|
Kangxi posted:The first thread is in the SA archives. The last gameplay post in that thread was in 2015. holy poo poo i feel old
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 11:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 16:01 |
|
|
Kangxi posted:The first thread is in the SA archives. The last gameplay post in that thread was in 2015. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3603375#post424599296 I had completely forgotten about the old Greek potatoface portraits, yikes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 12:26
|
|
|
Weird how defeating international fascism got way more topical since then huh
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 19:35
|
|
|
Vichan posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3603375#post424599296 I've never read this before, and fuckin'  at Thanqol's Stan Kelly cartoon: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3603375&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=9#post425968486
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2019 22:59
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
For all two of you who still sometimes play DH, new KRDH update. You'll probably need the Ecuador event file fix that's 2 posts down.
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2019 23:23
|
|
|
What kind of Vicky games are you guys playing? I like the pdm version of divergences, with some small tweaks of my own. Changing poor pops wants from iron to steel does wonders for the steel industry, adding mil increases for big colonial states makes China less enticing, reducing factory buildtime helps the ai out when it loses them because a pigeon flew by, stuff like that. If you have any things like that to make the game harder, please do share.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2019 02:48
|
|
|
uguu posted:What kind of Vicky games are you guys playing? Those all sound pretty interesting, maybe I should give pdm another go! I stopped playing with it around the time HoD came out. I usually play with the Blood and Iron mod. It's pretty good--sort of a PDM or HPM lite--but the tweaks to the Oriental Crisis and the crisis system in general gently caress with the Balkans quite a bit. Since I'm a huge grognard about Balkan history, it annoys me sometimes, especially since states freed via crisis get all their cores. Which means giant splotches across southeastern Europe. Bleh.  It also throws in some new rebel types and changes the military units a bit--for example, guards change from offensive to defensive units and theres a late game offensive infantry unit called Stormtroopers. If you're interested, they have a page on ModDB with more details.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2019 17:27
|
|
|
Been playing off a pretty well working HPM port of Divergences myself, runs smoother than the PDM bloat and has a decent chunk of extra events/flavor/etc... to keep even the most off the wall runs interesting
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2019 17:57
|
|
|
I should like to try a HPM-based mod, but I can't peel myself away from the added factories and especially the tech system off PDM. Also what does the genocide decision do, are there any benefits to it? Heres' my changelog upto now:
popneeds changed to steel/ bronze no we from badboy, we decreases at war a little increased demand from invention longer nationalism less rp for ai unciv before 1890, more after/ less rp for player halved newspaper output increased mil for large colonies add tech reform on unciv state loss noncore tax penalty back chinese states + (flintlock or command principle) and arti or forts, regulars won't trigger before 1850 for uncivs irregulars buffed removed oman reforms regulars org > inf org tax loss for lack of ships we effects tweaked increased bb limit Haven't finished a game yet with these changes, but I I can give the code if you want it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2019 12:44
|
|
|
This is the branch I was referencing: https://github.com/TheDeNuke/DvD-Custom-Branch Worth a look, it has some of the PDM features like the tech tree as well. More simplified factory stuff tho
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2019 13:55
|
|
|
uguu posted:what does the genocide decision do Well, I guess we have a new thread title now. (I'm not familiar, but I suspect it probably perpetrates a genocide against whatever undesirables you got. As to "benefits"- wrong culture POPs are much, much less useful that accepted culture POPs, but it's still much more useful than "dead", so there aren't a whole lot of good reasons to do it. You need a colonial state to be majority primary or accepted culture to turn it into a state (unless it's on the same continent as your capital, I think- I'm rusty), and provinces which are majority primary culture have a chance of being cored, but there's not much point to doing those things if you're killing most of the population there to do it. Like, the UK would love to enstate India- but because being able to put those hundreds of millions behind factories and armies (soldier POPs in colonies can only support 1/10 of the usual number of brigades IIRC) would make them unstoppable. The only real upside is less revolts, and those are hardly worth worrying about most of the time. I don't think it would even save you from being a crisis target, if that was a concern. Unless HDM has other stuff that ties into it it's mostly just for Nazi roleplayers.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2019 14:12
|
|
|
HPM originated from 4chan's grand strategy general thread. That's your answer for "why does the genocide decision exist if it seems to be actively detrimental on top of being, you know, genocide".
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2019 15:31
|
|
|
ThatBasqueGuy posted:This is the branch I was referencing: https://github.com/TheDeNuke/DvD-Custom-Branch Looks like it only drops the different different weapons and machine parts change, which is a great change. I will try it out, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 14:45
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/producerjohan/status/1211995507725348865?s=21
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 21:09
|
|
|
Johan is going to kill himself over imperator
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 21:14
|
|
|
I feel bad for Johan and a lot of the flak he's gotten this year has been really unwarranted, but there is just a level of delusion in that tweet about Imperator's status at launch that is... impressive.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 21:23
|
|
|
Drone posted:I feel bad for Johan and a lot of the flak he's gotten this year has been really unwarranted, but there is just a level of delusion in that tweet about Imperator's status at launch that is... impressive. johan thinks about these games in terms of mechanics. imperator's failings were largely of tone - it just didn't feel like a game where you were playing as an ancient polity. that's what the vague feeling of "this isn't quite right" was that a lot of people had at launch. eu and especially ck feel meticulously researched even when they're obviously not simulating history down to the finest detail and abstracting a lot away, imperator retained that feeling that eu:rome had where it just didn't seem like paradox was employing anyone who gave a poo poo about anything before charlemagne the mechanics were mostly only bad in the sense that they often didn't support the theme of the game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 21:35
|
|
|
His argument that CK3 needs to be more complex and not a copy of CK2... is that Imperator was very complex and was received badly? Arguing that Imperator had more complexity/content on release really just showcases the disconnect between his vision and what other people saw in the game. Complexity and content amount mean little compared to how fun a game is or how well it's presented.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 21:37
|
|
|
"complexity" and "features" aren't some RPG stat you can assign to your video game. People like games because they are good, and fun to play. It doesn't matter how much poo poo you pile onto your game, if the core design isn't great or the tone isn't compelling or the setting isn't interesting none of that poo poo matters. This isn't some "video game tycoon" game where you play the game developer and assign stats to projects to find the best combination for sales. "hmm my last product had a complexity rating of 3 and a budget of 10 and sold 500k units, but this project had a complexity rating of 5 and a budget of 15 yet only sold 300k units, this makes no sense and is not fair!!!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 21:56
|
|
|
"Too simple" and "Not enough content" was exactly what people complained about.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2019 22:37
|
|
|
ilitarist posted:"Too simple" and "Not enough content" was exactly what people complained about. Because all the crap added to Imperator wasn't actually engaging. You could click on plenty of things, and in that sense Johan is correct in that it has a lot of content.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:16
|
|
|
Imperator’s dev blogs were a very accurate indication of what type of game it would be at launch. A bunch of percentage modifiers strung together unevenly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 00:52
|
|
|
Playing imperator made me just want to play eu4. It’s a lot better now for sure but like I still feel like the different eu4 countries feel real different. Like I’ll play Netherlands and then be like man really feel like a Muscovy game next While imperator I guess everyone feels kinda the same?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 01:38
|
|
|
imperator was perfectly positioned to be a game that everyone would hate for example: it had all the various positions in the roman government as their own characters. for the people who didn't care about this, this was a lot of poo poo to manage, and they hated it and wished it wasn't there. for the people who did care and were really into that idea, there were loads of inaccuracies and cut corners like only having one consul, so they also hated it, everyone hated it. this was true for every aspect of the game: if you don't care about a concept you will find yourself having to waste time on it because it exists as a system and will hate it, if you do care then you will find that it's modeled in a half-baked way that's either filled with glaring omissions or boils down to a series of incredibly dull stat modifiers and will hate it. They did everything, but to do everything they had to do it all poorly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 01:49
|
|
|
I would be really interested to know where Johan saw complexity in Imperator, and by what metric he measured it, because uhh
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 15:06
|
|
|
I can't see how Imperator wouldn't be considered the most complex Paradox game apart from maybe CK2 with all the expansions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 19:11
|
|
|
It may have theoretical complexity, which I’d argue against, but it doesn’t have true variety and depth, and most importantly it’s less complicated as a simulation than CK2, less complicated politically than EU4 and certainly less mechanically deep - even if it may have some breadth on that front - and god drat Vicky 2?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 20:26
|
|
|
it has pops and those pops have various stats to them and there's a bunch of units and mana so technically it has a lot going on except none of that matters whatsoever
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 21:46
|
|
|
I think CK2 is actually the most complicated Paradox game because of how distinct every government type plays
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 22:53
|
|
|
To be fair to Johan, he was talking about the release version of CK2 which was very much not complex. It was, however, a good game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 23:00
|
|
|
CK2 presumably has by far the most moving parts of any PDX game, but the player isn't actually asked to interact with more than a few of them at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 23:05
|
|
|
yikes! posted:To be fair to Johan, he was talking about the release version of CK2 which was very much not complex. It was, however, a good game. Base CK3 having so much playable gives me a lot of hope for the DLCs being good. Like base CK2 had to focus so much DLC on making this and that playable that the feudal christians and iqta muslims from the first release and first DLC are not just weak but straight up boring compared to what you can do as anyone else. There's so much flavour and unique poo poo to be had for the basic bitches of CK2. 1200s russians not being identical to 800s franks. A taifa in 1066 having more in common with 1066 Léon than with 1066 Seljuks. Making byzantines playable again. Hordes not being dumb. Paganism not being just way more powerful and fun than anything else. Non-vikings building river boats.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 23:11
|
|
|
as long as DLC isn't "here's more mana to keep track of" i'm all for it
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 23:14
|
|
|
Jeoh posted:as long as DLC isn't "here's more mana to keep track of" i'm all for it Stellaris is somewhat ominous here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 23:16
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Base CK3 having so much playable gives me a lot of hope for the DLCs being good. the risk, here, is repeating EU4, where every religion turned into escalating rats-nests of mechanics that have nothing to do with the religion's role in history or the actual practices of its adherents as bad as decadence was (and still is), the hajj and ramadan are still some of the best design in CK2, to my mind. they're still my favorite part of playing a muslim.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 01:18
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:It may have theoretical complexity, which I’d argue against, but it doesn’t have true variety and depth, and most importantly it’s less complicated as a simulation than CK2, less complicated politically than EU4 and certainly less mechanically deep - even if it may have some breadth on that front - and god drat Vicky 2? We were talking about complexity that you can at least attempt to measure while variety and depth are much more ephemeral things. And yes, its individual parts are less complex than any of the games you've mentioned but every other system would be more complex. E.g. economy is not as complex as in Victoria but it has much more of those little POPs cause every one of 10000 provinces has them; combat is more complex; government and characters are more complex, same for province development and diplomacy and so on. At least it was before all those updates.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 08:47
|
|
|
ilitarist posted:We were talking about complexity that you can at least attempt to measure while variety and depth are much more ephemeral things.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 09:49
|
|
|
ilitarist posted:We were talking about complexity that you can at least attempt to measure while variety and depth are much more ephemeral things. You can measure some things that factor INTO complexity, but there's no objective definition of "complex." A bunch of moving parts that all give a bunch of +1 bonus is to me less complex than fewer moving parts that actually interact with each other in ways more than just adding up the bonus.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 10:43
|
|
|
Yeah, Imperator systems were more interconnected too. Like war killing and displacing POPs on a large scale thus affecting economy, diplomacy affecting who you trade with and thus allowing for a variety of bonuses. Province geography combines with trade goods making every province very unique. Combination of available resources like steppe horses or elephant with your cultural traiditions means that culture, ideas, trade and military systems are tied to each other in a very complex way. Having 4 MP types meant that you have an interesting periods of selective abandunce and available resources affect your strategy as opposed of current system of you always getting richer. There is a lot of busywork, especially now with pop, economy and character systems turned into simulations meaning that the difference between a genius choice and doing nothing is barely noticeable. But the Johan's point is its more complex which it is. And also that people said that it wasn't complex enough which they do in this very thread. Johan realized that by complexity people mean a bunch of meaningless numbers grow and cancel each other out. So now you have dozens of types of buildings that give you 10% to one of three types of your income, and if you're used to having a joy from assigning a genius to some government position and getting a huge boon then too bad. Johann now turns this bonus into a 20 years progress bar cause he remembers how you complained about unrealistic instant conversion. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jan 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 11:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 16:01 |
|
|
I played Imperator after the 1.1 patch and it felt... weird. Like a lot of the systems in that game are optional. The thing I noticed the most was a lack of tooltips or otherwise adequate in-game explanations, I'd have to hunt down things in the interface myself. I didn't realise building roads was a thing you could do until much later, and the road connections in a province then have an effect on pop promotion speed; but the game won't tell you that, rather it will let you discover it yourself. If you never think to look too hard at your options in the army you can easily go through the entire game without realising they're there. Similarly with army tactics, the animal button, which looked to me like an on-off toggle because it had the appearance of a button and was described in similar terms as the generals' abilities in HoI4 in its tooltip; it took until I got curious enough to click it to discover that it's essentially a dropdown choice of passive bonii to troop types. The game is chokeful of things like that so I wouldn't begrudge anyone for thinking it didn't have mechanical complexity; it's there but you are rarely asked to interact with it. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, though the UI could afford to be a lot more intuitive.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2020 11:40
|
|
