|
Supporting a winning presidential campaign sometimes means you can be Kevin Bacon'ed to people you want no part of, it's true. Usually most people are able to stomach internally on the idea that you're just using and discarding the people you're disgusted by. There are a few people that would rather lose running a purity campaign, but I think in general the "opposition" to this has mostly been concerned that this will start up the "white male Bernie supporter" meme again just as facts were showing it dying out.
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:31 |
|
|
Paradoxish posted:Yes, I'm saying I wish he had been a little more explicit. It's not a big deal either way and I think the response was fine. Better to be all encompassing for when someone that once upon the time was racist or sexist or whatever endorses him and the same thing comes up again. "We won't compromise our views" covers it all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:52
|
|
|
The enemies of Bernie Sanders are feckless cowards. They will all be crushed with extreme-prejudice in merely a week.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:52
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Barbara Lee made a strategic political choice because of her location in California and she is too powerful for your mere mortal attempts to cancel her I would withhold judgement on this sort of thing. I think that, in the same way as there's meaning to "supporting good things before they were popular," there's also meaning to "supporting good things when it looks like they might actually happen and actually taking the actions to make them happen." Many left-wing views were tolerated (and thus didn't cause much career backlash) as long as they remained in the minority and weren't a threat. Supporting them when there's an actual threat of them being achieved is a different matter. A good example of Sherrod Brown supporting single-payer in the past. He suddenly changed his tune when it actually became viable. This is because it suddenly means something very different to support it when it actually might happen. Mainstream Dems (and industry) don't mind much if you express support for something that is still firmly outside of the realm of possibility, so it's entirely possible for people to stop supporting such things when there start to be consequences for doing so. Regarding the Lee thing specifically, to be frank I don't really buy that it was some necessary thing for her to support Harris. That was bizarre, and it really needs to be explained. Electing Sanders (and certainly not electing Harris) is far more important than any questionable benefits that could be achieved by endorsing Harris. And the longer that goes by post-Harris leaving the race without a Bernie endorsement, the more concerned you should be. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:not really much more to say on the subject than that: welcome to the reason every centrist uses "politics is about compromise" as a shield for every conceivable misdeed. because there is always going to be that scintilla of doubt they're compromising for the right reasons, and so you'll never be completely sure if someone isn't a snake. Eh, not all compromises are the same. It's a far different thing to compromise on actual policy/ideology (which is what centrists/mainstream Dems do) than it is to compromise on "accepting the support of a problematic public figure." The former has a clear and direct effect, while the latter merely "holds the vague possibility of maybe implying something." My personal belief regarding the primary is that "not willing to support any of the candidates, including Sanders" is a defensible position, but "willing to support any candidate other than Sanders" is not defensible under any circumstances. Paradoxish posted:Yeah, and it's a very legitimate point. I mean, I don't think it's really true (there aren't really any more older white male politicians with decent politics than there are older woman/minority ones - like I think there's literally just Bernie Sanders, who is also a Jew, as far as the former go). But even if it were true, the only possible conclusion to be drawn is "that's a shame"; it certainly doesn't mean we should start supporting people like Clinton or Harris out of some misguided sense of pity. "Certain people were forced to be bad" doesn't change the fact that they're bad. Though really the most important thing here is that there's not really any reason to even think it's true in the first place, since we don't have to rely on gut feeling - we can simply look at actual politicians and clearly see that "white men in the Democratic Party who have been consistent in their beliefs" are not any more common (and are probably overall less common) than women/minorities who have. oxsnard posted:i'm just learning about transgender rights, in this, the year of our lord 2019 Also when she says "there are women who would say" it is transparently obvious that those are just actually her own opinions. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jan 24, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:53
|
|
|
oxsnard posted:https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1220739981657944070?s=20 I bet a few months ago Horse dude was probably all about the need to nominate a moderate to bring in Republicans too. Suddenly now that bernie can do it, they've changed their tune. I will love to watch them squirm when Bernie wins the nom.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:56
|
|
|
Rogan is going to get the white washing from the left that the Liberals gave GWB and I'll be the last person person going "Hey maybe we can just benefit from his support without automatically paying him back in good will?"
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:56
|
|
|
So here's another reason to describe why Pete sucks, logistically. The last president who won without winning a state they are from or resided in (Trump gets a pass because Florida) was Polk. Butt would lose Indiana for sure
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:57
|
|
|
Katt posted:Rogan is going to get the white washing from the left that the Liberals gave GWB and I'll be the last person person going "Hey maybe we can just benefit from his support without automatically paying him back in good will?" hmmm no probably not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 21:57
|
|
|
oxsnard posted:So here's another reason to describe why Pete sucks, logistically. The last president who won without winning a state they are from or resided in (Trump gets a pass because Florida) was Polk. Butt would lose Indiana for sure Isn't that just a corollary to "Presidents are usually senators or governors first (i.e. already won a statewide race in their home state)"?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:05
|
|
|
Katt posted:Rogan is going to get the white washing from the left that the Liberals gave GWB and I'll be the last person person going "Hey maybe we can just benefit from his support without automatically paying him back in good will?" yes you're a big brained boy and everyone else is a dum dum
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:07
|
|
|
This is.... not good news for Joe
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:10
|
|
|
History books will have a small picture of Joe Rogan, pointing offscreen at the genitals of a chimpanzee with a subline that he was integral to Bernie's first term.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:12
|
|
|
something I learned from the last election is that stringent purity testing helps you lose elections
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:12
|
|
|
Anyone here a fan of Rising? https://youtu.be/fZwTEbDEQF4
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:13
|
|
|
Meatball posted:I bet a few months ago Horse dude was probably all about the need to nominate a moderate to bring in Republicans too. Based on exit polling from 2016, the center-left is probably going to defect at greater levels than the left did in 2016 Which is, ironically, the only thing I'm worried about with Bernie. That the center-left takes their ball and goes home. Here's hoping it doesn't happen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:21
|
|
|
Uncle Wemus posted:This is.... not good news for Joe Biden or Rogan? Re: Oregon -- we are a mail-in-ballot state and are very Bernie-friendly. He won with like 56% of the vote last time. Chances of his win here are quite high but we vote late in the primary process (5/19).
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:Based on exit polling from 2016, the center-left is probably going to defect at greater levels than the left did in 2016 I’m not too worried about the center-left idiots. History has shown they’re weak followers. Right now they’re of the mind that Establishment Dems obviously know what they’re doing because they’re in power. As soon as Bernie wins sweeping early victories, 90+% of them are going to pretend that they’ve been Bernard Siblings themselves the whole time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:28
|
|
|
oxsnard posted:So here's another reason to describe why Pete sucks, logistically. The last president who won without winning a state they are from or resided in (Trump gets a pass because Florida) was Polk. Butt would lose Indiana for sure Don't "forget" Gore. Coincidentally, both losing Tennessee
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:29
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:Based on exit polling from 2016, the center-left is probably going to defect at greater levels than the left did in 2016 I think most people, aside from maybe people who always vote Green or Libertarian no matter what (and there will be less of those this time), are firmly on the anyone-but-Trump train. Like if Joe wins the nomination it would be a tragedy, and maybe still portend long-term systemic problems in America that created President Trump not getting solved--but difficult to imagine it as more tragic than another four years of this poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:29
|
|
|
Awful CompSloth posted:Anyone here a fan of Rising? Generally yes but I didn't like that segment. I thought it was a bit too dismissive of legitimate concerns and the guy going "Joe is great! He could beat your ___!" and he wouldn't even say rear end. But Krystal Ball has more or less been right this whole cycle.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:29
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:Based on exit polling from 2016, the center-left is probably going to defect at greater levels than the left did in 2016 That happened in 2008 and Obama won in a landslide and carried supermajorities in on his coattails. PUMAs don't matter, never have, never will, and chasing whitecollar douchebags ended 60 years of Democratic dominance in American politics
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:31
|
|
RasperFat posted:I’m not too worried about the center-left idiots. exactly. They're gonna be just like all those principled Republicans who stoop up to Trump during the primary. look forward to the Democrat version of this picture, coming October this year 
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:33
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:exactly. They're gonna be just like all those principled Republicans who stoop up to Trump during the primary. Idk Cruz caved because The Money sat him down and said "look you are going to help us get tax cuts or you're cut off", with a Sanders presidential ticket The Money will pressure Democratic politicians to defect to Trump for the same reason. My hope is that those people won't matter because everyone hates the establishment anyway, unlike in McGovern's day when there was still enough (misplaced) trust in the Democratic establishment that the rank-and-file listened to the party hacks who stabbed the Democratic ticket in the back.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:39
|
|
|
Is there anything stopped a candidate from saying "when I'm elected, I will declassify all of the poo poo Trump is hiding and give the American people the truth!"?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:40
|
|
|
Katt posted:Rogan is going to get the white washing from the left that the Liberals gave GWB and I'll be the last person person going "Hey maybe we can just benefit from his support without automatically paying him back in good will?" I had no idea Rogan started a war. lol, what a profoundly stupid post you made.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:42
|
|
|
Faustian Bargain posted:Is there anything stopped a candidate from saying "when I'm elected, I will declassify all of the poo poo Trump is hiding and give the American people the truth!"? I just not 5 minutes ago saw a sponsored ad from Warren claiming she would.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:42
|
|
|
Faustian Bargain posted:Is there anything stopped a candidate from saying "when I'm elected, I will declassify all of the poo poo Trump is hiding and give the American people the truth!"? https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1220709610476183552?s=21
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:43
|
|
|
Faustian Bargain posted:Is there anything stopped a candidate from saying "when I'm elected, I will declassify all of the poo poo Trump is hiding and give the American people the truth!"? Legally no. Practically speaking, the CIA's job is to get rid of threats to the unaccountable authoritarian security state, oh and also most of them would never say that because they agree with Trump on an unaccountable authoritarian security state.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:45
|
|
|
Faustian Bargain posted:Is there anything stopped a candidate from saying "when I'm elected, I will declassify all of the poo poo Trump is hiding and give the American people the truth!"? Bernie will tell us if there are aliens
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:45
|
|
|
Mat Cauthon posted:I'm saying that it is a huge lift to educate people out of their harmful beliefs - one that is absolutely worth it. However actually accomplishing that, beyond teaching people what things not to say, is extremely difficult. Even the most well-meaning people don't really know how to do it. So the burden falls to marginalized people to teach everybody else about their own humanity and needs, which is a drain on their time and energy that could be spent advocating for their needs (within the larger policy agenda) or just not having to do that. I agree with you and now that I understand better what your point is I get it. I hope you understand what I mean too. Its going to take all of us.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:48
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Idk Democrats can't just defect to Trump. If they're an elected Democrat official, they're probably gonna need to keep running on the Democrat ticket to get elected. If they're part of the Democrat party apparatus, they can't just request a transfer to an equivalent position in the Republican party. Yes, they can try to join the Republicans but it's very risky and will probably blow up in their faces. If Bernie is the nominee, centrist Dems will have to either support their candidate or risk irrelevancy.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:49
|
|
|
No one cares
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:51
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Robillard/status/1220820822492942336?s=20 only 11% of this demographic showed up to caucuses in 2016 bernie is gonna win
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:51
|
|
|
People talked about The Iron Law of Institutions, that people in power in an institution would rather keep their position as the institution fails than see the institution succeed at the cost of their personal power, when explaining why Democrats refused to move left, but it cuts both ways. If the party is moving left no matter what they do, most of them will get with the program
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:52
|
|
|
Has there been any talk of who Bernie would nominate as his VP?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:54
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Democrats can't just defect to Trump. If they're an elected Democrat official, they're probably gonna need to keep running on the Democrat ticket to get elected. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrats_for_Nixon I hope this doesn't happen, and I think even if it does it won't have the effect it did in 72. But the donors are absolutely terrified of and enraged by Bernie's campaign, they own the Democratic party, and there's going to be incredible pressure to defect.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:54
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1220826136202170370?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:56
|
|
|
I love seeing my centrist friends on Facebook rage. They know he's going to win and they hate it. They just want everything to go back to normal and for us not to have radical changes at once, it's too much!!!!
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 22:58
|
|
|
Any Democrat who defects to Trump was a Republican all along and is literally unsalvageable. Seriously, anyone who has spent the last few years complaining about Trump then defects to him because of Bernie's SOCIALISM is utterly selfish and FYGM and not at all gettable for left wing causes. Lol now I probably sound like one of the purity testers I keep railing against, but for real.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 23:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:31 |
|
|
if I had a twitter account I would like this twice if I could
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2020 23:00
|
|