|
Deltasquid posted:https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_6286 Luckily the UK has a long history of fighting in the European courts and *checks notes* losing in a humiliating and miserable climbdown. huh. Sulla Faex posted:I'll take the job. Do you need to be a tory politician or is it enough to just be a colossal piece of poo poo Just the latter.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2019 14:09 |
|
|
# ? May 25, 2024 21:38 |
|
Good ... news?quote:EU’s development bank sets pace on fossil fuel lending I mean, could've been more and could've been faster, but it's a good step.
|
# ? Nov 15, 2019 16:25 |
|
Orange Devil posted:Sure, but my first moral imperative is to call out the bullshit of my own government. Love your link by the way, this part in particular is a recurring motif of Dutch government policy, especially pertaining to the environment: i'm curious actually, nitrogen is the big issue in dutch politics right now, with plans to decrease the speedlimit from 130/120 to 100, an incredibly unpopular move, especially for the right-liberal VVD and the christian-conservative CDA, parties with a traditionally strong pro-car lobby (turns out rich people really like their big expensive cars), but are the limits on nitrogen emission and production a problem anywhere else?
|
# ? Nov 15, 2019 17:31 |
|
oscarthewilde posted:i'm curious actually, nitrogen is the big issue in dutch politics right now, with plans to decrease the speedlimit from 130/120 to 100, an incredibly unpopular move, especially for the right-liberal VVD and the christian-conservative CDA, parties with a traditionally strong pro-car lobby (turns out rich people really like their big expensive cars), but are the limits on nitrogen emission and production a problem anywhere else? Belgium, especially Flanders, and parts of Germany have giant problems of similar scale (and origin).
|
# ? Nov 15, 2019 22:26 |
|
Orange Devil posted:Sure, but my first moral imperative is to call out the bullshit of my own government. Love your link by the way, this part in particular is a recurring motif of Dutch government policy, especially pertaining to the environment: I love pragmatic thinking. I once loved in a town that had large amounts of unemployed and poor benefit recipients, largely concentrated in one neighbourhood. Today the poverty rate is strongly reduced in that area. Great! But why? Turns out the city decided to tear down and not replace part of the social housing there as part of large scale renovation and improvement efforts. The poors simply were sent off to neighbouring municipalities. A job well done, everybody give yourselves a pat on the back! When I lived there, the same city also informed me that many of the homes on my street were no longer considered fit for habitation. A study had revealed that the noise level from the street exceeded the city wide limits. But fear not that you or your landlord might have to conduct expensive renovations: the city was able to raise the limits so that all the houses were habitable again. Great poldering this out!
|
# ? Nov 15, 2019 23:51 |
|
Lord Stimperor posted:I love pragmatic thinking. It's literally the government telling you: "we've decided we aren't going to do our jobs".
|
# ? Nov 16, 2019 14:53 |
|
Ah, so it's not just anglo countries that put the homeless on one-way tickets to other parts of the country so someone else has the problem.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2019 15:13 |
|
Tesseraction posted:Ah, so it's not just anglo countries that put the homeless on one-way tickets to other parts of the country so someone else has the problem. It's funny, around the time my grandparents became adults police would round up homeless people and drop them at the municipal border. Today we're only a few steps divorced from being back to that.
|
# ? Nov 16, 2019 17:46 |
|
Junior G-man posted:Good ... news? ..or a bad joke in guise of greenwashing : oil importation into UE has fallen 14% since 2006. North sea natural gas saw its peak in 2005. Also IEA finally aknowledged in 2018 conventional crude peaked in 2008 (and nobody cared). TLDR : They just stop financing oil, because there isn't really any oil to finance anymore.
|
# ? Nov 17, 2019 16:29 |
|
Bit of crossposting but might be interesting for the people in here too. As you may (not) know, the UKMT has its own podcast, Podcasting is Praxis, and we've recently recorded a special on the EU - it's sort of a primer for UK people but maybe you find it interesting? https://twitter.com/PraxisCast/status/1197811937343610880?s=20
|
# ? Nov 22, 2019 10:55 |
|
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKBN1Y01W0quote:Ankara has told its NATO envoy not to sign off on the plan and is taking a tough line in meetings and in private conversations, demanding the alliance recognize the YPG as terrorists in the formal wording, the sources said. It's so great that EU countries all insist that collective defense must be done through NATO so as to give Turkey a right of veto over defense of the Baltics. So great.
|
# ? Nov 26, 2019 21:03 |
|
Cat Mattress posted:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKBN1Y01W0 Using the baltic as a bargaining chip has always been the way things are dome
|
# ? Nov 28, 2019 19:31 |
|
Perfidious Albion finally going to actually Brexit, save rest of Europe from itself by falling on own sword
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 12:00 |
|
suck my woke dick posted:Perfidious Albion finally going to actually Brexit, save rest of Europe from itself by falling on own sword Britain is nobly sacrificing itself in order to show to the other European nations why the EU is important. The fact that calls for withdrawal from the EU have died away in other states is the silver lining of this poo poo show.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 12:21 |
|
Cat Mattress posted:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKBN1Y01W0 Though let's be fair, this time won't be a veto, NATO will simply throw the YPG under the bus and feel very sad about it In the future however, yeah probably Libluini fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Dec 14, 2019 |
# ? Dec 14, 2019 12:25 |
|
The EU should straight up federalise now. gently caress it. Nationalism is poison and the EU should strengthen itself to prevent this poo poo from happening again
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 12:27 |
|
lol the EU is the single best thing to happen to reactionary nationalism since the war an unaccountable central regime with arcane rules which sits around eating expensive lunches while everything gets worse is the perfect target for nationalist discontent the EU is a fundamentally broken institution. it is not the answer to anything at all
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 12:39 |
|
V. Illych L. posted:lol the EU is the single best thing to happen to reactionary nationalism since the war On the other hand, I am like the first person in my entire lineage that didn't have to fight a war against a neighbor country, which is pretty cool.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 12:53 |
|
caps on caps on caps posted:On the other hand, I am like the first person in my entire lineage that didn't have to fight a war against a neighbor country yet
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 12:59 |
|
caps on caps on caps posted:On the other hand, I am like the first person in my entire lineage that didn't have to fight a war against a neighbor country, which is pretty cool. honestly think that the cold war is what you have to thank for that
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:01 |
|
V. Illych L. posted:honestly think that the cold war is what you have to thank for that considering how many wars the cold war produced, you're very wrong to think that
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:02 |
|
a war in europe was too risky. the soviets quashed any large-scale conflicts in their zone of control and the americans did the same in theirs. the EU does not account for the lack of conflict in eastern europe; only the dominance of a superpower does that
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:05 |
|
V. Illych L. posted:the EU is a fundamentally broken institution. it is not the answer to anything at all The EU has flaws but its the best hope for European cooperation and solidarity. For example the European Regional Development Fund helps poorer regions of the EU improve and the European Court allows citizens to appeal against unjust decisions from their own governments. The EU is complex because it had to built on compromise rather than being imposed upon Europe by a conqueror, and it is accountable to the democratically elected governments of its members. Subscribing to a populist smear that the EU is a bunch of stuck up bureaucrats who do nothing to help others is neither accurate nor helpful. What are you proposing; dismantling the EU and going back to the era of competing and potentially hostile nation-states that existed before it? V. Illych L. posted:honestly think that the cold war is what you have to thank for that The cold war has been over for almost 30 years. That's plenty of time in which to start a war.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:13 |
|
For all its other faults the EU has contributed massively to the longest period of peace in European history. It has succeeded completely in what was the original primary goal of its establishment. I have sympathy for British people now facing 5 years of Tory abuse of power but Boris winning and Brexit actually happening is probably a better result for the EU than a LibDem/LAB coalition having a second referendum, and the UK very grudgingly staying in, would have been. All those Brexit party MEPs were not going to be constructive European parliamentarians. Things can get along with further and deeper integration now, and let the UK apply to rejoin in a decade or two minus its rebate and its ego.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:19 |
V. Illych L. posted:a war in europe was too risky. the soviets quashed any large-scale conflicts in their zone of control and the americans did the same in theirs. the EU does not account for the lack of conflict in eastern europe; only the dominance of a superpower does that I'm not saying EU is all-great, it has plenty of problems - but they're ones that can be solved without sending young people to their deaths.
|
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:40 |
|
I just hope the U.K. actually starts prepping for Brexit. I don't want medicine shortages to kill people. I want people to be ok
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:44 |
|
The basis of the claim that the EU has created peace in Europe is iffy at best. A much stronger argument can and has been made that american military hegemony (read: NATO) is what stands as the basis of the long peace. No room for petty squables when a dominating military enforces decorum.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 13:46 |
|
D. Ebdrup posted:Are you forgetting just how frequently wars were happening in europe even before the two world wars? this isn't contradicting my point at all though Factor_VIII posted:The EU has flaws but its the best hope for European cooperation and solidarity. For example the European Regional Development Fund helps poorer regions of the EU improve and the European Court allows citizens to appeal against unjust decisions from their own governments. The EU is complex because it had to built on compromise rather than being imposed upon Europe by a conqueror, and it is accountable to the democratically elected governments of its members. Subscribing to a populist smear that the EU is a bunch of stuck up bureaucrats who do nothing to help others is neither accurate nor helpful. What are you proposing; dismantling the EU and going back to the era of competing and potentially hostile nation-states tuhat existed before it? the EU *is* a bunch of stuck-up bureaucrats. they try their best, of course, but their way of solving problems doesn't work. means-testing, intricate incentive structures to maximise free trade and marketisation are not solutions which can work for the problems we're facing today, and the EU's veto policy functions like the liberum veto in the polish-lithuanian commonwealth, making it insanely vulnerable to bad faith and basically impossible to reform the institution the EU is moribound. being less awful than the US or china us not enough
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 14:19 |
|
MiddleOne posted:The basis of the claim that the EU has created peace in Europe is iffy at best. A much stronger argument can and has been made that american military hegemony (read: NATO) is what stands as the basis of the long peace. Looking at Cyprus and Turkey, uhh. As long as neither are important members you mean. Or Cyprus and Britain for that matter. e: ^^^ There's precious few nations and institutions which aren't terrible by that metric. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Dec 14, 2019 |
# ? Dec 14, 2019 14:20 |
|
MiddleOne posted:The basis of the claim that the EU has created peace in Europe is iffy at best. A much stronger argument can and has been made that american military hegemony (read: NATO) is what stands as the basis of the long peace. This is a bit backwards, as the EU can not have created peace in Europe as the EU didn't exist when NATO was formed. But the EU today guarantees peace a lot better than our unreliable hegemon
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 14:44 |
|
V. Illych L. posted:the EU *is* a bunch of stuck-up bureaucrats. they try their best, of course, but their way of solving problems doesn't work. means-testing, intricate incentive structures to maximise free trade and marketisation are not solutions which can work for the problems we're facing today, and the EU's veto policy functions like the liberum veto in the polish-lithuanian commonwealth, making it insanely vulnerable to bad faith and basically impossible to reform the institution The EU does have flaws, but I believe that it is more flexible and capable than you think. For example the Eurozone used to have no mechanism for bailing out member states if they went bankrupt but when the 2008 crisis hit, it was able to create the European Stability Mechanism and rescue Ireland, Cyprus, Greece and Portugal. The process was drawn out and had flaws, but none of these countries declared formal bankruptcy and their economies have been recovering since then. Many people thought that the Eurozone would collapse but its members did do what was necessary to ensure its survival. Private Speech posted:Looking at Cyprus and Turkey, uhh. As long as neither are important members you mean. Yeah, NATO isn't good at keeping the peace between its member states. For example it has a policy of strict neutrality when it comes to Greece and Turkey and hadn't intervened the three times the two states nearly went to war. Another recent example is that Turkey last week decided to split up the Eastern Mediterranean with a strongman it's supporting in Libya while ignoring Greek and Cypriot territory in direct violation of the UN convention on the law of the sea. Turkey now claims that e.g. the waters south and east of Crete are its territorial waters and that Greece has no claim to them and NATO stays silent. It's an organization that was never designed to ensure that its members coexist peacefully and has no interest in punishing members that violate international law.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 15:58 |
|
Libluini posted:This is a bit backwards, as the EU can not have created peace in Europe as the EU didn't exist when NATO was formed. But the EU today guarantees peace a lot better than our unreliable hegemon I'm sorry to inform you that the hegemonic US military presence in Europe predates NATO. As for the second claim, that theory is sure to be put to the test at the pace our nations keep going fascist. Private Speech posted:Looking at Cyprus and Turkey, uhh. As long as neither are important members you mean. Well yeah obviously. Though I'm sure Turkey and Greece would have gone to war by now proper if not for the US keeping them at arms length. Factor_VIII posted:The EU does have flaws, but I believe that it is more flexible and capable than you think. For example the Eurozone used to have no mechanism for bailing out member states if they went bankrupt but when the 2008 crisis hit, it was able to create the European Stability Mechanism and rescue Ireland, Cyprus, Greece and Portugal. The process was drawn out and had flaws, but none of these countries declared formal bankruptcy and their economies have been recovering since then. Many people thought that the Eurozone would collapse but its members did do what was necessary to ensure its survival. The Eurozone is still very much collapsing. Also the countries haven't been saved from bankruptcy at all, a country can't go into bankruptcy and their economies have either stagnated (Greece), declined (Ireland) or succeeded by going mostly against the decrees enforced on them (Portugal). The jury is still very much out on the Eurozone surviving another financial crash. Ireland is funny because it looks okayish by the numbers but then you remember that they're a tax shelter for international corporations and that much of their recovery comes from a re-booming FIRE-sector. Suddenly things seem a tad more worrying. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 14, 2019 |
# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:05 |
|
MiddleOne posted:The Eurozone is still very much collapsing. Also the countries haven't been saved from bankruptcy at all, a country can't go into bankruptcy and their economies have either stagnated (Greece), declined (Ireland) or succeeded by going mostly against the decrees enforced on them (Portugal). Ireland had a GDP of 275 billion USD in 2008 and 334 billion USD in 2017 so what metric are you using to state that its economy has declined? Greece had started to recover in 2014 until the populist government that took over in 2015 tanked its economy. Greece has started to recover once again over the past couple of years. Why do you say that Portugal didn't follow its economic adjustment program? From what I've read Portugal did follow its instructions such as reducing state spending or privatizing state-owned corporations.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:28 |
|
Factor_VIII posted:Ireland had a GDP of 275 billion USD in 2008 and 334 billion USD in 2017 so what metric are you using to state that its economy has declined? Talk to me about metrics involving people rather than "the economy". More money for rich people doesn't interest me.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:29 |
|
MiddleOne posted:I'm sorry to inform you that the hegemonic US military presence in Europe predates NATO. By like four years, four years spend with slow rebuilding after WWII. Besides, NATO is the American military hegemony, trying to see a difference between both is a fool's choice. The US in Europe in between 1945-1949 is basically the Proto-NATO.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:35 |
|
MiddleOne posted:Well yeah obviously. Though I'm sure Turkey and Greece would have gone to war by now proper if not for the US keeping them at arms length. It's pretty crazy at times to think of the wars that the US just being around has stopped from breaking out (even if they're busy making war elsewhere). Having learned about Korea and Japan's shared past, it's shocking that they're not more at each other's throats, and that's probably got to do with them being both closely allied to the US, and having a fair amount of their military on site.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:37 |
|
Orange Devil posted:Talk to me about metrics involving people rather than "the economy". More money for rich people doesn't interest me. Ireland had a 31.9% Gini coefficient in 2014, which means it has fairly high income equality.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 16:38 |
|
Venomous posted:The EU should straight up federalise now. gently caress it. Nationalism is poison and the EU should strengthen itself to prevent this poo poo from happening again Turning the EU into an actual federal state would require a massive dose of (Pan-European) nationalism. Our monkey brains are wired to emotionally work with in-groups and out-groups. Nationalism is what allows to include all your fellow citizens of your country in your in-group, even if they're complete strangers. If you don't have nationalism, it'll be something else, and chances are the in-group will be smaller than when it's all the nationals. Perhaps it'll be sectarianism, perhaps it'll be regionalism, regardless it's going to exclude more people from the in-group. The entire thing about self-determination is that you can't force people who don't feel they belong together to live together. How do you get people to feel that they belong together? By convincing them they're part of the same nation. Factor_VIII posted:Yeah, NATO isn't good at keeping the peace between its member states. For example it has a policy of strict neutrality when it comes to Greece and Turkey and hadn't intervened the three times the two states nearly went to war. Another recent example is that Turkey last week decided to split up the Eastern Mediterranean with a strongman it's supporting in Libya while ignoring Greek and Cypriot territory in direct violation of the UN convention on the law of the sea. Turkey now claims that e.g. the waters south and east of Crete are its territorial waters and that Greece has no claim to them and NATO stays silent. It's an organization that was never designed to ensure that its members coexist peacefully and has no interest in punishing members that violate international law. NATO is brain-dead, that's one of the few things on which Jupiter is right. Did you know there's a whole political side to NATO? With a Parliament and all? You'd be hard-pressed to come up with an example of a thing it has achieved.
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 17:48 |
|
For a fun time, check out NATO's post-Cold War strategic concepts and all the vague but riveting things they've committed themselves to in this increasingly complex and interconnected world. Then look at what they've actually done. Libluini posted:By like four years, four years spend with slow rebuilding after WWII. Besides, NATO is the American military hegemony, trying to see a difference between both is a fool's choice. Right. The US has also repeatedly quashed any efforts at a European-led alternative (or, hell, complement) to NATO even when NATO and US foreign policy more broadly run counter to member states' security interests. Presidents and pundits here have griped about Europeans not paying enough for their own defense since the days of Eisenhower while mostly shrugging off US responsibility for that situation. Karenina fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Dec 14, 2019 |
# ? Dec 14, 2019 18:40 |
|
|
# ? May 25, 2024 21:38 |
|
Cat Mattress posted:Turning the EU into an actual federal state would require a massive dose of (Pan-European) nationalism. You are absolutely right and I hate it. Europe as a concrete thing is hosed. Reminded myself of that Blyth bit. Macron says 'More Europe!' The rest of Europe says 'NO!'
|
# ? Dec 14, 2019 19:55 |