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Kill Bristol posted:This is a stupid tangent though. If you feel that's an unfair characterization of what they said, then whatever, to each their own. Remember when I said that you were basically just describing the opposite of your own argument? The person you were quoting has their own opinion which does not necessarily perfectly align with the point you are trying to make. It is an unfair characterization to ignore the points they are making that are not direct rebuttals of what you are trying to assert. Good faith arguing involves acknowledging what your opponent is trying to say, not merely what they don't agree with in what you're trying to say. Basically: Jaxyon posted:I think you need to read any of my takes again, because you're being turned away by your inability to read my argument in a way that doesn't oppose yours. Hope this helps
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Feb 1, 2020 00:49
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God you all make cali seem so lovely
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Feb 1, 2020 00:56
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:God you all make cali seem so lovely Oh it is, don't move here
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Feb 1, 2020 01:00
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I'm not gonna keep posting about posting. Like I said, I think that's a fair characterization of their position, but to each their own. Does anyone have any data on whether or not the ADU laws that went into effect on the 1st have been effective so far? Obviously too soon to tell for sure, but would be interesting to see if there's been a spike in permits at least. The future for density in LA/SD/SF etc. unfortunately looks a lot like granny units in more yards I think, at least in the near term. Not ideal certainly, but better than the status quo. WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:God you all make cali seem so lovely Regardless of our exact position, I think most of us like this place and would like to be able to live here without having roomates until we're 45, which makes stuff like this so contentious.
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Feb 1, 2020 01:03
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:There are absolute ideological differences here and I'm not debating that but when things get contentious what I start doing is just posting my own experiences and how I got to my opinions. Hopefully it's illustrative and there have been times where people "farther down the road" shared a similar journey and helped me out. Yeah for me it was listening to local homeless and anti-gentrification advocates. I’ve never experienced housing insecurity in any significant way, so to hear how malicious landlords and threats of evictions destroy people’s mental state really helped me understand that protecting the rights of people to stay where they are must come first. If that makes me a NIMBY then so be it.
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Feb 1, 2020 01:05
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Kill Bristol posted:Does anyone have any data on whether or not the ADU laws that went into effect on the 1st have been effective so far? Obviously too soon to tell for sure, but would be interesting to see if there's been a spike in permits at least. LA relaxed restrictions years ago and there's been a surge in permit applications, though I'm trying to find the actual numbers on that. Anecdotally there's a bunch of companies trying to sell ADU + Financing packages, similar to solar. Edit: Here's a Curbed article that references data: https://www.curbed.com/2018/1/16/16897014/adus-development-us Also apparently LA has passed a law that will give you up to $75k to build an ADU if you put a formerly homeless person in it, and I didn't know that. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 01:16
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That seems pretty inefficient compared to just building more shelters, but hey, any water in a desert, it’s a good intermediate step at least.
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Feb 1, 2020 04:00
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Did everybody see that Gavin Newsom said PG&E, exact quote, "no longer exists"? Thread purpose accomplished, can be locked. what on how is i don't know what's happening
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Feb 1, 2020 05:16
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:God you all make cali seem so lovely Because it is
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Feb 1, 2020 05:19
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Doc Hawkins posted:what on Don’t worry nothing is happening and nothing will change.
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Feb 1, 2020 05:29
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e.pilot posted:Because it is and yet it's still one of like the top ten, twelve states, easy, on balance that's not an achievement, it's an indictment of america in general
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Feb 1, 2020 08:11
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Leperflesh posted:and yet it's still one of like the top ten, twelve states, easy, on balance 
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Feb 1, 2020 08:15
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Did everybody see that Gavin Newsom said PG&E, exact quote, "no longer exists"? Thread purpose accomplished, can be locked. Hahahahah Gavbot seems to have decided he must kill PG&E in order to fulfill the second law.
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Feb 1, 2020 10:10
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Leperflesh posted:e. or to put it another way, I think the actual way out of CA's housing crisis is the export of ten or twenty million people to places where they can afford to live, the concomitant collapse of service industries in the state, and finally a collapse in house prices as demand drops due to the increasingly undesirable nature of CA cities' living conditions where all services are prohibitively expensive. That's what I think is likely to happen, anyway, more likely than voters choosing to spend half a trillion dollars on public housing and that housing magically springing up out of the ground in excellent livable conditions overnight, the way it does in Cities & Skylines videos. Like when you give tax breaks and subsidies to banks we are all richer! And when you give tax breaks and subsidies to oil we are all closer together! And when you give tax breaks and subsidies to pharma we are all healthier! And when you give tax breaks and subsidies to GE we all ... have more bombs? And... It never works out for normal people. In this case building expensive units that are likely to become investments will lock up more space to be owned by the same rich people (and shell companies. See the Hannity-is-a-secret-landlord fiasco for some comedy there). Displacing anyone without solving that first is a bad plan. Also building things isnt a "right now" mode of thinking, or at least it shouldnt be. Thats were the Hong Kong (and Seattle) warnings come in. Build things that people will want to live in when they are not just college kids. Build things that families can live in, and stay in if they want to. And related to what Leperflesh said above, there is another unspoken argument being made that demands eternal growth in the same spaces. I have another unpopular opinion: sometimes a city should boot out an industry that is too big. Maybe Google and Amazon should build their company towns somewhere with more space, and using their own coffers (since what they are striving to do is build company towns anyway, just using other peoples money.) The other comedy raging on is the people that want to raze peoples homes so that they can live there in their place. "Get out if you dont like it" being the battlecry. No sense of irony at all. As someone that doenst own anything myself, I still dont think booting long term residents is a great plan. nrook posted:e: My best theory is "YIMBYism is popular with nerds, and there are more nerds in the bay area" but I'm not exactly confident in it If by nerds you mean various interests using proxies to develop their farms of servants? https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/12/homes-for-human-beings-millennial-driven-anti-nimby-movement-is-winning-with-a-simple-message/ quote:Meet the YIMBYs, a network of pro-development, tech-funded, ‘Yes-In-My-Backyard’ organizations quote:Perhaps the most common criticism of the movement comes from those who say it does little for the low-income tenants most severely affected by widening income inequality in the Bay Area. And the ultimate "if you dont like it leave" poster child from the article quote:“As a large employer myself, I’m like, ‘This is a disaster,'” Stoppelman said in an interview outside the group’s recent fundraiser. “I want to grow my business here in San Francisco. We love that we have our headquarters here — it’s where we started — but as rents ever escalate, it’s a real burden.” Cities should just suck it so that large tech employers can keep their own homes right where they are.  quote:The San Francisco-based YIMBY Party has raised more than $1 million over the past three years, said one of its leaders, Sonja Trauss. Yelp CEO Jeremy Stoppelman is the biggest benefactor, she said, donating roughly a quarter of that total. Hospitals and other big employers have also supported the efforts, as have some developers and real-estate investors. The coalition collects monthly dues from hundreds of members. Triiiiickle doooooooowwn!
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Feb 1, 2020 14:46
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Did everybody see that Gavin Newsom said PG&E, exact quote, "no longer exists"? Thread purpose accomplished, can be locked. That sounds way too good. quote:“If they can’t do it, we have no choice but to do it for them, because the economic and human cost, not just the environmental degradation, is so great that we will be in peril if we just sit back and let the markets do it for us,” he said. Ive been waiting to hear something that positive since the Davis/Enron/Brownout scam was pulled by Texas companies.
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Feb 1, 2020 14:53
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How does an investor owned utility eliminate the perverse incentives that caused PG&E to prioritize profit over things like line maintenance?
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Feb 1, 2020 20:10
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Was wondering how long it would take for “nativism, but for the bay” to rear its ugly head.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:35
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Tacier posted:How does an investor owned utility eliminate the perverse incentives that caused PG&E to prioritize profit over things like line maintenance? Well, you see, when this utility fails he won't be governor anymore so it's not his problem.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:57
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Kill Bristol posted:Was wondering how long it would take for “nativism, but for the bay” to rear its ugly head. Really the only people that should be allowed to live in California are Native Americans, IMO. Everyone else is just gentrifying their land.
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Feb 1, 2020 21:34
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“Build a wall around SF and keep all the filthy newcomers out, I’m a leftist (leftier than thou) btw” I do think it’s worth distinguishing that kind of thinking from leftists that are pro density but against additional market rate development. I still mostly don’t agree with that but it’s an infinitely more reasonable position. People who complain about density for what amount to aesthetic reasons or because of poo poo like parking deserve only scorn.
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Feb 1, 2020 23:01
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I don't think I've seen a grocery store in over a week that hasn't had "Extend Prop 13!" signature tables at both entrances. Just came back from Lucky and there were at least three people lined up at either table to sign. 
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Feb 1, 2020 23:30
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is it assault to grab their papers and fling them into the parking lot
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Feb 2, 2020 00:52
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the failure of the Gas Tax measure has me very cautiously optimistic about the prop 13 extension/efforts to end it for commercial property.
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Feb 2, 2020 04:34
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Kill Bristol posted:the failure of the Gas Tax measure has me very cautiously optimistic about the prop 13 extension/efforts to end it for commercial property. The failure to kill the death penalty and instead, pass a measure to speed up deaths has me pessimistic as well.
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Feb 2, 2020 18:00
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FCKGW posted:The failure to kill the death penalty and instead, pass a measure to speed up deaths has me pessimistic as well. Thanks for bringing this up, I had managed to forget about it and now I'm remembering how lovely it was. gently caress. The politics of the death penalty are so awful.
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Feb 2, 2020 18:05
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Prop. 47 passed though. In short, the electorate is a land of contests.... Conventional Sacramento wisdom has the main “swing vote” on propositions being white kinda-liberal mothers, so it’s all a matter of framing things to them. Idk how empirically true that is, to my knowledge no one has done any kind of rigorous analysis of that theory, but it’s what the people who work in the election industrial complex believe at any rate.
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Feb 2, 2020 20:45
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Kill Bristol posted:Was wondering how long it would take for “nativism, but for the bay” to rear its ugly head. I can put up with a lot of diverse opinions, but I hate people that just attack people in tech. They’re just using the homeless problem to attack their silly complaint of the day, even though the homeless problem in SF goes back to the days when most families didn’t even own a computer.
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Feb 2, 2020 22:35
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Craptacular! posted:I can put up with a lot of diverse opinions, but I hate people that just attack people in tech. They’re just using the homeless problem to attack their silly complaint of the day, even though the homeless problem in SF goes back to the days when most families didn’t even own a computer. The "deport techies", "why can't they just go back to where they came from", stuff that I hear is the one that really makes me look at people funny. It can be really hard to tell when someone who goes off on an "I hate techies, they're too culturally different from everything that is good about the city and should stop invading my city, no one who really belongs should want them here"-type tangent whether they're complaining about gentrification, dudebro culture, late-stage capitalism and VC money, or having to see too many non-white foreigners who make more money than them.
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Feb 3, 2020 00:52
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It’s particularly vile because computer touching is increasingly going to be one of the main ways that the middle/working class can survive in the face of things like automation. Smart leftists are trying to get tech workers to realize that they are in fact workers, and have more in common with bus drivers than the guy who owns their company, no matter how ~cool~ he is. But there are plenty of stupid leftists ,in the bay particularly ,whose idea of praxis is shouting “DIE TECHIES” at random JavaScript programmers.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:13
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Nine times out of ten the shrillest anti-tech people are transplants themselves or the children of transplants. You can occasionally run into a really old person from San Jose who misses the days when there were prune orchards everywhere and everyone voted Republican. Those guys are *really* bitter about people “invading” their town.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:24
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Kill Bristol posted:It’s particularly vile because computer touching is increasingly going to be one of the main ways that the middle/working class can survive in the face of things like automation. Smart leftists are trying to get tech workers to realize that they are in fact workers, and have more in common with bus drivers than the guy who owns their company This one bedroom apartment is $1425, you can apply... NO WAY ILL GIVE YOU 1600 A MONTH IF YOU TAKE ME NOW ...doesnt make other people feel good about housing issues when nonlocal tech people show up with their triple normal salaries and no interest in the area outside of GIMME DAT AMAZON CASH. Eventually sure, they will become as disrespected as fast food workers when every highschool kid graduates knowing webdev work better than they know algebra, but as of now its still an issue.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:30
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Also the tech buses stealing public resources plus AirBnB being smug as gently caress about paying taxes probably poisoned the well for a few folks.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:32
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This is one of people challenging the incumbent Republican for congress in my district, CA42 (Inland Empire). She’s having a real normal one today. https://twitter.com/eatinginmycar/status/1223994072777527296?s=21 https://twitter.com/disco_socialist/status/1223903898806571008?s=21 https://twitter.com/disco_socialist/status/1224010586373029888?s=21 I can’t find the tweet, but she also said she used to say the n word as a kid until her parents made her pay $1 every time she did. After it cost her $20 she finally stopped. 
FCKGW fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 02:49
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This is is the other challenger that is running btw (he’s endorsed by DSA) https://twitter.com/liamomaraiv/status/1224097919877337088?s=21
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Feb 3, 2020 03:00
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FRINGE posted:This one bedroom apartment is $1425, you can apply... hell yeah build the wall, keep those filthy ~nonlocals~ in search of economic opportunity out Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 06:57
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FCKGW posted:This is is the other challenger that is running btw (he’s endorsed by DSA) https://twitter.com/LizMednick/status/1223996957389205511 https://twitter.com/LiamOMaraIV/status/1224146295549333504 lol hell yeah  
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Feb 3, 2020 07:19
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:God you all make cali seem so lovely I loved where I grew up and then I got priced out of there to Sacramento 10 years ago and in a few months I'm out of the state entirely. California is great, its too bad about the capitalists
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Feb 3, 2020 08:13
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atelier morgan posted:I loved where I grew up and then I got priced out of there to Sacramento 10 years ago and in a few months I'm out of the state entirely. California is great, its too bad about the capitalists capitalists, while shitstains, are not the primary source of california's woes. hope that helps.
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Feb 3, 2020 08:41
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Kill Bristol posted:hell yeah build the wall, keep those filthy ~nonlocals~ in search of economic opportunity out You are mentally ... non-present.
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Feb 3, 2020 08:57
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FRINGE posted:You are mentally ... non-present. please do expound on what conditions you consider morally justifiable for someone to immigrate to california.
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Feb 3, 2020 09:00
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