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Sir Tonk
Apr 18, 2006
Young Orc

Mahoning posted:

https://twitter.com/jefmbv/status/1223825203383242752?s=21

In case anyone was believing Tom Watson for a millisecond.

tom cant be that stupid

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Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

ded redd
Aug 1, 2010

by Fluffdaddy

Sir Tonk posted:

tom cant be that stupid

Of course he is.

Nairbo
Jan 2, 2005

Sir Tonk posted:

tom cant be that stupid

Look at his timeline for even five minutes. This isn’t even his greatest achievement

oxsnard
Oct 8, 2003

I remember 14 years ago when I thought he was a radical leftist

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

generic one posted:


I’m not really sure how much energy I have left to go back and forth with you on this, honestly. So, let me try and summarize. You argued that post-Federalist Society speech, she moved to MA, a largely blue state, and changed her political affiliation because she wanted to go all in on getting some of that sweet, sweet Democratic Party recognition, in the hope that everyone would just forget about her being a Republican.

I think I have that right. Please correct me, if I don’t.

I suggested there was a simpler explanation: It wasn’t any sort of precognition or strategy, because the Democratic Party wouldn’t have given a poo poo about her speaking to the Federalist Society in the context of it being the 90s. It’s literally that simple. Occam’s razor.

There are plenty of factual reasons to be against Warren. I don’t think we need to make loose interpretations of events and list those as negatives in order to make an argument against her candidacy.

I said nothing about "going all in" or "precognition." You can't be this stupid.

She was someone who was at the very top of academic law. She switched party affiliations within 12 months of moving from a state that hadn't elected a democrat to senate since the 60s to one that hadn't elected a republican since the early 70s. Was she thinking of running for senate back then? Was she thinking of an appointment to cabinet, regulatory agency or judiciary and considering that senators can use the blue slip to block nominations? Was she thinking of just influencing them by meeting them face to face? Who the gently caress cares. The point is just the pattern of always changing her opinion when it is maximally beneficial to her career. Which ones were sincere conversions that just coincidentally benefited her versus which ones were cold calculations is a stupid argument to have.

TyrantWD
Nov 6, 2010
Ignore my doomerism, I don't think better things are possible
I echo what others said about this poll probably being really bad for Mayo Pete. It’s only a matter of time before his voters consolidate behind Biden, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that swing had already begun.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

TyrantWD posted:

I echo what others said about this poll probably being really bad for Mayo Pete. It’s only a matter of time before his voters consolidate behind Biden, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that swing had already begun.

Nothing would make me happier, but no other polls have suggested this.

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

Main Paineframe posted:

At this point, absolutely not. The good press in the moment would be incredibly valuable right now, because polling well helps convince voters that the candidate is viable, which will have a positive impact on the actual voting. It's the same reason Iowa and NH are make-or-break moments - performing well helps convince voters that a candidate is capable of performing well, which increases their confidence that the candidate is worth picking.


Theoretically, a Biden type campaign may want to tank super good outliers. I don't think he's quite at the level where they would want to, but a candidate that had a very unenthusiastic but sizable base wouldn't want to give their voters incentive to not turn out.

It's hard to thread the hypothetical needle to create such a campaign in a primary though. General Election Hillary's situation isn't going to be replicated where all the candidates in the primary are historically unpopular.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

The CNN Pollmaster returns home the night before the day the polls will be released. "That was some good polling, and I look forward to informing America tomorrow," he thinks. But upon entering his house, he sees a silhouette with a faintly rat-shaped face sitting in his living room chair, cradling a pistol.

The results were never released.

Sir Tonk
Apr 18, 2006
Young Orc

oxsnard posted:

I remember 14 years ago when I thought he was a radical leftist

is that the dude behind kos?

Biscats n Gravy
Jun 13, 2018

Smile.
Pete's loving toast I'm calling it now. The signs have been pointing in that direction for a while but the fact this poo poo show is happening and the only lead we have is it involves is supporters and campaign complaining to CNN and DMR pretty much clinches what I already thought about him being super close to dropping out.

Sir Tonk
Apr 18, 2006
Young Orc

Biscats n Gravy posted:

Pete's loving toast I'm calling it now. The signs have been pointing in that direction for a while but the fact this poo poo show is happening and the only lead we have is it involves is supporters and campaign complaining to CNN and DMR pretty much clinches what I already thought about him being super close to dropping out.

is butteggeig the hermain cain of 2020?

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

Fredo, come out and tell us what happened! Do reporting! Why must they cancel your show?

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Wicked Them Beats posted:

I do think people should be up front about who they're supporting. For example knowing that someone supports Pete gives me a clear indicator of just how huge a racist they probably are and that seems like useful info to have in a discussion.

Yeah, I would argue that participating in a thread/discussion like this without actually being explicit about your own opinions is basically tantamount to trolling by any reasonable definition (since it's basically being deliberately deceptive through omission).

It's also just not conducive to useful discussion, because it leads to people constantly trying to infer what they're trying to imply.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Sir Tonk posted:

is butteggeig the hermain cain of 2020?

Nah, his surge was in October, which is actually around when Warren surged. Of course, Warren didn't have sexual harassment allegations tank her campaign, it was just policy, so not really analogous there either.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Imagine not instantly despising that loving rat face and those dead psychopath eyes. What could drive someone to love mayonnaise?

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012

Harrow posted:

Completely hypothetical question: would there ever be a reason for a campaign to want to spike a poll that shows them unrealistically ahead? Let's say Pete's internal polling is fairly consistent and a poll shows up that's a clear outlier with him way ahead. His campaign knows he'd vastly underperform that poll which would look bad. Would they want to bury that poll or would the good press in the moment be worth the risk?

This is just out of curiosity, not because I think it's realistic, really.

I can't imagine a scenario like this when enthusiasm matters so much.

But that is less important. I was more considering it from DMR's perspective. If they are in line with other polls, fixing a problem and releasing it anyways is no big deal because no one would accuse a poll that is the same as every other of being biased and misleading, regardless of result. If they are an outlier that favors Pete, releasing it is no big deal because if they are wrong the Pete campaign wouldn't be able to use this to accuse them of bias. The only reason, as DMR, you'd kill this poll is if it's an outlier that is negative for the campaign that is complaining about it to you. Because at that point even if it turns out you were right the campaign is going to blame your poll for killing enthusiasm and claim they warned you.

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

https://twitter.com/ChrisCuomo/status/1223786394172252161

:ironicat:

Edit: It's 7 minutes before the cast was supposed to happen. I'm on EST.

Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Feb 2, 2020

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018
The DMR poll result was just a picture of Bernie doing the Jeb! god meme in front of the state of Iowa

Awful CompSloth
Dec 15, 2018

Biscats n Gravy posted:

Pete's loving toast I'm calling it now. The signs have been pointing in that direction for a while but the fact this poo poo show is happening and the only lead we have is it involves is supporters and campaign complaining to CNN and DMR pretty much clinches what I already thought about him being super close to dropping out.

I must have missed it, what's going on with Pete behind the scenes?

AsInHowe
Jan 11, 2007

red winged angel

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Imagine not instantly despising that loving rat face and those dead psychopath eyes. What could drive someone to love mayonnaise?

Obama, But White And Gay

generic one
Oct 2, 2004

I wish I was a little bit taller
I wish I was a baller
I wish I had a wookie in a hat with a bat
And a six four Impala


Nap Ghost

joepinetree posted:

I said nothing about "going all in" or "precognition." You can't be this stupid.

She was someone who was at the very top of academic law. She switched party affiliations within 12 months of moving from a state that hadn't elected a democrat to senate since the 60s to one that hadn't elected a republican since the early 70s. Was she thinking of running for senate back then? Was she thinking of an appointment to cabinet, regulatory agency or judiciary and considering that senators can use the blue slip to block nominations? Was she thinking of just influencing them by meeting them face to face? Who the gently caress cares. The point is just the pattern of always changing her opinion when it is maximally beneficial to her career. Which ones were sincere conversions that just coincidentally benefited her versus which ones were cold calculations is a stupid argument to have.

I get all that. You believe Warren’s had a thirty year long charade going on just to get to where she is, based on some speculative tea-leaf reading of her career choices. I don’t think it’s that complicated, and figure focusing on the actual stuff that we know about her that’s bad is a better selling point than speculation that can’t be realistically proven. Maybe that’s “stupid”. Good luck with your method of persuasion, I’ll stick with mine.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

generic one posted:

I get all that. You believe Warren’s had a thirty year long charade going on just to get to where she is, based on some speculative tea-leaf reading of her career choices. I don’t think it’s that complicated, and figure focusing on the actual stuff that we know about her that’s bad is a better selling point than speculation that can’t be realistically proven. Maybe that’s “stupid”. Good luck with your method of persuasion, I’ll stick with mine.

You’re making it sound like Warren has to be psychic to be politically craven.

Tacier
Jul 22, 2003

I took the recently updated Washington Post quiz to see which candidate is most aligned with my positions, and surprise—it’s Warren!

It’s so obvious how far out of its way the quiz goes to separate Sanders from the pack with loaded questions about unintuitive policies and then lumps Warren with all his progressive proposals, even if they have to misrepresent her positions to do it (she’s listed as wanting to eliminate all student debt for low income families, as opposed to the “eliminate some debt” option.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

generic one posted:

I get all that. You believe Warren’s had a thirty year long charade going on just to get to where she is, based on some speculative tea-leaf reading of her career choices. I don’t think it’s that complicated, and figure focusing on the actual stuff that we know about her that’s bad is a better selling point than speculation that can’t be realistically proven. Maybe that’s “stupid”. Good luck with your method of persuasion, I’ll stick with mine.

He's not saying it's some carefully planned out charade; he's just saying that she doesn't really have many real or strong beliefs and adapts her beliefs on the fly in whatever way is advantageous to her.

edit: Basically, if you only looked at her Republican to Democrat conversation, maybe I'd agree that her feelings just naturally changed at the same time as many Democrats'. But her career is full of her adopting opinions only when they're "safe" and will benefit her career.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Concerned Citizen posted:

that's absolute bullshit

edit: and even if it was true it wouldn't actually hurt bernie sanders because the delegate value of each caucus is determined months in advance, and it's the same even if only 1 person shows up

apparently it's sort of true but relates to only a single location where litigation was threatened by neighboring businesses or something

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018
Lmao

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1223839756234215424?s=19

Also:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1223837731056427009?s=19

:hmmyes:

Failed Imagineer fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Feb 2, 2020

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

https://twitter.com/GravelInstitute/status/1223795775383183360?s=19

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007


Let it be true. For the love of god.

Hillary did it.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Trump is getting better at comedy and it’s making the left nervous. That’s the first actual joke he’s managed in the last three years, isn’t it?

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

I feel like if any more direct ratfucking occurs, it won't occur until Bernie is on a clear path to victory. I believe they're not bold enough to do that before (they'll probably continue telling themselves that there's no way he'll actually win).

I think Hillary Clinton was actually kind of unusually direct in terms of being a "schemer." The DNC opposes Bernie and will avoid things that benefit him and support things that hurt him, but I don't think they'll take direct and obvious action against him unless they feel forced to (which is entirely possible if it seems like he's going to win, since it could have big ramifications for their careers).

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Trump is getting better at comedy and it’s making the left nervous. That’s the first actual joke he’s managed in the last three years, isn’t it?

*Gestures at his whole administration*

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

They gotta know how fishy this poll thing looks right

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007

One thing that will be overlooked in this era is just how loving hilarious Trump can be. Him constantly ripping the veneer off of everyone in both his party and the Dems and revealing the whole process to be the absolute sham that it is will never not be funny.

Too bad he’s a fascist and a racist too.

El Burbo
Oct 10, 2012


Trump would destroy bloomberg in the general, holy poo poo

El Burbo
Oct 10, 2012

Folks, he's so small, you need a magnifying glass to see him. Smallest in the world, I've heard

fondue
Jul 14, 2002

Sir Tonk posted:

is that the dude behind kos?

Yes.

Paracausal
Sep 5, 2011

Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.
Feeling pretty wistful so I'm offering my solidarity for all those campaigning in Iowa from the antipodes. The cause of Labor is the hope of the world, may you reach for that light on the hill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Rfkhg7s_M

Paracausal fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Feb 2, 2020

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Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.
i dunno if its a super reasonable request but when you guys post funny tweets that are getting poo poo on, can you take a pic of them cause i feel like 90% of the time they've been ratioed and deleted before i even get to them

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