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Psycho Landlord posted:Nah the gundam explanation was the discovery of a particle that allowed insane energy generation but also seriously hosed up radio and radar waves being blown all over the solar system as jamming by idiots who didn't realize the poo poo wouldn't decay which rendered guided munitions useless. So everyone went to space battleships and lasers for BVR combat. Then somebody built a better space fighter that was made for people who grew up in and had a better understanding of zero G but also put arms and legs on it to be scary and it royally hosed up the battleships because they had nothing resembling effective point defense. And thus, the gundams. From what I remember from the original show the legs are largely decoration when in space too
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Jan 22, 2020 21:46
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I thought the explanation behind gundam was androgynous youths are the solution to all the worlds problems so make every child a soldier? And society was basically ok with it because anime looks at the super adventure club from south park as something to aspire to
Stravag fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 21:55
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Nah see world-saving teenage soldiers are a byproduct of the robots, not a cause, much like in Battletech where the existence of Mechs had a direct hand in the creation of a society so utterly stupid they enslaved their scientist caste in its entirety and then left them alone and were shocked when there was an uprising and they were at a technological disadvantage
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Jan 22, 2020 21:58
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Stravag posted:I thought the explanation behind gundam was androgynous youths are the solution to all the worlds problems so make every child a soldier? And society was basically ok with it because anime looks at the super adventure club from south park as something to aspire to Almost every Gundam series starts during or right after an apocalyptic conflict that wipes out like half of all human life. Like the original Gundam's opening narration is about a space colony being dropped on London and Sydney which explicitly kill billions of people followed by major nuclear exchanges that give a good go at killing most of the rest before a treaty is signed banning nukes. Kids are almost invariably the pilots in Gundam shows because everyone with any military experience is already dead.
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Jan 22, 2020 22:02
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That's really only the original, which is also the most "hey by the way the circumstances of this story are incredibly hosed up please don't glamorize it." Couple decades later we get Wing, the one people outside Japan actually remember. It did not take that lesson to heart.
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Jan 22, 2020 22:15
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Gundam is fun because you have so many flavors it can be hard to keep track of what the local handwavium is. Like...Stravag posted:I thought the explanation behind gundam was androgynous youths are the solution to all the worlds problems so make every child a soldier? And society was basically ok with it because anime looks at the super adventure club from south park as something to aspire to I know 100% you are talking about Wing and 00 right now. I know this because I am a giant Gundam weeb (but only Gundam), and you just perfectly described the aesthetics of both. Conversely... Psycho Landlord posted:That's really only the original, which is also the most "hey by the way the circumstances of this story are incredibly hosed up please don't glamorize it." The most Battletech of the Gundams is probably Iron Blooded Orphans. Followed closely by Turn A. Turn A has a way more optimistic outcome for the whole centuries of strife lost technology humanity rebuilding theme though. RBA Starblade posted:From what I remember from the original show the legs are largely decoration when in space too Ex post facto explanation was that the arms and legs acted as a kind of reaction wheel style movement system. RBA Starblade posted:I cast battlefist That's G Gundam. Nah bruh. He asked about F-16s getting MLASed by aerospace fighters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upb6JOY3O3c&t=513s
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Jan 22, 2020 22:40
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Psycho Landlord posted:Nah the gundam explanation was the discovery of a particle that allowed insane energy generation but also seriously hosed up radio and radar waves being blown all over the solar system as jamming by idiots who didn't realize the poo poo wouldn't decay which rendered guided munitions useless. So everyone went to space battleships and lasers for space combat. Then somebody built a better space fighter that was made for people who grew up in and had a better understanding of zero G but also put arms and legs on it to be scary and it royally hosed up the battleships because they had nothing resembling effective point defense. And thus, the gundams. Minovsky Particles are a cool idea. And yes the whole Squad of Pretty Boy Teens that ride Gundams to save everyone trope exists because of Wing, SEED and SEED Destiny tried to copy paste it onto a setting similar to the original Gundam to mixed results.
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Jan 22, 2020 22:50
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Warmachine posted:The most Battletech of the Gundams is probably Iron Blooded Orphans. Followed closely by Turn A. Turn A has a way more optimistic outcome for the whole centuries of strife lost technology humanity rebuilding theme though. IBO is definitely the most Battletech Gundam series but I do think OG 0079 was more on point about how loving goddamn terrible the entire child soldier thrust into the cockpit thing was. Not that IBO wasn't on point about it itself, mind you. But that's def a digression probably not for this thread. Warmachine posted:Nah bruh. He asked about F-16s getting MLASed by aerospace fighters. Hell yes gimme fuckin Ace Combat Aerotech
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Jan 22, 2020 23:03
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Warmachine posted:I know 100% you are talking about Wing and 00 right now. I know this because I am a giant Gundam weeb (but only Gundam), and you just perfectly described the aesthetics of both. Conversely.. Never saw 00 but i was mainly basing it off what i remembered from the original and wing i saw when i wad a kid and then when i let someone talk me into...unicorn?... a few years ago it didnt seem to have changed
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Jan 22, 2020 23:10
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Psycho Landlord posted:Am I remembering wrong or was the (flimsy) justification for mech weapons being short ranged until suddenly they were capable of AA against high level targets that it turns out all mechs can do a little bit of E-war and there was near constant targeting fuckery and image spoofing going on even when the people using the mechs didn't realize it, like it was just part of the battle computer in every Mech and even the later succession wars-era designs did it because it was something intrinsic to the systems they copied? I remember this too. It's why the Raven pisses me off. If the entire battlefield is already a wasteland of successful ECM, why is there an ECM mech?
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Jan 22, 2020 23:10
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Zorak of Michigan posted:I remember this too. It's why the Raven pisses me off. If the entire battlefield is already a wasteland of successful ECM, why is there an ECM mech? That doesn't even work as an explanation anyway. In one of the Battletech novels in order to counter phantom mech thing it's shown that targeting systems can be reconfigured to use cameras instead of radar and it works fine. Even if the battlefield is an ECM wasteland it shouldn't matter for anybody with line of sight.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:15
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Because highly focused ecm on a battlefield already saturated with it may actually overload your main computer and render you completely immobile. Being real close to a B52 actively doing its best ECM work will gently caress up alot of stuff if theyre not properly shielded or if the shielding isnt maintained. Now imagine that happening around fusion engines exits OH gently caress function is emergency crashing the reactor to shut it down top prevent any issues like over heat or a runaway reaction. And pretty much nothing in a battlefield especially on a battletech battlefield is properly maintained
Stravag fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 23:19
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Complications posted:That doesn't even work as an explanation anyway. In one of the Battletech novels in order to counter phantom mech thing it's shown that targeting systems can be reconfigured to use cameras instead of radar and it works fine. Even if the battlefield is an ECM wasteland it shouldn't matter for anybody with line of sight. I wish I still had my 80s-era Battletech book because I vaguely remember a ton of poo poo that didn't seem to jibe with the novels. They chose cool over continuity every time, except that psychic vanishing mech power is neither and just irritates me.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:30
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Zorak of Michigan posted:I wish I still had my 80s-era Battletech book because I vaguely remember a ton of poo poo that didn't seem to jibe with the novels. They chose cool over continuity every time, except that psychic vanishing mech power is neither and just irritates me. Yup. The Warrior trilogy made a huge deal about Justin Allard losing his arm and never being able to pilot a mech again. TRO 3025 has a couple notable pilots with prosthetic limbs. But... if they had been consistent, Stackpole wouldn't have been able to shoehorn in his absurd plot device.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:37
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The Rat posted:If you start a career game with mech destruction enabled, what happens to the components in one of your mechs if it gets cored? Lose everything? You have a chance to loot otherwise built-in quirk components.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:38
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Psycho Landlord posted:Hell yes gimme fuckin Ace Combat Aerotech I never knew how badly I wanted this
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Jan 22, 2020 23:50
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quote:Headshot Marauder talk I've been running mine with triple UAC5+++ (-weight/+accuracy) and it tag teams well enough with a 4x PPC Awesome. I'm going to try the UAC2/ML build since I can't put JJs on the 3R in BEXCE. On the other hand, suboptimal headshot setups are that much more rewarding when you go on a roll. I did the Flashpoint where Justin Allard hires you to make the annoying mercs go away. My lance included a UAC20+++ Centurion that headshot 3 of the opposing lance. I don't think any of my other called head shots scored at all, but those three more than made up for it.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:57
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By novel logic every mech goes up in a colossal nuclear fireball as soon as that last bit of CT structure runs out In conclusion Battletech is about as consistent as the FWL
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Jan 23, 2020 00:23
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Psycho Landlord posted:By novel logic every mech goes up in a colossal nuclear fireball as soon as that last bit of CT structure runs out I for one never liked that
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Jan 23, 2020 01:03
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Does anyone have a list of which factions sell what when you have access to their HQ store? All I know is: Davion: ACs/UACs Kurita: PPCs/Snub PPCs Pirates/Black Market: Everything
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Jan 23, 2020 01:26
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Liao: SRMs, infernos, ECM Steiner: LBXes, maybe other stuff but I didn't notice because I just wanted the LBXes
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Jan 23, 2020 01:35
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I am pretty sure I read somewhere that every single weapon on a 'mech is hooked up to it's own individual crosshair each of which has individual focusing controls. One of the things that makes piloting a 'mech so difficult is trying to wrangle all the crosshairs to converge on your target at the same time. The DI BattleComputer then translates this into firing the weapon at wherever you had the crosshair pointed. Don't forget that you are doing all this through a 360° view scrunched into something you can interpret with your own limited vision - at the same time the 'mech is balancing itself using your own personal sense of balance so you better not get dizzy or confused, or sneeze. The reason that some pilots in the 3025 era are absolute gods compared to the rest is that rather than their NeuroHelmet just transferring the sense of balance to the BattleComputer, they are able to transfer their whole consciousness, or something, and control their 'mech as an extension of their body with their mind. If you can do this, it is usually only with a particular 'mech and is probably what the NeuroHelmets were supposed to do for everyone but I bet 99% of 'Mech's have never been restarted or reconfigured for a new pilot. It's something the Clans develop with their implants, but those make you go insane. There aren't many pilots who can do this, Minobu Tetsuhara - the coolest samurai warrior ever - was able to this in his Panther Katana Kat for example. 
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Jan 23, 2020 01:48
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Phrosphor posted:I am pretty sure I read somewhere that every single weapon on a 'mech is hooked up to it's own individual crosshair each of which has individual focusing controls. One of the things that makes piloting a 'mech so difficult is trying to wrangle all the crosshairs to converge on your target at the same time. Not exactly. You have a single reticule unless you activate independent aiming, but the problem is the weapons that are all shooting at that point are all on articulated mounts that may move at different speeds and are subject to the mech body's movement in different ways plus theyre all mounted literal meters apart. Someones analogy was trying to focus a dozen laser pointers onto one spot from 8 different locations on your body while youre moving around
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Jan 23, 2020 02:41
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Phrosphor posted:The reason that some pilots in the 3025 era are absolute gods compared to the rest is that rather than their NeuroHelmet just transferring the sense of balance to the BattleComputer, they are able to transfer their whole consciousness, or something, and control their 'mech as an extension of their body with their mind. If you can do this, it is usually only with a particular 'mech and is probably what the NeuroHelmets were supposed to do for everyone but I bet 99% of 'Mech's have never been restarted or reconfigured for a new pilot. It's something the Clans develop with their implants, but those make you go insane. I just happened to reread Wolves on the Border featuring Legit Awesome Guy Minobu Tetsuhara, and what you're referring to is muga. It's less literal consciousness transfer and more that you enter a state of mind where you forget you're piloting a Mech. Rather than thinking about firing that weapon, you reach over and push the button without any thought. Like how eventually you become so familiar with a game you instinctively hit the "draw weapon" button without actually thinking about what button you're pressing. Literal consciousness transfer technology exists, but it fucks up the brain so much that even the Clans said "this is too much." Instead it was only widely used by everyone's favorite religious terrorist organization, the Word of Blake.
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Jan 23, 2020 03:36
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DatonKallandor posted:Mod support for Shadowrun cost them an absurd amount of money so they're not doing it again. Uh, anyone know what this was about?
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Jan 23, 2020 04:24
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In one of later tech manually books I believe there was a in-universe thing talking about the armor that mentioned how unless the hit was juuuuust right it would be more or less deflected harmlessly and that was something that was more challenging at range.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:16
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Sky Shadowing posted:I just happened to reread Wolves on the Border featuring Legit Awesome Guy Minobu Tetsuhara, and what you're referring to is muga. Mushin. "no mind", a kind of Zen state. Great novel.
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Jan 23, 2020 06:19
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DatonKallandor posted:You have a chance to loot otherwise built-in quirk components. which lets you make things like an lrm stalker with the archer and assassin's suites, or a griffin 2N with five of the phoenix hawk's special jets that leaps halfway across the map and shoves 24 damage boosted srms into something's back, or a gauss king crab with the lance command module, or a quad snub atlas 2 with the raven's ECM
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Jan 23, 2020 07:43
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If that bit of craziness is still in, I seriously need to get coring on some special mechs. Does it matter if the mech is yours or theirs?
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Jan 23, 2020 08:07
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Chronojam posted:If that bit of craziness is still in, I seriously need to get coring on some special mechs. Does it matter if the mech is yours or theirs? Pretty sure it only works if your own mechs get cored.
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Jan 23, 2020 08:26
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The Rat posted:If you start a career game with mech destruction enabled, what happens to the components in one of your mechs if it gets cored? Lose everything? Pretty sure you can recover components as salvage. Source: last time I played through the campaign, I lost one of the SLDF mechs on the mission you get them and was able to salvage some extra DHS and other lostech parts from it which means it’s actually optimal to lose the mechs that aren’t mission critical so you can salvage them
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Jan 23, 2020 10:50
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OK, I am starting to get the hang of this now. I bought a few AC/20s and AC/10s, put an AC/20 on the Centurion you get for free, and at this stage of the campaign it's basically a one-shot kill if I hit the CT. Had to start a new campaign, though, I managed to completely bankrupt my previous one because I'm bad at games.
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Jan 23, 2020 11:14
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Warmachine posted:
Wow. That is some supersubtle foreshadowing in that dialogue.
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Jan 23, 2020 11:55
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Deptfordx posted:Wow. That is some supersubtle foreshadowing in that dialogue. Ace Combat is never subtle.
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Jan 23, 2020 15:40
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Warmachine posted:Ace Combat is never subtle. Go dance with the angels
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Jan 23, 2020 16:12
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RBA Starblade posted:Go dance with the angels Mister!
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Jan 23, 2020 16:22
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So, running BEX3025, I've been fiddling with the tonnage drop costs, and found where I like it: Up to 160 tons is free, and then 5k cBills per ton over. Thoughts? Example: so a full on 4x100 ton drop costs 1.2m to deploy, 4x75 is 700k, 4x50 is 200k BrotherJayne fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 16:51
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Norton the First posted:Hold on, why are F-16s not a thing? I'm pretty sure they'd be cheaper than any mech. They are, but Aerospace fighters eat atmospheric aircraft alive... and then crash to ground fire because they're stupidly fast and it turns out space fighters that can travel at 4-12+ Gs of acceleration in a vacuum don't handle flying through atmosphere very well. You don't even have to hit an aerospace fighter to lawn dart them, surprising the pilot is good enough and there's a Special Pilot Ability aerospace pilots can get that can force pursuing aircraft to crash by catching them in the turbulence from how stupidly powerful ASF engines are. My favorite in-universe boondoggle is the Banshee aerospace fighter from the BattleTech cartoon. The Lyrans were experimenting to try to make an aerospace fighter that was more stable in atmospheric flight. Their solution?  Take a 50 ton heavy fighter and staple fuckoff enormous 25 ton (fusion powered but otherwise) conventional jet engine on top, directly above the cockpit, giving it 25 tons of wasted potential in space and a pilot-mulching dead weight in atmospheric flight. Turns out? The normal fusion-powered engines were so significantly more powerful than the Banshee's huge jet-powered anchor that trying to use the actual jet engine as advertised slowed the Banshee to a crawl in atmosphere so not only did other fusion-powered aerospace craft eat it for breakfast but so did ground-based AA. The Banshee's only saving grace is that its primary armament of a whopping two medium lasers is so woefully inadequate that even the AFFC decided building more than a handful of prototypes was a waste of everyone's time and resources. Banshees. They're bad even when they fly.
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Jan 23, 2020 20:35
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That gauss seaplane at least /sounds/ neat, but a vstol could do just as well I guess. (Are there gauss armed vstols or ASFs?)
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Jan 23, 2020 20:52
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So wait... you're telling me flying an aerospace fighter in Battletech is like trying to dogfight in an SR-51?
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Jan 23, 2020 20:52
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