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ONE YEAR LATER posted:I'm watching the last episode right now and I have two questions. To the first: it's a dumb idea the show cooked up to emphasize the collective fanaticism of Nilfgaard. To the latter: they're absolutely not okay with Fringilla going psycho like this but nobody ever expected Nilfgaard to rise beyond a regional power. The brotherhood (or conclave) of mages care more about maintaining their own power and authority than they do about the wellbeing of the kingdoms they advise. By the time the main Witcher books happen, the mages and sorceresses are in a bind since they're losing influence as monarchs get fed up with their endless scheming. They mirror the downfall of the Witchers; as time passes the regular people find that they don't need monster hunters or magical advisors to solve problems to which they've developed modern solutions. Sodden Hill was as much a means of protecting themselves as it was protecting the northern realms. The sorceresses like their privilege and Nilfgaard threatens their comfy status quo even as magic falls into decline. Later characters like Philippa Eilhart and Silé de Taansarville take the sorceresses' need for control to even further extremes as they become more desperate. They're a bunch of hypocrites who claim to want to control chaos and keep balance but they're really struggling to stay relevant in a world that no longer needs them. Magic is so rare that they'd throw everyone else away if it meant protecting another mage.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:33
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can someone who remembers more about this explain the difference between druids and mages? is it just that the latter do like formal magical training while druids are hedge wizards? or is it a more d&d thing where they're doing a different type of magic altogether
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Dec 22, 2019 18:37
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Nilfgaard aren't the only ones conscripting mages and are probably more merciful about it than the Brotherhood. I'd rather just die summoning a giant fireball than get kidnapped and spend the rest of my life as an eel.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:38
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eke out posted:can someone who remembers more about this explain the difference between druids and mages? Druids are a separate and far older fraternity of magic users than the Brotherhood or the Conclave. They can summon magic from nature (the same way that the mages and sorceresses take energy from other sources to power their magic) but they tend to be a lot more focused on the physical and spiritual health of the planet than on political scheming. They also still use animal sacrifices and portents to perceive the future. Mousesack is technically a druid since he's from Skellige originally and they tend to be throwbacks to an early medieval period rather than the setting's current "verging on an early renaissance" timeframe. The Brotherhood and the Conclave are more of a political entity than a truly separate form of magic users. They just see things in a more scientific sense than the more mystically minded Druids.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:43
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Eel life seems cool though, you get to hang out with your eel buds and do eel things. Eels are probably better off than like 95% of actual people in the witcher world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmZexg8sxyk DeadFatDuckFat fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 18:43
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Tehran 1979 posted:Nilfgaard aren't the only ones conscripting mages and are probably more merciful about it than the Brotherhood. Basically everyone is terrible. So Witcher neutrality and only trusting roach. Remind me, is the Witcher code an actual thing or something Geralt makes up as he goes along?
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Dec 22, 2019 18:43
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hobbesmaster posted:Basically everyone is terrible. So Witcher neutrality and only trusting roach. It's a thing Geralt makes up.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:47
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Proteus Jones posted:re eyes and dark veiny poo poo. That’s a result of using various concoctions and potions. Think of them like PEDs for fighting monsters and the supernatural, except they’re extremely toxic and if you take too much or the wrong combination they’ll kill you dead. As it is anyone without a Witcher’s mutations will be straight up killed painfully if they take a Witcher potion. I kinda didn't like that Season 1 Geralt seemed to have only a single kind of potion, and it made him stronger or whatever, but then he also used what looked like the same potion to heal himself towards the end. I really want them to dedicate a scene or two to exploring the herb/potion lore in Season 2, with different potions having different effects. Even if it's something simple, like cat's eye letting him see better in the dark. Similarly, explaining the differences between the various witcher school fighting styles would make for some good scenes.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:Druids are a separate and far older fraternity of magic users than the Brotherhood or the Conclave. They can summon magic from nature (the same way that the mages and sorceresses take energy from other sources to power their magic) but they tend to be a lot more focused on the physical and spiritual health of the planet than on political scheming. They also still use animal sacrifices and portents to perceive the future. Mousesack is technically a druid since he's from Skellige originally and they tend to be throwbacks to an early medieval period rather than the setting's current "verging on an early renaissance" timeframe. okay, so they're like traditional fantasy druids in their more nature-centric philosophy, but aren't a different type of magic altogether. thanks!
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Dec 22, 2019 18:50
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enraged_camel posted:I kinda didn't like that Season 1 Geralt seemed to have only a single kind of potion, and it made him stronger or whatever, but then he also used what looked like the same potion to heal himself towards the end. I guess they can do more exposition when (third book/second season spoilers) Ciri is training in Kaen Mohren it would be a very natural place to explain how all that works.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:52
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enraged_camel posted:I kinda didn't like that Season 1 Geralt seemed to have only a single kind of potion, and it made him stronger or whatever, but then he also used what looked like the same potion to heal himself towards the end. Episode 3 was a missed opportunity to see more of that, and the stuff with the magic school was a missed chance to explain a little bit more of wtf was going on with politics since country bumpkin girls probably needed to have that poo poo explained to them for their future jobs anyways.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:55
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Show started fun and by the end of season 1 they've made it clear no more fun, just glacial plot pacing based on game of thrones storytelling crud.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:58
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eke out posted:okay, so they're like traditional fantasy druids in their more nature-centric philosophy, but aren't a different type of magic altogether. thanks! Pretty much. All magic in the Witcher world comes from the same place. This isn't a spoiler since it's kind of common knowledge to smart people on the show, but thousands of years in the past an event called The Conjunction of the Spheres happened. Witcher works on multiverse theory, and this conjunction was a collision of multiple spheres passing in between each other, depositing creatures from different dimensions onto The Continent as well as ripping open spacetime fissures that allow Chaos/The Power/The Force/Primordial Energy or whatever you want to call it to seep into the world. Chaos manifests itself in certain things that are attuned to it, most often monsters or sentient beings. There are also people who become known as Sources, which are people of immense magical potential due to the conspiring nature of Destiny and a lineage passed down over several generations from an Elf named Larra Dorren and her human lover, Cregennan of Lod. Sources are essentially untapped conduits of magic with near infinite capabilities that are extremely hard to control, but when they are discovered you get assholes like the Brotherhood or dickhead monarchs rushing to try and control and influence the Sources for their own ends.
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Dec 22, 2019 19:01
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Show started fun and by the end of season 1 they've made it clear no more fun, just glacial plot pacing based on game of thrones storytelling crud. Whatever. Game of Thrones was exactly the same. Lots of people complained about how there were too many characters/places/whatever and that it was hard to keep track. It ended up becoming the most successful TV adaptation by a large margin. That's not to say TW S1 is great (definitely has issues with chronological story-telling order) but for a first season it's loving amazing.
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Dec 22, 2019 19:01
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enraged_camel posted:Whatever. Game of Thrones was exactly the same. Lots of people complained about how there were too many characters/places/whatever and that it was hard to keep track. It ended up becoming the most successful TV adaptation by a large margin. Sorry they've burned through the fun cool stories of witcher having wacky adventures with his bard friend and banging a witch. Now it's all about an evil army and magic girl and destiny. Enjoy 5 seasons of them slowly clawing through stopping the bad guy and randomly splitting up the characters so they can squeeze a few more episodes out.
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Dec 22, 2019 19:07
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Arcsquad12 posted:Pretty much. All magic in the Witcher world comes from the same place. This isn't a spoiler since it's kind of common knowledge to smart people on the show, but thousands of years in the past an event called The Conjunction of the Spheres happened. Witcher works on multiverse theory, and this conjunction was a collision of multiple spheres passing in between each other, depositing creatures from different dimensions onto The Continent as well as ripping open spacetime fissures that allow Chaos/The Power/The Force/Primordial Energy or whatever you want to call it to seep into the world. Chaos manifests itself in certain things that are attuned to it, most often monsters or sentient beings. There are also people who become known as Sources, which are people of immense magical potential due to the conspiring nature of Destiny and a lineage passed down over several generations from an Elf named Larra Dorren and her human lover, Cregennan of Lod. Conjunction was only 1500 years before the novels, wasn't it?
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Dec 22, 2019 19:08
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Sorry they've burned through the fun cool stories of witcher having wacky adventures with his bard friend and banging a witch. Now it's all about an evil army and magic girl and destiny. Enjoy 5 seasons of them slowly clawing through stopping the bad guy and randomly splitting up the characters so they can squeeze a few more episodes out. ok boomer
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Dec 22, 2019 19:09
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enraged_camel posted:Conjunction was only 1500 years before the novels, wasn't it? Something like that. It was near enough to the current time that people still know what it is in the same way we kinda know what happened 1500 years ago. It's honestly refreshing that it's not something like Warhammer 40K where people remember 10,000 year old history or Game of Thrones with its 8000 year old wall but people still remember The Others and the Wights. 1500 years is still a ridiculously long time to the average person, but not so far back that we'd forget everything that happened during that period. EDIT: There were some smaller conjunctions as well, right? Nobody is really native to the Witcher World (except maybe the Vran or the Cthulu people?) and other sentient species arrived at different times. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 19:11
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enraged_camel posted:ok boomer You've been on this site as long as I have, ya dork.
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Dec 22, 2019 19:11
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I’m aware of the Witcher games but I’ve never played them, and I didn’t even know the books existed until a couple months ago. I really liked this season. It’s not perfect, but I think it succeeds in what it’s going for. Some general thoughts: They way they handled the timeline, I think I spoiled myself by starting to read this thread before ep4 which is when it became obvious to me. It was never confusing, but mentions of things that seemed incongruous were momentarily disorienting. (Most viewers probably wouldn’t notice). Ultimately, I think the season would have been better served with a more linear narrative. In terms of Yen, I couldn’t disagree more with comments that they should’ve introduced her as a mage first and then done her origin. You think that gives her context and yes it does, but you then completely lose experiencing her struggle alongside her, not knowing what the future will bring. I thought she and Henry Cahill had great chemistry. Agree that Renfri was great. Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 19:40
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Arcsquad12 posted:Something like that. It was near enough to the current time that people still know what it is in the same way we kinda know what happened 1500 years ago. To be fair, very little is known about things before 4000 years ago in the 40K setting. Not much beyond the mytho-historic events of the founding of the Imperium survive.
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Dec 22, 2019 19:47
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Arcsquad12 posted:Something like that. It was near enough to the current time that people still know what it is in the same way we kinda know what happened 1500 years ago. Dont know what the show will make of it but according to books, dwarves were the ultimate natives, than elves came from other worlds than humans on 5 ships that founded original 4 human kingdoms. It is never explained where humans came from. With elves its easier, they are supposedly on perpetual escape from white frost. Also its quite interesting how otherwordly elves saw what happened to their cousins here, so it is a standing order to plain exterminate humans on sight. Ciri on her world hopping tour saw fields of human bones. Also, elves did not arrive through conjunction. They have elven seers who can visit other planets, previously mentioned Lara Dorren was one of them and Ciri is her descendant, inherited her powers. Sekenr fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 19:52
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Yeah spoiler some of that at least.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:09
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Yeah that is major spoilers.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:12
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Show started fun and by the end of season 1 they've made it clear no more fun, just glacial plot pacing based on game of thrones storytelling crud. Wait, it gets slower? Yikes.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:20
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gently caress, sorry about that. I'm kind of used to posting in Witcher 3 thread and its so old nobody cares about spoilers anymore.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:21
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The extreme magic/technological disparities in the Witcher that only get more extreme as you realize that space travel is not only possible but routine for a select few characters is less astonishing when you remember the Indian Space Agency used a ox-cart to deliver a satellite to one of its fabrication facilities.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:26
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:I'm watching the last episode right now and I have two questions. Both of those questions are answered by the showrunner having a dumb idea and no one telling her no. In the books if a sorceress went rogue like that she'd be clapped in dimeritium irons faster than you could blink and brought to task, but for whatever reason in this show a neophyte mage who was shown to be mediocre with her skills somehow just runs amok, using forbidden (in the show) magic and whatever else. Hell in the books they even captured and imprisoned Yennefer for defying them about Ciri, though admittedly that was the lodge and not the brotherhood. eke out posted:can someone who remembers more about this explain the difference between druids and mages? In witcher-land there is just magic, and how people access it is different, is all. Whereas magery is more like a science, some people of faith like druids and the priestesses are able to do tap into it, but in a much more... foo-fooey way? Like praying and having a prophetic dream as opposed to whipping out a fireball. eke out posted:they never even explain what The White Flame is in this season, right? Tehran 1979 posted:Nope. No idea what the White Flame is at this point. White flame: The 'white flame' refers to 'the white flame who dances on the barrows of his enemies' which is the ... I guess title? Nickname? of the new emperor of Nilfgaard, Emhyr. Turning it into a weird, apparently religious, thing is the dumbest poo poo. It's enough that he is expansionist and ruthless (while not being what one would call evil), without making all of his subjects fanatics. Like that one soldier that starts spouting off a prayer like he's a loving mad max war-boy. Cahir: They whiffed this hard on Cahir too. His whole deal is that he was a very young up and comer, and he ALMOST captured Ciri during the sacking of Cintra. Unfortunately failure is not well regarded by Emhyr so he harshly rebukes him and pretty much gives him a 'find her or you die' ultimatum, whereupon Cahir begins his pursuit. The thing is though he isn't evil by any stretch of the imagination, he's just doing his duty to his country. It gives a good insight into both Emhyr AND Cahir for this to occur. Instead we never see or hear of the emperor outside of a single throwaway line that mentions his name, and Cahir is turned into an evil charicature. What's extra weird is he even gives a little speech to the doppler (when the doppler is disguised) about how he didn't wanna hurt anyone or whatever, but then they immediately ruin this characterization by having him ruthlessly murder everyone in the tavern?? It's loving bizarre. Goddamn I'm still mad about it.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:39
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Kaedric posted:Season of Storms shows that the north engages in this too. After the Nilfgaardians have moved into the northern territories, the northern kings hire mercs to move the border bit by bit (literally, with signposts), and carted in peasants and levied taxes on the inhabitants. Everyone sucks! I would never say the northerners don't suck, too, But again, that's fairly "normal" for these things. Yeah, there's always border skirmishes and competition for the marginal land. I'm not defending it. But if Nilfgaard had taken the area, they wouldn't just be bringing in colonists to stabilize their rule, they'd be ethnically cleansing the area via mass enslavement. Given the history of slave cultures, that means men are sent to be worked to death in the mines over about 2 years, and women are eternally forced into sexual bondage as domestic slaves. Feudalism is no basket of roses, but I'd take it over chattel slavery.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:45
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Sekenr posted:Dont know what the show will make of it but according to books, dwarves were the ultimate natives, than elves came from other worlds than humans on 5 ships that founded original 4 human kingdoms.
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Dec 22, 2019 20:54
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Maybe they didn't show Emhyr because Charles Dance was busy. 
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Dec 22, 2019 21:00
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Pyromancer posted:Gnomes lived there before dwarves arrived, but they got along, unlike elves and humans who immediately tried to kill the previous inhabitants. Humans didn't immediately start killing. I think the tale or Lara Dorren and whatshisname the human lover is the tale of end of coexistance and beginning of real feud.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:03
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Kaedric posted:White flame: The 'white flame' refers to 'the white flame who dances on the barrows of his enemies' which is the ... I guess title? Nickname? of the new emperor of Nilfgaard, Emhyr. Turning it into a weird, apparently religious, thing is the dumbest poo poo. It's enough that he is expansionist and ruthless (while not being what one would call evil), without making all of his subjects fanatics. Like that one soldier that starts spouting off a prayer like he's a loving mad max war-boy. The more people talk about these kinds of changes and being half way done with the first book, is there an actual change in the show that was better? Show is seeming like even more of a mess the more I find out about it. Also going to ask again since I can't find a thread in the Book Barn, why did Geralt bite the striga? He was asked at the end of the first chapter and it wasn't answered. He bit her in the show too and at the time I just filed it under 'well that was weird but ok'.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:27
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Arglebargle III posted:The extreme magic/technological disparities in the Witcher that only get more extreme as you realize that space travel is not only possible but routine for a select few characters is less astonishing when you remember the Indian Space Agency used a ox-cart to deliver a satellite to one of its fabrication facilities. it's not space travel between planets, though. it's travel between multiverses.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:27
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Tehran 1979 posted:The more people talk about these kinds of changes and being half way done with the first book, is there an actual change in the show that was better? Show is seeming like even more of a mess the more I find out about it. I think Sapkowski was just poking fun at the whoever fights monsters kind of becomes a monster thing.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:37
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I wasn't watching the scene closely, but I thought he bit the Striga (well, what used to be a Striga) just in self-defense?
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Dec 22, 2019 21:39
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I have not played the games or read the books, so my opinions are of the show only. The first episode was slow, but liked it enough to keep going. Wasn't aware of the different times lines until Ep. 3 when Foltest is at the party as a kid. I don't have any issues with it, once I was aware, it was easy to keep up with each. Jaskier was annoying at first, but grew on me during Ep. 4. I'm fine with the Cavill's choice on his voice, but I have to watch the show with subtitles cause my ears suck. Also, it helps with keeping up with so many different names of things. I really liked the series, but I have some issues with Ep. 8. So much of the battle doesn't make sense to me. Are these peasants shooting the bottles with arrows to blow them up? Is it explained where is Fringilla getting all these disposable mages? If so, I missed it. Same with Vilefortz turn. Seemed to come out of no where. Also, as someone who has no interaction with the source material or game, I'm really glad they didn't exposition everything to me. I'm okay with not knowing the entire history from the onset and just learning as the story plays out. I'm looking forward to season 2.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:44
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Knight2m posted:Is it explained where is Fringilla getting all these disposable mages? If so, I missed it. yeah they talk about how Nilfgaard is conscripting every mage -- they're just weapons to be used like anyone else they might force into their army, and how they're treated at Sodden explains why Yen and Vilgefortz get the gently caress out quick from the dig site
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Dec 22, 2019 21:48
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enraged_camel posted:it's not space travel between planets, though. it's travel between multiverses. it's a distinction without much a of a difference since they explicitly visit other planets and not just alternate versions of their own
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Dec 22, 2019 21:55
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eke out posted:yeah they talk about how Nilfgaard is conscripting every mage -- they're just weapons to be used like anyone else they might force into their army, and how they're treated at Sodden explains why Yen and Vilgefortz get the gently caress out quick from the dig site also, it is explained that nilfgaardian mages don't have any reservations about practicing certain forbidden schools of magic, which presumably makes their spells a lot more powerful (and explains why the brotherhood mages are not prepared for stuff like mind control worms and demetrium dust)
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Dec 22, 2019 21:58
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