The Colonel posted:

Zinkraptor posted:

Once it became clear how poorly the game (and more specifically the main character) was received, one of the creators complained that gamers just didn't get it. You see, he wanted to create a story about a lovely guy who changes, which was too radical an idea for the audience to understand - in other words, he was under the impression that he had invented character development.

I get the impression that YIIK was a game that thought itself above other JRPG-style games created by people who were not as familiar with the genre as they pretended to be. It'd be like if I decided to make a pretentious VN about VNs despite the extent of my experience with the genre just being "mainstream" stuff like Phoenix Wright and Zero Escape, or a pretentious farmlife-sim game despite not having played Harvest Moon in over a decade.

I know we'd kind of moved on from this conversation but I still can't get over that he didn't know how common flawed protagonists are and I have to take every opportunity I can to bring it up. The whole thing falls apart when whoops he's not likable at later on either. If you're going to have a main protagonist who starts very flawed, you have to be very careful about how you do it or the audience won't be invested enough to want to see them improve.

Barudak posted:

Indivisible is wild in terms of pacing and Im having fun, but good lord someone please remove the second city in the game being hideous backer rewards people the town.

HGH posted:

The 2nd city? No no no, that'd be too nice. It's every NPC in the game save for some plot ones.
Since you're playing the game and are a bit in, I wanna ask, how do you feel about Dhar and Ajna so far?

Tin Can Hit Man posted:

I have a friend who tried to convince me that this game had gotten a bad rap, but it took all of two hours for them to realize how wrong they were.

That game is lacking in self-awareness and absolutely full of itself to the Nth degree. It's what you get when people who grew up on media that relies on references of older media for humor try to make a video game about video games. And that's when the game isn't spending hours upon hours on non-sequitur inner monologues where the protagonist self-fellates himself and creepily obsesses about women.

Apparently the creator is every bit the pretentious douchebag you'd imagine they would be.

Zinkraptor posted:

Once it became clear how poorly the game (and more specifically the main character) was received, one of the creators complained that gamers just didn't get it. You see, he wanted to create a story about a lovely guy who changes, which was too radical an idea for the audience to understand - in other words, he was under the impression that he had invented character development.

kirbysuperstar posted:

Uh, what

Barudak posted:

Indivisible is wild in terms of pacing and Im having fun, but good lord someone please remove the second city in the game being hideous backer rewards people the town.

punk rebel ecks posted:

The video is great at explaining everything.

The protagonist is suppose to be a douche you aren't suppose to like who changes. But the problem is that he is way too much of an rear end in a top hat to the point of being a literal sociopath and telling people who have lost loved ones that "nobody cares about them".

The entire premise of the game turns out to be learn to love yourself with your flaws. However, that doesn't seem to be a good outlook since the protagonist was such a dickwad. Said dickwad also constantly gets rewarded for his bad behavior. And people always apologize toward rightfully criticising him for being an rear end in a top hat, but his responses are literally "oh no! I get it! You hate me! I see your TRUE colors now!!!"

Finally the entire game is built off of a super on the nose criticism about people who criticised the developers previous poorly received game. To the point where the protagonist of said game lectures the protagonist of this game about how people were wrong in criticising "them" and how they have to keep trying until people realize how great they actually are.

Also the game contains A LOT of monologues, much of so is the protagonist being creepily obsessed with every woman he meets, similar from Joe in YOU.

Barudak posted:

Even flammable starter village? I thought those looked more cohesive than these later ones. Honestly the worst part is they aren't animated/drawn the same way as the narrative characters so they look like even more like "OC do not steal" than they already are.

Ajna is fine with me, I like their voice actor, and she hits a good mix of shonen protagonist traits for the story. Dhar's plot is a weird combination of tropey and unsatisfying, probably because this game is traveling at approximately 12 million miles an hour narratively so hes not getting the time needed to breathe. Is there a particular bit you were curious about?

My bigger issue is the cast of characters is so large that while Ive got several more to collect I already dont think shirtless muscle guy will ever get another line of dialog since collecting him. I feel like there are other ways Id have handled the central concept (which I quite like) but Im gonna wait to see how the story goes before I suggest changes but it already feels undercooked.

The upgrade system is dumb and thats coming from someone who loves exploration platformers.

Feels Villeneuve posted:

the funny thing about his "people weren't used to character development" is that i'm more surprised these days when a game *doesn't* do it for any character who isn't a cypher/stand-in silent protagonist, mainly because the Don Giovanni/Scarlett o'Hara "character who spends the entire story not learning a goddamn thing" thing is hard to pull off well.

The Colonel posted:

now i don't really know what the "nox" of monstrum nox is supposed to mean but nox is an easy word and it sounds cool

The Colonel posted:

now i don't really know what the "nox" of monstrum nox is supposed to mean but nox is an easy word and it sounds cool

CottonWolf posted:

Nox is latin for night.

NikkolasKing posted:

Scarlett learns her lessons...when the story is over and it's too late.

Quite frankly, I'd be shocked to see a heroine like Scarlett in a JRPG. It would be just as revolutionary now as it was back then, a lady protagonist who is fiercely independent to the point of selfishness.She's a bad person but it's an intentional, incredibly believable type of badness.

Tin Can Hit Man posted:

I think some examples exist, but I don't think that was a central focus or element of any JRPG that immediately comes to mind. And if I'm absolutely honest, I'm not sure how well-received a game that tried to make that the central focus would be appreciated, or that people would get the subtle nuance of how women being selfish can be a revolutionary act, whereas men being selfish can't.

The Colonel posted:

i think we should all play drakengard 3

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Squall is probably the best example I can think of of actually doing the "unlikable to the point of being hostile to a player" thing well, but FF8 will always remain a cult game for (several) reasons.

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Squall is probably the best example I can think of of actually doing the "unlikable to the point of being hostile to a player" thing well, but FF8 will always remain a cult game for (several) reasons.

Samuringa posted:

Mine would be Luke but his whole thing was being literally 5 or so, and also extremely sheltered which kinda justifies being whiny.

GulagDolls posted:

yeah squall is less standoffish and more apologetic in jp..or it comes across better at times that he's uncomfortable and just wants out. waaah...stop teasing me...