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You don't gently caress with spaceships in IBO. One of the only times you'll see multiple Gundams go "gently caress, there's more than one grunt ship"
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Jan 14, 2020 17:21
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Nuebot posted:I really wish F91 would get some kind of remake. I liked it a lot even though it is what it is, and I love the F91's design. I’m not a huge fan of Gundam (that’s not exactly correct, it’s more like I’m accursed to be drawn to Gundam forever despite finding the writing almost universally repellent,) and I recognize 0080 as a near perfect anime. Near perfect because of that horrible epilogue tape scene, which completely deflates the meticulously orchestrated drama that came before it and takes Bernie from a tragic hero to a selfish buffoon who was justifiably pancaked by the Alex.
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Jan 14, 2020 18:13
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thetoughestbean posted:I’ve actually seen Build Fighters as well and enjoyed it, but I did have some problems with it (mostly how dang straight it was, almost every female character had a moment where they stopped being their own character and just became part of The Girlfriends) i think it'd be more difficult to find a gundam that doesn't match up with this to some significant degree. not all gundams are gonna have everything you've talked about here, but any of the ones that people consider "good" are going to hit a couple of these points pretty strongly (grittiness that serves the themes is gonna be fairly prevalent)
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Jan 14, 2020 20:24
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Following up on my comment about being cursed by an interest in Gundam, are there any (Gundam or other) series that people would recommend that skew more towards “real robot”? It seems like Gundam is sort of the cream of the crop in that field, and I am just endlessly fascinated by the hard sci-fi stuff therein. I also think that when it’s well directed, Gundam has some of the best action scenes I’ve ever seen in anime. And the visuals and design and pretty much everything in the UC universe except the characters are phenomenal. But I really dislike the writing most of the time, and all the stuff with newtypes, funnels, and elaborate hero suits totally loses me. I do like 0080 (except for the very end, as mentioned above,) and 0083 is alright but also sort of goes off the rails writing-wise in the last couple of episodes (didn’t the original writer die in production or something?) I enjoyed Thunderbolt, but I didn’t keep watching after the initial three episodes because I heard it gets pretty bad too. I sort of bounced off IBO after a few episodes, but I may give it another go. For non-Gundam stuff, I really like Armored Trooper VOTOMS and Armor Hunter Mellowlink.
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Jan 14, 2020 20:48
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IBO is a flawed show for sure, but it does deliver on the more "if these things where real they'd be horrifying" angle. Mika is... complicated, and the show doesn't shy from it.
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Jan 14, 2020 20:53
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Anonymous Robot posted:Following up on my comment about being cursed by an interest in Gundam, are there any (Gundam or other) series that people would recommend that skew more towards “real robot”? It seems like Gundam is sort of the cream of the crop in that field, and I am just endlessly fascinated by the hard sci-fi stuff therein. I also think that when it’s well directed, Gundam has some of the best action scenes I’ve ever seen in anime. And the visuals and design and pretty much everything in the UC universe except the characters are phenomenal. Patlabor 2 sounds like what you want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsMTpSDAGxM The visuals and music/sound design of the film are absolutely fantastic. The F-16 scramble mission is a really exciting set piece with no actual action taking place, and the wordless landscape shots and city occupation scenes with Kenji Kawai's ambient soundtrack are breathtakingly well put together too, really telling the story of the film as much as the characters and dialogue do. You've also got mecha desigh by Yutaka Izubuchi, who worked on Char's Counterattack and 0080. Link to the F-16 sequence so everyone who's already seen the film can watch it again cause it loving rules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTHeQu3S98E jackhunter64 fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 21:12
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I will give that a watch, thanks. I know that I tried to watch something Patlabor once- I don’t recall if it was the first movie or the series- but it didn’t really grab me. It sounds great though! I’ve been watching this youtube account that edits together clips of every time a particular mobile suit appears in the various series, and there’s so many cool little details that I do not want to wade through scenes of baroque Gundam dialogue to get to lmao. Between that and watching the intro scenes to F91 I’ve got mecha fever again.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:17
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RillAkBea posted:I think a big part of the appeal of the IBO fights for a lot of fans is that it came off the back of a string of beam spam/superweapon heavy series and it was nice to see some good old-fashioned physical violence On this note, IBO units are hilariously powerful in the new G Generation game. The other series featured are Wing, SEED and 00, where most of the high-level enemies have entirely energy-based loadouts. Even a basic Graze can shrug off a ridiculous amount of punishment thanks to nanolaminate armor, and the top-tier units like Bael and the Reginlaze Julia are unstoppable monsters.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:19
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Anonymous Robot posted:Following up on my comment about being cursed by an interest in Gundam, are there any (Gundam or other) series that people would recommend that skew more towards “real robot”? It seems like Gundam is sort of the cream of the crop in that field, and I am just endlessly fascinated by the hard sci-fi stuff therein. I also think that when it’s well directed, Gundam has some of the best action scenes I’ve ever seen in anime. And the visuals and design and pretty much everything in the UC universe except the characters are phenomenal. This is a bit of a wild one, but Xabungle is a really good real robot show. The thing is, it's basically a comedy, with lots of zany hi-jinx. But the robots are just machines that run on gas. Like, after each fight they go out and siphon gas from the downed robots. And since it's a comedy some of the fights get really fun and creative. 
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Jan 14, 2020 21:22
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Anonymous Robot posted:Following up on my comment about being cursed by an interest in Gundam, are there any (Gundam or other) series that people would recommend that skew more towards “real robot”? It seems like Gundam is sort of the cream of the crop in that field, and I am just endlessly fascinated by the hard sci-fi stuff therein. I also think that when it’s well directed, Gundam has some of the best action scenes I’ve ever seen in anime. And the visuals and design and pretty much everything in the UC universe except the characters are phenomenal. 08th MS Team is the gold standard to me of realism type mecha in Gundam series. Plus the designs are really cool.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:22
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Apprentice Dick posted:08th MS Team is the gold standard to me of realism type mecha in Gundam series. Plus the designs are really cool. Sorry, I meant 08th MS team when I was referring to 0083 above, I got mixed up. It is, for the most part, really good. I just think the ending and the way they handled the antagonist were sorely lacking.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:27
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Patlabor 2 is a really bad Patlabor film, but a quite good film outside of that. Also, there's a general mecha thread for general mecha stuff.  If you don't want any newtypes or Gundams, then Gundam is probably not the franchise for you because those are core elements and they recur in almost every show in some way or another (even in the ground-level Universal Century OVAs like 0080 and 08th MS which have already been mentioned have these as background elements somewhere). Watch IBO if you absolutely want to see a full-length, Gundam-adjacent show. It's the closest you'll get to a Gundam show that tries to use more "real" explanations for its super ace pilots and hero suits, but ironically enough, you say you bounced off it. Also, just watch Turn-A. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 21:49
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Anonymous Robot posted:Following up on my comment about being cursed by an interest in Gundam, are there any (Gundam or other) series that people would recommend that skew more towards “real robot”? It seems like Gundam is sort of the cream of the crop in that field, and I am just endlessly fascinated by the hard sci-fi stuff therein. I also think that when it’s well directed, Gundam has some of the best action scenes I’ve ever seen in anime. And the visuals and design and pretty much everything in the UC universe except the characters are phenomenal. Have you looked at Macross? I'm thinking particularly of the original series and Frontier. There's much less emphasis on "hero mechs", in that even when the protagonist has a better machine than the general background NPC, it's still an off-the-shelf unit that at least a handful of supporting characters will also have; and what newtypish stuff there is is very grounded in the setting's physics.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:09
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Macross is a real blind spot for me when it comes to classic anime, I will check it out. Also, that Xabungle show looks dope.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:10
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Tae posted:You don't gently caress with spaceships in IBO. One of the only times you'll see multiple Gundams go "gently caress, there's more than one grunt ship" I mean, this is mainly because the spaceships aren't important in just about all the other shows. Like going by their listed technical specs they SHOULD generally be pretty significant dangers, but in the shows they just explode after a few shots unless it's a protag ship. Seriously, grunt mobile suits can occasionally take more punishment, and are you really saying something outmassing that by an order of magnitude is less durable?
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Jan 14, 2020 22:26
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Zedd posted:IBO is a flawed show for sure, but it does deliver on the more "if these things where real they'd be horrifying" angle. Mika is... complicated, and the show doesn't shy from it. There are also discussions about the costs of ammunition and the protagonists are constantly stripping parts off of their fallen foes for their own use. The look of the mechs change from episode to episode (something I couldn't really notice until I started building gunpla, incidentally) and even in the OPs.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:33
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Lord Koth posted:I mean, this is mainly because the spaceships aren't important in just about all the other shows. Like going by their listed technical specs they SHOULD generally be pretty significant dangers, but in the shows they just explode after a few shots unless it's a protag ship. Seriously, grunt mobile suits can occasionally take more punishment, and are you really saying something outmassing that by an order of magnitude is less durable? I always figured that this was because mobile suits are basically designed to counter other mobile suits; they can explode, sure, but short of a total detonation they’re only truly compromised if the small cockpit is destroyed. A ship, on the other hand, has a large portion of very fragile weak points anywhere that it has crew or cargo. Given the massive destructive potential of beam weaponry and even some solid shell weapons (you can see flechette ammo eradicating frigates in Gundam,) the name of the game is using mobile suit sorties to keep enemy forces far, far away from any ships or colonies, or they’re just toast.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:11
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Kinda reminds me of how someone on another forum ages ago pointed out that the least realistic thing in Gundam is probably how fragile Colonies are, the reality is that a properly built space colony should basically be all but indestructible to any weapons known to man cause even at the thinnest points it's still probably at least several meters of material thick
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Jan 14, 2020 23:18
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drrockso20 posted:Kinda reminds me of how someone on another forum ages ago pointed out that the least realistic thing in Gundam is probably how fragile Colonies are, the reality is that a properly built space colony should basically be all but indestructible to any weapons known to man cause even at the thinnest points it's still probably at least several meters of material thick Also I think people overlook Macross both because it almost entirely doesn't exist in the west and because of all that girly singing poo poo
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Jan 14, 2020 23:24
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It makes some sense once you’ve accepted the handwaving technology. Beam weaponry can penetrate anything (not coated in beam-scattering chemicals, which are presumably prohibitively expensive,) and Minovsky particles prevent the use of super long-range weaponry, landing you with something roughly approximate to pre-V2 WWII in terms of strategy and technological state.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:25
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Nessus posted:Isn't the colony-popping thing only really in SEED It happens regularly in UC stuff and seems like basically any weapon shot near a colony will cause it to explosively decompress.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:30
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Lemon-Lime posted:It happens regularly in UC stuff and seems like basically any weapon shot near a colony will cause it to explosively decompress. Yeah, a lot of the time they poke a hole through the side using nothing but the planet Earth.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:33
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UC seems to be pretty consistent about only beam weapons and reactor explosions (basically nukes) being able to pop colonies. It's why you see suits like the Kampfer and Loto, which are equipped with only conventional ranged weaponry so they can safely fight inside colonies.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:35
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Colonies in Gundam are incredibly strong but depressingly so are the weapons. Beam Weapons are so common the we forget even the weakest of them are loving insane and late-stage stuff is basically capable of breaking through *anything* with enough effort. The reason that relatively few colonies are popped is because it is *the* war crime. Pop a colony and even many of your own side says gently caress you. The only thing worse are colony drops and nukes. Both of which often go hand in hand with destroying a colony ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 23:37
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Incidentally, seeing Missing Link stuff in games and hearing bits of the soundtrack does make me wish I could experience it a bit more. It pulls off that tacticool look on OYW-era tech in a pretty fun way - the Pale Rider in particular is one of the more badass Fed suits I've seen (and is excellent in Gundam Versus).
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Jan 14, 2020 23:45
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Anonymous Robot posted:Beam weaponry can penetrate anything (not coated in beam-scattering chemicals, which are presumably prohibitively expensive,) I'm pretty sure The O could tank a beam or two simply because it's armor was so thick and heavy, and that the Sazabi followed that route too. If you can make a mobile suit solid enough to block a beam or two, there's really no reason a colony shouldn't be fine for at least a few shots even from bigger battleship beams. ImpAtom posted:The reason that relatively few colonies are popped is because it is *the* war crime. Pop a colony and even many of your own side says gently caress you. Wait...when has anyone ever done that? The only time I can even think of people from any faction turning on that faction for any reason is in the creation of AEUG, and even then it was because the Titans gassed a colony and killed all the people inside; not because they destroyed the colony itself. I can't think of a single example of anyone, in any setting, turning against their faction for destroying colonies.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:57
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tsob posted:
In Stardust Memories the Zeon's who were part of the whole operation throw a space city at Australia were pariahs and only tolerated by the others because they were desperate.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:14
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tsob posted:I'm pretty sure The O could tank a beam or two simply because it's armor was so thick and heavy, and that the Sazabi followed that route too. If you can make a mobile suit solid enough to block a beam or two, there's really no reason a colony shouldn't be fine for at least a few shots even from bigger battleship beams. 'pop' in this case being anything that endangers or kills the population of a colony
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Jan 15, 2020 00:16
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Baka-nin posted:In Stardust Memories the Zeon's who were part of the whole operation throw a space city at Australia were pariahs and only tolerated by the others because they were desperate. In Char’s Counterattack, some Zeon pilots also turn on Char to help keep Axis from falling on the earth.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:27
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Anonymous Robot posted:In Char’s Counterattack, some Zeon pilots also turn on Char to help keep Axis from falling on the earth. considering that was very explicitly the plan from the beginning i never really understood why they suddenly changed their minds on that
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Jan 15, 2020 00:28
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Baka-nin posted:In Stardust Memories the Zeon's who were part of the whole operation throw a space city at Australia were pariahs and only tolerated by the others because they were desperate. That's only in side material though, and even then, the actual Mayfly of Space animations to give a bit more background for Cima included on the bluray appear to contradict it since they have Cima being rejected for the Federation's amnesty specifically because she refused to give up her ship and not because she was a pariah of any kind. ImpAtom posted:'pop' in this case being anything that endangers or kills the population of a colony AEUG are still the only case of it though, and various flavors of Zeon regularly endangered or killed the population of colonies without anyone batting an eye so far as we know, along with Cosmo Babylonia. ninjewtsu posted:considering that was very explicitly the plan from the beginning i never really understood why they suddenly changed their minds on that It was not only explicitly the plan, their faction had already dropped Fifth Luna on Lhasa. They weren't objecting to people killing a colony or it's residents, they definitively say it's because it's worth a shot to save the Earth. I've always figured it was because Zeon people always act like the Federation have no creed or ideals, and their soldiers are just stooges being used by the man (Char gives out to Amuro about this only a few minutes earlier), so seeing a bunch of Federation soldiers (reinforcement GMIII's had just rushed past them seconds before hand) doing something completely insane in a futile effort to save the planet made them realize those pilots did have some ideals and the Earth was worth saving. tsob fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 00:29
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ninjewtsu posted:considering that was very explicitly the plan from the beginning i never really understood why they suddenly changed their minds on that They legitimately may not have known. It was a secret plan, with at least the Federation believing that Zeon wanted to settle Axis. What’s stranger is that the Feds were willing to let Zeon just take over the nuclear stockpile on Axis.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:31
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Anonymous Robot posted:They legitimately may not have known. It was a secret plan, with at least the Federation believing that Zeon wanted to settle Axis. What’s stranger is that the Feds were willing to let Zeon just take over the nuclear stockpile on Axis. They didn't. The nuclear stockpile is at 2nd Luna, not Axis. Char raids it and takes the nukes, and that action is what lets Londo Bell know Char has reneged on his deal and gives them the authority to attack Char; since Adaneur Paraya said they could only do so if it was obvious Char was going to betray the deal. Also, Char's speech at Axis to his men specifically mentions the plan so they definitely knew about it. Neo Zeon broadcast a fake speech to the Federation, which a snippet of can be heard in the background of a scene a minute or two later as a Federation official is talking on the bridge of a ship, but the real speech has him announcing Neo Zeon are going to take the Earth out of the equation because it's always the source of conflict.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:35
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ninjewtsu posted:considering that was very explicitly the plan from the beginning i never really understood why they suddenly changed their minds on that Because the gravity (heh) of their action suddenly hit them. When Earth is an abstract image of the corrupt Federation government, it's easier to feel good about dropping a meteor than it is to do it when you're getting psychic visions of children desperately praying for Londo Bell to save them.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:37
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Anonymous Robot posted:It makes some sense once you’ve accepted the handwaving technology. Beam weaponry can penetrate anything (not coated in beam-scattering chemicals, which are presumably prohibitively expensive,) and Minovsky particles prevent the use of super long-range weaponry, landing you with something roughly approximate to pre-V2 WWII in terms of strategy and technological state. Even most beam weapons should have a hard time doing any significant damage, people vastly underestimate how durable even regular concrete or glass can be once you layer it thick enough Lemon-Lime posted:It happens regularly in UC stuff and seems like basically any weapon shot near a colony will cause it to explosively decompress. Which is also something that is incredibly unrealistic, a hole in a colony the size of the ones we usually see in Gundam would not cause that kind of reaction*, sure there would be a leak of atmosphere but it wouldn't be an explosive vacuum *not even going into the fact that the "glass" used in a real space colony would probably be thicker than a Mobile Suit is tall and the material used to make it probably more durable and heavy that anything a Mobile Suit could ever use(like realistically even a nuke going off point blank would basically only do some very minor and superficial damage)
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Jan 15, 2020 00:52
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This conversation is reminding me of the time an Earth Sciences professor sprung a dirty trick on us at the final exam by asking us to propose a plan for a habitable space colony, a topic we never covered in the course. Having seen plenty of Gundam, I was just like *cracks fingers* for starters we’re going to need a concrete cylinder one mile in diameter.
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Jan 15, 2020 01:04
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tsob posted:That's only in side material though, and even then, the actual Mayfly of Space animations to give a bit more background for Cima included on the bluray appear to contradict it since they have Cima being rejected for the Federation's amnesty specifically because she refused to give up her ship and not because she was a pariah of any kind. ? I wasn't talking about the federation, the pariah status was from the rest of the zeon, like you know Gato, who is clearly disgusted that he has to work with her. And nah, both versions of Mayfly make it pretty clear she's been haunted for years by what she did and has abandonment issues. The second one really makes it clear she's bitter about being treated like an outcast for years even amongst the rest of the holdouts until they need her and her crew.
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Jan 15, 2020 01:13
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https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/1217244698508611585?s=20
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Jan 15, 2020 01:40
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 "Torilgy"
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Jan 15, 2020 01:42
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Lemon-Lime posted:Also, just watch Turn-A. Evergreen advice. It's just a beautifully made world and a good show. Syd Mead worked on it so most of the designs aren't, like, instantly recognizable as Gundam(tm). I fuckin love the WaDom. It's like the tripods from War of the Worlds.
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