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10 years down the line, GM will sell only full-size pickups in the US and only Buicks in China. They'll be more profitable than they ever have in history.
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Feb 18, 2020 16:00
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After GM sold Opel, Holden's days were numbered anyway.
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Feb 18, 2020 16:23
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Thing is they had no excuse for being unprofitable in Oceania and could probably have done okay with a pared down range and not throwing money away on dumb poo poo. It's dumb stuff like spending all of that development effort stuffing the HFV6 into the ZB Commodore - it wasn't a thing that anyone wanted so they sold like 12 in total. Also simultaneously importing the Astra hatch/wagon and the Cruze sedan then slapping Astra badges on both, selling the Captiva at discount prices for like 10 years after it was relevant, not having a fancy/expensive enough ute etc etc
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Feb 18, 2020 18:45
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dissss posted:selling the Captiva at discount prices for like 10 years after it was relevant This isn't necessarily a bad move. If the development costs have been fully paid off, keeping the model around, even at discount prices, is going to pull in a decent profit. That's while we'll see Dodge continue to sell Journeys until Mad Max times.
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Feb 18, 2020 19:05
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:id argue that spending decades plowing money in to unprofitable markets was the peak of stupidity You mean bleeding Opel and Holden dry? Opel made money as soon as GM sold it. After 20 years of so called losses. Think that is a coincidence? Holden had hundreds of millions drained using dubious accounting practices like licensing its own designs from GM. There was nothing actually unprofitable about the market they withdrew from
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Feb 18, 2020 19:38
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:You mean bleeding Opel and Holden dry? Listen here buddy It is IMPOSSIBLE to make money in Australia.
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Feb 18, 2020 21:40
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For what it’s worth, I had a lower mid range Regal liftback as a rental and was very impressed with it.
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Feb 18, 2020 21:48
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PeterWeller posted:This isn't necessarily a bad move. If the development costs have been fully paid off, keeping the model around, even at discount prices, is going to pull in a decent profit. That's while we'll see Dodge continue to sell Journeys until Mad Max times. It contributed to the image of 'Holdens are what you buy when you can't afford anything else' and made it impossible to sell the eventual replacements. The Acadia may (it may not, I don't know not my type of car) be a perfectly competitive vehicle but absolutely no one is going to pay the prices they're asking for them.
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Feb 18, 2020 23:19
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If America ever gets a real administration and CAFE gets fixed, GM and Ford and Chrysler are so hosed
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Feb 18, 2020 23:54
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Wheeee posted:If America ever gets a real administration and the chicken tax gets axed, GM and Ford and Chrysler are so hosed Fixed because why the gently caress can't we get the cool trucks the rest of the world gets
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Feb 19, 2020 02:03
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That's not CAFEs fault though. CAFE is why the poo poo like the Yukon Denali exists.
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Feb 19, 2020 02:43
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stevobob posted:Fixed because why the gently caress can't we get the cool trucks the rest of the world gets Like what? Hilux I guess, which might sell because Toyota, Nissan Navara? Its brother, the Mercedes X-Class? Mitsubishi Triton? The Chinese trucks? Who’s going to buy any of them, especially when domestic full size trucks are a vastly better value proposition why bother? You now get the Ranger and the Colorado, how are those selling?
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Feb 19, 2020 02:54
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BuckyDoneGun posted:Like what? Hilux I guess, which might sell because Toyota, Nissan Navara? Its brother, the Mercedes X-Class? Mitsubishi Triton? The Chinese trucks? Who’s going to buy any of them, especially when domestic full size trucks are a vastly better value proposition why bother? You now get the Ranger and the Colorado, how are those selling? If Toyota brought the 70 series pickup here with that big gently caress-off V8 diesel They would probably sell some. Probably. Do them up G-Wagen style.
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Feb 19, 2020 03:06
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They'd never get that engine to meet US emissions standards - it's bad enough that it's becoming an issue in Australia and they don't give a poo poo about that sort of thing.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:30
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Q_res posted:CAFE is why the poo poo like the Yukon Denali exists. Wait huh?
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Feb 19, 2020 07:01
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I should have phrased that as "why poo poo like the Yukon Denali is allowed to exist". Basically, the MPG requirements for Light Trucks under CAFE are so insanely lovely that they can get away with building those monstrosities. poo poo that would never fly if it had to be classified as a car.
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Feb 19, 2020 07:26
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Q_res posted:I should have phrased that as "why poo poo like the Yukon Denali is allowed to exist". Basically, the MPG requirements for Light Trucks under CAFE are so insanely lovely that they can get away with building those monstrosities. poo poo that would never fly if it had to be classified as a car. I think you grossly overestimate how much a majority of America gives a poo poo what mpg it has
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Feb 19, 2020 07:33
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In no way am I saying Americans give even half a poo poo, nor do I understand how you could possibly think that was what I was saying... But I do think if they had to match standards even close to what cars do they wouldn't be able to sell the things. Not with all the penalties and fines, to say nothing of tacking gas guzzler taxes on the sticker.
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Feb 19, 2020 07:39
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PeterWeller posted:This isn't necessarily a bad move. If the development costs have been fully paid off, keeping the model around, even at discount prices, is going to pull in a decent profit. That's while we'll see Dodge continue to sell Journeys until Mad Max times. I was at a Dodge dealership a couple days ago and I was surprised they had a new Journey in the showroom. I think they were advertising $8k off or something. I thought they'd killed the Journey. It was next to a Ram crew cab that was $70,000. This is America.
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Feb 19, 2020 12:59
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Q_res posted:In no way am I saying Americans give even half a poo poo, nor do I understand how you could possibly think that was what I was saying... ... yeah sassypants, that’s just it, Americans want their Canyoneros and aren’t going to force standards upon >6k GVCW stuff until electrics etc can be sufficiently good replacements for the same sized vehicles. CAFE standards aren’t magic constants of the universe, it takes politicians and appointees and technocrats to vote for them and implement them and enforce them. Hence you being mad about this, Americans giving no shits, and pickups selling better than ever
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Feb 19, 2020 13:24
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There will be another gas crisis eventually. I remember 2005 after Katrina when gas cost $5+ a gallon and used SUVs couldn't be given away for about a year. Don't think it can't happen again.
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Feb 19, 2020 15:08
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we should be gradually ramping up fuel taxes but obviously that will never happen
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Feb 19, 2020 15:25
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Tremek posted:Hence you being mad about this, Americans giving no shits, and pickups selling better than ever I'm mad about this am I? I'm not mad about SUVs, I own one. If you think I was angry because of my previous reply, that wasn't it. Your reply just addressed something I didn't comment on one way or another. Which annoyed the hell out of me. I imagine it's the same reason why you included the unnecessary condescension about how laws work. Literally all I said was that CAFE being insanely lax on light trucks allows that kind of stuff to exist without incurring penalties or gas guzzler tax. There's no anger there, that's just objective fact. Someone (who wasn't me) made a comment on "fixing CAFE" but blamed CAFE for something it didn't actually cause. I merely commented on what CAFE actually caused. As for what Americans want, I never said otherwise, but who gives a poo poo? Americans also didn't want seatbelts, unleaded gas, catalytic converters, airbags or any kind of gas mileage standards at all. Q_res fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 15:59
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I'm on your side in the substance of this discussion but I sure wish I wasn't after that childish poo poo
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Feb 19, 2020 16:02
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You're right, that was unnecessary.
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Feb 19, 2020 16:07
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If there was a significant gas guzzling tax on trucks and SUVs it would weed out the people buying them that don't actually need them at least.
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Feb 19, 2020 17:42
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Let's really get people angry in this thread: Let's tax displacement and horsepower  Nobody needs a 40 ft long truck, nobody needs more than, say, 150~ horsepower and around 3 liters of displacement. Torque is not taxed.
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Feb 19, 2020 17:51
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"Taxes are killing me!" I scream as I spend $3000 a month on my Raptor and wife's Escalade
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Feb 19, 2020 17:54
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With how heavy modern cars are that should probably be more like 250hp.
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Feb 19, 2020 17:54
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Nah, tax weight instead. Weight is what's destroying the infrastructure
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Feb 19, 2020 17:56
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But then we'd have trophy trucks running around, 700HP twin turbo V8s in ultra-lightweight fiberglass bodies and...uh... yeah tax weight
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Feb 19, 2020 18:04
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KakerMix posted:Let's tax displacement and horsepower I too wish for a kei car-filled future  redgubbinz posted:But then we'd have trophy trucks running around, 700HP twin turbo V8s in ultra-lightweight fiberglass bodies and...uh... We'd finally get single seater cars... Olympic Mathlete fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 18:06
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Let people drive what they want but revamp the licensing system to require additional training for larger vehicles. That's the thing that strikes me the most when walking around the auto show. Someone can go and pass their driver's test on a Mitsubishi Mirage and then go right out and buy a F150 XL and jump right on the road with it. We need more vehicle license classes between a standard driver's license and CDL. It would also be impossible to implement since every state has their own driver's license standards and trying to unify them across the country would cause a major backlash.
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Feb 19, 2020 18:32
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Gasoline posted:Nah, tax weight instead. Weight is what's destroying the infrastructure Biased much?  But yeah that sounds better actually.
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Feb 19, 2020 18:50
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Being a kid who grew up in the late 70s/80s, it bothers me that my new compact crossover weighs 4000lbs whereas my 3-year old full-size sedan weighed 3700lbs. Back in the day, 2 tons was heavy. On the other hand it amazes me that the turbo 4 in the crossover makes close to the same power as the V/6 in the sedan and they both get the same fuel mileage. And either engine make 2x the power and 50% better gas mileage than what we had in the 80s.
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Feb 19, 2020 19:10
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One day mainstream cars will be made of materials other than mild steel. The moment the first mass-produced car with a carbon fibre and aluminium frame rolls off the production line it will be a glorious day (and I'll likely be long dead).
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Feb 19, 2020 21:22
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i3 is, right? Or am I imagining that?
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Feb 19, 2020 21:37
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ilkhan posted:i3 is, right? Or am I imagining that? Parts of it is, although its the short strand cheaper stuff. The rest is aluminium. I think BMW has stated that they won't be doing it again for the i3s replacement. Edit: Found it https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/07/17/carbon-fiber-bmw-might-be-a-thing-of-the-past/ Humbug fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 21:42
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Gasoline posted:Nah, tax weight instead. Weight is what's destroying the infrastructure 
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Feb 19, 2020 22:22
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Olympic Mathlete posted:One day mainstream cars will be made of materials other than mild steel. The moment the first mass-produced car with a carbon fibre and aluminium frame rolls off the production line it will be a glorious day (and I'll likely be long dead). most mainstream cars are made of stuff other than mild steel today
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Feb 19, 2020 22:47
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