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Serephina posted:Dwarves [with-a-v] have always been Scottish, and I have no idea who first did that; since it wasn't Tolkien for sure nor was it in early dwarf [but-with-an-f] films such as Snow White, Willow, etc. It probably wouldn't be too hard to find who first made Tolkien dwarves Scottish if you looked hard enough. Incidentally, Tolkien took a cue from Wagner and made his Dwarves Jewish. The Dwarvish language was explicitly modelled on Hebrew. The Times of Israel has a decent writeup.
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Dec 21, 2019 13:05
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I think it may have been Warhammer and of course Warcraft started out as a Warhammer RTS but then turned into Warhammer with the serial numbers filed off because off licensing issues.
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Dec 21, 2019 13:06
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FreudianSlippers posted:I think it may have been Warhammer and of course Warcraft started out as a Warhammer RTS but then turned into Warhammer with the serial numbers filed off because off licensing issues. It's also where Metzen obviously got the idea of corruption from, only he never really got how to use it as a plotdevice. So in Warhammer you just have people being dicks because they're dicks, and 'corruption' is some kind of cosmic horrorshow that sometimes reaches out. But in Warcraft, Starcraft or even Diablo it's always a crutch for poor writing and characterization. No one is ever really flawed in these games, they're just tragically corrupted or cartoonishly evil. It makes for really boring stories, and if you're being outwritten by Warhammer you've got a pretty big problem with your narrative.
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Dec 21, 2019 13:24
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Serephina posted:Dwarves [with-a-v] have always been Scottish, and I have no idea who first did that; since it wasn't Tolkien for sure nor was it in early dwarf [but-with-an-f] films such as Snow White, Willow, etc. It probably wouldn't be too hard to find who first made Tolkien dwarves Scottish if you looked hard enough. its an archaic form that tolkien intentionally used as a nerdy linguist its consistent, see? knife knives, soap soaves, bart barves, etc
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Dec 21, 2019 13:32
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I dunno I thought the Jamaican trolls were pretty funny because just what. It's not like they're all wearing rasta caps and dreads and smoking blunts, though if that's what the game jokes about at some point then I can see how it would be in poor taste.Screaming Idiot posted:Without getting into the diarrhea-flooded mire that is WoW lore, it is actually a pro-racism message in the end. "A place for everyone, and everyone in their place. When people go to different places with different people, war and hatred and endless violence occurs. It's also good this happens, because it keeps them strong, so when a different outside group comes they can be killed even faster and harder." Ah, yeah, that's no good, then. The only scenario that I can think of where you can get away with this sort of thing is if the races in question literally cannot survive outside of their designated place (e.g. a race of ice people who have to live in the frozen north, etc.), but if it's "just because" then that's pretty poor. All I know about WoW these days is the big tiddy edgy waifu is apparently the main character now and a lot of people aren't happy with that. Kaiser Mazoku has a new favorite as of 18:14 on Dec 21, 2019 |
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Dec 21, 2019 18:12
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queserasera posted:Never thought about it this way, interesting. That's one of the things about Twilight. There's a lot of potentially interesting things and ideas in the books that a competent writer could explore and do cool stuff with, but because this is Stephenie Meyer they're all ignored in the service of the dull dumb love story. You could probably get a decent series of books about what's-his-face the doctor vampire living through the centuries and getting called in to solve crimes or some poo poo.
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Dec 21, 2019 18:26
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:That's one of the things about Twilight. There's a lot of potentially interesting things and ideas in the books that a competent writer could explore and do cool stuff with, but because this is Stephenie Meyer they're all ignored in the service of the dull dumb love story. Just the concept of a vampire living through the centuries and having to adapt to changing societies and technologies while constantly changing his identity is interesting. You could still have love stories and even explore how he goes through numerous romances which all end in tragedy because he outlives them all.
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Dec 21, 2019 18:28
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:I dunno I thought the Jamaican trolls were pretty funny because just what. It's not like they're all wearing rasta caps and dreads and smoking blunts, though if that's what the game jokes about at some point then I can see how it would be in poor taste. The Tinkerbell movies have an interesting reason for the Ice fairies isolation - they had a moment in their past where one of them fell in love with a summer fairy, but he spent too long in weather that was too hot for him and his wings melted. In the text of the movie Tinkerbell figures out how an ice fairy can hang out in warm weather without this happening, but the fairy it happened to freaks out about it because "what if it fails? This is a dangerous move."
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Dec 21, 2019 18:31
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:
Mm yeah, give me more Angel please.
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Dec 21, 2019 18:57
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BioEnchanted posted:The Tinkerbell movies have an interesting reason for the Ice fairies isolation - they had a moment in their past where one of them fell in love with a summer fairy, but he spent too long in weather that was too hot for him and his wings melted. In the text of the movie Tinkerbell figures out how an ice fairy can hang out in warm weather without this happening, but the fairy it happened to freaks out about it because "what if it fails? This is a dangerous move." I'm glad I'm not the only grown-rear end adult who knows this fact off the top of their head
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Dec 21, 2019 19:37
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FreudianSlippers posted:I think it may have been Warhammer and of course Warcraft started out as a Warhammer RTS but then turned into Warhammer with the serial numbers filed off because off licensing issues. That's going in the book of grudges! Warhammer dwarfs aren't scottish, they're far northern Englishmen.
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Dec 21, 2019 23:20
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:
Dr. Acula?
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Dec 21, 2019 23:27
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Just the concept of a vampire living through the centuries and having to adapt to changing societies and technologies while constantly changing his identity is interesting. You could still have love stories and even explore how he goes through numerous romances which all end in tragedy because he outlives them all. Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's St Germain series is really good historical fiction about times and places that aren't really told about often in fiction. Her take on vampires also cleaves toward the Romanian myths. It's been a while since I've read them but I remember being fascinated when I did. Hopefully they've aged well. I remember one of the main character's love interests became a vampire in Roman times and lived up until 17th century in France, I think. I wish more books would explore the morality of immortality.
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Dec 21, 2019 23:41
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Just the concept of a vampire living through the centuries and having to adapt to changing societies and technologies while constantly changing his identity is interesting. You could still have love stories and even explore how he goes through numerous romances which all end in tragedy because he outlives them all. Sandman nails this with its various immortals. There's Hob Gadling, a peasant from the 14th century that Death makes immortal, and we see him through the ages as his fortunes rise and fall. There's also a brief appearance from a neolithic guy who is inexplicably immortal, and after he dies in a really dumb accident his son finds all the ancient loot and centuries of passports he had stashed away and has a massive freakout
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Dec 21, 2019 23:56
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I would love a competent writer doing a Volturi story. They’re canonically from Ancient Rome and other vampires are from Egypt, two settings that vampire fiction really never touches.
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Dec 21, 2019 23:59
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queserasera posted:Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's St Germain series is really good historical fiction about times and places that aren't really told about often in fiction. Her take on vampires also cleaves toward the Romanian myths. It's been a while since I've read them but I remember being fascinated when I did. Hopefully they've aged well. I remember one of the main character's love interests became a vampire in Roman times and lived up until 17th century in France, I think. 20th century. Yarbo features them in a short story. Edit: Cabin 33 xcheopis has a new favorite as of 00:07 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 00:05
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Just the concept of a vampire living through the centuries and having to adapt to changing societies and technologies while constantly changing his identity is interesting. You could still have love stories and even explore how he goes through numerous romances which all end in tragedy because he outlives them all. Strom Cuzewon posted:Sandman nails this with its various immortals. There's Hob Gadling, a peasant from the 14th century that Death makes immortal, and we see him through the ages as his fortunes rise and fall. There's also a brief appearance from a neolithic guy who is inexplicably immortal, and after he dies in a really dumb accident his son finds all the ancient loot and centuries of passports he had stashed away and has a massive freakout queserasera posted:Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's St Germain series is really good historical fiction about times and places that aren't really told about often in fiction. Her take on vampires also cleaves toward the Romanian myths. It's been a while since I've read them but I remember being fascinated when I did. Hopefully they've aged well. I remember one of the main character's love interests became a vampire in Roman times and lived up until 17th century in France, I think. Anne Rice wrote a whole series for y'all.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:07
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there wolf posted:Anne Rice wrote a whole series for y'all. Yarbo is better than Rice.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:08
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My not-so-secret desire was for a Twilight spinoff focused on Vampire Doctor Dude (Carlin? Carlisle?) and Mustache Dad solving murders together in a sleepy town. I think its because they were the only two actors in the film who had any chemistry with each other.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:19
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there wolf posted:Anne Rice wrote a whole series for y'all. No she didn’t.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:36
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chitoryu12 posted:I would love a competent writer doing a Volturi story. They’re canonically from Ancient Rome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUhVCoTsBaM chitoryu12 posted:and other vampires are from Egypt, two settings that vampire fiction really never touches.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:50
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there wolf posted:Anne Rice wrote a whole series for y'all. Anne Rice's setting is kind of weird because she makes it so that there are almost no vampires from pre-1700s. She has a thing where every vampire is connected to the first vampire and someone tried to kill the first vampire by putting her out in the sun and instead of killing her it killed almost every single other vampire.
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Dec 22, 2019 01:04
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muscles like this! posted:Anne Rice's setting is kind of weird because she makes it so that there are almost no vampires from pre-1700s. She has a thing where every vampire is connected to the first vampire and someone tried to kill the first vampire by putting her out in the sun and instead of killing her it killed almost every single other vampire. It is indeed very weird and also not the best writing, so I'm not really suggesting everyone go read the Chronicles. Just that Rice had a Tolkien-esque impact on urban fantasy and the modern concept of the Vampire, so odds are any given 'Twilight but better' scenario already exists in the countless other works inspired by Rice.
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Dec 22, 2019 01:41
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I like Interview well enough. And then The Vampire Lestat was okay enough for "Louis is a lying liar who lies, here's what really happened!" from an equally unreliable narrator. But then the rest was just all on board with Lestat being the bestest around, isn't he just great, and became kinda boring.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:19
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The Vampire Lestat was pretty stupid for how much it just straight up retcons everything from the first book just because fans liked Lestat better than Louis.
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Dec 22, 2019 03:20
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there wolf posted:It is indeed very weird and also not the best writing, so I'm not really suggesting everyone go read the Chronicles. Just that Rice had a Tolkien-esque impact on urban fantasy and the modern concept of the Vampire, so odds are any given 'Twilight but better' scenario already exists in the countless other works inspired by Rice. Yarbro and Rice are contemporaries. I like Kim Newman’s Dracula books a lot, especially The Bloody Red Baron.
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Dec 22, 2019 05:03
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AlbieQuirky posted:Yarbro and Rice are contemporaries. Interview came out two years before Hotel Transylvania. I did check before posting that claim about Rice's influence because I knew they came out around the same time.
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Dec 22, 2019 06:33
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Anne Rice is basically "what if Stephenie Meyer but GAY VAMPIRES" as far as I remember.
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Dec 22, 2019 07:01
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Stephenie Meyer is basically "what if Anne Rice but MORMON VAMPIRES" as far as I remember. fixed for accuracy as one came before the other
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Dec 22, 2019 07:31
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There is a /r/menwritingwomen (Patrick Rothfuss, Kingkiller Chronicles)  (John Varley, Please Enter)  (Dean Koontz, Twilight Eyes)  (Ned Vizzini, Kind of a Funny Story)  
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Dec 22, 2019 14:47
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Samuringa posted:There is a /r/menwritingwomen What's really telling in this one is how defensive Rothfuss is about it. He knows drat well how sexist it is, but he is too in love with it to change it and instead tries to insult the reader preemptively.
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Dec 22, 2019 16:47
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Screaming Idiot posted:fixed for accuracy as one came before the other I was speaking in terms of quality and subject, not which came first.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:48
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 Does Dean Koontz need a STD test? Semen should not burn.Seriously though, has it ever occurred to these guys to just ask a woman for input or comment?
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Dec 22, 2019 18:59
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Samuringa posted:
Thanks, this makes me call even more for the death of the white man.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:18
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Ibblebibble posted:Thanks, this makes me call even more for the death of the white man. A sad but inevitable call.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:30
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Varley also made a big chart about how his centaur aliens that speak in music reproduce:
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Dec 22, 2019 21:39
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Dienes posted:What's really telling in this one is how defensive Rothfuss is about it. He knows drat well how sexist it is, but he is too in love with it to change it and instead tries to insult the reader preemptively. Hell, that entire arc just shows how incredibly infantile the whole book is when it comes to women. Early on Rothfuss gives Kvothe the one designated flaw that he's "useless with women", which mostly just meant that he didn't pick up on their signals when they inexplicably threw themselves at him. So what does he do to "cure" Kvothe of that flaw? Perhaps have him meet somebody, have a relationship, and grow as a person? Nah. Instead Kvothe goes into a forest, meets an Actual Sex Goddess, impresses her with how good at sex he is despite being a virgin, and learns how to be the best at sex. And that's it. He has sex once and after that he becomes Ladykiller incarnate, easily seducing just about every woman he wants, except for the designated love interest.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:47
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C.M. Kruger posted:Varley also made a big chart about how his centaur aliens that speak in music reproduce: The first one might win on the “grotesque racism” front, but this sure wins on the “why” front.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:58
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Labes for days posted:The first one might win on the “grotesque racism” front, but this sure wins on the “why” front. Well you see, SF is the literature of extrapolation, and once you create centaur aliens with a dick and vag in the back and either a dick or a vag in front you naturally have to extrapolate all their possible reproductive combos. That's SCIENCE. You would be failing the ethos of SF if you didn't get that poo poo properly tabulated. And published. :shoots self:
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Dec 22, 2019 22:50
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Anne Rice is basically "what if Stephenie Meyer but GAY VAMPIRES" as far as I remember. Not really. Rice built a pretty complete world with a ton of lore explaining everything you could possibly want to know about her vampires. The thing that struck me most about Meyer, and always comes to mind when people talk about how the books could be better, is the total lack of interest in really expanding the story beyond the two characters falling in love and Bella's fairytale ending. As I've said, I don't really like Rice that much but Twilight is such a poor copy that it makes me appreciate her work a little more.
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Dec 23, 2019 00:16
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