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eke out posted:this is why it's a loving disaster for Roberts if the vote on witnesses is 50/50 (collins, murk, romney) and it's up to him This is true, but I'll apply the same thing to McConnell here: he's too good at his job to let this happen, just like Roberts is. If they have to sacrifice someone on the altar of preserving Roberts, they 100% will. He's not going to have to rule.
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Jan 30, 2020 15:35
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mcmagic posted:Isn't a 50-50 vote up to Pence, not him? nope
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Jan 30, 2020 15:35
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mcmagic posted:Isn't a 50-50 vote up to Pence, not him? If it were normal Senate business, yes, but the chief justice effectively replaces him for anything related to an impeachment trial, including the tiebreaking duty.
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Jan 30, 2020 15:38
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mcmagic posted:Isn't a 50-50 vote up to Pence, not him? Not when the Chief Justice is the presiding officer.
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Jan 30, 2020 15:38
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haveblue posted:If it were normal Senate business, yes, but the chief justice effectively replaces him for anything related to an impeachment trial, including the tiebreaking duty. I’m kind of amazed that someone thought of this. The last few years has really shown how fragile the American political system is when one side decides to ignore all the pinky swears and decorum-standards that hasn’t been replaced by hard, concrete legislation.
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Jan 30, 2020 15:42
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eke out posted:this is why it's a loving disaster for Roberts if the vote on witnesses is 50/50 (collins, murk, romney) and it's up to him Honestly I wonder how much of the lockstep GOP 'let's get this over with ASAP' is due to them being terrified of the Frankenstein's monster they've created. They likely hate and fear their own base that they depend on to survive because they know it could turn on them in an instant, and there's already been one instance of someone trying to kill a bunch of politicians at their baseball game since Trump was elected.
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Jan 30, 2020 15:43
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eke out posted:this is why it's a loving disaster for Roberts if the vote on witnesses is 50/50 (collins, murk, romney) and it's up to him I'd think he'd rather piss off the chuds because, well, what the gently caress are they gonna actually do about it? Note that I'm not counting tweets as doing something here because I can't imagine him caring about people saying mean things about him anymore.
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Jan 30, 2020 15:50
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Oracle posted:Honestly I wonder how much of the lockstep GOP 'let's get this over with ASAP' is due to them being terrified of the Frankenstein's monster they've created. They likely hate and fear their own base that they depend on to survive because they know it could turn on them in an instant, and there's already been one instance of someone trying to kill a bunch of politicians at their baseball game since Trump was elected. The baseball shooter was a leftist/liberal. Not sure if that was what you were trying to say, but it was unclear to me when I was reading through your post.
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Jan 30, 2020 15:59
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https://twitter.com/alandersh/status/1222892986637246466?s=21 Next time someone asks if the president can do whatever he asks, I’m sure he’ll backtrack yet again.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:12
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Going into this trial, I never considered for a moment that Trump would be removed. I did however hope that he would be given some sort of rebuke for his actions, even if it didn't amount more than some limp wristed "ok, just don't do it again." Instead, it looks like Senate Republicans are falling in line behind the Dershowitz doctrine, where everything and anything a (Republican) president does is hunky dory. Soliciting foreign aid today, jailing your political opponents tomorrow, it's all good if it helps your bid for re-election. Because after all, you are good and anything you do must therefore also be good for the country. The ends always justify the means. I don't even know where we go from here.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:13
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Munkeymon posted:I'd think he'd rather piss off the chuds because, well, what the gently caress are they gonna actually do about it? Note that I'm not counting tweets as doing something here because I can't imagine him caring about people saying mean things about him anymore. Roberts holds Republican values but he differs from the Trumpist flavor of the party in that he actually seems to care, at least a little bit, about how history is going to view his tenure as Chief Justice. If he can find a somewhat reasonable way to make a right wing ruling he’ll take it but he usually won’t start with the partisan ruling and justify it after the fact like Thomas or Gorsuch love to do. I think if he’s the tiebreak there’s a decent shot he’ll call for witnesses just to try to protect his legacy even if the right gets angry at him for a while.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:15
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Promoted Pawn posted:Roberts holds Republican values but he differs from the Trumpist flavor of the party in that he actually seems to care, at least a little bit, about how history is going to view his tenure as Chief Justice. If he can find a somewhat reasonable way to make a right wing ruling he’ll take it but he usually won’t start with the partisan ruling and justify it after the fact like Thomas or Gorsuch love to do. while i agree with your conclusion here quote:he usually won’t start with the partisan ruling and justify it after the fact like Thomas or Gorsuch love to do. is not correct, he's just much better at it than the rest of them and cares about his image enough to attempt to be perceived as fair
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Jan 30, 2020 16:17
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What ever happened to Parnas dropping a bombshell? Did that just fizzle out?
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Jan 30, 2020 16:18
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KillHour posted:What ever happened to Parnas dropping a bombshell? Did that just fizzle out? i think the 'bombshell' was that like, he sent a letter to Graham or something at some point? it seemed extremely boring and I feel validated about my skepticism yesterday
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Jan 30, 2020 16:20
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Almost Smart posted:Going into this trial, I never considered for a moment that Trump would be removed. I did however hope that he would be given some sort of rebuke for his actions, even if it didn't amount more than some limp wristed "ok, just don't do it again." It all comes down to 2020. If it's not an absolute slaughter up and down the ballot our democracy is for all intents and purpose finished.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:20
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KillHour posted:What ever happened to Parnas dropping a bombshell? Did that just fizzle out? Still waiting for the official testimony from him, though he outed McConnel in an interview last night as totally being in on the whole thing. Impeachment Thread: The Griftorium of Stoogey Parnasus
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Jan 30, 2020 16:21
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lol https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1222899283122249729
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Jan 30, 2020 16:22
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I'd love to hear him explain more how he didn't say what he said. Partially because I'm pretty sure he's going to reinforce that he did in fact say what he said while denying it.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:24
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Is the witness vote today?
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Jan 30, 2020 16:25
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Promoted Pawn posted:I think if he’s the tiebreak there’s a decent shot he’ll call for witnesses just to try to protect his legacy even if the right gets angry at him for a while. Yep, that's the pissing off the chuds I was referring to.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:26
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gregday posted:Is the witness vote today? no, tomorrow afternoon or evening
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Jan 30, 2020 16:26
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btw i found this interesting https://twitter.com/KDbyProxy/status/1222902028512288772 https://twitter.com/KDbyProxy/status/1222599768544817152 https://twitter.com/KDbyProxy/status/1222627897862651904
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Jan 30, 2020 16:26
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Promoted Pawn posted:Roberts holds Republican values but he differs from the Trumpist flavor of the party in that he actually seems to care, at least a little bit, about how history is going to view his tenure as Chief Justice. If he can find a somewhat reasonable way to make a right wing ruling he’ll take it but he usually won’t start with the partisan ruling and justify it after the fact like Thomas or Gorsuch love to do. Thomas is the least partisan judge on the court. Dude has rulings that are crazy consistent to his stated ideology. It is also true that his ideology is batshit crazy and unique to him. Because of this though, he is one of the most easy judges to predict ruling outcomes on. You probably meant Alito and Gorsuch.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:26
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So basically - he's saying that, for example, if the President chose to cancel Student Debt (knowing that this would make him more popular with a lot of the population and thus help them win re-election) it would not be impeachable. I get that - it's also not what Trump was doing with Ukraine.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:27
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Dameius posted:Thomas is the least partisan judge on the court. okay while i think this is a wild statement, it isn't the thread for discussing it Thom12255 posted:So basically - he's saying that, for example, if the President chose to cancel Student Debt (knowing that this would make him more popular with a lot of the population and thus help them win re-election) it would not be impeachable. I get that - it's also not what Trump was doing with Ukraine. i think that's extremely generous to dersh, we all agree that that wouldn't be impeachable what he's saying is basically this https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1222903718775074816 or, more specifically, if trump allowed it because he'd explicitly made a deal with Putin for help getting reelected, that'd still be totally fine eke out fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 16:29
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The only context where his statements aren’t a fascist wet dream would be if he’d use them to argue that the constitution is incredibly flawed, and that hanging any decision solely on it is incredibly stupid. But he’s actually arguing that the flaws and holes in the constitution is a GOOD thing because King-Emperor Trump is enabled to do as he pleases.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:36
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DandyLion posted:Still waiting for the official testimony from him, though he outed McConnel in an interview last night as totally being in on the whole thing. I think the biggest news to come out of this whole mess is that the entire GOP apparatus is completely compromised, not just Trump
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Jan 30, 2020 16:48
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Dameius posted:Thomas is the least partisan judge on the court. Dude has rulings that are crazy consistent to his stated ideology. It is also true that his ideology is batshit crazy and unique to him. Because of this though, he is one of the most easy judges to predict ruling outcomes on. You probably meant Alito and Gorsuch. The idea that any one of the 5 in Bush v Gore isn't a frothing partisan is a joke.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:48
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So does anything like precedent hold true to impeachment hearings like this? If Trump's acquitted, does that defacto mean that abusing power for election help becomes a permanent part of American politics that a future President would never be impeached for?
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Jan 30, 2020 16:57
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If President is backed by the GOP and NRA, he gets away with it, yes.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:58
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Lassitude posted:So does anything like precedent hold true to impeachment hearings like this? If Trump's acquitted, does that defacto mean that abusing power for election help becomes a permanent part of American politics that a future President would never be impeached for? It's not a hard precedent, but it sure as gently caress encourages the behavior. It's tacit approval essentially.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:59
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Lassitude posted:So does anything like precedent hold true to impeachment hearings like this? If Trump's acquitted, does that defacto mean that abusing power for election help becomes a permanent part of American politics that a future President would never be impeached for? there's no formal precedent set, only informal
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Jan 30, 2020 17:09
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also lol the one scholar Dersh said was a liberal and supported him? https://twitter.com/peltzmadeline/status/1222907970989838338
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Jan 30, 2020 17:09
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Lassitude posted:So does anything like precedent hold true to impeachment hearings like this? If Trump's acquitted, does that defacto mean that abusing power for election help becomes a permanent part of American politics that a future President would never be impeached for? I mean any President who's party controls 1/3 +1 of the Senate is an unaccountable monarch.
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Jan 30, 2020 17:13
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Doctor Butts posted:I'd love to hear him explain more how he didn't say what he said. Partially because I'm pretty sure he's going to reinforce that he did in fact say what he said while denying it. There were follow-up tweets. https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222892986637246466 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222904744227696641 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222904826356326400 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222905506001326081 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222906678372253697 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222906766142296065 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222906811910475776 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222907249003089922 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222907454159147008 https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/1222907503391858693 I mean, yeah, politicians having to keep optics in mind is an inherent trait of the democratic system. But that example is not at all the same situation, and it's stupid to compare them. The Obama example is a president making decisions based on the will of the people, which is exactly what a president is supposed to do. As compared to seeking foreign interference in the election in an attempt to manipulate the public.
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Jan 30, 2020 17:18
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Well I'm convinced now, thanks dersh
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Jan 30, 2020 17:19
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eke out posted:also lol the one scholar Dersh said was a liberal and supported him? Inject that CNN chyron right into my veins
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Jan 30, 2020 17:22
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https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1222919857827733504
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Jan 30, 2020 17:35
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Wow, I know that we're not supposed to empty quote but I did not expect this from Chuck Schumer...this is actually sound bite worthy :O
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Jan 30, 2020 17:40
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