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the greatest trick the Tories ever pulled was convincing the electorate that the EU gave them austerity and death, when it was all self-inflicted compost the rich e: March 7th 2007: The House of Commons votes for a fully elected House of Lords. It didn't come to pass, and will never come to pass in our lifetimes. 
Venomous fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 11:46
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fridge corn posted:Lol, after 10 years of austerity and conservative rule everything is run down and awful, things need to change that's why I'm voting conservative lololol This is easy to point and laugh at but our politics is weird. You'd be surprised how many people hold their local MP responsible for stuff even if problems are as a result of Westminster cutting funds to non Tory held seats. This again seems to be a messaging problem from Labour along with the historic "Labour as well" neglect mentioned earlier. If what I am hearing about how little we campaigned in historically "safe" seats is true I'll be loving fuming, that's exactly one of the things that cost Hillary big time.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:47
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Trades posted:I guess the two questions are what are they and how do we build them? Forming labour community centres and youth centres given how councils have retreated with budget cuts?
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Dec 14, 2019 11:48
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Bundy posted:If what I am hearing about how little we campaigned in historically "safe" seats is true I'll be loving fuming, that's exactly one of the things that cost Hillary big time. ed: also running against a clown who became popular through media appearances. we're the USA, but happening a few years later
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Dec 14, 2019 11:51
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Jose posted:I can see the next election having record low turnout and not just for voter suppression reasons. Will be interesting seeing how they justify voter ID after winning a landslide not like it matters The perfidious Scot cannot be trusted. quote:Renfrewshire Council said a possible case of personation had been reported to police in the Paisley and Renfrewshire North constituency.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:52
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https://twitter.com/robertverkaik1/status/1205478171837116416?s=20 This was not a Tory landslide. The results were catastrophic but there is a majority of Britons who either don't want Boris or don't care either way. The fight is still ours to be won.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:54
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Bundy posted:Labour need to start organising and communicating us proles directly and until they do this will keep happening. We keep reacting to the alt right and pointing at them and shouting racist/fascist. It's obvious, now, given who just got the keys to number 10 with a loving huge mandate, that we'll happily elect racists and being racist doesn't put voters off. Yeah for quite a few it's not really something that they really are bothered about. Hell, for some it's actually a plus, not that they would admit to that in polite society. Hence Johnson's past articles not being all that much of a problem for him, unfortunately. There is probably a way to make at least some people care, I hope
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Dec 14, 2019 12:00
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Bundy posted:This is easy to point and laugh at but our politics is weird. You'd be surprised how many people hold their local MP responsible for stuff even if problems are as a result of Westminster cutting funds to non Tory held seats. This again seems to be a messaging problem from Labour along with the historic "Labour as well" neglect mentioned earlier. Running a defensive campaign when you’re not in power is also a stupid thing to do. A Tory majority of 20 or 80 isn’t really much different for us now.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:00
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serious gaylord posted:If possible can anyone either record or find clips from your local news about people being interviewed about why they voted tory in the labour strongholds that flipped? No clips unfortunately but lots of examples in this twitter https://twitter.com/rodjgrimmer/status/1205563367714365440?s=19
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Dec 14, 2019 12:15
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More like de-mock-racy.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:19
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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il_cornuto posted:https://twitter.com/robertverkaik1/status/1205478171837116416?s=20 Breaking down figures like this is a silly way of ignoring how badly Labour lost.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:21
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Private Speech posted:Actually residents rather than citizens, even. Um. For some value of 'resident'. My wife has been on an FLR (M) visa in the UK for the last 4 years and got to pay a £250 'NHS fee' at her last visa renewal. It's gone up since.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:21
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Not So Fast posted:Breaking down figures like this is a silly way of ignoring how badly Labour lost. It's 2016 brain, it's infected us all worse than any form of lead poisoning.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:22
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Azza Bamboo posted:It should do a vote, branding it as a referendum even though it has no legal binding. Let's say independence wins with an overwhelming majority Catalonia just tried this.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:29
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Not So Fast posted:Breaking down figures like this is a silly way of ignoring how badly Labour lost. At least for me,I'm very aware that this is an election that Labour lost more than the Tories won, that's why I'm pointing out that the Tories have not won over a majority of the country - if we do better from now on, we can win things back. Just looking at how many seats we lost ignores how people actually voted and makes Britain look hopelessly overrun with Tory voters, when it's really not. They have all the power, and it's partly Labours fault, but I see a lot of people acting like the majority of Britons are small minded racists voting against their own interests etc. when actually Tory voters are still a (large) minority, and there's still hope for next time - but we'll have to work for it. I think the ideas about community activism are excellent. E: and to be clear,I'm not saying it's entirely Labours fault we lost this one, but we can only change why we do, not how the media report it etc. il_cornuto fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 12:40
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serious gaylord posted:This is exactly what im talking about. People utterly exasperated that their towns have been run down and its the labour MP's 'fault' so they're trying something new. Complaining that all the funding is going to Wigan and that their market stalls are closing down as if Labour could have stopped it. you've probably already read this but here's more
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Dec 14, 2019 12:44
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feedmegin posted:Catalonia just tried this. Catalonia is in different circumstances.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:47
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Blasmeister posted:Running a defensive campaign when you’re not in power is also a stupid thing to do. A Tory majority of 20 or 80 isn’t really much different for us now. I'm not saying "run a defensive campaign" I'm saying "don't take voters for granted especially in areas massively loving polarised around the dominant issue of the last 3 years". We made every single mistake the Hillary campaign made while completely ignoring what worked for Trump and subsequently, Boris. Like I said on the stream, until the left formulate a counter strategy for the alt right playbook, this will keep happening. In hindsight there perhaps wasn't a campaign Labour could have run on and won in the current climate, this frothing ball of poo poo was set in motion in 2016 and Labour's opportunity to seize the process was 2017. One thing there's little point in, is being reactionary. We've got 2-3 years before we should be back on the offensive to get our agenda ready for the next GE.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:54
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The sheer number of people who don't bother to vote always amazes me. 23m out of 55m just not bothering lol.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:09
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Gasmask posted:Here’s this from the BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50781738 quote:Greengrocer Dave West voted Conservative, despite voting remain in the referendum and expecting his business costs to rise if Britain leaves the EU. To be completely fair, he's likely to get it; it's been tory policy for a while to punt more funds towards blue seats while starving red seats.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:12
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Jedit posted:Catalonia is in different circumstances. Not fundamentally. A vote without legal authority from the State (and that's Westminster not Holyrood) will not be seen as legitimate, and quite rightly so. I'm all for Scottish independence at this point but it's only going to happen legally.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:16
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Pistol_Pete posted:The sheer number of people who don't bother to vote always amazes me. 23m out of 55m just not bothering lol. Until it's mandatory that won't change. Apathy has fully taken hold of so many. You'd be amazed how many people didn't even know what the election was even for.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:16
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lol https://twitter.com/jelly_pack/status/1205822732467941377?s=20
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Dec 14, 2019 13:16
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:you've probably already read this but here's more Note the ages of pretty much everyone they interviewed.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:19
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Weasling Weasel posted:I mean, my town's ex council leader ran off with half of the money to improve our football stadium and is still under legal investigation, and our council has gone bust under Conservative management for decades, but that didn't stop the town still splitting 40% Tory support, so I'm not sure how much local matters affect actually entrenched views in a general election. I just loving despair
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Dec 14, 2019 13:22
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Pistol_Pete posted:The sheer number of people who don't bother to vote always amazes me. 23m out of 55m just not bothering lol. Turnout in Boro was 50%. Fully half the electorate of ruff tuff northerners not bothering because it drizzled a bit. Like other people said, apathy/despair is massive, and info levels are lower than you’d think possible. There’s a big ‘people like us don’t vote/don’t bother with all that’ culture here
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Dec 14, 2019 13:24
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stev posted:Until it's mandatory that won't change. Apathy has fully taken hold of so many. You'd be amazed how many people didn't even know what the election was even for. Isn't Australia mandatory? And MRV? Ballot reform is not a silver bullet against die-hard conservatism.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:25
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Shogi posted:Turnout in Boro was 50%. Fully half the electorate of ruff tuff northerners not bothering because it drizzled a bit. Like other people said, apathy/despair is massive, and info levels are lower than you’d think possible. There’s a big ‘people like us don’t vote/don’t bother with all that’ culture here I like my town but yeah, it's depressingly apathetic about politics.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:26
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I think just getting out and doing poo poo for the next 5 years would help. Give people red jumpers and have them give poo poo out to the homeless or do walk-abouts, start some charity shops, branded soup kitchens and food banks, that sort of guff. They have a whole base who's been conditioned to walking about talking to people, they need to use that before everyone gets bored and goes back to ignoring politics again. Also change the party name to something that doesn't have 100 years of baggage. That too.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:27
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cool https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1205825387365851139?s=20
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Dec 14, 2019 13:27
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stev posted:Until it's mandatory that won't change. Apathy has fully taken hold of so many. You'd be amazed how many people didn't even know what the election was even for. And mandatory voting definitely isn't a solution *looks pointedly at Australia*
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Dec 14, 2019 13:27
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Who did you all vote for at the last Eurovision or the last big reality show final? Oh, why not? Now you're getting it.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:29
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https://twitter.com/renireni/status/1205559804766433280?s=20
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Dec 14, 2019 13:29
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OwlFancier posted:I like my town but yeah, it's depressingly apathetic about politics. Same feelings. It makes me sad that the ‘infant Heracles’ now struggles to get out of its front door, let alone build the world
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Dec 14, 2019 13:30
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HJB posted:Who did you all vote for at the last Eurovision or the last big reality show final? Oh, why not? Now you're getting it. At least i can answer "I'm not interested AND it doesn't affect me" The best they've got is "I'm not interested"
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Dec 14, 2019 13:31
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:At least i can answer "I'm not interested AND it doesn't affect me" No, they'll say it doesn't affect them either, and that's the main problem.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:33
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Shogi posted:Same feelings. It makes me sad that the ‘infant Heracles’ now struggles to get out of its front door, let alone build the world Well new labour didn't do anything to help with that, of course. All they did was oversee the decline. It's not surprising people think labour doesn't give a poo poo about them.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:33
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:At least i can answer "I'm not interested AND it doesn't affect me" Round here the problem is it hasn’t affected them for years, we have just been allowed to slide into the bin by everyone we’ve had. It’s hard to convince people this is different
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Dec 14, 2019 13:34
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Some people definitely think it doesn't really affect them though. Theres a real issue with people thinking politics means Westminster and politicians arguing, instead of bus services and the NHS.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:35
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Labour would get an extra 1 million votes if they just had a photogenic candidate
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Dec 14, 2019 13:38
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