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With only a minor understanding of things over there beyond "you're hosed", how likely is it now that Scotland pushes for independence again, whether or not it's likely to succeed?
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Dec 13, 2019 06:03
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Also, class consciousness is a lie, the false consciousness is real and the low information voter will happily let the leopard eat his face so long as it happens to a minority first. gently caress the lumpenproletariat.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:04
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Pesmerga posted:This is a bloodbath. I’ve not been able to sleep since the results came in. I’ve been feeling since January that any momentum that was gained by 2017 had completely faltered, and that we’d become too confident about Corbyn being basically PM in waiting. I think the reorientation of Labour as it dissects this loss is going to be vicious, and it will be caught between either dumping its current approach and political figures, or outright irrelevancy. Things are bad. However right now you are catastrophizing, please take care of yourself.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:06
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RBA Starblade posted:With only a minor understanding of things over there beyond "you're hosed", how likely is it now that Scotland pushes for independence again, whether or not it's likely to succeed? They'll push for it and Boris will laugh at them.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:07
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Pesmerga posted:Also, class consciousness is a lie, the false consciousness is real and the low information voter will happily let the leopard eat his face so long as it happens to a minority first. gently caress the lumpenproletariat. The proletariat remains the class that must lead the revolution.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:07
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unwantedplatypus posted:Things are bad. However right now you are catastrophizing, please take care of yourself. His wife's an EU citizen. You know, the people Boris Johnson literally said we're treating the U.K. atop much like their home. Not the best tack to take there, chief.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:07
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MrFlibble posted:They'll push for it and Boris will laugh at them. That's about what I thought thanks
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Dec 13, 2019 06:08
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unwantedplatypus posted:Things are bad. However right now you are catastrophizing, please take care of yourself. How is that catastrophising exactly?
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Dec 13, 2019 06:08
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lol England is really gunning for that nationwide cosplay of Children of Men huh
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Dec 13, 2019 06:08
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Ideal would be tall, media-friendly and leftreignonyourparade posted:Actually pick them a week before the general election so the media has as little time to go to town as possible might be your only hope. A bait and last minute switch to a popular candidate would be hilarious. Especially if you set the candidate up in advance with a media narrative of “One True Liberal Uniter” in opposition to your socialist stalking horse as a long con.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:08
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Beefeater1980 posted:Ideal would be tall, media-friendly and left Way too many folks ITT obsessed with finding the optimal strategy in a rigged game.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:09
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Goddamit UK.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:10
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How does not needing the DUP for a majority change things with respect to NI? Does it make a unification referendum more or less likely?
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Dec 13, 2019 06:11
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I'm really impressed that no one on the stream broke down. I've been crying all night
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Dec 13, 2019 06:11
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Turns out the liberals were right,better things aren't possible. At least not until a generation or two dies off anyway.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:11
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I wonder how many Scots are kicking themselves for not leaving when they had chance. gently caress this gay earth.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:12
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Absurd Alhazred posted:How does not needing the DUP for a majority change things with respect to NI? Does it make a unification referendum more or less likely? Please stop assuming the Conservatives are interested in democracy.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:12
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unwantedplatypus posted:Things are bad. However right now you are catastrophizing, please take care of yourself. You've already sold your grammar to Trump
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Dec 13, 2019 06:12
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Absurd Alhazred posted:How does not needing the DUP for a majority change things with respect to NI? Does it make a unification referendum more or less likely? Its means Brits can go back to the comfortable default position of just ignoring those weirdos in Ulster.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:13
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ColonelMuttonchops posted:I read in another thread that Corbyn is at like -40 for unpopularity. If thats right, how the gently caress did that happen, is that just the result of years of news media making GBS threads on him? It is, and nobody knows. Brown got the same treatment, Miliband got the same treatment (With a healthy side order of anti-semitism lol), Corbyn got the same treatment. Thing is it didn't seem to stick much in 2017 so, why now? Was it legitimately Corbyn, was it the smears against Corbyn, the manifesto, did we get hosed by Brexit and absent that would have, if not stormed it, at least done decently? I want to say it was the latter. I want to believe this happened because of a situation that Labour had no good way out of. Going Leave was obvious suicide. I don't see how going Remain would have done significantly better, we got hosed over by the Brexit Party vote more than anything we could have made up from the LDs. Trying to thread the needle with a promise of a sensible deal and second referendum was the only thing I think was viable. But it didn't work, and I don't know if that's because the needle wasn't threaded or because it couldn't be threaded and it was indeed a bad strategy. Anyway my point is that I want to believe that the Labour platform was one that could win an election and we just got unlucky with a unique situation, that the ground will be very different next time around. Brown losing we can account for - it came after a long period of Labour majority and the 2008 crash. But him, Miliband, and now Corbyn, all losing, on different platforms and different circumstances, it... it makes me doubt how viable a left platform is. I hope I'm just depressed and doomsaying tonight and you'll all forgive me if I am, but is a centrist melt with a centrist platform really the best we can do? How can we get the poison out, and see whether a left platform even is viable when it's presented honestly and fairly, when we can't get our hands on the levers of power to enact reforms?
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Dec 13, 2019 06:13
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Skinner lost his seat.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:13
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Bit loving poo poo. It was good to hope though - we have to keep wanting and believing things can change. I'm just not convinced democracy or some XR type poo poo works, nor do I want to wait 5 years or just hang around waiting for a voting bloc to die.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:14
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Pesmerga posted:Skinner lost his seat. WHAT
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Dec 13, 2019 06:15
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forkboy84 posted:Its means Brits can go back to the comfortable default position of just ignoring those weirdos in Ulster. So are they more or less likely to make decisions about the Irish border which might trigger a referendum and/or more bombings than when they had DUP in?
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Dec 13, 2019 06:16
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Venomous posted:WHAT Yeah, it’s gone Blue. I wish that having seen this coming since the beginning of the year would have acted as some kind of insulation against this, but nope, I’m feeling devastated. Edit: working with people who were working on Northern Ireland den a security respective, NI is hosed, and potentially Ireland too, with reunification being one of the few things that may prevent that to an extent.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:16
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It will be hard to have a viable left platform while the system is split into 2 parties more or less, first past the post makes it so you can't really have an alternative or have something like in representative democracies that various small parties end up forming government as they get the majority.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:17
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Meanwhile, of course: https://twitter.com/bbcelection/status/1205342375620620288
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Dec 13, 2019 06:17
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people in northern Ireland are moving more towards reunification, especially young people, and this can only increase as brexit totally fucks them
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Dec 13, 2019 06:17
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Darth Walrus posted:His wife's an EU citizen. You know, the people Boris Johnson literally said we're treating the U.K. atop much like their home. Not the best tack to take there, chief. I'm in the same situation, and I've been living in low level fear since the brexit results. Honestly unsure how to keep pushing on at thits point.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:17
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Pesmerga posted:How is that catastrophising exactly? The fears w/r/t to Boris Johnson are, unfortunately, quite reasonable; but saying that this will definitely lead to the return of neoliberalism in the labour party is not something anyone can know. Saying that this means the UK will always be Tory is also unsupported.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:17
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gently caress murray
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Dec 13, 2019 06:17
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Ms Adequate posted:It is, and nobody knows. Brown got the same treatment, Miliband got the same treatment (With a healthy side order of anti-semitism lol), Corbyn got the same treatment. Thing is it didn't seem to stick much in 2017 so, why now? Was it legitimately Corbyn, was it the smears against Corbyn, the manifesto, did we get hosed by Brexit and absent that would have, if not stormed it, at least done decently? The centrist melts got hammered too. They're only ever a transitional stage to full fascism.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:17
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Spiffster posted:I know it sucks folks but please hang in there. We are all in this together and you have friends all over this dead forum that wish you the best from all over the globe. Just as we will try next year in the US, I know the UK will pull out of this bullshit. Your efforts were not in vain as it only strengthens your will for a better tomorrow and better ideas for what will work next time. Miriame Kava, a prison abolitionist and activist in the US has a refrain I’ve been repeating to myself since I first heard it, “Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair.” Keep this in mind. I know it hurts to see this happen, but take a breather, and then dig in your heels, get out into your communities and try to create the world you want to live in. Because the arc of the moral universe only bends toward justice when you push on it.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:20
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Absurd Alhazred posted:How does not needing the DUP for a majority change things with respect to NI? Does it make a unification referendum more or less likely? More, as the DUP in government were never going to support a move like that but also had the influence to prevent an alternative happening (Which was May's whole issue). Having a border of any sort down the Irish Sea is going to send the DUP and other Unionists into absolute apopleptics, and that alone won't make them ardent Republicans or anything, but the GFA is going to be stressed and possibly break down and all the talk I'm hearing is growing support for, at the least, talking about reunification.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:20
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Pesmerga posted:Yeah, it’s gone Blue. That's how bad it is. Dennis Skinner has been MP for Bolsover longer than I've been alive.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:20
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I, and many others, are gonna be hosed with what these dickheads are going to do to the NHS. A grim morning.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:20
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unwantedplatypus posted:The fears w/r/t to Boris Johnson are, unfortunately, quite reasonable; but saying that this will definitely lead to the return of neoliberalism in the labour party is not something anyone can know. Saying that this means the UK will always be Tory is also unsupported. It doesn’t matter if maybe in, what, ten years? if people might turn to labour, because we’ve picked barbarism rather than socialism pretty conclusively this time, and a lot of people are going to suffer as a result. And you know that the knuckle-draggers that love brexit, Johnson and hate immigrants are just going to blame themselves and reconsider their world view. Meanwhile, Labour is already tearing itself apart this morning, and that’s going to get worse too.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:21
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that's tragic about skinner
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Dec 13, 2019 06:21
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So why are Britain's voting for the Tory's? Why not Labour?
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Dec 13, 2019 06:22
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Man, as much I was on board for thinking it was wise to play the referendum, second vote card, I definitely feel like capitulating on the Brexit result at all cost them dearly. I always said that this referendum was not non-binding at all, but I thought giving people a second say was smart. No, Labour should probably have stuck to the result and worked their own Brexit plan, none of the waffle. The people had already spoken as far as alot in the traditional Labour heartlands were concerned and their position served them not at all.
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Dec 13, 2019 06:23
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