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Unimpressed posted:Huh? Google brought up an attack on Camp bastion where two marines were killed, had several aircraft destroyed and captured or killed the entire attacking force. That's not what overrun means. If you can penetrate the base to the point where you attach explosives to aircraft on the flight line and engage air maintenance crew in ground combat the base has been loving overrun. :edit: and kill the commander of the aircraft maintenance squadron. karthun fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 00:09
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Deteriorata posted:I suspect having all US bases overrun by militias simultaneously should do it. bullshit catastrophizing
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Jan 4, 2020 00:10
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the first one is why we will not be using the second Are you serious? You really think US aircraft carriers are threatened by Iran's missiles? Iran doesn't have enough missiles to overwhelm Israeli defences and I predict Hezbollah will choose Lebanon over Iran. Also taking out airbases is extremely hard, because they don't have a creamy middle, not since Israel destroyed the Egyptian airforce on the ground in 67. Aircraft are protected in hardened shelters, along with fuel and ammunition, and runways are easily repairable. If Hezbollah joined in they could kill thousands of Israelis but that will just give Israel an excuse to bomb Lebanon.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:13
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karthun posted:If you can penetrate the base to the point where you attach explosives to aircraft on the flight line and engage air maintenance crew in ground combat the base has been loving overrun. No it hasn't. A base has been overrun if it's run over by the enemy who then proceeds to take possession of said base and capture or kill its occupants rather than being captured or killed by same occupants.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:16
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Anyway I feel like I should take a break for a while. There's a lot of hysterical catastrophising here right now. For the record, here's what I think: 1. The strike will not accomplish anything. 2. It will cause untold civilian death and destruction. 3. It will strengthen the Iranian regime and ultimately Iran's position in the middle east. 4. It will further destroy the last remnants of morality in the US armed forces. 5. It will embolden the worst of the world's leaders including Trump himself, Bibi, Erdogan, Putin and Khamenei to be even more outrageous and callous. 6. It will not lead to Iran destroying the US forces in the middle east or any of its allies. 7. It will not lead to mass strikes against the US mainland nor to World war 3.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:24
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Unimpressed posted:Anyway I feel like I should take a break for a while. There's a lot of hysterical catastrophising here right now. these grover edits are getting obtuse
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Jan 4, 2020 00:44
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Is there anything I can read on the background of Suleimani being in Baghdad with Iraqi officials that were also killed in the attack? All I got here is that he just kind of happened to be there and these Iraqi officials just happened to also be in the convoy or something. I can't imagine that it was something really clear-cut like they were all just twirling their mustaches, cackling about how they're going to destroy America or something. I'm wondering if there was some diplomatic function or something else going on that the US also managed to poo poo all over.
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Jan 4, 2020 00:47
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Is there anything I can read on the background of Suleimani being in Baghdad with Iraqi officials that were also killed in the attack? All I got here is that he just kind of happened to be there and these Iraqi officials just happened to also be in the convoy or something. I can't imagine that it was something really clear-cut like they were all just twirling their mustaches, cackling about how they're going to destroy America or something. I'm wondering if there was some diplomatic function or something else going on that the US also managed to poo poo all over. my understanding was that suleimani was on an official state visit to iran's allies in iraq
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Jan 4, 2020 00:49
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Unimpressed posted:Are you serious? You really think US aircraft carriers are threatened by Iran's missiles? Iran doesn't have enough missiles to overwhelm Israeli defences and I predict Hezbollah will choose Lebanon over Iran. do yourself a quick favor, and look up what the Millennium Challenge was seriously, you'll laugh like hell
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Jan 4, 2020 01:02
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Unimpressed posted:Are you serious? You really think US aircraft carriers are threatened by Iran's missiles? Iran doesn't have enough missiles to overwhelm Israeli defences and I predict Hezbollah will choose Lebanon over Iran. I, too, have never heard of the Falkland War.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:03
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seriously "anti ship missiles will sink a ship, it does not matter how brown and inferior you think the people firing them are" has been established for forty years at this point
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Jan 4, 2020 01:07
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like, it's a literal fact of the matter that anti-ship weapons are decades ahead of anti-anti ship weapons if someone well positioned wants to sink the aircraft carrier, it's going to happen
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Jan 4, 2020 01:08
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And sinking a surface ship has only gotten easier over that time period.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:09
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I forgot who pointed it out but puting WTC steel in an aircraft carrier was kind of symbolic about how even the navy feels about them, deep down. Like their only real defense is that sinking them would really piss us off.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:10
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come now, what are the odds that the browner peoples of the earth can figure out how to fire an Exocet as the last two decades have taught us, it is impossible for an explosive to mar the perfect and imperishable face of the US or its allies. by the way remember that one time an Israeli cruiser was loving around near Lebanon and then suddenly had a gaping hole in it for, you know. some reason? probably a one-off, imo
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Jan 4, 2020 01:15
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:come now, what are the odds that the browner peoples of the earth can figure out how to fire an Exocet Is that the INS Eilat, or have the Israelis gotten more big surface ships sunk trying to do big-dick naval poo poo?
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Jan 4, 2020 01:27
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It's been nearly 30 YEARS since the Gulf War and the US is still dropping bombs on Iraq. Thirty loving years of this.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:33
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:come now, what are the odds that the browner peoples of the earth can figure out how to fire an Exocet The israeli navy has patrol boats, not cruisers lmao. And the Falklands war happened before CIWS and point defense missiles were common on ships. Anti ship missiles are obviously very dangerous to ships hence the name but bringing up lovely examples is not helpful.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:39
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:do yourself a quick favor, and look up what the Millennium Challenge was Anyone who quotes the millennium challenge as a source of knowledge on American performance is falling victim to a little bit of information being more dangerous than no information. The milhist thread iirc had a pretty good discussion on it at some point. Basically, training exercises don't work like people think they do.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:43
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AlexanderCA posted:Anyone who quotes the millennium challenge as a source of knowledge on American performance is falling victim to a little bit of information being more dangerous than no information. The milhist thread iirc had a pretty good discussion on it at some point. yeah, if you go into it any further than that you go right back to getting scared again it turns out point defenses need to reload. Van Ripper deciding to point out this flaw by saying "this speedboat carries a destroyer's tonnage of missiles and has fired them all at once," because he's a pissy little fucker even by Marine Corps standards, allows people to neatly sidestep the underlying problem if you've got enough missiles it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. and the estimates of how many missiles Iran has produced in the last twenty years make for some real interesting reading.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:50
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pangstrom posted:I forgot who pointed it out but puting WTC steel in an aircraft carrier was kind of symbolic about how even the navy feels about them, deep down. Like their only real defense is that sinking them would really piss us off. the primary defense used by carriers against anti-ship missiles like exocet is just range. Exocet max range is 180 km. Guess where US carrier groups are in relation to Iran? US carrier groups locations as of yesterday.  Iran can deny the US safe movement in and out of the Persian Gulf. They can't stop carriers from hovering just out of missile range in the Indian ocean. Squalid fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 01:54
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Also, 2 exocet missiles didn't manage to kill the 4000 tonne Stark. A American carrier is 100000 tonnes, 25 times more massive. They can be sunk for sure if damage is not contained, but it's hardly a certainty. The real killers to worry about are submarines IMO.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:54
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/AlSuraEnglish/status/1213259975532769286?s=20 Looks like the US is all in on this.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:20
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 The War Nerd is deeply saddened by the death of General Soleimani. He was very good at killing people, which is, in a way, a lot like being a good person.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:25
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Fallen Hamprince posted:
like i get what he is sorta saying but thats very close to being like wehraboo contrarian poo poo who jerk it to loving Rommel or peiper. while i think its a bad thing(because assassinating state actors when your not in a hot war is loving bad on so many levels) heartfelt memorializing over Iranian tywin lannister is kinda hosed up and why is dislike war nerd in general. he will probably legit cry when assad dies of old age. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 02:28
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Fallen Hamprince posted:The War Nerd is deeply saddened by the death of General Soleimani. He was very good at killing people, which is, in a way, a lot like being a good person. A reminder for those that don’t know that Gary is a fictional character, created by some extremely dodgy pro-Russian American exiles (whose musings on war were, admittedly, fun to read, what, a decade or two ago?).
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Jan 4, 2020 02:29
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Mokotow posted:A reminder for those that don’t know that Gary is a fictional character, created by some extremely dodgy pro-Russian American exiles (whose musings on war were, admittedly, fun to read, what, a decade or two ago?). if you want a good lefty war history podcast. https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/lions-led-by-donkeys-podcast these guys are the best.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:31
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A big flaming stink posted:my understanding was that suleimani was on an official state visit to iran's allies in iraq They blew up an Iraqi minister of protocol so yeah it was definitely a state visit.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:31
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Herstory Begins Now posted:They blew up an Iraqi minister of protocol so yeah it was definitely a state visit. also they blew up a Hezbollah commander and arrested a bunch of ministers.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:will people acutally listen to this dude or is this all saber rattling. Grand Mufti Sheikh Pretty loving sure FATWA powers is something people will listen to after 20 years of US presence and indescrimante killing in the earlier part.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:36
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An Iranian general, a Hezbollah commander, and an Iraqi Minister walk into a bar. Dozens are killed in the ensuing airstrike. At least it wasn't a wedding joke.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:36
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IMO probably comparable to acknowledging Vo Nguyen Giap who had a fuckton of European blood on his hands, but yknow, if there weren't Europeans 10,000 miles from home occupying the country it might've been a lot less euro blood on his hands. That said, I think looking up to any military figure is almost always going to have you saying good things about really awful people, especially once you're talking about generals.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:36
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Grand Mufti Sheikh sorry.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:37
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Fallen Hamprince posted:An Iranian general, a Hezbollah commander, and an Iraqi Minister walk into a bar. Dozens are killed in the ensuing airstrike. At least it wasn't a wedding joke. ...or was it?
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Jan 4, 2020 02:37
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It's legitimately unbelievable to me that you have almost every major faction in Iraq coming out unified on this. I don't think anyone, anywhere could have seen that realistically happening over almost anything even 6 months ago
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Jan 4, 2020 02:39
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It's legitimately unbelievable to me that you have almost every major faction in Iraq coming out unified on this. I don't think anyone, anywhere could have seen that realistically happening over almost anything even 6 months ago Can't wait for them to elect saddam hussein the second to lead the coalition against the US
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Jan 4, 2020 02:42
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It's legitimately unbelievable to me that you have almost every major faction in Iraq coming out unified on this. I don't think anyone, anywhere could have seen that realistically happening over almost anything even 6 months ago Doesn’t mean anything will come out of it. I mean, Yom Kippur and all that jazz.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:43
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LookingGodIntheEye posted:And send out waves of child soldiers to clear landmines and barbed wire with their bodies. That's the real kicker. What victory in a conflict with Iran looks like is literally the nuclear agreement the Trump admin unilaterally tore up. This is all totally pointless.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:45
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. American imperialism sucks.
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Orange Devil posted:That's the real kicker. What victory in a conflict with Iran looks like is literally the nuclear agreement the Trump admin unilaterally tore up. This is all totally pointless. this. with that deal relations between the countries could have warmed and maybe societal changes would have gradually happened since iran was no longer fully cornered. but NOPE.
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Jan 4, 2020 02:51
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 75.5 % of the population is urban (63,420,504 people in 2019) WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 02:53
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