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Seph posted:Are we talking before or after Nation of Islam? Would you say your opinion would be "malcolm x got what was coming, he got what he asked for this time"?
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Feb 5, 2020 04:13
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Trabisnikof posted:Would you say your opinion would be "malcolm x got what was coming, he got what he asked for this time"? No I dont really wish death on anyone if that's what you're getting at.
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Feb 5, 2020 04:27
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Seph posted:No I dont really wish death on anyone if that's what you're getting at. Fair enough, how about, what are your feelings on busing for school desegregation?
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Feb 5, 2020 04:34
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the joke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nFvhhCulaw
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Feb 5, 2020 05:27
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I'm kind of impressed my shittybposting summoned the avatar of white fragility. Makes me think I should take up Lotto again.
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Feb 5, 2020 06:24
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Seph posted:Oh word I can choose not to be white? Thanks for the tip! Ya bud it's literally the only cool thing about whiteness is that you can set it down and leave it behind you. I bet you've got Irish or fuckin' Dutch ancestry or whatever, or your family are from Appalachia, or you're French Canadian, or you're Catholic, or an anarchist, or a loving World of Warcraft player. Find meaning elsewhere.
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Feb 5, 2020 08:57
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Seph posted:Oh word I can choose not to be white? Thanks for the tip!
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Feb 5, 2020 15:37
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Kenning posted:Ya bud it's literally the only cool thing about whiteness is that you can set it down and leave it behind you. I bet you've got Irish or fuckin' Dutch ancestry or whatever, or your family are from Appalachia, or you're French Canadian, or you're Catholic, or an anarchist, or a loving World of Warcraft player. Find meaning elsewhere. Don't forget the possible Cherokee great grandma.
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Feb 5, 2020 15:58
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"White fragility" was made up by a grifter, btw. You should find a better term. Just pointing that out.
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Feb 5, 2020 18:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:"White fragility" was made up by a grifter, btw. You should find a better term. Just pointing that out.
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Feb 5, 2020 18:40
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FilthyImp posted:Didn't know that. It's hard to find something that captures the essence so succinctly though. Maybe White Fright? I thought it was describing a pathology specific to white people where they (and I'm white, so I guess I should say "we") get angry when we're criticized as a monolithic block based on our skin color, I don't know. It's not really fright. There's an element of confusion and an element of defensiveness. Just being honest here.
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Feb 5, 2020 19:02
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Leperflesh posted:While Seph and I apparently agree on the maybe we don't have to constantly beat the  for real though, the sneering dismissal anything that isn’t Che cosplay gets old fast, especially because there are literally dozens of other threads to talk about that a click away. Seph, a quick glance at your post history makes it look like you aren’t actually alt-right or anything at least in this thread , so I’ll try and explain why that comment got so much flack: “anti-white racism” is a term used frequently by white supremacists and the alt-right in online spaces, which is why it got so many people’s hackles up, among other reasons. Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 5, 2020 |
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Feb 5, 2020 19:08
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drum in every loving discussion, I want to state with absolutely unequivocal clarity that: gently caress this parenthetical comment completely
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:"White fragility" was made up by a grifter, btw. You should find a better term. Just pointing that out. huh, i didn't know that either looks like she figured out how to sell a new "anti-bias" flavor of diversity training
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Feb 5, 2020 19:10
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Kill Bristol posted:
yeah, it just doesn't belong in this, the california politics debate and discussion thread
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Feb 5, 2020 19:16
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What is even the point of having regional threads if the solution to everything is evidently “have revolution, problem solved”? Just to talk about food?
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Feb 5, 2020 19:26
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Kill Bristol posted:
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Feb 5, 2020 19:27
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In the USA the existing power structure is mostly white and powerful people are often lovely. Theres no argument from me there. What sucks is when people extrapolate "white people in power are bad" to "all white people are bad" in the same way it sucks when people extrapolate "Muslim terrorists kill some people" to "all muslims are bad" or whatever racist example you want to use. Like, in China they are literally genocoding an entire minority ethnicity, but that doesnt give me latitude to say all Han Chinese are bad. I'm not denying there are tons of lovely white people, it's the extrapolation that is kinda bothersome. Seph fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Feb 5, 2020 |
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Feb 5, 2020 19:28
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It's not that all white people are bad, it's that they all smell weird and can't dance and look stupid and sound like this: duhhhhhhhhhhh
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Feb 5, 2020 19:30
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Seph posted:In the USA the existing power structure is mostly white and powerful people are often lovely. Theres no argument from me there. What sucks is when people extrapolate "white people in power are bad" to "all white people are bad" in the same way it sucks when people extrapolate "Muslim terrorists kill some people" to "all muslims are bad" or whatever racist example you want to use. all cops are bastards too
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Feb 5, 2020 19:33
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lmao do you seriously think this is an own? that I am the only person to use that exact term in this thread? do you not know what a metaphor is? like you made a screenshot and everything.
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Feb 5, 2020 19:34
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Cup Runneth Over posted:all cops are bastards too 
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Feb 5, 2020 19:40
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Seph posted:In the USA the existing power structure is mostly white and powerful people are often lovely. Theres no argument from me there. What sucks is when people extrapolate "white people in power are bad" to "all white people are bad" in the same way it sucks when people extrapolate "Muslim terrorists kill some people" to "all muslims are bad" or whatever racist example you want to use. imagine arguing this in this demon cracker nation
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Feb 5, 2020 19:44
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acksplode posted:It's not that all white people are bad, it's that they all smell weird and can't dance and look stupid and sound like this: duhhhhhhhhhhh We smell weird????!?!?
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Feb 5, 2020 19:56
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Kill Bristol posted:
I may think helping to secure a future for our children is a good thing, but I am distinctly not going to use that phrase.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:02
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Kill Bristol posted:lmao do you seriously think this is an own? that I am the only person to use that exact term in this thread? do you not know what a metaphor is? Nice meltdown
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Feb 5, 2020 20:14
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buddy you’re the one searching the thread and then taking screenshots in some weird attempt at a burn.HelloSailorSign posted:I may think helping to secure a future for our children is a good thing, but I am distinctly not going to use that phrase. I also feel bad for people who are now 32/33 who happens to have usernames that include their birth year.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:17
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Seph posted:In the USA the existing power structure is mostly white and powerful people are often lovely. Theres no argument from me there. What sucks is when people extrapolate "white people in power are bad" to "all white people are bad" in the same way it sucks when people extrapolate "Muslim terrorists kill some people" to "all muslims are bad" or whatever racist example you want to use. "White" isn't an ethnicity my dude. It's an ultra-flexible idea that is solely used to consolidate political power in a racial context. That's why Italians, Irish, and Jew could become white over the course of the 20th century (they were emphatically not white in the 19th century). There was even a brief moment in the late 90s when Arabs were moving towards whiteness in America, which was mostly because a lot of Arab immigrants at that point were conservative small business owners who represented a potentially valuable constituency right-wing politicians. Jews, incidentally, are starting to lose their status as "white" with the reemergence of genuine white supremacy politics. When people say "gently caress white people" or "whiteness is a sickness" they're not saying that people with low levels of melanin and European features are inherently bad individuals. It's reflective of the fact that anyone who carries being white as a core element of their identity is necessarily either the architect of racial oppression or a pawn of such people. To the degree that I have an ethnic identity that is meaningful to me, I consider myself a Californian, and more specifically, someone from the Central Valley. There's meaningful content to that identity that involves values, culture, cuisine, and community. I am also white, but that's only relevant to the degree to which people will try to use that fact to recruit me to awful political causes. You probably also have similarly productive identities that are something other than "white". I encourage you to embrace those.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:28
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So how 'bout that high-speed rail project? Everybody got their tickets for the Inaugural Ride, sometime in 2054?
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Feb 5, 2020 20:29
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Seph posted:In the USA the existing power structure is mostly white and powerful people are often lovely. Theres no argument from me there. What sucks is when people extrapolate "white people in power are bad" to "all white people are bad" in the same way it sucks when people extrapolate "Muslim terrorists kill some people" to "all muslims are bad" or whatever racist example you want to use. This is still offtopic but I'm gonna try and explain. Once. White people in America benefit from enormous privilege, just by being white. We don't have to do anything to gain these benefits. When a black person goes about their ordinary business they have to constantly have a sort of spidey-sense awareness, because they know that if someone hints at a bit of racism, they are in actual danger. When a black person walks into a store, they know the security has taken note of them in a way that does not happen for the white customers; and if that security decides to call the police, they know that their life is in mortal danger in a way that isn't true for white people. Statistically. Not in every case, but broadly, across our American society. Moreover, the danger isn't only immediate and personal. Black people, Jewish people, queer people, they all know that whatever imperfect degree of freedom from bigotry and abuse they've recently gained, it's tenuous and can easily roll back. People still get shot in synagogue or a black church. White supremacists are still trying to roll back towards jim crow and they have a representative in the white house who is happy to say on the record that there are good people "on both sides." Bigotry and racism isn't just what's institutionalized. A minority person in America isn't only affected by formal laws that disadvantage them; they're affected both personally by the bigoted attitudes of the people they interact with and depend on for safety, employment, freedom, etc. and affected as a group by the swings of public opinion and policy. Minority people see their neighborhoods disadvantaged, their religions denigrated and used as leverage against them, their loyalty to America questioned, their sexual identities attacked, as a group as well as individually. Meanwhile, white people have none of these problems. There is no recent past in which white people were broadly and systematically oppressed both by the laws and policies of government and by the attitudes and practices of the public. There is no centuries of legacy of racism against white people that a significant fraction of the country longs to return to. There's no broad fear by a large majority of people that the white people might get out of control and turn violent and take over and make things worse. They're already violent, in control, and have been the consistent cause of making things worse, since the first white people landed in north america. So when someone says that such and such policy or rule or opinion might be "racist against white people" they are creating a false equivalency. Even if, nominally, that policy might shift the balance of advantage against a white person in one particular respect, that white person is not actually in danger of living in a society that has become actually dangerous for them, their family, their freedom, their livelihood, and their future, solely because of their whiteness. When affirmative action policies at universities result in a white person with barely-good-enough-to-qualify test scores losing out on a slot to a person of color with slightly-worse-than-that test scores, that white person may have suffered a setback in that one instance solely due to their skin color: but that white person is not, now, magically subjected to a more oppressive society, one which treats them with greater suspicion in all instances, harasses them using the cops, arrests them more often, shoots them to death while unarmed because of ingrained fear of their race, puts them into jail more and gives them harsher sentences; passes their resumes up for job opportunities because they have a black-sounding name, disadvantages them in job interviews because they're black, is less likely to extend them a home loan because of their skin color, etc. etc. etc. It just means in this one case this one white person might have to go to a marginally less prestigious university. "Racist against white people" is what white racists say as a tactic to diminish and marginalize and fight against reformers trying to reduce the degree to which our American society is still harshly and ridiculously racist to non-white people. "Racist against white people" is a call sign, a way for white racists to signal to each other that they're not alone, that they have a common agenda, that they can elect this particular person and they'll be on the side of white supremecy even if they can't or don't say out loud the more explicitly racist things that risk losing the marginally-racist-but-doesn't-think-of-themselves-that-way voter. "Racist against white people" actually means "insufficiently deferential to white privilege." You may not have meant it that way. You may have reasonably concluded that in a truly just society, there shouldn't be rules or laws or language that attacks white people just for being white. But we do not live in a truly just society, the balance remains enormously in favor of us white people in virtually every aspect of our lives, and when someone uses the word "honkey" or argues in favor of affirmative action, that does not actually carry with it the implicit threat of centuries of incredibly violent oppression that racism against black people carries. I hope that helps. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Feb 5, 2020 |
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Feb 5, 2020 20:34
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CPColin posted:So how 'bout that high-speed rail project? Everybody got their tickets for the Inaugural Ride, sometime in 2054? Hi spend low velocity train
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Feb 5, 2020 20:35
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It’s seriously insane and an indictment of this entire countries transit policy that there is no reliable rail service between LA and SF that gets you there in a reasonable timeframe. They’re two of the largest population centers in the country! Every other developed country and plenty of developing ones pull this off! Why exactly did the HSR project fail? I remember being so excited for it in high school 
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Feb 5, 2020 20:35
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Basically once the rail project got started everybody everywhere went for maximum cash grab and also Trump got elected and it's not getting done without federal funding(which it should have). Worth noting that everyone in Japan basically whined about how the Shinkansen was going to be a boondoggle until it got done and now people will knife you for stalking poo poo about it. This all got discussed in detail pages ago.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:38
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Kill Bristol posted:It’s seriously insane and an indictment of this entire countries transit policy that there is no reliable rail service between LA and SF that gets you there in a reasonable timeframe. They’re two of the largest population centers in the country! Every other developed country and plenty of developing ones pull this off! A) it hasn't entirely failed, but B) because it requires purchasing right-of-way through thousands of properties, there's intense political pressure from dozens of stakeholders along the proposed path and other not-proposed paths to make the rail go here or there or not-here or not-there, there are HSR opponents who actively do everything they can to foul up the works and make it costlier and slower, and ultimately despite being pro-transit liberals the majority of Californians really don't want to actually pay for transit infrastructure. Also America has completely lost its domestic train manufacturing industry, we contract with foreign companies who temporarily open american bases of operation in order to fulfill contracts that require US-based bidders, fulfill those contracts, and then shut down those american sub-companies, so there's no long-term entrenched expert train-building infrastructure which means every contract is vastly more expensive to fill. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Feb 5, 2020 |
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Feb 5, 2020 20:39
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I didn’t know that about the Shinkansen. That actually does give me a little hope.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:41
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Trains are good, white people are bad, and some white people are extra bad because they gently caress up the trains.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:43
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Kenning posted:"White" isn't an ethnicity my dude. It's an ultra-flexible idea that is solely used to consolidate political power in a racial context. That's why Italians, Irish, and Jew could become white over the course of the 20th century (they were emphatically not white in the 19th century). There was even a brief moment in the late 90s when Arabs were moving towards whiteness in America, which was mostly because a lot of Arab immigrants at that point were conservative small business owners who represented a potentially valuable constituency right-wing politicians. Jews, incidentally, are starting to lose their status as "white" with the reemergence of genuine white supremacy politics. White also happens to by a physical descriptor commonly used throughout society. To 99% of people when you say something like "gently caress white people" they're going to interpret it as "gently caress white looking people" and not "gently caress people who associate themselves with the constructed white identity that has dominated minorities for centuries". That being said I do agree with you about whiteness not being an ethnicity and not something you should build your identity around. Anyway I'm going to stop here since I dont want to derail train chat.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:44
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Seph posted:White also happens to by a physical descriptor commonly used throughout society. To 99% of people when you say something like "gently caress white people" they're going to interpret it as "gently caress white looking people" and not "gently caress people who associate themselves with the constructed white identity that has dominated minorities for centuries". That being said I do agree with you about whiteness not being an ethnicity and not something you should build your identity around. Actually the only people who interpret it as "gently caress white looking people" are white people, pretty much everyone else gets that it means "gently caress white acting people". That's because any criticism of those in power must be met with strenuous objection.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:51
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Private car ownership compounds the west’s worst economic policy mistake of the past half century, encouraging private homeownership. It’s insane how many problems could be solved or alleviated by more trains and apartments.
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Feb 5, 2020 20:54
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I'll say it again but the SF/LA train was hosed the moment it didn't ram right down Interstate 5 and through the middle of the Tejon Pass by any means necessary, preferably gunpoint. 
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Feb 5, 2020 21:09
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Leperflesh posted:A) it hasn't entirely failed, but B) because it requires purchasing right-of-way through thousands of properties, there's intense political pressure from dozens of stakeholders along the proposed path and other not-proposed paths to make the rail go here or there or not-here or not-there, there are HSR opponents who actively do everything they can to foul up the works and make it costlier and slower, and ultimately despite being pro-transit liberals the majority of Californians really don't want to actually pay for transit infrastructure. Uggh, federalism fucks US transit policy so much. Another big issue, like you mentioned, is that there's no supply pooling. There's no reason that the same group of manufacturers couldn't make trains for every city in the country. Resulting in economies of scale, greater institutional expertise, more people trained with the equipment, etc. One of the reasons transit is cheaper to build in many other countries is because one company essentially makes the same system over and over again and gets really good at it. Instead one group makes trains for BART, another for Metro, another for San Diego's light rail, etc. It's insane. Keyser_Soze posted:I'll say it again but the SF/LA train was hosed the moment it didn't ram right down Interstate 5 and through the middle of the Tejon Pass by any means necessary, preferably gunpoint. Nothing brings out my inner authoritarian like transit policy, yeah. It's decentralized decision-making at it's absolute loving worst.
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Feb 5, 2020 21:17
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