Total Warhammer 2 - the thread is dead, long live the thread

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Twigand Berries: Sep 7, 2008

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Now that I have run out of steam in this Vortex Repanse game I'm thinking of trying out Mannfred again, but I would like to make sure I can confederate Vlad and Isabella. I know there is a mod that lets you confederate defeated LLs, but is there one that will open them both up to me if Vlad never recruits Isabella?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1418082981

# ? Jan 1, 2020 20:56

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 09:31

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

The Sartosan mod kicks a lot of rear end and it's really fun running around with half naked dwarf pirates and Norscans. I still have a few vampirate armies hanging around to cover my ends.

They're not so overpowered to trivialize the campaign especially once the unbreakable super alliance of Reikland, Curounne, Lothern and Karaz-a-Karak is finished dickstomping chaos and Naggarond.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 21:04

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

The table top caps mod really does help with being able to use white lions

# ? Jan 1, 2020 21:09

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Third World Reagan posted:

The table top caps mod really does help with being able to use white lions

in tabletop white lions and swordmasters took the same slots though.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 21:18

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

True but you don't need the other units as much since the enemy also has limits.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 21:22

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Twigand Berries posted:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1418082981

Thank you twig!

# ? Jan 1, 2020 21:34

Kalenden: Oct 30, 2012

MinisterSinister posted:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1892582971

This is what you're looking for. You can use it to smack a debuff on the Empire or just buff their enemies. The default settings seem to work best but you can gently caress with it to get a perfect balance.

Easiest starting faction in the first game is probably Dwarfs. A lot of people say Empire but their armies require more micro and are less conventional for an old school Total War player (although if you like Fall of the Samurai then these guys are your jam, as they basically play like that), where as Dwarfs are just maximum turtles with devastating artillery, so all you need to do is draw up a battle line and then plonk artillery behind it and you'll win most battles. Plus, Dwarfs don't have to gently caress around with magic, which is very micro-intensive.

If you want my advice, though, skip the first game entirely and buy Warhammer II, then install Mortal Empires. This gives you the combined campaign and is a lot more fun. The first game feels anemic and underdeveloped compare to Warhammer II and it is missing some critical factions in the Old World, such as the Skaven. The expansion to the map is great because it gives you a bigger variety of locations to fight in, although you'll mostly be sticking close to your starting region. It also adds new mechanics that make the Empire more fun and loreful to play. Empire's campaign in base Warhammer is loving terrible imo, despite being the "protagonist" faction. Mortal Empires is the superior way to play.

If playing Mortal Empires, the easiest starting faction is definitely High Elves. They have a good all-around roster with the only real weakness being a lack of artillery and meh cavalry, and they start in a secure starting position on Ulthuan, away from the Chaos, Greenskins, and Beastmen.

As a long time Total War player, I'd say the biggest differences to look out for in this game are the speed of battle, faction asymmetry, and the micromanagement. Battles are way quicker than any of the historical Total War games and tend to last roughly 5 to 10 minutes at most. This is due to morale (now called "Leadership") having about a million ways it can be debuffed and cause a mass rout. Factions are very asymmetrical and the traditional Rock-Paper-Scissors balance of the historical games is thrown off. Here's a rundown of the strengths of each faction in the first game, in brief:

Empire - Good all around faction. Very versatile: has options for dealing with almost anything. Their main weakness is that while they are decent at everything, they are good at nothing (except their ranged/artillery units, which while technically inferior to Dwarfs and Skaven, still loving shred). Their infantry is particularly poopy, being too expensive to tarpit but too lovely to carry on their own.

Dwarfs - Turtles. They have tough infantry with a ton of armor and strong artillery. They have no cavalry and are slow, so they have little mobility and suck at chasing down routing units, but they are very easy to play as.

Greenskins - Probably the weakest roster in either game. Theoretically they are supposed to be a faction with meaty infantry and sheer numbers, with monster units to support, but they have far worse infantry than Dwarfs, Chaos, Elves, etc., worse monsters than Norsca, and fewer numbers and less tarpit ability than Skaven or Vampire Counts. Badly need love from the devs.

Vampire Counts - Has elite cavalry and monster units and a lot of tarpit infantry. They don't rout because almost all of their units are undead and controlled by necromancers, which is good until you realize that, if your lord dies or your units lose the Vampire's equivalent to "morale", the unit will start to "crumble" and will be destroyed entirely. Thus, when Vampires lose battles, they really lose battles. They also have no ranged units to speak of and rely on magic and flying bats to act as ranged units instead.

Warriors of Chaos - The best infantry in the game. Has decent monster units, cavalry, and ridiculously powerful lords. Creative Assembly caved and gave them access to some ranged units because they desperately needed them.

Wood Elves - Wispy bow users. Good at ranged and they have the equivalent of Ents as well.

Brettonnia - Powerful cavalry, tarpit infantry, bad ranged units. If your favorite game in the Total War franchise is Medieval II, roll with these guys, because they play very nearly the same as any of the European factions in Medieval II.

Beastmen - Guerrilla fighters. Most of their units are squishy and lack armor but they make up for this by sheer speed and the strength of their monster units.

Norsca - Decently tough but unarmored infantry with a shitton of powerful monsters. Really fun if you like kaiju.

In Warhammer, the quality of the unit matters way more than the type of the unit, generally speaking. Old strategies are therefore less effective. For example, not all spear units in the game have an "anti-large" bonus (attack bonus against cavalry and monsters) so don't assume that those spearmen you just recruited can hold the flanks against cavalry. Check their attributes first and make sure they have anti large. Also, hammer and anvil is way less useful now and is pretty much only an option for Vampires and Brettonnia. The introduction of magic and the abilities of your lord and hero units also make things way more micro-intensive.

As for the campaign, every faction has unique mechanics (except the Empire, unless you are playing Mortal Empires, hence why I absolutely recommend you get it). Some of these mechanics will be familiar to a Total War play, such as the horde mechanics for Chaos, Beastmen, and Greenskins, but others are wholly original to the Warhammer games.

Thanks! Appreciate your advice and others. Still more is always welcome.
Reason for wanting to start Warhammer 1 is because I think it would be hard to go from 2 to 1 if I want to see the original factions on the original map. But you'd say Mortal Empires is the all around best way to play if I want the old factions?

# ? Jan 1, 2020 21:41

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Kalenden posted:

Thanks! Appreciate your advice and others. Still more is always welcome.
Reason for wanting to start Warhammer 1 is because I think it would be hard to go from 2 to 1 if I want to see the original factions on the original map. But you'd say Mortal Empires is the all around best way to play if I want the old factions?

Mortal Empires is literally the original map, original advisor dialogue, original everything, with game 2 tacked on.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 21:46

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Playing Empire in game 2 is a much better experience than game 1. The same goes for the rest of the game 1 races except greenskins, who didn't realize they were in an arms race and got left way behind by the other factions in ME.

fe: and Beastmen are worse in game 2 as well. Don't bother with Chaos in either

# ? Jan 1, 2020 21:55

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

The chaos factions rely on razing settlements to progress their campaigns. Game 2 changes things so everyone can settle everywhere, which means you can't reliably burn your way across the world anymore.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 22:07

Beef: Jul 26, 2004

CA is making a perfect WHFB conversion, army book power creep and everything.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 22:11

feller: Jul 5, 2006

Arcsquad12 posted:

The chaos factions rely on razing settlements to progress their campaigns. Game 2 changes things so everyone can settle everywhere, which means you can't reliably burn your way across the world anymore.

I did actually have a fun game as Chaos once. I allied the rats by Kislev and they settled everything I razed. It looked and worked out to be the same.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 22:24

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 5 days!

The Gunslinger posted:

How are people playing Lokhir now? I took out the Southern Sentinels and killed off the Citadel of Dusk but I still don't have enough income to afford a land stack and sail around with a full black ark. I am surrounded by skaven/dinos so I can't really just fart off into the ocean or I lose all of income. Also its super weird that his red blade quest is all the loving way up north.

The AI has a huge boner for nuking White Lions first with ranged attacks which doesn't help. I can have 4-5 units in front of them and the AI will move its own ranged units forward into danger just to nuke the White Lions. Even with Alistair buffing them they suck, they really need some love.

I'm playing Lokhir in a Luckys Overhaul campaign, which turns out to be harder since unit caps make his 'specialty' unit, Corsairs, rather limited. You also need T5 or specialty ports (can't remember which) to build new arks, and the rite that replicates it just makes Corsairs better (not bad, but not amazing either) for a few rounds.

My strategy was to demolish the barracks in your starting settlement and get that gold mine going asap. You can just use your black ark for recruitment needs. I crushed Teclis pretty early on but going on turn 100 even with Pestilens as an ally /meatshield it's been endless revolts due to corruption. Now the upside to this is that you get tons of exp and slaves but they really do bog you down until you have the cash flow to get armies that can quickly crush the revolts before they besiege your settlements. In my case Pestilens was friendly to me and got big enough to keep lizards at bay but attrition and poor replenishment have hampered my efforts to Harry the old world like I originally wanted to. Perhaps I'll spend the next hundred turns fighting my way westward.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 22:32

Dr Christmas: Apr 24, 2010; Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻

Does the bonus that Black Arks give to Corsair units keep them competitive as a backbone to those armies during the late game?

# ? Jan 1, 2020 22:54

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Tabletop corsairs were a core unit and you could take as many of them as you drat well pleased. They were literally a spearman sidegrade.

Y'all and your loreful unit cap mods are giving me the nerd shakes. "Lokhir can only take so many corsairs" what what nooooo

# ? Jan 1, 2020 23:15

Kanos: Sep 6, 2006; was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

After playing the new Lokhir in vanilla, an overhaul Lokhir who has limited Black Ark and Corsair access sounds really bland and awful.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 23:19

neonchameleon: Nov 14, 2012

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Doomfire warlocks are one of those units that does work in MP and in certain weird campaign battles but has practically no role in the 40 v 40 doomstack fights that you need to build armies for. They live with chameleon skinks in my mind. They'd love a mod that capped stacks at 10 or so.

That's a misunderstanding of why doomfire warlocks don't have a role. The problem is that in single player the de facto unit cap of 20 or 40 when you have an entire faction backing you, but are limited on supply lines, you want to build fairly elite so you don't have to pay the penalty for an extra army. Elite stuff tends to be both heavily armoured and either large or mounted - and with only about 30% AP doomfire warlocks are not good into armour. Also area of effect attacks are not good into big models. Restricting stacks to 10 models wouldn't help; it wouldn't make tier 1 chaff more popular in campaign.

Empire Halberdiers have the opposite problem. They are armour piercing anti-large specialists - great for beating down things like blood knights, aracnarock spiders, rotting prometheans, chaos spawn, etc. and they can do surprisingly well against e.g. chaos warriors warriors or even greatswords because they break the armour. Not bad for 650 gold. But in multiplayer you almost never take all 20 units you're allowed, so most players pad out their roster with chaff like marauders, ungors, and spearmen. The sort of things you don't see in endgame stacks - and against unarmoured infantry halberds are shielded spearmen without the shields, and struggle badly against marauders, skeleton warriors, etc. and just die horribly to basic archers.

quote:

All campaign units, though, get together and laugh at white lions and great eagles and their godawful useless building.

e: white lions are a sticking point for me cuz boy i love elves and in all versions of tabletop they were more of a sidegrade to swordmasters, not just lovely store brand swordmasters. They should be more like slayer/swordmaster hybrids. Fast for infantry and a bonus vs large.

The problem with the AP/bonus vs large combination you're picking out is that would put them squarely in the same role as phoenix guard. So putting them in the mid-cost infantry AP role was the main missing niche. And if white lions came out of a T3 settlement building or something else I was going to buy I'd almost certainly buy a unit per army for enveloping their lord and breaking the lord's armour. It's just there is no way I am spending an entire building slot on that silly grove.

# ? Jan 1, 2020 23:38

Lord Koth: Jan 8, 2012

Soooo.... here was an absolutely fascinating bug I just ran into. Twice, as I reloaded and tried again.

Specifically, I was trying to raid a Treasure Island sea encounter, and this happened. Was on Mortal Empires near the Volcanic Islands, and had a full stack of a Black Ark set to reinforce. Game hung for a long time on the battle loading screen at ~25%, then rapidly loaded into that.

Hilariously, the deployment zone actually does work - which is why my singular flier is actually deployed in it (and can be moved around). All ground units just stay where they are though, as trying to move them results in an invalid cursor everywhere due to the map being, well, water.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jan 1, 2020

# ? Jan 1, 2020 23:48

Eimi: Nov 23, 2013; I will never ~~log off~~shut up.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Tabletop corsairs were a core unit and you could take as many of them as you drat well pleased. They were literally a spearman sidegrade.

Y'all and your loreful unit cap mods are giving me the nerd shakes. "Lokhir can only take so many corsairs" what what nooooo

In the Tabletop Unit Caps mod Corsairs are still core. Lukcy's is something else.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 00:21

Ammanas: Jul 17, 2005; Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Dr Christmas posted:

Does the bonus that Black Arks give to Corsair units keep them competitive as a backbone to those armies during the late game?

i just cant see any reason to take them over har ganeth executioners

# ? Jan 2, 2020 01:10

Olive Branch: May 26, 2010; There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.

yikes! posted:

I did actually have a fun game as Chaos once. I allied the rats by Kislev and they settled everything I razed. It looked and worked out to be the same.

Apr�s nous, les rats.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 01:45

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

Is there any way to turn off the snap to nearest unit on ground cast spells?

# ? Jan 2, 2020 02:10

Ammanas: Jul 17, 2005; Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Broken Cog posted:

Is there any way to turn off the snap to nearest unit on ground cast spells?

hold alt when casting

# ? Jan 2, 2020 02:54

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

hit me with your favorite wood elf mod

# ? Jan 2, 2020 03:13

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

while searching for wood elf mods, I found something
hey old people, enjoy this

# ? Jan 2, 2020 03:37

Ammanas: Jul 17, 2005; Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Third World Reagan posted:

hit me with your favorite wood elf mod

the one that stops the lovely loving wood elves from colonizing anywhere

# ? Jan 2, 2020 03:49

litany of gulps: Jun 11, 2001; Fun Shoe

Ammanas posted:

i just cant see any reason to take them over har ganeth executioners

Last time I played Lokhir, at one point Lothern and Tiranoc consistently had 5ish armies in the ocean coming at me at any moment. I had 3 arks full of corsairs autoresolving almost all of the battles. They could each recruit 6 rank 8 corsairs per turn, which meant even Pyrrhic victories could be recovered fully in 2-3 turns. I had higher tier units on my regular lords, which I eventually managed to get across the ocean and into Ulthuan. I would never have been able to keep up with that war of attrition using 2 turn recruitment units, though.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 04:20

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

Ammanas posted:

hold alt when casting

That easy eh? Cheers!

# ? Jan 2, 2020 04:28

A Perfect Twist: Aug 15, 2007; "What have I done? I'll have to start again. To forget and to disappear. I'll head north, far-north, to that big question mark, the Northern Territory"

Third World Reagan posted:

while searching for wood elf mods, I found something
hey old people, enjoy this

They should have drawn pants and vest on chaos spawn for this unit instead of recoloured orcs, imho

# ? Jan 2, 2020 04:58

CobiWann: Oct 21, 2009; Have fun!

So, playing as the Greenskins...

...

...

...how in the gently caressing gently caress do I beat a Dwarven army in Mortal Empires?

Around turn 20 Grudgebearer comes stomping down with a full stack and burns/razes Iron Rock. If I sally out with a full army of Big Uns', two Skulkers, and two Catapults, I'm getting my rear end handed to me. If I try to siege a Dwarven settlement with a full garrison, even if I have a full stack and a WAAAGH I'm getting my rear end handed to me.

I feel like my mistake is my army composition. What type of army should I be using (especially against Grudgebringer)?

# ? Jan 2, 2020 14:59

Cynic Jester: Apr 11, 2009; Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

CobiWann posted:

I feel like my mistake is my army composition. What type of army should I be using (especially against Grudgebringer)?

Rats or elves. Failing that, more armies until you hit higher tier orcs and can beat up dwarves on a better than 1 to 1 basis.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 15:05

Geisladisk: Sep 15, 2007

I'm on my fourth Empire playthrough in a row. Every time I tell myself I'm not going to play Empire again, I scroll through the faction select screen. I look at the unit roster of each faction and think, "yes, this is cool and all, but where are the Helstorm Rocket Batteries?"

Those loving Helstorms. There's something extremely satisfying about bringing rocket artillery to a swordfight. The whoosh they make when they fire. The screech they make in the air. The way they beautifully arc through the air. The way they let you right click to remove units from halfway across the map. :allears:

# ? Jan 2, 2020 16:43

feller: Jul 5, 2006

CobiWann posted:

So, playing as the Greenskins...

...

...

...how in the gently caressing gently caress do I beat a Dwarven army in Mortal Empires?

Around turn 20 Grudgebearer comes stomping down with a full stack and burns/razes Iron Rock. If I sally out with a full army of Big Uns', two Skulkers, and two Catapults, I'm getting my rear end handed to me. If I try to siege a Dwarven settlement with a full garrison, even if I have a full stack and a WAAAGH I'm getting my rear end handed to me.

I feel like my mistake is my army composition. What type of army should I be using (especially against Grudgebringer)?

You want like 3-5 more skulkers since they�re your only AP. Big Uns are for killing large units which the dwarves don�t have much of. You�d be better off with boyz and skulkers

# ? Jan 2, 2020 17:02

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

Yeah Skulkers are key in vanilla vs dwarves.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 17:07

CobiWann: Oct 21, 2009; Have fun!

yikes! posted:

You want like 3-5 more skulkers since they�re your only AP. Big Uns are for killing large units which the dwarves don�t have much of. You�d be better off with boyz and skulkers

So say...

Lord (Red Line buffs)
Goblin Big Boss
2 Catapults
6 Skulkers
2 Cavalry (Goblin Spiders?)
8 Orc Boyz

# ? Jan 2, 2020 17:25

Jeremor: Jun 1, 2009; Drop Your Nuts

Also the night goblins that have poison attacks are pretty decent, too. But yeah almost half your armies should be skulkers early on.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 17:34

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

And then, when the time is right, the glorious era of black orc stacks begins.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 17:40

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

I think you mean full night goblin fanatic stack

# ? Jan 2, 2020 17:45

Vlex: Aug 4, 2006; I'd rather be a climbing ape than a big titty angel.

Also don't underestimate the value of artillery superiority as Greenskins. It's not fluffy or lore friendly, but the fact remains that a Dwarf army that has to walk to you because you ganked all its artillery with five loving rock lobbers is a sad Dwarf army.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 17:48

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 09:31

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

# ? Jan 2, 2020 17:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Total Warhammer 2 - the thread is dead, long live the thread

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