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Tbf, comparing someone to the practical incarnation doesn't really put them in the best light. He was very much the villain of PS:T. Well, one of them. I honestly don't really think Evrart (and by extension his brother) cares too much about the union as an ideological project, nor the union members involved. I think they just see it as their path to more power and influence. They've picked their team and they're sticking with it. I don't doubt that he's legitimately fighting for a stronger position for the Union, and better conditions for its members, but it really feels like he's mostly just doing it to further his own position.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:56
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Broken Cog posted:Tbf, comparing someone to the practical incarnation doesn't really put them in the best light. He was very much the villain of PS:T. Well, one of them. The Deserter seems to think that Edgar is a true believer, although he also remarks that Edgar might have just been saying the things he wanted to hear. The vibe I get from Evrart is that he does genuinely want to improve the standard of living for the union members, but also his own, even though his own standard of living is already better than most of the union. Basically "a rising tide lifts all ships - but especially mine". He sees populism as a path to power, but also understands he actually has to deliver on the promises he makes to be able to hold on to that power.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:33
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Evrart believes in socialism (Empathy, Suggestion, Rhetoric and et al confirm this), but he and his brother also believe that their take is the right one and thus they are justified in their actions. To put it in another way, they are personalists, which is the historical bane of all collectivist ideologies. There is a great ironic twist in that Joyce, even though can be considered far more corrupt ideologically, has a greater moral integrity than Evrart by a mile. The best way to illustrate that would be exchanging their roles: Joyce as an union leader would be a formidable organizer and a true democratic socialist, creating a far stronger movement in the long run. Evrart as a member of a board of directors? He wouldn't bother with a little group of mercenaries to "show force", rather put them to blackmail, kidnap and murder outright the main débardeurs at the front of the union.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:51
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TommyGun85 posted:Im on Day 5, Ive found Morell and its not there. It’s nowhere near Morell and I have no idea why OP thinks it has anything to do with that quest. It’s in one of the shacks along the southern edge of the map once you’re over the water lock. No checks that I’m aware of, but maybe you need some amount of perception to spot the container
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Jan 15, 2020 02:52
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Oh my bad, for some reason I thought they were tied, and I haven't found him yet. But yeah I thought I mentioned that it was in the fishing village either way. And like I said, my perception is really low, like 2 or 3, but maybe it's tied to another stat.
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Jan 15, 2020 04:45
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Your OOC perception is probably more important. Gotta wander through a hole in a fence S ish of bridge. SE of the drunks. IGN has a wiki page with a picture of where the tape is. https://uk.ign.com/wikis/disco-elysium/Sing_karaoke
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Jan 15, 2020 05:03
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dead gay comedy forums posted:Evrart believes in socialism (Empathy, Suggestion, Rhetoric and et al confirm this), but he and his brother also believe that their take is the right one and thus they are justified in their actions. Not only is Joyce ideologically corrupt but personally moral, she, unlike a lot of liberals even acknowledges historical materialism as a legitimate analytical tool for looking at history, and uses it to explain the reason why the initial revolution happened (the disease broke an already strained system). If she were more of an ideologue she would have just agreed with the dialogue choice where you say "well the disease must have driven everyone crazy."
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Jan 15, 2020 07:26
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Okay, I get this is supposed to be a good game, but I'm constantly dying because of silly things. I lost all my moral looking at a pinball game, i died when sitting on a chair, i died when walking down stairs. Like how are you meant to progress when doing basic things are going to end the game for you? All the hints I find online say "put more xp into moral/physical" yea that's a good idea but i'm literally 10 minutes into the game and haven't even gotten a single level yet. I've tried restarting about 4 times with custom characters but so far nothing has helped. I'm going to try again with a perfectly balanced character with 3s in everything and see if that helps. If not, I guess editor? I'm just so sick of talking to that stupid kid by the body.
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Jan 15, 2020 07:42
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twistedmentat posted:Okay, I get this is supposed to be a good game, but I'm constantly dying because of silly things. I lost all my moral looking at a pinball game, i died when sitting on a chair, i died when walking down stairs. Yea, we all needed an editor just to make it through the game. But for reals, get healing supplies and you can heal yourself during conversations so you can stay alive.
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Jan 15, 2020 07:47
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chaosapiant posted:Yea, we all needed an editor just to make it through the game. How though? I find 40 cents at the start and i cannot buy anything. As I said, i'm literally at the start of the game and minor things are causing it to end.
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Jan 15, 2020 07:49
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twistedmentat posted:How though? I find 40 cents at the start and i cannot buy anything. As I said, i'm literally at the start of the game and minor things are causing it to end. I don’t want to spoil anything because the best parts of this game are what you discover; but the loading screen tool-tips give a lot of very important information, including how to make some money. You can also press (I think) F1 to get a splash screen that shows you every aspect of the interface and how it works. I’m pretty sure it was F1.
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Jan 15, 2020 07:51
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chaosapiant posted:I don’t want to spoil anything because the best parts of this game are what you discover; but the loading screen tool-tips give a lot of very important information, including how to make some money. You can also press (I think) F1 to get a splash screen that shows you every aspect of the interface and how it works. I’m pretty sure it was F1. Yea i saw you can recycle and stuff, but as I said, that option isn't available to me. Like I've died in the lobby of the hostel twice, before talking to Kusinagi. Well, not died but my moral became empty but its still game over.
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Jan 15, 2020 07:54
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twistedmentat posted:Okay, I get this is supposed to be a good game, but I'm constantly dying because of silly things. I lost all my moral looking at a pinball game, i died when sitting on a chair, i died when walking down stairs. PSY and PHYS are the stats that determine your health, so make sure those aren't like super low. If you find out something is gonna do a lot of damage, go do something else or look around for healing supplies first. You have a ton of options once you get out of the hotel, and just chatting with people will get you plenty of XP, you don't need to dive into the case headfirst. This game doesn't have combat (or at least, not much), which means that risky actions can come up in all sorts of situations, including sitting in extremely uncomfortable chairs or getting depressed thinking about old pinball machines. You have to approach things more carefully. Also, the game has quick save and quick load for a reason, you really don't have to repeat content over and over. If something is giving you a lot of trouble, just savescum it. There is no RCM of video games that is gonna come and give you a fine.
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Jan 15, 2020 08:02
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You really shouldn't put PHYS and PSY lower than 2 your first time through the game. Volumetric poo poo Compressor helps if you have mediocre PHYS like I did, thanks to that I had more Endurance than I really needed. Also critical health works like in the Mother games where it ticks down so you can save yourself with a health item before it kills you. Also the game gives you a ton of health items, I was just hoarding them all because I didn't really need them that much aside from a few endgame scenes. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 08:06
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Yea I think this 3 in every stat character is working out because i managed to get to the radio and not get so depressed I gave up or have a heart attack walking 3 feet. You're right about save scuming though, that is what i need to do. It just felt like I was dying at the start of skyrim and the advice I was finding was "use your shouts".
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Jan 15, 2020 08:10
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While save scumming death is fine, I wouldn’t save scum failed conversation checks that don’t result in death. Failure in this game is (mostly) a valid and entertaining way of moving forward.
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Jan 15, 2020 08:12
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chaosapiant posted:While save scumming death is fine, I wouldn’t save scum failed conversation checks that don’t result in death. Failure in this game is (mostly) a valid and entertaining way of moving forward. Oh no, as i said i've done this a few times and every dialog has been slightly different. Just that drat kid. God drat i wanna punch him.
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Jan 15, 2020 08:21
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Very minor spoiler regarding how to make money at the start by recycling: You can find a plastic bag down the steps across the road from the book store. Equip it (not just hold it in your inventory) and you'll be able to see bottles to pick up and recycle at the Frittte store, which is next door to the hotel, towards the docks. This is also where you can buy healing items for both health and morale. You can also pawn stuff at the pawn shop southwest from the hotel. Postcards have no other use and are always safe to sell. If you're still having money problems some NPCs can give you money and you should run into most of them in the first day or two if you're following the main quest at all. Do make sure to have enough money to pay your hotel bill on the second night or you can end up in a soft-locked game state. This is pretty easy to avoid if you know about it, just try not to buy anything other than healing stuff until you have that sorted. Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 08:30
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Oh I was wondering where I can find a bag! I figured I had to buy something and i'd get a bag that way.
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Jan 15, 2020 08:50
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Other thing is, if you hold tab it'll highlight stuff you can interact with. There's a ton of money and healing items and whatnot lying around.
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Jan 15, 2020 09:00
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twistedmentat posted:Oh no, as i said i've done this a few times and every dialog has been slightly different. Just that drat kid. God drat i wanna punch him. Ok, go ahead and punch him! Kim hates it, but Cuno respects that violent poo poo
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Jan 15, 2020 09:20
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Imhotep posted:Also, as a weirdo who likes to record poo poo with contact mics and make field recordings to use in my Anodic disco tracks (or whatever you wanna call them, man), that little conversation you have with the girl who's freezing outside recording stuff with the contact microphone on the ice is really dope. I think it only happens if you pass a white, maybe even a red check and I had a kind of low chance of passing, but she starts to tel herself how stupid it is what she's doing, but Harry's like 'you see this?' *points to tape recorder and microphone* 'You can do *anything* with this', or something a lot less cheesy and tells her that it's really cool what she's doing, which encourages her and convinces her that it is indeed cool and she shouldn't give up. It was absolutely heartwarming and in a game I could already relate to more than any other game with a choice based dialogue system that results in different outcomes, it was extremely cool and felt like an actual personal moment between me and an NPC. And here all I did was rant angrily at her about having sex with a hat.
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Jan 15, 2020 09:26
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twistedmentat posted:Oh no, as i said i've done this a few times and every dialog has been slightly different. Just that drat kid. God drat i wanna punch him. Go on pig, fuckin' punch Cuno! this guy is gonna point the gun at Cuno. Also, yeah re: Evrart, I realized that he's not meant to be 'evil', or the villain necessarily, but I still had to trick her into signing it, she mentions hating him, and also Evrart responds to your concerns by saying something like 'oh it's only 6 months of construction noise day and night that they have to deal with, they'll be fine', so I felt bad about the whole lying to her to pass an empathy check then getting her to sign it right after she explained why she didn't like him.
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Jan 15, 2020 09:58
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i punched cuno lol i legitimately freaked out when they started shouting for help
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Jan 15, 2020 10:43
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Imhotep posted:Go on pig, fuckin' punch Cuno! You can fake the signatures if you check out the letter beforehand.
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Jan 15, 2020 11:23
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Failing the check to punch Cuno is funny as gently caress.
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Jan 15, 2020 11:45
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twistedmentat posted:Oh I was wondering where I can find a bag! I figured I had to buy something and i'd get a bag that way. If you run into anyone rich, consider asking them for money.
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Jan 15, 2020 13:10
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I wrote this (and a bunch of other guides) for you: http://www.beforeiplay.com/index.php?title=Disco_Elysium
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Jan 15, 2020 14:11
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Broken Cog posted:Tbf, comparing someone to the practical incarnation doesn't really put them in the best light. He was very much the villain of PS:T. Well, one of them. You say that but the quest to reclaim your mortality and free yourself from the planes (and the planes from you) would have failed without him. Every single machination he performed or put in motion ended up with it working, and to your benefit. Were it not for the Paranoid Incarnation, Nameless One would be able to get to the Fortress of Regrets within hours of waking up as the incarnation that finally doesn't forget. There is a reason he's called the 'practical', not the 'evil' one. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 14:36
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dex_sda posted:You say that but the quest to reclaim your mortality and free yourself from the planes (and the planes from you) would have failed without him. Every single machination he performed or put in motion ended up with it working, and to your benefit. Were it not for the Paranoid Incarnation, Nameless One would be able to get to the Fortress of Regrets within hours of waking up as the incarnation that finally doesn't forget. There is a reason he's called the 'practical', not the 'evil' one. Oh sure it worked in the end, but the steps he had to take to get there pretty much put him in the "irredeemable shithead" category. Not to mention that iirc, there's actually a way to kill yourself forever in PS:T that doesn't involve making use of all the insane machinations he set up. Edit: Oh, and if I remember correctly, he actually tries to take over your body when you finally meet him. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 14:49
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Broken Cog posted:Oh sure it worked in the end, but the steps he had to take to get there pretty much put him in the "irredeemable shithead" category. You still need to manage to get into the Fortress of Regrets, which requires his machinations. I am not arguing he's not an irredeemable shithead. But if you want a "person who achieves a moral goal by any means possible, including deeply immoral ones" that is what the Practical Incarnation is an avatar of. e; his reasoning for trying to take over your body, while obviously selfish in the extreme, is also because he considers himself the most capable of facing The Transcendent One and winning. And it is not a statement that is easy to refute, he really was a scarily competent monster. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 14:55
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Broken Cog posted:Oh sure it worked in the end, but the steps he had to take to get there pretty much put him in the "irredeemable shithead" category. The other way is waaay worse morally wasn't it? If it's what I am thinking.
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Jan 15, 2020 14:58
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Fangz posted:The other way is waaay worse morally wasn't it? If it's what I am thinking. Also, yeah, you need to do something far worse than the Practical Incarnation did to get the tool you need (release a being of pure destructive entropy into the planes). And you still need to get to the Fortress of Regrets, which still requires all the poo poo Practical did for you.
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Jan 15, 2020 14:59
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It's actually a very interesting contrast in P:T: The Good Incarnation seems to have empathy, remorse, and decency. They did something evil (starting off the Blood War is implied in and out of the game but what he did exactly is ambiguous), but the only selfish thing he then wants is more time to be good, to atone. This screws up everything. By contrast, Practical is a shithead. He started as a shithead, he has zero conception of morality, and is an unrepentant psychopath. Yet, he finds himself in what he knows is a terrible situation that he has to fix for his own good and for the good of the planes, too. So he pulls zero punches and is capable of manipulating and ruining everyone and everything just to achieve the goal he considers a good. He also does it unselfishly as far as other incarnations go, preparing clues for the next incarnations if he fails. In the end, he is so good at it he is successful like a century after his 'death' despite the Paranoid incarnation spending decades destroying his work. But was it worth it? Can he truly be called evil compared to the Good Incarnation, considering their respective impact? Was his cruelty necessary, or would someone equally smart and competent achieve just as much if they were a moral person? Torment was an incredible game, which only underscores how loving good Disco is that it manages to be even better. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 15:15
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I don't really want to compare the quality of Planescape:Torment and Disco Elysium because it's sort of like comparing two of your children: sure, the new one gets all of your attention, but that doesn't mean you think it's better than your firstborn. Plus, the two games were born in different eras with different aims. Planescape was all about deconstructing the RPG with emphasized dialogue and deemphasized combat, but Disco Elysium is about reconstructing the RPG further into the new form that Planescape pioneered. I'll probably have more thoughts on this later.
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Jan 15, 2020 15:44
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What Kurvitz said in that interview rings especially true when you realise that Planescape deconstructed RPGs, and then through two decades (including the big revival) literally not one rpg tried to do what Elysium did, which is reconstruct it in a new form. If Disco Elysium came 3 years after Torment you'd go "oh yeah that makes sense, RPGs continue to evolve"; instead there was a giant stagnation.
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Jan 15, 2020 15:54
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Finally finished last night! What a fantastic game. Instant classic. Honestly, when it came out and nerds were raving about it and saying it was equal to or better than PS:T, it made me get kinda defensive and reflexively defend PS:T (as it's one of my all-time favorites, like most) but I think it's fair to put it up there next to it. Actually made me want to replay PS:T, reinstalled it last night.  I finished the game on day 8, having explored and completed as much as I could. Prob coulda wrapped up on day 7 but wasted some time. Cop-o-types were strongly boring cop, moralist, honor cap, law cop, good cop. Picked 4/4/2/2 for my build, invested heavily into logic, encyclopedia, rhetoric, drama, visual calculus, volition, empathy, esprit de corps, and perception. Combo of the thoughts jamais vu, 15th indotribe, and wompty domp had me rolling in XP and cash past the early game. Stayed at the Whirling Rags the whole game. Basically, I was playing a lawful stupid paladin, tried to do everything by the book and do the right thing. Stayed away from all booze and drugs. My first failed run I'd tried to make a communist/fascist/paranormal apocalypse cop because I thought it'd be entertaining, but quickly gave up on that when I realized internalizing the relevant thoughts earns you 4xp for communist dialogue, and -1 morale for nationalist dialogue  Endgame spoilers: I thought the ending was great, and tied everything together well. I rejected all bribes, Kim bailed me out with the hubcaps end of day 1, then money was no issue after that. Found the bullet in the initial autopsy. Got suspicious of Klaasje, she was manipulating all my skills except volition, which called all the other skills out for being compromised. I got as much information out of her as I could, then arrested her. I ended up letting Ruby go instead of pressing her when she had a gun in her mouth, since I thought she wasn't the murderer at that point. Did the tribunal about as well as I could, after diplomacy failed, shot the leader, the armor chestpiece stopped the first round, ate the unavoidable second round, and warned Kim so he survived. I think three of the Hardie boys died in the fight, no matter what permutations I tried 3-4 of them died no matter what. I don't think it's possible to get a non-violent resolution or to save everyone. Endgame, the last dream fuckin' slayed me. I could strongly relate to poor Harry, as that exact story to a T also turned me into a depressed alcoholic for a couple years in the past. "Well Kim, I just got totally annihilated." I would like to think that I left Harry on the road to redemption and moving on, but the dialogue choices are ambiguous. The deserter kinda comes out of nowhere, but it had been nagging in my mind that no one nearby heard a rifle shot. I'd been suspecting it was from a nearby building. They did a nice job tying together a lot of the loose ends, like the flowers on Klaasje's roof, or the bullet in the statue of the king you can notice. Had a nice chat with the plasmid at the end. I had to replay the ending a second time to get all the dialogue options, since I didn't pick "That's insane." my first time, but the plasmid goes on to tell you that humans are creating the pale with their thoughts... Crazy poo poo. Also a nice touch that Klaasje was STILL lying to you about her name Ended up making up with my cop friends and winning them back over, and Kim was considering the invitation to come to Precinct 41.Lingering questions, also endgame spoilers: What happens if you don't arrest Klaasje? I've read that she flees right before the tribunal, do you talk to her again? What does she say if you return to talk to her after examining the empty buoy where her documents were? I didn't see any resolution about her fate. Also, is there any definitive closure as to what exactly happened, and why, the night Harry lost his memory, beyond "booze and drug bender wiped his mind"? Was this an accident, or was he intentionally trying to forget his ex, and took a heroic dose to do so? It's also implied he tried to hang himself with the horrific tie. I tried to stay away from all the electrochemistry stuff, so I probably missed a good deal of that background.
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Jan 15, 2020 18:26
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Azuren posted:What happens if you don't arrest Klaasje? I've read that she flees right before the tribunal, do you talk to her again? What does she say if you return to talk to her after examining the empty buoy where her documents were? I didn't see any resolution about her fate. Also, is there any definitive closure as to what exactly happened, and why, the night Harry lost his memory, beyond "booze and drug bender wiped his mind"? Was this an accident, or was he intentionally trying to forget his ex, and took a heroic dose to do so? It's also implied he tried to hang himself with the horrific tie. I tried to stay away from all the electrochemistry stuff, so I probably missed a good deal of that background. She flees, but she leaves you a gift as thanks for sparing her - a reconstructed trajectory of the bullet that killed Lely. The posse implies you've had minor amnesiac episodes before, just nothing as bad. It's implied you were trial running an intentional history-ending bender. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 18:49
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Azuren posted:Also, is there any definitive closure as to what exactly happened, and why, the night Harry lost his memory, beyond "booze and drug bender wiped his mind"? Was this an accident, or was he intentionally trying to forget his ex, and took a heroic dose to do so? It's also implied he tried to hang himself with the horrific tie. I tried to stay away from all the electrochemistry stuff, so I probably missed a good deal of that background. Before the game, Harry was deliberately trying to wipe his memory by over-indulging in drugs and alcohol. He's done it before, that's why nobody back at the station is alarmed when you tell them that you have complete amnesia. It might also have worked better this time because of the proximity to the 2mm hole in reality, since the Pale effects memory. There aren't really any definitive answers, but you can piece stuff together by talking to everyone thoroughly.
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Jan 15, 2020 18:54
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He also divests himself of his badge, car, gun and associates beforehand.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:37
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