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Apraxin posted:Graun liveblog: e: There are 6 symbolic foods Seder Plate, and 6 features in a bunch of other places in Abrahamic religions and also in benzene molecules. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 14:22
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mila kunis posted:I hate the Guardian a lot. Is there an actual good place to go for UK news? You're posting in it. Purple Prince posted:I mean my old CLP was mostly pensioners because they have a lot more free time to campaign but sure. Capitalists are free to stop being capitalists whenever they feel like it, and thereby escape the guillotine.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:28
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forkboy84 posted:I wish I had even a tenth of the patience needed to enjoy one of those From games. This is pub quiz level knowledge, but there is a really fun From game you can finish in a day or 2.  You'll need a friend though. 
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Jan 2, 2020 14:35
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Venomous posted:Haven't played Bloodborne (don't have a PS4) but wasn't it the case that people who hated Dark Souls played through Bloodborne, loved it, then played Dark Souls like Bloodborne and loved it too? At least, that's what Hbomb said iirc. This was the way it was for me. Played DS1 on PC and ragequit somewhere before Sen's Fortress. Then Bloodborne came out, and as a former massive goth/massive furry I was instantly interested. Loved it, got hooked and now the DS series are basically the first games since Super Mario Land on the gameboy that I've bothered to beat multiple times each.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:38
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Grey Hunter posted:The next Labor leader has to be able to stand up and hammer home the fact that with a massive majority, everything that goes wrong from this point on is the Tories fault. 2) Promise to reverse all of the poo poo the Tories just did. Like you say, the Tories are going to blast the 'now we have control' message and Labour needs to co-opt that to highlight every single horror and power home how they did this, they chose to do this etc - cut off the 'oh but the eu / courts / lords wouldn't let us' bullshit. Unfortunately I feel like post-brexit, the disaster capitalists who are now in charge will just invent a new disaster that they tie themselves to, and create another 'you have to vote for us otherwise we lose the nhs / the trade deal with the US / the glow cloud will kill us all.' But for either of those two initial options to work, as you say we need a Labour party screaming from the rooftops about every single gently caress up the tories make in short, easy to understand slogans. Might I recommend 'Boris screwed brexit' as a starter? It forces him into a position where it feels true, and to refute it he has to go into details which people won't understand. Kind of using the 'never play defence' alt-right tactic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA
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Jan 2, 2020 14:42
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Renaissance Robot posted:Capitalists are free to stop being capitalists whenever they feel like it, and thereby escape the guillotine. If by 'capitalists' you mean 'anyone with a private pension', then sure we can force pensioners back into work, but that doesn't seem very left wing. Under the Marxist definition the majority of pensioners in the UK are in fact capitalists. This is because of the proliferation of workplace and private pension plans under neoliberalism, and it makes most people complicit in the system. The question is how you go about building support for abolishing those capital formations when most people have an older relative whose livelihood depends on the same capital formations. Neoliberalism is basically holding pensioners hostage against workers. Raising the state pension significantly would be a good start but you kind of need to be in power for that and the issue is that it doesn't help the olds who already have private pensions, but does expand the state, which the same pensioners oppose. Purple Prince fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 14:51
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Renaissance Robot posted:Capitalists are free to stop being capitalists whenever they feel like it, and thereby escape the guillotine. i am pretty sure there isn't gonna be a revolution tbh, two reasons in particular spring to mind. so people who think they're socialists need to draw up a different set of blueprints imo.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:57
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Pensions usually transfer their wealth to government bonds (gilts?) as retirement age approaches, right? For stability of the investment? Perhaps accelerate that process, until pensions are fully invested in such things throughout their lifetime and not in capitalist endeavors? I'm not a financial expert so I'm pulling ideas out of my rear end here.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:00
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Overminty posted:Ah I remember turning 30 too Don't do this to me I turn 30 next week and I am not looking forward to it Jose posted:Don't bother learning to parry and just dodge a lot. It's how I beat them all I'm good at parrying and extremely bad at dodging which is pretty funny because it means half the bosses are now trivial (I can beat Gascoigne in 30 secs flat) while the other half still kick my rear end (Paarl I still don't think I've ever beat without summoning help) ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 15:00
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ThomasPaine posted:Don't do this to me I turn 30 next week and I am not looking forward to it Hug your knees and prepare to say goodbye
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Jan 2, 2020 15:01
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Pensions usually transfer their wealth to government bonds (gilts?) as retirement age approaches, right? For stability of the investment? Main issue is that gilts, while very stable, tend to underperform inflation, which means that pension funds would lose value exponentially rather than gaining it (due to capital markets) like they do at the moment. This would probably mean reducing the value of pensions or raising the age people can take them at for this to be in any way sustainable. This could be mitigated if the state itself held a lot of productive capacity like e.g. mass nationalisation of industries or a sovereign wealth fund could allow for. Basically pensions are such a massive thing that their success or failure is always going to be tied to the wealth of the nation somehow, so I'm not sure how you make pensions closer to the state without having to institute full communism in advance.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:09
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turning 30 is fine, you realise how dreadful people in their 20s are and you no longer have to care about all the stupid poo poo 20 somethings worry about, it's great
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Jan 2, 2020 15:09
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gh0stpinballa posted:turning 30 is fine, you realise how dreadful people in their 20s are and you no longer have to care about all the stupid poo poo 20 somethings worry about, it's great Otoh at 20 I could easily gently caress like 5 times in one night, approaching 30 I barely have the energy to manage once. This may be down to all the booze and takeaway and general neglect of the gym over the age, mind.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:12
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Ah, the other "five a day" (insert aubergine emoji)
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Jan 2, 2020 15:23
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Wait until you are 40 and you suddenly scare yourself when you realize you aren't thinking of sex every 10 seconds.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:27
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Apraxin posted:Graun liveblog: It's a loving shame that the only thing stopping the electable centrists is their lack of ability to win an election.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:27
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ThomasPaine posted:Otoh at 20 I could easily gently caress like 5 times in one night, approaching 30 I barely have the energy to manage once. this is why allah invented gaming friend particularly 2 player/co op gaming
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Jan 2, 2020 15:33
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ThomasPaine posted:Don't do this to me I turn 30 next week and I am not looking forward to it You just break paarls legs constantly and he can't get up to do damage
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Jan 2, 2020 15:39
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Purple Prince posted:I mean my old CLP was mostly pensioners because they have a lot more free time to campaign but sure. The chances of anyone's mother or grandmother being a capitalist are pretty drat low; being a capitalist isn't just owning a property in which you live, it's owning tens or hundreds of millions of pounds plus in assets; it's being able to leverage those assets to control people. Almost nobody is a capitalist in a meaningful sense, and a revolutiont hat guillotines little old ladies for having lived in London since the sixties and therefore owning one house worth a million or two is a stupid loving revolution.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:43
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ThomasPaine posted:Don't do this to me I turn 30 next week and I am not looking forward to it Paarl smacked me around a bit until I switched from the whip to the great sword and then I breezed through it.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:55
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thespaceinvader posted:The chances of anyone's mother or grandmother being a capitalist are pretty drat low; being a capitalist isn't just owning a property in which you live, it's owning tens or hundreds of millions of pounds plus in assets; it's being able to leverage those assets to control people. In the sense of "does not work, relies on extraction of surplus value from labour for income", pensioners are capitalists. You're confusing this with the popular use of "capitalist" to mean big bad haute bourgeois billionaires, but by Marx's definition most pensioners are something like petit bourgeois. It might not chime culturally, but in a material sense most pensioners rely on capital markets for their income. Their class interests are aligned with hedge fund managers and financiers more than those of workers. Now am I saying Agnes down the road should be put up against the wall? No. But if we don't understand what makes pensioners vote Tory so consistently we have no hope of reversing that trend.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:01
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are babies capitalist. was boss baby a documentary.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:03
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ThomasPaine posted:Don't do this to me I turn 30 next week and I am not looking forward to it Are you doing a Skill/Bloodtinge build, then? If that's the case, the Chikage might give you the grunt you need to break through Paarl's defences. Alternatively, just shoot him lots in the head. That works. Or take a Chikage/Evelyn loadout in and do both.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:05
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gh0stpinballa posted:are babies capitalist. was boss baby a documentary. Well if reproductive labour counts babies do extract the milk from the teat of workers and grow fat off the spoils...
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Jan 2, 2020 16:10
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Babies poo poo everywhere for other people to clean up and when they don't get what they want they throw a massive tantrum so you're goddamn right they're capitalists
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Jan 2, 2020 16:14
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Purple Prince posted:In the sense of "does not work, relies on extraction of surplus value from labour for income", pensioners are capitalists. You're confusing this with the popular use of "capitalist" to mean big bad haute bourgeois billionaires, but by Marx's definition most pensioners are something like petit bourgeois. I honestly don't think it's as clear cut as this. Pensioners fit that definition, sure, but so do many if not most disabled people, unemployed people, children, non-working parents, arguably teachers, medics, anyone in a service industry, etc etc etc. In short, it's a pretty poo poo definition of capitalist. Society caring for the poor and vulnerable who are unable to work, doesn't make those being cared for loving capitalists. Understanding what drives pensioners to vote against their own interest is important, btu so is understanding what drives everyone else to vote against their own interest, and anyone* who votes Tory is doign that. *let's face it, the people in whose interest it actyually IS to see Tory policies enacted are so vanishingly small in number that there are functionally none of them. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 16:21
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gh0stpinballa posted:are babies capitalist. was boss baby a documentary. Baby Corp in Boss Baby literally represents the natal-industrial complex that the family becomes part of under the capitalist system.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:23
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thespaceinvader posted:I honestly don't think it's as clear cut as this. I don’t mean all pensioners but specifically most pensioners in the UK, where most people hold private or workplace pensions which are not the same as National Insurance, and are, in fact, forms of capital ownership (funds invested in a portfolio managed by the pension trust) . Besides my intention's not really to identify wall fodder but to look at why pensioners in particular vote with capitalist class interests. For most of those other categories (other than children, who can't own capital and so aren't capitalists unless you're being facetious) the arrangement is either voluntary (spouses where one partner works and the other looks after children) or state funded, so capital doesn't come into it. Pension funds are tied directly to capital markets and most pensioners in the UK have this type of pension in addition to the less problematic national insurance.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:28
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i am gonna treat every baby i meet with total contempt from now on, those parasites, those *hoglets*
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Jan 2, 2020 16:29
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Purple Prince posted:If by 'capitalists' you mean 'anyone with a private pension', then sure we can force pensioners back into work, but that doesn't seem very left wing. Don't be wilfully dense. Nobody's coming to murder your gran for the crime of having a pension in the form of private investments. Nobody's proposing taking those investments off her and then leaving her with no form of support beyond the suggestion that she just get a job. I don't know who this post was even for.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:30
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gh0stpinballa posted:i am gonna treat every baby i meet with total contempt from now on, those parasites, those *hoglets*
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Jan 2, 2020 16:33
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I think campaigning on a message of hating the boomers is counterproductive, given that they have the maximum vote power
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Jan 2, 2020 16:38
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Purple Prince posted:I don’t mean all pensioners but specifically most pensioners in the UK, where most people hold private or workplace pensions which are not the same as National Insurance, and are, in fact, forms of capital ownership (funds invested in a portfolio managed by the pension trust) . Besides my intention's not really to identify wall fodder but to look at why pensioners in particular vote with capitalist class interests. "Does not work, relies on extraction of surplus value from labour for income' applies pretty strongly to children, I think? Pension funds' growth relies on capital, sure. BUt an individual pensioner currently withdrawing from that fund, mostly doesn't. And indeed, relies a lot MORE on the kinds of social structures built by socialism, to wit, healthcare systems, social care systems, public transport, etc etc etc. The fact that their monetary income comes partly from capitalist economic systems doesn't align their interests with capital any more than it does for ANY of us; almost everyone relies on capitalist systems for their income in some way or another because CAPITALISM IS THE loving SYSTEM.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:41
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thespaceinvader posted:"Does not work, relies on extraction of surplus value from labour for income' applies pretty strongly to children, I think? The whole idea is that they are to be shaped into the workers and consumers by their upbringing within the system, it's the means of production of the means of production.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:44
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Purple Prince posted:In the sense of "does not work, relies on extraction of surplus value from labour for income", pensioners are capitalists. You're confusing this with the popular use of "capitalist" to mean big bad haute bourgeois billionaires, but by Marx's definition most pensioners are something like petit bourgeois. Depends what pension you're talking about. State pension is part of the welfare system and comes out of national insurance and taxation - now culturally that might not chime with people because there's this idea that they're getting back what they paid in earlier, but it's still true that retired pensions are paid for by people who are currently working Of course the tories play down the society/welfare aspect and big up the "this is your money you earned" idea, which is appealing to people. Same reason when they did those tax breakdowns so you get mad at where YOURE TAXES are going, pensions are ~magically absent~ from the welfare slice of the pie Other pensions and investments, sure it depends - there are absolutely petit bourgeoisie types with property income and the like. But there are also people who've saved their money and put it into various funds, including pensions, because they've been told that's what you need to do, there have been government and work schemes to get them to do it So everyone is tied into that system because that's what we live under, you can't opt out of it. If you even have a bank account earning interest (hopefully covering inflation but even that is an ask these days) then are you a capitalist? Is this a meaningful class definition? Does Agnes even identify as a capitalist, as opposed to just relying on the system to keep running so she doesn't lose all her money? People living in a capitalist society and getting by on the scraps don't have aligned interests with the people running that system, their interests align with their friends and family and the people around them, the communities they live in, the services they rely on, the redistribution of income away from those huge pools of wealth to a functioning and happy society where everyone's taken care of and they can reach their potential. They might think their interests are aligned with capitalists, but they're not are they - that's the problem that needs addressing. That and the idea that "Labour will destory the economy there's no money left ha ha ha"
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Jan 2, 2020 16:47
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Guavanaut posted:Children are closer to a commodity than a capitalist under capitalism, I think. I'm more making the point that 'Does not work, relies on extraction of surplus value from labour for income' is a poo poo definition of capitalist in any system, let alone our current one. A better one is 'someone who owns and leverages significant amounts of the means of production, typically for their own person/corporate gain'.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:48
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thespaceinvader posted:I honestly don't think it's as clear cut as this. If disabled care was organised on a capitalist basis, they would be capitalists. As it is not, they are not. If teachers made more money from profits of the school they owned than wages from teaching in a classroom, things would be different from what they are. And so what you said above would be right.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:49
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*ralph wiggum waving an IOU for a dollar* I'm a shareholder!
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Jan 2, 2020 16:50
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radmonger posted:If disabled care was organised on a capitalist basis, they would be capitalists. As it is not, they are not. So it has nothing (directly) to do with extracting income from suprlus value generated by others' labour then? WHich was my point in the first place. Because every single person who's getting income from sources that aren't their own personal labour, is benefitting from surplus value generated by others' labour. hell, loving anyone who buys clothes is doing that in the system in which we live, given that the clothes are literally only as cheap as they are because the capitalist system screws over the people making them in bangladesh or china or whever.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:54
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thespaceinvader posted:A better one is 'someone who owns and leverages significant amounts of the means of production, typically for their own person/corporate gain'. I disagree, because the reason Marx talks about the capitalist and proletarian classes in Das Kapital is to look at the economic system of capitalism. In Marx's day, absent the social democratic measures we have now, it was easy to separate the two classes. But that separation is not about having a small capitalist class against a mass of workers, it's about identifying the conflict between the classes. Our current system is one in which capital ownership is no longer confined to a small elite but rather interpenetrates all of society. In many cases, people can have features of the capital owning class and the working class (I have previously argued this is what defines the middle class), and therefore the conflict between classes is one of competing interests under late capitalism, and a major building block of any revolution under late capitalism must be identifying and reforming the capitalist within ourselves. For the purpose of actually understanding how material interests influence the way people think it's no longer useful to restrict "capitalist" to a small and easy to hate elite: we have to identify and purge our own inner capitalists. Capital ownership, ownership of the means of production, is what makes you a capitalist, and the definition I used above is just shorthand for that. E: Just realised I'm echoing the Marquis de Sade as written in Marat/Sade, which is an awesome play which everyone should watch the recording of (it used to be easy to find on YouTube). Purple Prince fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 16:59
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