|
Herstory Begins Now posted:Responding earnestly to cascadebeta's concerns would be extremely helpful as they're basically speaking on behalf of a lot of people and while they're probably kinda pissed at you, it doesn't really do any good to take it personally given that their concerns are entirely valid from what I've seen. When the forum is fundamentally autocratic and the owner and de facto main admin always has the last word then if there's something wrong with what's going on on the forum, they shouldn't be surprised when animosity against the forum is ultimately translated into animosity against them. We had real reasons to feel unsafe on the forum for many days and I'd love to be able to say this latest discourse filled me with optimism but for instance the fact my avatar has been changed to call me mentally unwell and misidentify me deliberately this morning is one of the many little things that add to a still pretty ugly picture.
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:53 |
|
|
razorrozar posted:you've been doing an excellent job moderating this thread and i appreciate you
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:50
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:at this point overt hostility doesn’t really accomplish much. if you feel like you can’t trust him right now that’s fine but pushing to get banned doesn’t really do anything Cascade has the right to be mad considering they're particularly being singled out for abuse in FYAD. The announcement should be a good first step, but it wasn't the first announcement made regarding this situation, Smythe made a similar "everything will be under control soon" general point stickied before stepping down, and Cascade got wrongfully banned in the midpoint between, all while FYAD made a meme out of harassing them Do I agree the anger should be entirely directed to Lowtax? No, and I don't think it is. I agree that anger is rational to feel about the situation at this point though, at least from their position WampaLord posted:We are not doing this poo poo here. Wampa you and Nichael and LightningKnight have been doing a particularly good job in the middle of all this, thank you sincerely
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:50
|
|
|
Chris James 2 posted:Cascade has the right to be mad considering they're particularly being singled out for abuse in FYAD. The announcement should be a good first step, but it wasn't the first announcement made regarding this situation, Smythe made a similar "everything will be under control soon" general point stickied before stepping down, and Cascade got wrongfully banned in the midpoint between, all while FYAD made a meme out of harassing them LightningKnight's name comes up constantly, if Smythe quit, he would probably be a good choice to admin and start fixing some of this poo poo. There are plenty of people who actually care and will put in the hours to do this, find them and promote them imo
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:51
|
|
|
Lowtax posted:Did you not see the part where I made an announcement saying FYAD is not allowed to rag on any other forums or threads? Of course not, because it doesn't fit your stupid loving narrative that I'm a bigot transphobe. If your whole purpose is to come in here and insult me when I'm actively listening and trying to work with everybody here, and your excuse is "YOU SHOULD'VE SOMEHOW KNOWN ABOUT THIS MONTHS AGO" when I was not on the forums and nobody, literally nobody, informed me of any QCS poo poo, then I'm seriously going to ban you again because you aren't contributing anything to what I'm actually trying to accomplish here. I would also like to point out that Cass was not only brutally harassed and gaslit for three days straight, but was further harassed directly constantly for an entire month with transphobic AVs and titles, a bran new slur making the rounds in fyad and KF literally based on her avatar, and constant and neverending implications she's just a hysteric crazy who needs to take her meds. For a month, Lowtax. I'd be ripping your face off if it happened to me, and if the roles were reversed and you were Lowtax on my message board and this happened to you, you'd be ripping my face off over it too. Rightfully so.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:52
|
|
|
if admin duties can crush the spirits of people like Smythe and FAU then maybe it's time to consider farming it out to some neutral third party that doesn't actively participate on the forums, like traumatized facebook content moderators that are already completely broken human beings
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:52
|
|
|
there just needs to be more staff in general, and a system in place to help keep rotating people through before they just burn out and ragequit the site, which seems to have been the case with like 3 admins in as many months here recently
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:55
|
|
|
razorrozar posted:you've been doing an excellent job moderating this thread and i appreciate you
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:55
|
|
|
Lowtax posted:I had zero idea what was going on weeks ago. I still don't loving completely know. So nobody deferred to me, because I didn't know what exactly was happening and I absolutely wouldn't give any advice if I knew the complete story and situation. Look, half the people in this thread are saying things should've been done immediately, half are saying I should've waited and talked to people and get familiar with all this pent up and complex drama. It's really a poo poo position I was dumped into. I think it's important to note that your admin staff put you in this poo poo position, because these problems have been brewing for weeks and their "response" has been to circle wagons, curtail almost all discussion of said problems, make new and exciting definitions for the word "doxxing", and basically treat the community with disdain
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:55
|
|
|
I used CascadeBeta as the example of someone vigorously advocating not just for their own interests but also for the interests of a lot of people who can't for whatever valid reasons advocate for themselves on purpose. That advocacy is gonna come hot. CascadeBeta is basically a union steward for trans goons right now fighting hard to get some poo poo done. You don't have to agree with CB about the solutions but listening to the underlying complaint and proposing alternatives and then listening to the replies to those and having a dialog is how poo poo can get resolved. Threatening to ban CB again is not gonna get poo poo resolved and will just keep the tensions high. CB can shitpost, that's all. Lowtax, you can ban people. There's an asymmetry of power here that makes it real lovely to start going "shut up or get banned." I know that it shouldn't be like that, because this is lovely forums drama, but for a lot of posters it's extremely real life and it's good to just kinda roll with that reality. It also means you'll have the support of the general posting body instead of opposition, which is a good thing for everyone. Keep talking to Zyla/Dickeye/Herstory/the mod team/etc. and don't get distracted. There's always an instinct to put down opposition hard, but this particular situation calls for a bit more restraint, and fortunately it's on a forum and not on the streets, so we can have that restraint Namaste, god bless
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
ah I didn’t know cascade was one of the posters specifically targeted, that makes sense
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
Minrad posted:there just needs to be more staff in general, and a system in place to help keep rotating people through before they just burn out and ragequit the site, which seems to have been the case with like 3 admins in as many months here recently We had a running joke about how FAU confuses people because goons are so used to admins burning out in a blaze of incredibly embarassing drama, and it turns out it was just delayed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
Lowtax genuine question, why did you go complaining to your livestream that everyone in the TGRS trans thread was a lost cause when they pushed back on you saying "SA has ALWAYS BEEN A HAVEN FOR MINORITIES" when their own personal history showed it wasn't? I'm not talking about the old front page articles, though I know there's more there to be found by other writers as it's been complained about before, I mean just the people saying "No man it hasn't." Maybe it changed when you stopped actively administrating but like I remember seeing heinous gross poo poo under the guise of jokes before I even came out just a few years ago in places like GBS and Games and ADTRW. Like the forum as a whole has gotten better and much better relatively recently, hell maybe you as a person have better like everyone else hopefully has over the last decade+, but it's absolutely ridiculous to state that it has always been, esp. to the people that are often the butt of those jokes.Do you not think that maybe statements like that might be why they were a little hostile or didn't take you at your word 100%? And going to antagonize them with a bunch of sycophants immediately afterword doesn't really inspire courage that you actually care or understand. I will say ty for unbanning people but that doesn't mean much if you don't understand why people felt aggrivated in the first place. EDIT: Oh from posts made while I typed this is seems you didn't know the extent to the bullshit that has been happening re: Trans posters/the community on the forum so that explains why you thought we were all just being mean for nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
Lowtax you said on stream last night that you understand that no one would choose to be transgender because it's an absolute hell in so many ways. If you can have that kind of understanding, I know that you can understand why there's people angry at you for what they've been put through by other members of your community that has been condoned through inaction.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:56
|
|
|
Lol that logikv9's and PartyPlaneJones's strategy of staying quiet and refusing to engage with posters until everyone forgot about them is actually working.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:57
|
|
|
Thanks everyone, like pretty much all of you I just want this weird unique online community to be a fun and safe place to post and hopefully we're in the process of working towards a better forums experience.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:57
|
|
|
And yeah, part of the disconnect is that the social context Lowtax (presumably, as an American over 30) is coming in from reads King Lear as a tragic hero, but the social context C-SPAM posters live in reads King Lear as a basket case who was a key part of the problem. A large part part of how we look at the world is based on judging absentee rulers extremely harshly even if they're personally just and make good decisions when the court eunuchs are sidelined, that's going to be hard to break through even after making an effort to communicate that the second part is true.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:58
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:Lol that logikv9's and PartyPlaneJones's strategy of staying quiet and refusing to engage with posters until everyone forgot about them is actually working. Oh, several people remember. Many people remember. They're just on a backburner.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:58
|
|
|
Hello. Im glad lowtax reversed the bans. As much as i think most of them arent good at posting they seem nice people. But can ppl please stop lying about how fyad egged lowtax on/doxxed people/post on kiwifarms? gently caress, more than 90% of the people being shitheads on this forum ppl accuse of being fyad and you can do userid:xxxx search on the closed fyad to find out thats not true. Like the ease with which this can be checked is what makes these accusations all the more baffling that theyre taken at face value. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:58
|
|
|
Scoops My Goops posted:I think it's important to note that your admin staff put you in this poo poo position, because these problems have been brewing for weeks and their "response" has been to circle wagons, curtail almost all discussion of said problems, make new and exciting definitions for the word "doxxing", and basically treat the community with disdain
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 17:59
|
|
|
Oh wow, more abusive AVs. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:00
|
|
|
CascadeBeta posted:You mean like the no bigotry rule that's been in FYAD since it's inception, allegedly? What about when QCS reopens, are they allowed to dogpile and use transphobic dogwhistles and transphobic bullshit against us when we take legitimate issue with the poo poo that goes on in that cesspool? We were dealing with poo poo for literal days, and you knew nothing except when you decided you had to come in like a shining loving knight on horseback into the trans thread. 1) the FYAD people who were involved in that were banned. Additionally, I have added to the announcement that FYAD poo poo stays in FYAD, and making GBS threads on any other people or threads in the forum is not allowed. 2) again, nobody told me anything like that was going on in QCS 3) I was not coming in like a "shining knight," I was coming into an openly hostile place and attempting to explain my decisions. Claiming I was trying to be a "shining knight" is absolutely insane, because I had read that thread and knew I was getting myself into a place where I was getting blamed for everything. If you're trying to give me legit feedback, honestly you can do that without personally attacking me. I understand you all are mad, but you're getting mad at the guy who hasn't been on the forums and has been dealing with some real heavy personal poo poo. It's not my goal to drive people off the site. It's not my goal to alienate minorities. That makes no sense from any standpoint. As for "getting the hell out," that's what led to all these problems to begin with; I had gotten the hell out and was not involved. Then I'm suddenly required to come in and diffuse a situation immediately. I personally would've rather stayed the hell out. However, staying out has now lead to all this, and all I'm trying to do is resolve poo poo to the best of my ability. I'm not going to read any thread where it's just extremely personal attacks against me on my own loving website, because the people dogpiling on me are doing absolutely nothing to further the conversation. If there was a problem months ago, I wish I could've been informed there was a problem months ago, so I could've worked on it. But it wasn't, which is why I'm now here typing a billion words,
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:00
|
|
|
Ahaha whoever made this avatar is very definitely not mad about Cass
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:00
|
|
|
Scoops My Goops posted:I think it's important to note that your admin staff put you in this poo poo position, because these problems have been brewing for weeks and their "response" has been to circle wagons, curtail almost all discussion of said problems, make new and exciting definitions for the word "doxxing", and basically treat the community with disdain
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:00
|
|
|
Tashilicious posted:I would also like to point out that Cass was not only brutally harassed and gaslit for three days straight, but was further harassed directly constantly for an entire month with transphobic AVs and titles, a bran new slur making the rounds in fyad and KF literally based on her avatar, and constant and neverending implications she's just a hysteric crazy who needs to take her meds. Yeah, given all of the entirely unjustified poo poo thrown their way, that was substantially more restrained than I would be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:01
|
|
|
ArfJason posted:Hello. Im glad lowtax reversed the bans. As much as i think most of them arent good at posting they seem nice people. But can ppl please stop lying about how fyad egged lowtax on/doxxed people/post on kiwifarms? gently caress, more than 90% of the people being shitheads on this forum ppl accuse of being fyad and you can do userid:xxxx search on the closed fyad to find out thats not true. Like the ease with which this can be checked is what makes these accusations all the more baffling that theyre taken at face value. The theory that FYAD somehow planned for all of this to happen specifically while Lowtax was dealing with family situations is also tenuous.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:01
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Ahaha whoever made this avatar is very definitely not mad about Cass Super not loving mad
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:01
|
|
|
I don't know what that avatar means and i don't want to but from what I understand it means that there is at least one (1) transphobe on this website who has very much not been banned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:02
|
|
|
Minrad posted:there just needs to be more staff in general, and a system in place to help keep rotating people through before they just burn out and ragequit the site, which seems to have been the case with like 3 admins in as many months here recently rotating adminship would be a good idea rotating mods around subforums as well would keep the likes of beer4~ from creating their own little hate enclaves or whatever they were doing
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:03
|
|
|
Lowtax posted:which is why I'm now here typing a billion words, The billion words are good billion words tho, for what it's worth gently caress I've been writing novels in this thread literally all year (lol), furthermore,,,
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:04
|
|
|
Lowtax posted:As I have repeatedly said, I was not involved with the forums when this poo poo went down and I had no idea, I was just given limited information and told that everybody was afraid to address the issue, because they knew they'd get dogpiled on. Scoops My Goops posted:I think it's important to note that your admin staff put you in this poo poo position
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
Custom avatars should really have an easy way to reveal who bought them, both for public shaming purposes and to encourage retaliation. Can the admin team even tell who bought them or do you have to manually piece together the information from web server access logs?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:I don't know what that avatar means and i don't want to but from what I understand it means that there is at least one (1) transphobe on this website who has very much not been banned. don't need an account to buy avs iirc
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
Lowtax posted:As for "getting the hell out," that's what led to all these problems to begin with; I had gotten the hell out and was not involved. Then I'm suddenly required to come in and diffuse a situation immediately. I personally would've rather stayed the hell out. However, staying out has now lead to all this, and all I'm trying to do is resolve poo poo to the best of my ability. I'm not going to read any thread where it's just extremely personal attacks against me on my own loving website, because the people dogpiling on me are doing absolutely nothing to further the conversation. If there was a problem months ago, I wish I could've been informed there was a problem months ago, so I could've worked on it. But it wasn't, which is why I'm now here typing a billion words, As long as you're the one our  are going to, you're absolutely not out, whether you're active or not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:rotating adminship would be a good idea I don't think most mods would be interested in modding forums they don't read
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:I don't know what that avatar means and i don't want to but from what I understand it means that there is at least one (1) transphobe on this website who has very much not been banned. So from my broken by twitter brain, it's an edit of someone drawing a 4chan/Alt Right Meme Ideal Trad Wife getting railed edited to be CascadeBeta (Or FYAD's namesake for it). It's very normal and deffo not weird at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:rotating adminship would be a good idea mods and admins are in a tough place because there's no pleasing everyone and a lot of times in conflicts they just have to pick a side and sometimes there are no "right" sides because the world is a lovely place that's not what's going on in this case of course but it happens I think there are like, software barriers to rotating mods and admins right now and I know Jeffrey is hard at work but radium code is the loving Lament Configuration as far as I can tell because everyone who has ever tried to look at it has gone insane in a few months
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
Tashilicious posted:I'd be ripping your face off if it happened to me, and if the roles were reversed and you were Lowtax on my message board and this happened to you, you'd be ripping my face off over it too. Rightfully so.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:The theory that FYAD somehow planned for all of this to happen specifically while Lowtax was dealing with family situations is also tenuous. As someone who's seen this go down elsewhere, I think it's a fair and safe assumption that a particular clique felt like now was their chance to spread their wings, and a lot of the general melee is over whether "the people most vocal in FYAD's hottest megathreads in November" counts as "FYAD, as a whole" or not. The discussion in this thread today, while it has its warts, is a necessary though not sufficient step toward making sure that it doesn't come true /pol/ style.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:53 |
|
|
Lowtax posted:I am listening, because people posting in this thread are conversing to me like normal human beings and we are able to interact without anybody posting personal attacks or insults except you. As I have repeatedly said, I was not involved with the forums when this poo poo went down and I had no idea, I was just given limited information and told that everybody was afraid to address the issue, because they knew they'd get dogpiled on. The talking to you are currently receiving is kid gloves. She was personally harassed for a month. Ongoing still. Harassed for a month and the admin/mod reaction has mostly been silence and shrugs. The posters may have been permad (some of them), but it wasn't everyone. It probably wasn't even those posters only accounts. Lots of shrugging and "Well Lowtax wants fyad to stay" and silence and whispered "We're trying but we're getting stonewalled by one person" and silence and silence and bans but silence. People are mad at how this was handled. Rightfully. You are the head of the website. You are, ultimately, responsible. If you cannot handle a tame browbeating by someone who's spend much much MUCH longer in the bigot and KF crosshairs, maybe you need to re-evaluate. Because right now all that's coming off is "Well sure you're mad, but what about *my* feelings". Which isn't conductive to anything productive, because it looks like you're dismissing valid and repeatedly backed up complains dismissively because we didn't kiss your ring. Cass is incredibly angry. At you. And at the site. She has every right and reason to be. You don't get to be mad that she's mad at you and yelling. This is your house. This is your responsibility. Grit your goddamn teeth and go "Okay, fine, I hosed up, you're right to be pissed and scream at me," and then pull your pants up and do better. If no one gave you information a month or more ago about how serious this is, maybe you need better admins or mods that can give you and honest and direct view of the problems. You also literally were in the middle of your amber alert, so people were, understandably, unwilling to pester you (well, most people).
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2020 18:09
|
|