Shinji117 posted:

People should stop falling over and over again for Cythereal's bait.

eating only apples posted:

Endorph posted:

I think avatar characters restrict the writing in awful ways and also make people focus on things in really silly ways (for instance framing this game's gay rep around who byleth can get with while ignoring all the non-byleth content), so I think the games are better off without them. You can still have a main character whose gender you can choose, just make them an actual character with normal dialogue in conversations and don't frame scenes as them being 'you.'

Endorph posted:

I think avatar characters restrict the writing in awful ways and also make people focus on things in really silly ways (for instance framing this game's gay rep around who byleth can get with while ignoring all the non-byleth content), so I think the games are better off without them. You can still have a main character whose gender you can choose, just make them an actual character with normal dialogue in conversations and don't frame scenes as them being 'you.'

Eimi posted:

Is Robin an avatar or a character who's gender you can choose? Just curious because to me Robin falls under that second, since they have a distinct and actual personality. Though also just by virtue of me picking them they felt like 'me'. I would be happy with more Robin esque characters or them going full CRPG. Either way would make me happy.

Endorph posted:

Robin is almost the second but they still have first person point of view in the cg cutscenes, can gently caress everyone, and are framed as a selfinsert in said s supports

What i want is literally just 'do you want boy ike or girl ike' and ike is still written exactly like ike. Or i guess the original pitch of fe9 where youd pick between ike or mist , theyd have their own starter chapters, and then whichever one you didnt get would get murked by the burger king along with greil and the game would go from there

Endorph posted:

Robin is almost the second but they still have first person point of view in the cg cutscenes, can gently caress everyone, and are framed as a selfinsert in said s supports

What i want is literally just 'do you want boy ike or girl ike' and ike is still written exactly like ike. Or i guess the original pitch of fe9 where youd pick between ike or mist, theyd have their own starter chapters, and then whichever one you didnt get would get murked by the burger king along with greil and the game would go from there. That kind of thing.

Eimi posted:

I thought the cutscene view was just a conceit to the fact that they didn't want to render a cutscene for every version of Robin. Hence why Byleth just has one look even though she's way more avatar than Robin is.

Shinji117 posted:

People should stop falling over and over again for Cythereal's bait.
It's not even good or novel bait, it's just "Edelgard bad (occasionally give a reason)" and then the thread gains three dozen more replies in like ten minutes. Rinse and repeat.

Endorph posted:

I think avatar characters restrict the writing in awful ways and also make people focus on things in really silly ways (for instance framing this game's gay rep around who byleth can get with while ignoring all the non-byleth content), so I think the games are better off without them. You can still have a main character whose gender you can choose, just make them an actual character with normal dialogue in conversations and don't frame scenes as them being 'you.'

Junpei Hyde posted:

remember griffon riders

those were cool

Endorph posted:

What i want is literally just 'do you want boy ike or girl ike' and ike is still written exactly like ike.

Cythereal posted:

I approach role-playing games very differently than you do. I play games to get involved with the story, not to follow along some random schmuck unless it's a schmuck I can identify with and like.

Straight up, if this game was a choice of playing as Edelgard, Dimitri, or Claude, I'd have left it on the shelf.

Genovera posted:

This compromise would be better than nothing but also why can't we just have girl Ike. Why must it be a male protagonist or a choice between the two? And this kind of thing tends to treat the male option as the default still (like how male Robin/Corrin/Byleth is default in Smash Bros).

eating only apples posted:

I honestly don't know how you can get involved with the story when you literally read everything there is to know about the game before playing it. Like you know what's going to happen, you know the plot and you've planned your pairings months in advance - unless you're really into the gameplay for some reason, why do you bother?

Endorph posted:

i mean even if they did have a solo female protagonist its unlikely that literally every fire emblem from this point on would have a solo female protagonist

also female corrin is treated as the default just about everywhere except smash brothers

Airspace posted:

Except being 'anti-war' is a completely valid stance to take?

Because it is.

Junpei Hyde posted:

Gonna make a 3H romhack where edelgard engages rhea in the free marketplace of ideas

Lord Koth posted:

Edelgard absolutely IS the villain though. Like, that's even been a speculative argument as to some of her route issues - that she was added later in the development cycle for one reason or another, and some of the route problems are basically trying to reconcile helping the villain with having a good ending. Hell, even aside from the shortness or other overall route issues, the route itself has an almost lighthearted atmosphere - extending to the other students - that absolutely does not fit what's going on and clashes with the personalities of several students as presented literally everywhere else.

Like, it's fine to like her, particularly since she DOES mean well, but from an objective standpoint she's monstrous - even ignoring various behind-the-scenes stuff in the school portion, she starts a continent-spanning war on false reasoning (virtually every objection she has against the Church/Rhea is either false or incredibly skewed), engages in various shady and authoritarian crap in any route other than her own, and even in Crimson Flower it's made a point that she basically obliterates the history of Faergus and the Alliance after winning - an issue that is not repeated in either a Faergus or Alliance victory.

Modest Mao posted:

The problem with avatar characters is that they're essentially along for the ride.

Ike is good because he has a well developed family, personality, goals and weaknesses in the first section of the first game, that he overcomes and develops as the center of the story in the remaining sections. He makes major choices that effect the outcome of events. There's a clear arch from a naive kid mercenary to a sorta disenchanted freedom fighter / legend.

Even the design of the character reflects what happens over the 50 or so hours of the two games in, I think, an emotionally evocative way.




Byleth, like Ike, has a mysterious mercenary dad, who gets killed, and I guess that's a motivation of a sort. But ultimately they have no real impact on the story except being extraordinarily talented and every other character wants them around for reasons that aren't developed because they don't really exist. There's no struggle about being a living god or choosing to be a teacher, or which house to pick because the choice is made before any consequences of that choice present themselves.

A much better perspective would to be an incoming student who picks a house and develops a close friendship with future royalty, with writing that actually shows your character influencing them and later being given choices to make (perhaps written into the story, not choices the player can decide). You could still turn out to be a living god or whatever but have it manafest in a way other than 'oh that's neat'.

Shinji117 posted:

"Have you considered not using lies about Crests to prop up a vicious and abusive caste system?"
"Caaaaaaatherine I need your sword here"

Genovera posted:

I am not saying that literally every fire emblem from this point on has to have a solo female protagonist. I am saying that if there is a solo protagonist they should be female half of the time.

Junpei Hyde posted:

Rhea uses the monetisation gained from her live youtube debate stream to run more crusades with her child soldier school

Endorph posted:

Issue is the other half of the time people would want a female protagonist. I think the selectable gender thing kinda solves it.

Manatee Cannon posted:

what's the over/under on the strategist from fe7 being an actual unit in the inevitable remake

Tae posted:

Lyn will probably see way more screentime and may overtake Eliwood, considering FEHeroes