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Dec 10, 2019 23:23
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The Walrus posted:what one liners are those? Just pulled the scene up on youtube to make sure I'm not crazy: after apologizing to Kylo he immediately goes into smug dickhead mode with cool guy likes like "Amazing, everything you just said was wrong" and "See you around kid" as his parting words to the guy who's life he ruined. Wow, Luke returning to his original character, what incredible writing! Also  oh I'm sorry right Luke got over decades of trauma because Yoda said five words to him, my bad, sorry for misrepresenting the movie.  e. Also Luke has done nothing to deserve parroting Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was betrayed by Anakin, Kylo was betrayed by Luke. Luke doesnt get to be the wise master chiding a wayward pupil. Sydin fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Dec 10, 2019 |
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Dec 10, 2019 23:29
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wuggles posted:This, but also: While it and the kamikaze run are the only two visually interesting scenes in the entire movie, the throne room fight was one of the most clumsy looking affairs I have ever seen outside of fan films or very, very low budget movies that were released straight to Youtube/Vemo.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:32
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If luke really felt sorry and was over the trauma, presumably he could/would have turned himself over to the space police, pleaded guilty, and done his time in space jail. Instead he was a sovcit who decided he should get to serve as his own judge, jury, and executioner
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Dec 10, 2019 23:32
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Ruby Ridge but it's Luke Skywalker holding up in the cabin.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:35
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Several armed Jedi seize control of a Republic bird and wildlife refuge.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:36
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I don’t see how Luke agreeing to help the resistance invalidates his statements about the Jedi e: It’s kind of dumb how the resistance is treated as a rag-tag bunch of misfits when they started a new republic???
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Dec 10, 2019 23:45
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wuggles posted:I don’t see how Luke agreeing to help the resistance invalidates his statements about the Jedi Nice reading comprehension. wuggles posted:e: It’s kind of dumb how the resistance is treated as a rag-tag bunch of misfits when they started a new republic??? Nice movie comprehension.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:55
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The resistance didn’t start a republic and it’s not the same as the rebel alliance from the original movies. After the rebels won in 6, they established a republic, but didn’t finish exterminating the imperial military. Some elements of this regrouped as the First Order and began to move against the republic, but the republic, for reasons not given, ignored this. The most radical republican leader, Leia, therefore set up her own private army, the resistance. It failed to stop the First Order who destroyed the republican leadership and, apparently with the connivance of financial interests, took over the galaxy. This is all conveyed really ineptly or cut from the actual movies, but it’s what’s going on.
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Dec 10, 2019 23:59
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skasion posted:The most radical republican leader, Leia, therefore set up her own private army, the resistance. PMCs in Star Wars would be cool.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:00
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Cat Army
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Luke retires to his remote island mountain home so he can finally complete the Space-Turner Diaries.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:02
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dudeness posted:PMCs in Star Wars would be cool. The droid army in the prequels is essentially a PMC. You could argue that the clone army is too, tbh, only it has a veneer of legitimacy from having been made the Grand Army of the Republic after the fact.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:03
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Sydin posted:Just pulled the scene up on youtube to make sure I'm not crazy: after apologizing to Kylo he immediately goes into smug dickhead mode with cool guy likes like "Amazing, everything you just said was wrong" and "See you around kid" as his parting words to the guy who's life he ruined. Wow, Luke returning to his original character, what incredible writing! I mean you're still misrepresenting the movie. Luke had one moment of weakness that he didn't act on. "amazing, everything you said was wrong" was a callback, luke teaching, and also the leadin to the entire premise of the movie "The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi". like kylo ren is the bad guy and luke is the good guy and this is star wars wtf are you looking for here. it's not like he's spouting deadpool lines like you're suggesting. and what makes you think luke got over decades of trauma? all he did was decide that (whether he's right or not) kylo was his responsibility to deal with and he couldn't run from him. ' you don't think obi wan let down anakin just as much as luke let down kylo?? ok man. only difference is luke thought about doing what obi wan should have done.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:03
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The whole "Luke had one moment of weakness he didn't act on" thing relies on trusting luke's "real" account, which seems suspect at best considering his prior lies about it and his subsequent seemingly insane actions. I'm not going to dance around it here, let's just face it that he was sickened by his own desire, with the only question being whether before the act or after. This puts kylo's subsequent actions (escape at all costs) and luke's subsequent gross dunks in the proper light
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Dec 11, 2019 00:09
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'escape at all costs' didn't he raze the temple and kill everyone in it? genuine question as I'm by no means an expert.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:10
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Unless you want to appeal to the comic books and novels (let's not) I would charitably say the movie leaves it pretty much open between kylo killing people while escaping and luke's acolytes trying to kill him for seemingly trying to kill luke
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Dec 11, 2019 00:13
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And this discussion is why the Luke/Kylo story fails to land despite the actors' best efforts at selling it. Show poo poo happening on the screen fuckers
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Dec 11, 2019 00:14
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The Walrus posted:'escape at all costs' didn't he raze the temple and kill everyone in it? genuine question as I'm by no means an expert. lol, now I'm imagining Kylo just methodically destroying the temple while pulling a South Park style "COMING RIGHT FOR US" No Luke, don't kill me! *Stabs a sleeping trainee* Luke please, what's wrong! *knocks out a support column of the temple* Gotta run, gotta get outta here! *sets fire to tapestry* Why Luke, WHY *force pushes milk walrus off cliff*
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Dec 11, 2019 00:18
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:And this discussion is why the Luke/Kylo story fails to land despite the actors' best efforts at selling it. Show poo poo happening on the screen fuckers Yeah, this is some beginner writing poo poo right here. Show don't tell...
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Dec 11, 2019 00:19
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The Walrus posted:'escape at all costs' didn't he raze the temple and kill everyone in it? genuine question as I'm by no means an expert. Good question! Luke says that “the temple was burning, he had vanished with a handful of my students and slaughtered the rest.” You would think that what precisely this means and how we are to interpret it is pretty loving important, but the movies don’t agree.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:20
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The Walrus posted:you don't think obi wan let down anakin just as much as luke let down kylo?? ok man. only difference is luke thought about doing what obi wan should have done. Ah yes Obi-Wan should have prevented Anakin's fall by... uh, I guess recognizing he was into Natalie Portman and tell him to keep it in his pants? Or are you arguing he should have just murdered child Anakin from the start?  Like don't get me wrong Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship as portrayed in the prequels is dogshit, but even there Obi-Wan is a better teacher to Anakin than Luke is shown to be to Kylo. Also no "See you around kid" is not Deadpool but it's still a smug one liner that feels out of place.Luke sucks in the TLJ and it has nothing to do with him being an a disillusioned old hermit, they could have made that work if they'd bothered to try. It's because they do nothing with that premise for 98% of the movie and then when they finally decide to have him do something it's a lazy retread of Obi-Wan vs Vader from ANH so fans can wank over how it's like poetry, it rhymes.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:20
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The throne room fight is wet garbo once you look at any of the individual fights taking place. It's game of thrones sand snakes bad 
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Dec 11, 2019 00:27
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Obi-wan’s lovely mentorship is what sets Anakin down the path of the dark side. Anakin straight up tells him that he really wants to gently caress Padme now that he’s meeting her again. Obi-wan’s like “whoa, sounds pretty dark, you should check yourself, kid.” A couple scenes later he’s packing Anakin off on vacation with her. What the gently caress was he thinking? Also he‘s just really unkind to Anakin most of the time. Rewatch the chase scene at the start of 2. He’s borderline abusive. Anakin is trying his best to please him, he’s saying how he loves him like a father, and Obi-wan’s rude, dismissive and critical to a guy who just saved his life. “You’re going to be the death of me.” Anakin repeatedly tantrums about how it seems like Obi-wan doesn’t respect him and just dunks on him all the time, and he’s being childish sure, but he’s not wrong either. Ben’s a bad dad. Ben even admitted this back in the OT. “I thought that I could train him just as well as Yoda...I was wrong.” skasion fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 00:27
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The fact of the matter is that this entire trilogy was horribly rushed and thrown together as fast as humanly possible, leading to use of poorly thought out scripts that fall apart under even mild inspection. That said star wars 8 in particular is so weird and jank that at least it falls apart in interestingly bizarre ways
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Dec 11, 2019 00:29
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skasion posted:The droid army in the prequels is essentially a PMC. You could argue that the clone army is too, tbh, only it has a veneer of legitimacy from having been made the Grand Army of the Republic after the fact. i mean the whole confederacy are basicaly just rich gleep glops that got tricked/greeded into being the bad guys for a war thats was basicaly a stage play.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:30
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QuarkJets posted:Also, pointing out that the military industrial complex is the real villain behind every war But they do that in the most simplistic manner possible and it has next to no actual bearing on the plot? It's almost a throwaway line.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:31
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The military industrial complex thing honestly might be one of the most bizarre things in the bizarre film, just because I can't believe rian thought whoever was going to come after him would ever in a million years pick up and continue that thread. As it is it will sit there forever as several mains reaching consensus about who the real villain is, then never talking about it again
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Dec 11, 2019 00:34
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Randarkman posted:But they do that in the most simplistic manner possible and it has next to no actual bearing on the plot? It's almost a throwaway line. its a pretty good sequel setup No Mods No Masters posted:The military industrial complex thing honestly might be one of the most bizarre things in the bizarre film, just because I can't believe rian thought whoever was going to come after him would ever in a million years pick up and continue that thread. As it is it will sit there forever as several mains reaching consensus about who the real villain is, then never talking about it again I would 
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Dec 11, 2019 00:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2fH8FeoNs8
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Dec 11, 2019 01:01
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No Mods No Masters posted:The military industrial complex thing honestly might be one of the most bizarre things in the bizarre film, just because I can't believe rian thought whoever was going to come after him would ever in a million years pick up and continue that thread. As it is it will sit there forever as several mains reaching consensus about who the real villain is, then never talking about it again Prob one of the most frustrating parts of that movie because the viewpoint expressed is something I vehemently agree with but it's done in such an artless throwaway manner and doesn't matter at loving all. Not just to the wider setting, which it ought to, but to TLJ itself. "Obscenely wealthy ghouls driving galactic conflict for arms sales living it up in a giant slave-staffed casino" could have probably been replaced with "big monster with a ray gun" and it wouldn't have made a poo poo of difference to the movie surrounding it
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Dec 11, 2019 01:37
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there's a new set of leaks and they seem very accurate based on the leaked ost. not much difference but lol this movie is going to be a shitshow and yeah the comics say luke's students attacked ben after he collapsed the roof on luke lmao and ben had to flee for his life with them in pursuit
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Dec 11, 2019 01:37
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skasion posted:
Lol quote:was i picked on in jedi academy? hmm let me think
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Dec 11, 2019 03:18
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So was Luke leaving a map of where to find him in TFA just a brilliant way to gaslight all of his friends and family or is it just representative of the slapdash nature of this trilogy? But seriously, was there an actual point to that?
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Dec 11, 2019 03:19
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Kazak posted:Lol lol the rat fandom posted:So was Luke leaving a map of where to find him in TFA just a brilliant way to gaslight all of his friends and family or is it just representative of the slapdash nature of this trilogy? It’s a McGuffin for the mains to chase in lieu of an actual plot. TROS is supposedly about the characters chasing down another map to the conclusion of the movie. I have no clue what it is supposed to mean within the story. Luke gave the important half of the map to Lor San Tekka, but who the gently caress is that guy? Does anyone know or care? What does it signify that he had the map? Was he trying to get it close to Rey? Why would he? He doesn’t want to train her, he doesn’t seem to at all know who she is. He doesn’t want to train anyone. Hiding away wasn’t some kind of test to make sure only the right person could find him or anything, he straight up doesn’t want to be found. Leia wants to find him but there isn’t any obvious connection between her and Max von Sydow or Jakku. skasion fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 03:23
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I looked at the wook and even it doesn’t try justifying why luke left the map with R2. For some reason I thought it had been retconned to sorta make some weak rear end kind of sense, but lol no 
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Dec 11, 2019 03:30
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Post whatever leaks are being shared, give in to the dark side, don't even think about it just post
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Dec 11, 2019 03:48
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palpatine is back and sexier than ever!
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Dec 11, 2019 03:52
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