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ImpAtom posted:I feel like the earlier post someone made about this being focused on fracturing the demographic is dead on. In this thread you unironically have people arguing that Elizabeth Warren is a suicide missile aimed at Bernie Sanders and I'm seeing the opposite too in other places and it's a load of nonsense. I think it's more who the attacks are from that makes it more panic-inducing. Bernie needs Warren's voters to beat Biden and it's becoming clear that even if she does drop out, she doesn't want her voters going to him, which seems a reversal from what a lot of us would've assumed a couple months ago. It makes Bernie's path to the nomination seem a lot harder if even the next-most progressive candidate (even if she's a very distant second) is actively trying to sink him.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:56
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I wasn't going to say anything about this private conversation, but when Bernie inexplicably denied my accusations about it I felt I had no choice.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:57
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Condiv posted:if it hasn't been posted yet Do they charge the campaign the amount of the refund and if so is there a way to track how much this poo poo will literally cost her
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Jan 14, 2020 02:59
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overmind2000 posted:Do they charge the campaign the amount of the refund and if so is there a way to track how much this poo poo will literally cost her no idea, but if you're taking money she's already spent, it will hurt her a lot
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Jan 14, 2020 03:01
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ImpAtom posted:I feel like the earlier post someone made about this being focused on fracturing the demographic is dead on. In this thread you unironically have people arguing that Elizabeth Warren is a suicide missile aimed at Bernie Sanders and I'm seeing the opposite too in other places and it's a load of nonsense. Pretty much this. 2016 Bernie was firmly enough second place that no one on either side had real reason to attack him on anything, and even some people who hated him had reason to boost him. Much like Kasich. Bernie actually in the top three means he's gonna get hit harder than this, just like any candidate with a real shot gets. Suck it up, and if you believe him hope he gets past.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:03
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My boomer mom has already conveyed to me that she doesn’t think a woman should run against Trump because they couldn’t beat him. And she had been considering Warren. But now that the Warren campaign has fully brought that argument out in the open, I think she’s done for. In an election where people are genuinely afraid of what they think can’t beat Trump, the last thing you want is a news cycle reinforcing those fears. The way to combat those fears is to stay on message and talk about the issues, but Warren absolutely sucks on the issues so she can’t exactly do that.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:03
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Harrow posted:I think it's more who the attacks are from that makes it more panic-inducing. Bernie needs Warren's voters to beat Biden and it's becoming clear that even if she does drop out, she doesn't want her voters going to him, which seems a reversal from what a lot of us would've assumed a couple months ago. It makes Bernie's path to the nomination seem a lot harder if even the next-most progressive candidate (even if she's a very distant second) is actively trying to sink him. I don't necessarily think that is clear. In some ways this is a repeat of 2016 where people were unironically arguing that Bernie wanted to sink Clinton. (Remember the weeks and weeks of 'he didn't do enough' stuff?) If Warren drops out I firmly believe she'll throw her backing behind Sanders unless it's some situation where Sanders is no longer even remotely in the running. (And I firmly believe Warren will drop long before Sanders will.) People are letting themselves get panicked and assuming everyone is their enemy and you can't do that. Freaking out and talking about how Elizabeth Warren is GOING TO RUIN EVERYTHING (and especially if you flip out at her supporters) is more likely to harm Bernie than she is. Take a deep breath and remember things have not even started yet. Likewise, remember that "Bernie is a misogynist" was always going to be an attack run against him and you drat well know the GOP was going to manufacture things about it regardless of truth. It is something his campaign is sure to be capable of handling. If Warren comes out tomorrow and is like "Actually yes BERNIE HATES WOMEN vote for Biden" then yeah, panic, but do you genuinely think the odds of that are true? Remember that, regardless of anything else, Bernie Sanders is capable and if you genuinely think he can be sunk by this then how the hell did you expect him to survive 2020 where you know Trump is going to spend the entire election hinting he killed a man in Vegas because Socialism or something. Trust the dude. If he's the campaigner he looks like then he'll be fine.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:03
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ImpAtom posted:I feel like the earlier post someone made about this being focused on fracturing the demographic is dead on. In this thread you unironically have people arguing that Elizabeth Warren is a suicide missile aimed at Bernie Sanders and I'm seeing the opposite too in other places and it's a load of nonsense. This isn't about fracturing the left because it's absolutely clear that the source for this is the Warren campaign. This is Warren's last ditch attempt at relevance. She tried to attach Biden and Buttgieg and the media didn't play, so she went for this. They may have not imagined that there would be blow back but it was 100% intended to weaken Bernie..
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Jan 14, 2020 03:04
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VH4Ever posted:Why are you so sure this hurts Bernie at all? Because, and I will bet good Monopoly Money on this, when they get around to asking Bernie about this, the moderator is going to come out swinging. "So Bernie, why do you hate women and want to abolish the 19th amendment?" Ytlaya posted:It's also possible that she dislikes Biden but realizes that siding with him over Bernie is better for her professionally (or at least believes that's the case). Regardless of what Warren personally believes, we know that she tends to make decisions with her career/ambitions in mind. This is almost certainly the case. She may hate Biden, but she loves the establishment. Through the lens of her values, such as they are, between Biden and Bernie, Biden is the lesser of two evils.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:04
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ImpAtom posted:I feel like the earlier post someone made about this being focused on fracturing the demographic is dead on. In this thread you unironically have people arguing that Elizabeth Warren is a suicide missile aimed at Bernie Sanders and I'm seeing the opposite too in other places and it's a load of nonsense. You do realize this is 100% Warrens doing? I am genuinely curious what rational motivation you see in this move that could possibly only hurt herself and Sanders. BioMe fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 03:06
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Condiv posted:if it hasn't been posted yet I just got an email from ActBlue saying they are experiencing higher than normal email volume, so they must be getting slammed over this.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:07
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BioMe posted:You do realize this is 100% Warrens doing? I am genuinely curious possible rational motivation you see in this move that could possibly only hurt herself and Sanders. It's the result of a lot of media attempts to manufacture this drama and the campaign making a misstep in trying to navigate around it without damaging themselves. In the Warren-supporting places I look in to they were pointing to "Sanders trashing Warren and then downplaying it as just his campaign" and now view this as 'playing by his rules.' I am not agreeing. I think Warren was stupid and made a mistake. I have a hard time believing she is willingly suiciding herself for Joe loving Biden of all people before the first primary has ever happened. The media loves a Narrative and "these two friends are FIGHTING, will their campaigns SURVIVE?" is a 'fun' narrative for them to gently caress around with. Don't let it throw you into a panic. Don't let it make you snap at people. Focus on why Sander should win and make sure that is the message people see. It's all you can do. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 03:11
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ImpAtom posted:If Warren comes out tomorrow and is like "Actually yes BERNIE HATES WOMEN vote for Biden" then yeah, panic, but do you genuinely think the odds of that are true? Given that her statement says she doesn’t want to talk about the dinner that’s probably zero. I wonder if we’ll get a second statement out of her after they realize that a bunch of the people giving them money also give Bernie money and they’re not happy with her anymore.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:12
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ImpAtom posted:It's the result of a lot of media attempts to manufacture this drama and the campaign making a misstep in trying to navigate around it without damaging themselves. In the Warren-supporting places I look in to they were pointing to "Sanders trashing Warren and then downplaying it as just his campaign" and now view this as 'playing by his rules.'  Hanlon's Razor and all that. I think her hatred of Biden still outweighs her wish to be someone's VP. She's just...not as smart as people think she is.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:12
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If Warren's strategy was to torpedo Bernie, then it wouldn't be for Biden's benefit. It would be for her own. She has to win Iowa or her campaign is done, she's 3rd in most polls of the state but not too far away from the lead, and so from a staffers' perspective this seems like the perfect kind of triangulating move between Biden's senility and "I like Bernie's ideas but he yells a lot" divisiveness. She put out this statement saying no hard feelings because she thinks progressives who are as yet undecided will flock to her. She does not have very good political acumen.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:16
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ImpAtom posted:It's the result of a lot of media attempts to manufacture this drama and the campaign making a misstep in trying to navigate around it without damaging themselves. In the Warren-supporting places I look in to they were pointing to "Sanders trashing Warren and then downplaying it as just his campaign" and now view this as 'playing by his rules.' Media didn't make Warren leak anything. EDIT: Like did they really panic and go ballistic with this misogyny smear after smelling the softest possible criticism form Bernie's campaign, which they likely didn't even use? Did they really think leaking a conversation between exactly 2 people wouldn't be immediately traced back and pressed further? Or that Sanders wouldn't be forced to defend himself? If so it was major error of judgment, not a tiny mistake. BioMe fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 03:16
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https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1216900014846377985 Pretty much this, except I still think Biden loses the nomination
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Jan 14, 2020 03:17
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Just in case people weren't sure that Warren is an opportunist not to be trusted, do your own research on the following: - When did Warren stop giving speeches to the federalist society? - When did Warren stop identifying as a republican? - When did Warren stop identifying as Native American? - When did Warren oppose single payer and when did Warren start supporting M4A? - When did Warren stop fundraising from billionaires? - When did Warren stop supporting charter schools? - When did Warren first publicly talk about supporting same sex marriage? - When did Warren stop vocally defending Israel? - When did Warren stop voting for military budget increases? - When did Warren decide that putting her pronouns on her twitter page was important? - When Bernie encouraged her to run in 2016, who did Warren endorse, and what did she say the same day that she announced her endorsement about being a VP? and finally, when did Warren finally decide to discuss a private meeting she had 2 years ago? We're not talking about 1 thing or 2 here, but a lifetime. And I guarantee that if you research every single one of these questions, you will find that the answer will be "around the time it was the most advantageous to her, personally." joepinetree fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 03:18
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Bernie's campaign survived a heart attack. He'll be fine.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:23
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This isn’t the end, Bernie has shrugged off worse mud slinging in the past and Sanders needs some of Lizzo’s gang to get over the top so now is the time to prove that Bernie supporters are above all that. Take a deep breath, we good.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:23
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https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1216896021323829248?s=20
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Jan 14, 2020 03:27
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If you’re angry and anxious about this then try phone banking or joining the text team like I decided to do today. Bernie has survived much worse than this.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:28
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I've added another donation on top of my monthly one. I am not anxious. This sort of stuff has no real impact on voters. If anything, I feel vindicated given the months of "she's almost as good, cmon" from presumably leftwing people.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:30
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Hahaha y'all are giving Warren's attack way too much credit. Bernie's fine, his campaign is fine, he's got an entire lifetime's worth of history backing him up here. This won't touch him but it's going to backfire on Warren so hard she's gonna look like a Looney tunes character with a sooty face and big saucer plate eyes that blink twice while an orchestral sting plays her off with a "wahh-wahhhh"
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Jan 14, 2020 03:31
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It's really telling that Warren refuses to quote him directly and just does this mealy-mouth "I said a woman can win, he disagreed" nonsense while blaming the controversy on him even though she leaked it. She doesn't have the courage to lie to his face at the debate if she can't even do it in a prepared statement.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:32
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Judakel posted:Feel free to ask the Warren campaign for donation refunds. info@elizabethwarren.com I've heard to ask through act blue https://twitter.com/OnThisIAm1/status/1216823277638701056?s=19
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Jan 14, 2020 03:34
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joepinetree posted:Just in case people weren't sure that Warren is an opportunist not to be trusted, do your own research on the following: You’re taking the bait. In this election, the only thing that works is to enthusiastically say why you’re for Bernie and to tell your own story. Who benefits if you start acting like the hillary shills say Bernie people say behave? Stay positive and don’t let yourself get mad at Warren. It only hurts you.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:34
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curiousCat posted:I'm sick of the warren/bernie crap today, like what the heck Her campaign is down and looking for a Hail Mary. It's unfortunate, but this is the path they've chosen to take. Things were remarkably uneventful up until now.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:40
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I've heard to ask through act blue I requested a refund and received this in reply: quote:Hello! Once the refund goes through, I'll just re-donate the whole thing to Bernie. I was dumb as poo poo for donating to Warren in the first place.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:40
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:You’re taking the bait. In this election, the only thing that works is to enthusiastically say why you’re for Bernie and to tell your own story. Who benefits if you start acting like the hillary shills say Bernie people say behave? Yes, you're right, we should roll over and capitulate and pretend that this blatant hitjob didn't happen and that we're all one big happy family. We shouldn't rock the boat. It is imperative that decorum is preserved and the unhinged lunatics that have been frothing at the mouth for 4 years don't get any ammo. When They Go Low, We Go High. Please, fellow bernard brothers, please stop reacting to the knife in your gut, it only makes you deserve it more
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Jan 14, 2020 03:41
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Hahaha y'all are giving Warren's attack way too much credit. Bernie's fine, his campaign is fine, he's got an entire lifetime's worth of history backing him up here. You’re three months away from Trump talking on stage about the Democrats long-standing ‘women problem’ and how they hate successful women like Ivanka and Thatcher. It’ll become a narrative that a press desperately searching for equivalency will latch on to and will feed a platoon of talking heads for the election.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:42
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I am going to add that of the people I follow that are Warren or Biden or Buttigieg supporters (people I know in real life) none of them have said s loving word about the story. I've only seen it from bluecheck pundits and Hillary dead-enders who don't use their real name.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:42
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I am going to add that of the people I follow that are Warren or Biden or Buttigieg supporters (people I know in real life) none of them have said s loving word about the story. I've only seen it from bluecheck pundits and Hillary dead-enders who don't use their real name. The Buttigieg supporter I talk with acknowledged that it's an obvious hatchet-job so that's kind of reassuring tbh.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:43
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I just can't get over how weak of an attack it is. If Warren had just been like, "hey look at this essay Bernie wrote 30 years ago about how much women love rape!" it would've sucked, but at least it's a real attack. Or if they had made up an actual damaging lie! But instead they made up an incredibly weak lie, saying he said something that a lot of Dem voters actually think is the reason Hillary lost. And she won't even stand behind her weak lie! Absolute cowardice, at every level.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:44
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B B posted:Once the refund goes through, I'll just re-donate the whole thing to Bernie. I was dumb as poo poo for donating to Warren in the first place. Me too. Thanks for sharing the directions, everyone! Did it while watching LSU/Clemson on my phone.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:46
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Malleum posted:Yes, you're right, we should roll over and capitulate and pretend that this blatant hitjob didn't happen and that we're all one big happy family. We shouldn't rock the boat. It is imperative that decorum is preserved and the unhinged lunatics that have been frothing at the mouth for 4 years don't get any ammo. When They Go Low, We Go High. The point is, studies show that arguing doesn’t do poo poo to persuade anyone but sticking to why you support Bernie and what his great policies are is a much more effective use of your time. If you wanna be mad and huff and puff about it on Twitter, by all means. We all need to vent. Hell I’ve been doing it all day on Twitter and need to stop. But just realize it’s a cathartic thing for you, it’s not actually moving the needle.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:47
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I am going to add that of the people I follow that are Warren or Biden or Buttigieg supporters (people I know in real life) none of them have said s loving word about the story. I've only seen it from bluecheck pundits and Hillary dead-enders who don't use their real name. Right now it's mostly contained to the Extremely Online contingent, but we'll see what the morning news looks like. WAPO will probably run with this on the front page. It will be pitched as a debate question. It will be brought up by talking heads on CNN and MSNBC all day, etc.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:47
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/1216887354125885440
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Jan 14, 2020 03:48
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Just donated to Bernie again. Joining the text team tomorrow.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:48
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I think the real worry here for Bernie is the confirmation that, yes, the media are so desperate for anything they can use as ammo against him that they'll run literally anything, but at the same time I think it's also incredibly telling that this is the best idea they had
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Jan 14, 2020 03:50
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