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purple death ray: Jul 28, 2007; me omw 2 steal ur girl

i'm not a cspam, a fyad, or trans, but the greatest sagas thread is down, i have no idea where to post and i am just kind of freaked out. i hate the rest of the internet, please don't make me finally get on discord after i've successfully avoided it for this long.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:07

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 22:03

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Rich if you're reading this the announcement is a good start and I appreciate the sentiment. I'm strongly urging you to
1) strictly enforce the fyad stuff
2) undo the bans from last night

I know the first one isn't something where we'll see immediate change but the second would go even further toward letting people know you care and are listening.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:09

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Anukis posted:

dad got peer pressured into being problematic again

oh. is this in cspam because qcs is closed?

there should probably be a general poster amnesty at this point

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:09

Gomi Day: Nov 15, 2007; Trust me, Bill. Large spectacles lend distinction to any countenance, as I have reason to know.; Plaster Town Cop

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Hi, Lowtax,

On the one hand you have rapidly growing communities with ridiculously high engagement that are mutually supportive and actively effecting social change (and spending a bunch of money on patreon, avatars, accounts, buying 13 vanity cspam avatar gangtags or whatever) and on the other hand you have a has-been forum that, last time it was open, was full of slurs (which historically are the most effective thing on this loving planet for driving away paying customers, which is why every business that isn't Paul's Racist Cakeshop will eightysix you for hatespeech) which averages 25 people viewing it. One is an actually growing part of your website and the other is literally just a few forgotten about browser tabs that are still viewing fyad

Over the years, as ~problematic~ as SA's culture has been, it's always been on the cultural vanguard and frankly pioneered some more aggressive moderation than you'd find almost anywhere else and while it wasn't perfect, SA phased out homophobic and racial slurs almost half a decade before that became a mainstream position in internet communities. Now we're at the next era of that where it's clear that no one really wants to keep a bunch of weird transphobic losers around, but they also refuse to go voluntarily. While SA is ahead of the curve generally at affording trans members of the community some basic protections and respect (which is pretty sad given all the poo poo still regularly heaped upon them here), all the pushback is just a natural side effect of trying to move any community forward. Some percentage of people are change averse assholes and all you can do is prune them off and move on with what will bear fruit. Also of note: SA is a very queer space, far more so than the handful of people who put their identities out there would suggest. It's why the QCS shitshow threads ended up with the same couple dozen people posting bigoted poo poo and then 500 unique people tag teaming in to dog pile them.

At the end of the day, most of us who have been here a long time and care about this site want it to be of a standard where we can mention it to someone irl or, god forbid, link someone one of the funny or informative threads this site has produced and not have to worry about them stumbling onto the SA equivalent of some broom closet full of incel weirdos.

Most of all we just want people to feel safe here regardless of how they identify because that's just the absolute bare minimum that we owe everyone. If enforcing this means banning people who told a funny joke in 2006 then that's a sacrifice that us people of SA seem wholeheartedly willing to make.

Lastly, despite your run ins with some trans people doing the bad cop role of being tireless advocates for trans rights and representation (which I guarantee you they find every bit as exhausting and challenging as you do), trans people are a really loving easy group to please. You throw them a few breadcrumbs of basic decency and minimally looking out for them and lending your ear when a bunch of them tell you someone is obviously being transphobic because they might spot things others do not and they'll appreciate you genuinely. Or given how busy you are lately, make sure there are people on staff who are specifically willing to hear their concerns if you can't personally be available. Just do the right thing, prune the diseased wood. SA isn't actually doomed to be some dying internet forum

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:10

Lowtax: Nov 16, 1999; by Skyl3lazer

oscarthewilde posted:

loving these levelheaded totally not edgy transphobic nazis in the youtube comments. and i thought fyad was supposed to be ironic?

Those were not FYAD people. Those were banned, offsite people, who have never been on the livestream before. I have deleted all the transphobic posts.

I posted a new rule up top. I really hope this will appease people, instead of somehow backfiring on me. If FYAD tries to skirt around it by dogwhistling, they will be banned. Is this an acceptable compromise?

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:10

Tashilicious: Jul 17, 2016; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Lowtax posted:

Those were not FYAD people. Those were banned, offsite people, who have never been on the livestream before.

I posted a new rule up top. I really hope this will appease people, instead of somehow backfiring on me. If FYAD tries to skirt around it by dogwhistling, they will be banned. Is this an acceptable compromise?

It is a bare beginning in all honesty. There are a lot of matters around this situation that still need to be addressed. Urgently.

Like opening QCS back up and making sure it is loving moderated properly.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:11

small ghost: Jan 30, 2013

purple death ray posted:

i'm not a cspam, a fyad, or trans, but the greatest sagas thread is down, i have no idea where to post and i am just kind of freaked out. i hate the rest of the internet, please don't make me finally get on discord after i've successfully avoided it for this long.

iffy on one out of three but same.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:11

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Lowtax posted:

Those were not FYAD people. Those were banned, offsite people, who have never been on the livestream before.

I posted a new rule up top. I really hope this will appease people, instead of somehow backfiring on me. If FYAD tries to skirt around it by dogwhistling, they will be banned. Is this an acceptable compromise?

It's a good start, like I said. I'm concerned about who is going to enforce it though, considering the fyad regulars surely can't be trusted to. I also think you should overturn the bans last night as a sign of goodwill, it would let off a lot of the pressure of this whole thing.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:12

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Lowtax posted:

Those were not FYAD people. Those were banned, offsite people, who have never been on the livestream before. I have deleted all the transphobic posts.

I posted a new rule up top. I really hope this will appease people, instead of somehow backfiring on me. If FYAD tries to skirt around it by dogwhistling, they will be banned. Is this an acceptable compromise?

looks like a good start, best of luck figuring stuff out with the admin team, this seems like a big mess

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:12

Admiral Joeslop: Jul 8, 2010

Lowtax posted:

Those were not FYAD people. Those were banned, offsite people, who have never been on the livestream before. I have deleted all the transphobic posts.

I posted a new rule up top. I really hope this will appease people, instead of somehow backfiring on me. If FYAD tries to skirt around it by dogwhistling, they will be banned. Is this an acceptable compromise?

Depends on if they're actually banned or everything gets ignored like it has been.

Also unban everyone you banned last night.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:13

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

purple death ray posted:

i'm not a cspam, a fyad, or trans, but the greatest sagas thread is down, i have no idea where to post and i am just kind of freaked out. i hate the rest of the internet, please don't make me finally get on discord after i've successfully avoided it for this long.

Pastry of the Year is a loving coward who shuts things down when the trans posters start getting too uppity.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:14

Lowtax: Nov 16, 1999; by Skyl3lazer

Tashilicious posted:

It is a bare beginning in all honesty. There are a lot of matters around this situation that still need to be addressed. Urgently.

Like opening QCS back up and making sure it is loving moderated properly.

Yes I know, I was absolutely thrown into this position with no warning or backstory about QCS or CSPAM / D&D, FYAD / whatever. Everybody was just telling me "there's a big situation on the forums and you have to deal with it" out of the blue. I'm absolutely trying to address things as fast as I can. But last time I attempted to address things urgently, it ended up in this mess. I have people telling me to address things immediately, and I have other people saying to take it slow and listen to people and lurk and whatever, So it's, uh, pretty difficult for me to appease both groups.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:16

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Tashilicious posted:

It is a bare beginning in all honesty. There are a lot of matters around this situation that still need to be addressed. Urgently.

Like opening QCS back up and making sure it is loving moderated properly.

Yeah pretty much all the drama that exploded on like three different forums in the past week or so wouldn't have been nearly bad if the first thing that happened hadn't been a tacit admission that the moderation feedback forum can't handle being used for its intended purpose / won't punish people for deliberately making it unreadable.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:16

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

Lowtax posted:

Yes I know, I was absolutely thrown into this position with no warning or backstory about QCS or CSPAM / D&D, FYAD / whatever. Everybody was just telling me "there's a big situation on the forums and you have to deal with it" out of the blue. I'm absolutely trying to address things as fast as I can. But last time I attempted to address things urgently, it ended up in this mess. I have people telling me to address things immediately, and I have other people saying to take it slow and listen to people and lurk and whatever, So it's, uh, pretty difficult for me to appease both groups.

I would definitely do the latter, people are always gonna want the immediate kneejerk reaction but as you say acting without getting the lay of the land is probably going to turn out worse

also everyone expects omniscience from admins for some reason, it's wild

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:17

A Lone Girl Flier: Sep 29, 2009; This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.

Reopening QCS in a way that all the mods and admins can moderate it seems sensible?

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:18

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Depends on if they're actually banned or everything gets ignored like it has been.

Also unban everyone you banned last night.

Basically if anyone says Barney it better be their Flintstones yaoi because otherwise it is a slur at one poster in particular.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:18

Tashilicious: Jul 17, 2016; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Lowtax posted:

Yes I know, I was absolutely thrown into this position with no warning or backstory about QCS or CSPAM / D&D, FYAD / whatever. Everybody was just telling me "there's a big situation on the forums and you have to deal with it" out of the blue. I'm absolutely trying to address things as fast as I can. But last time I attempted to address things urgently, it ended up in this mess. I have people telling me to address things immediately, and I have other people saying to take it slow and listen to people and lurk and whatever, So it's, uh, pretty difficult for me to appease both groups.

Instead of going in half-cocked without any idea, read what the hell happened. The QCS threads alone are a good source for the first week of bullshit. Blundering in while you *fully admit to having no idea what's going on or how to fix it* is just going to make poo poo constantly worse.
As you've experience directly now.

As for the "Those are fyad posters they are permabanned posters" thing.
The point of it is look at who is cheering you on with this. Look who is agreeing and egging and declaring themselves proud of those actions you took. Look at that, then look at yourself and wonder if you want them to agree with you even a little bit, and why you take actions that make them agree with you.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:19

Woof Blitzer: Dec 29, 2012; [-]

People take the internet too seriously. Log off and spend time with your family.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:19

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Lowtax posted:

Yes I know, I was absolutely thrown into this position with no warning or backstory about QCS or CSPAM / D&D, FYAD / whatever. Everybody was just telling me "there's a big situation on the forums and you have to deal with it" out of the blue. I'm absolutely trying to address things as fast as I can. But last time I attempted to address things urgently, it ended up in this mess. I have people telling me to address things immediately, and I have other people saying to take it slow and listen to people and lurk and whatever, So it's, uh, pretty difficult for me to appease both groups.

I think there's things you can and should do immediately, and things that you should talk to people about without random shitheads bombing in to distract from the topic. The former includes undoing the bans from last night as a show of good will and a willingness to listen to the community.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:20

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

Tashilicious posted:

Because this is about context.
This isn't a one off post by a poster. This is a culmination of a whole lot of words, bile, and anger. A whole lot of us have been staring down the barrel of abuse, harassment and mockery for 1) existing, and 2) taking public and visible action to change the culture of the forums to something less regressive.

You sent some PMs and made a few posts then continued to post in fyad.

We publicly blasted the bigotry on show, insisted something be done about it, collected our memberships in new threads and disparate offsites for security, continued to hammer the issue, kept being harassed and trolled for it, and kept it up. Publicly. Visibly. Out here for the world to see. To try and change the culture of the forums that being transphobic is acceptable.

Some people have only started recently, during the last month-six weeks. Some have been doing it a lot longer and have targets on their backs for it.

I don't engage in subforums that engage in bigotry. I avoided them, and then tried to get rid of it.
You continued to be in them.

pretty fair, easy to forget you basically have to pray to god you did the correct appeasement dance for rain to appear on a qcs thread.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:20

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Woof Blitzer posted:

People take the internet too seriously. Log off and spend time with your family.

And if you want to show the new rule is real probe this guy for doing the standard fyad "why do you care" thinf

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:21

Admiral Joeslop: Jul 8, 2010

That DarkTzintine guy was banned when someone discovered his off-site posts about wanting to rape lesbians to turn them straight.

Or maybe it was just a 30, I don't remember.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:21

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Woof Blitzer posted:

People take the internet too seriously. Log off and spend time with your family.

people not having (nearby) family or friends to spend time with and being geographically located where "going outside" presents a threat to themselves is why it actually is pretty important to take the internet somewhat seriously

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:21

Woof Blitzer: Dec 29, 2012; [-]

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

And if you want to show the new rule is real probe this guy for doing the standard fyad "why do you care" thinf

I never posted there. Get a hold of yourself.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:22

smarxist: Jul 26, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

Woof Blitzer posted:

People take the internet too seriously. Log off and spend time with your family.

gently caress off

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:22

Calibanibal: Aug 25, 2015

Woof Blitzer posted:

People take the internet too seriously. Log off and spend time with your family.

Delete this. Not all of us have family

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:22

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

I will not stand for this aggression

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:24

Zodium: Jun 19, 2004

Lowtax posted:

Yes I know, I was absolutely thrown into this position with no warning or backstory about QCS or CSPAM / D&D, FYAD / whatever. Everybody was just telling me "there's a big situation on the forums and you have to deal with it" out of the blue. I'm absolutely trying to address things as fast as I can. But last time I attempted to address things urgently, it ended up in this mess. I have people telling me to address things immediately, and I have other people saying to take it slow and listen to people and lurk and whatever, So it's, uh, pretty difficult for me to appease both groups.

uhhh i don't know what's going on but you're a good man tax, i have faith you'll do the right thing.

please don't make me regret this post, i don't post often nowadays

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:24

Stoner Sloth: Apr 2, 2019

Lowtax posted:

Those were not FYAD people. Those were banned, offsite people, who have never been on the livestream before. I have deleted all the transphobic posts.

I posted a new rule up top. I really hope this will appease people, instead of somehow backfiring on me. If FYAD tries to skirt around it by dogwhistling, they will be banned. Is this an acceptable compromise?

Can I repeat the suggestion that as a show of good faith that the posters handed 'livebans' are unbanned for now?

If, after reading up more thoroughly on what happened, you still think they should stand then ppl can always be banned again but in the meantime it might show that you're willing to listen as well as calm the situation for everyone a little hopefully until full solutions can be put in place?

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:25

DEEP STATE PLOT: Aug 13, 2008; Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!

Lowtax posted:

Yes I know, I was absolutely thrown into this position with no warning or backstory about QCS or CSPAM / D&D, FYAD / whatever. Everybody was just telling me "there's a big situation on the forums and you have to deal with it" out of the blue. I'm absolutely trying to address things as fast as I can. But last time I attempted to address things urgently, it ended up in this mess. I have people telling me to address things immediately, and I have other people saying to take it slow and listen to people and lurk and whatever, So it's, uh, pretty difficult for me to appease both groups.

i think if you want cspam to take your word that you are genuinely trying to address things correctly, you have to start by un-banning everyone you banned last night. that was not the thing to do and indisputably made everything way worse.

people love this website. they love this community. they don't want it to fall the gently caress apart. most people would be pretty forgiving of this whole mess if you un-banned the people you banned last night. it would not solve everything or even close to everything, but it would be a start at least and would make people believe you at your word that you are trying to do better.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:26

Pomp: Apr 3, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Admiral Joeslop posted:

That DarkTzintine guy was banned when someone discovered his off-site posts about wanting to rape lesbians to turn them straight.

Or maybe it was just a 30, I don't remember.

Wait what

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:27

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

listen to Nicheal or Lightning knight.

they are mods that know what is happening and at least CSPAM trusts them to represent them if you feel things are piling up, I think

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:27

Nichael: Mar 30, 2011

Lowtax posted:

Those were not FYAD people. Those were banned, offsite people, who have never been on the livestream before. I have deleted all the transphobic posts.

I posted a new rule up top. I really hope this will appease people, instead of somehow backfiring on me. If FYAD tries to skirt around it by dogwhistling, they will be banned. Is this an acceptable compromise?

No. Undo what was done last night. This is the most active and relevant part of the site, and your actions harmed it, as well as upset a lot of people needlessly.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:27

Chris James 2: Aug 9, 2012

Woof Blitzer posted:

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Thank you

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

i think if you want cspam to take your word that you are genuinely trying to address things correctly, you have to start by un-banning everyone you banned last night. that was not the thing to do and indisputably made everything way worse.

people love this website. they love this community. they don't want it to fall the gently caress apart. most people would be pretty forgiving of this whole mess if you un-banned the people you banned last night. it would not solve everything or even close to everything, but it would be a start at least and would make people believe you at your word that you are trying to do better.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:27

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

The livebans send the worst possible message. Undo them.

That is a very good first step.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:27

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Lowtax posted:

Yes I know, I was absolutely thrown into this position with no warning or backstory about QCS or CSPAM / D&D, FYAD / whatever. Everybody was just telling me "there's a big situation on the forums and you have to deal with it" out of the blue. I'm absolutely trying to address things as fast as I can. But last time I attempted to address things urgently, it ended up in this mess. I have people telling me to address things immediately, and I have other people saying to take it slow and listen to people and lurk and whatever, So it's, uh, pretty difficult for me to appease both groups.

I think we all want you to take things slower. The new rule is great, if it is enforced. The bigot brigade bans from last night were a bit hasty, especially since as you mentioned, you were thrust into it and couldn't catch up to see what people were yelling about. I would revert, catch up, take things slowly from there. No shame in that.

I hope you had a great rest.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:27

Nichael: Mar 30, 2011

CharlestheHammer posted:

listen to Nicheal or Lightning knight.

they are mods that know what is happening and at least CSPAM trusts them to represent them if you feel things are piling up, I think

I'm not a mod, they never modded me. Not that I particularly care, but maybe also listen to the forum when they ask for specific people to mod it, and other specific people to not mod it.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:28

Bro Dad: Mar 26, 2010

apropos to nothing posted:

yeah i know its just a 6er which isnt a big deal but seems like it could make someone who is afraid to post feel even worse. like if someone is saying theyre afraid to post i genuinely worry about their mental health. and yeah i see that they used a slur but the reality is that for many years and i dont remember when it was changed but that was what the trans thread was called in E/N i think. like people used it and some prolly still use it cause thats what the folks in the trans thread used to call the thread and also themselves.

It was called that in E/N because fyad people kept invading the thread and posting slurs to get some cred from their forum buddies

# ? Jan 1, 2020 16:28