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Isn't Starmer a member of that definitely-not-a-capitalist-group the Trilateral Commission.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:00
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I think there's a fairly strong argument that in the long term liberals are more dangerous than fascists E: the US democratic establishment melting the gently caress down over sanders is really giving me reasons to be cheerful https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/status/1231789502265516033?s=19 ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 15:00
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ThomasPaine posted:I think there's a fairly strong argument that in the long term liberals are fascists 
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Feb 24, 2020 15:04
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gh0stpinballa posted:https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1231845547763544064?s=19 people in the comments to this seem to be misunderstanding this as calling corbynists stalinists rather than calling lansman et al stalinists not too long ago a lot of the left in the UK were genuine stalinists so its not outside the realm of imagination that the old left side of momentum are a bit staliny, mason has said a bunch of dumb poo poo lately though. imo Kier as the anti-capitalist candidate is one of them. Darth Walrus posted:To be clear, Nandy is not the second-best option. She's dreadful. She is, however, in a distant third place, and so having her as your second round preference reduces Starmer's second-round gains as one of the frontrunners. whats so bad about her? the only thing I've heard is a vague association of her with blue labour but the regulars itt seems to hate her. shes the only one of the 3 candidates who doesnt have a disqualifying facial expression on her face at all times imo (kier apologetic and worried, RLB scolding)
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Feb 24, 2020 15:06
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As I said she literally led the campaign to unseat corbyn in 2016 four days after david cameron resigned as prime minister over brexit. I also... don't think there's anything wrong with RLB's face...
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Feb 24, 2020 15:10
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Communist Thoughts posted:people in the comments to this seem to be misunderstanding this as calling corbynists stalinists rather than calling lansman et al stalinists Literally everything she's said in the leadership election (even disregarding her blue labour/Owen Smith past which she deflects when questioned about and is a part of her campaign) can either charitably be interpreted as the same milquetoast bs as Starmer or uncharitably (which I'm not prone to being to blue labour stooges) as "we must listen to the racist legitimate concerns of the working class". Examples: treat scotland like catalonia, an article in the indy literally saying "we need to stop calling the working class racists for being racists", and giving more power to councillors (why should they have more power than regular members?) who generally tend more right than the membership. Guavanaut posted:It's not about a Nandy win, it's about whether Nandy as #2 makes Keir less likely to beat RLB or not. I'm not putting Starmer 2nd either, so it doesn't matter.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:12
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Communist Thoughts posted:
I'm pretty sure Mason hasn't written anything worth reading in a long time or at all. Maybe the Stoya tweet, that was funny. I remember reading his state of play blog entries on the EU - Greece conflict and would have been vastly better informed if I hadn't.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:13
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WhatEvil posted:Canadian politics post inbound: Separatism in Quebec is not only because they speak French - provinces like PEI and Newfoundland have a decent amount of francophones. There are even some primarily french-speaking towns in Ontario. Quebec's push for independence has always been rooted in how it became part of Canada. It was originally a French colony which came under English control after the Seven Years War. When the British took over they didn't really apply a hard rule to the region, mostly because Quebec was majority Catholic and they didn't want to deal with a religious rebellion. This kinda continued after Confederation, where Quebec just did its own separate, French inspired and Catholic, thing. Traditional Liberal/Conservative party lines fell away in the run-up to WWII, with a regionalist Union Nationale dominating the political landscape. After the war they would be in near constant power, with only one year not in government, from 1945 to 1970, mostly under Duplessis. This provided the foundation for the nationalist movement to build, and with the political demise of UN came the rise of Bloc Quebecois and there referneda on independence. Quebec separatism doesn't seem to be popular at the moment, even though the province only voted by a few thousand votes to remain in 1995. Nearly every party has platitudes towards the notion, but nobody wants to act on it at this moment.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:14
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Pilchenstein posted:Once again, I ask you to specify what you think we should have done differently, other than nebulous poo poo like "don't believe as hard" or "have less faith in ourselves" from a while back but its a fair question, though imo the repeated responses ITT to questioning of RLB/momentum with "you just want us to give up hope?" is getting tiring. though i think actually "don't beleive as hard" translates pretty well to "don't intentionally delude ourselves" which is a thing i agree with. looking back quite a lot of what sunk us was staring us in the face, Old Labour battles over I/P, Corbyn's terrible unpopularity with voters, endless public infighting with nothing to be done about it both with the right and within the left. the issue is we were basically going "oh yeah but that stuff doesn't count for us, since we're gonna do things a different way by bypassing all the media drama with support from the ground" and it turns out that, actually, that stuff does count for us, we can't just willfully ignore the political pressures everyone else has to deal with just because we have good policies and the others are incompetent murderers. i think i've said before itt that the big worry for me is that we spent 5 years going "oh we'll open up the party, oh we'll create a grassroots movement, oh we'll get in some successors" and it seems like we didn't do any of that? But since afaik theres no solid info on how that all went down (if there is please link it, id like to know) its hard to say what to do differently other than it didnt work. and personally, corbyn was a compromise candidate, the few people who recognise me will know my pet issue was john mcdonnel and his right wing economic policies which was an enormously dissapointing step down (remember when pikkety and richard murphy were gonna do the economics? man remembering that actually makes a tear come to my eye). there was also quite a lot of policies and drama coming from Old Labour that are improvements on the tories but not really a modern left wing platform. we gave corbyn huge amounts of slack that we wouldn't give anyone else and it did obscure what was actually happening. As someone posted a page or so back, there is (by design) really not a lot we as voters can do about it and I don't think the actual fault was with us, it was with the leadership, whatever plan they had failed spectacularly. since we can't do much as voters, i'd like it if as posters at least we can talk candidly itt about RLB and the direction of the corbyn left without getting upset if we're too critical. for one its just more fun and interesting to read imo than "just vote RLB, no she's fine, honestly, no she's fine" e: and i suppose the BIG issue for me surrounding RLB is... well if it was the leadership wot hosed it... aren't they the ones running RLB? Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 15:18
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forkboy84 posted:Got accused of being a bot on Facebook so that's very exciting. Badge of pride  I got accused of being a bot on FB.This is because many people are completely and utterly clueless about the privacy settings. Mine are set so that if you're not a 'friend' you can't see any of my friends or posts. My hometown is a town from fiction as are my places of education. Who the heck puts actual real information on facebook? The only thing real on there is my birthday (but not year) because I'm a saddo who gains validation from people typing 'happy birthday' when prompted by FB.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:36
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Badge of pride I thought the 'happy birthday' thing had been reduced to a button. 95% of my facebook posts are on my birthday, saying thanks. Although I think I stopped even doing that a couple of years back.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:42
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forkboy84 posted:Got accused of being a bot on Facebook so that's very exciting. Aye, it's crazy when people assign things to you that aren't true
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Feb 24, 2020 15:42
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Communist Thoughts posted:from a while back but its a fair question, though imo the repeated responses ITT to questioning of RLB/momentum with "you just want us to give up hope?" is getting tiring. though i think actually "don't beleive as hard" translates pretty well to "don't intentionally delude ourselves" which is a thing i agree with. I think the main issue is that people critcising RLB are usually doing it in order to promote the other candidates who are substantially worse than her. RLB isn't perfect, but she's the best we got at the moment and hopefully will come into her own in opposition. Like you said, I don't think there's much we can do as members.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:43
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Though I would suggest that open selections should be appealing for people who are suggesting going entirely outside the party, if you can't use that to do an entryism then you've not got much hope of doing a revolution, IMO.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:47
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"Our" Tom Watson is so mediocre he's not even the worst political/punditry figure called Tom Watson: https://twitter.com/tomwatson/status/1231409387417325569
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Feb 24, 2020 15:50
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If you put RLB as your first choice, they don't look at your second choice unless she's been eliminated. Putting Nandy at #2 does nothing to help RLB
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Feb 24, 2020 15:53
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frankenbeans posted:I thought the 'happy birthday' thing had been reduced to a button. 95% of my facebook posts are on my birthday, saying thanks. Although I think I stopped even doing that a couple of years back. Not on mine! I get a thing saying 'say happy birthday to your friend XXXX' and I type 'happy birthday! etc'. And it appears. Maybe it depends on the app. I use it on an actual laptop browser 99.5% of the time. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 15:55
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Personally I'm excited for the future where you have a button to autogenerate a birthday greeting and another one to automate replying to it. Eventually we can boil down all human communication to pressing a button to tell the algorithm to post for you, and then the next logical step is to remove the need to press the button.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:56
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I hope one day the algorithm can just generate birthdays.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:57
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Miftan posted:I think the main issue is that people critcising RLB are usually doing it in order to promote the other candidates who are substantially worse than her. RLB isn't perfect, but she's the best we got at the moment and hopefully will come into her own in opposition. Like you said, I don't think there's much we can do as members. Yeah agreed I don't think many people itt are critiquing RLB to push other candidates though. I haven't been following the thread that closely but I haven't actually seen anyone endorse anyone but RLB in here.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:14
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Qwertycoatl posted:If you put RLB as your first choice, they don't look at your second choice unless she's been eliminated. Putting Nandy at #2 does nothing to help RLB Yeah this. Stop overthinking it and vote your preference. If you think Starmer would at least be better than Nandy, put him as #2, and vice versa. If you don't care, don't put a second pref. It's a 3-way contest so none of this will come into play at all unless RLB has the lowest first-round total and gets eliminated, which seems unlikely. The problem we face is that Nandy is likely to get the lowest first round total and her voters are likely to break overwhelmingly to Starmer on 2nd prefs.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:17
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OwlFancier posted:Personally I'm excited for the future where you have a button to autogenerate a birthday greeting and another one to automate replying to it. Well we've already done that for the stock market.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:20
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Communist Thoughts posted:Yeah agreed I think a few people were stanning Thornberry before she dropped out, but other than that no.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:21
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gh0stpinballa posted:https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1231845547763544064?s=19 This is perhaps the most deranged thing I've seen. Bravo Paul you loving lunatic. You utter headcase. loving hell.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:24
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Starmer chat: Why did Starmer ruin any environmentalist brownie points he might have had by doing that mailshot when he also sent out an email as did the other candidates? How many trees were destroyed? I put it in the bin anyway! (fakeed: just read another post saying there's been an RLB mailshot. If so, I haven't had it!) Daily Mail - are we the bad guys chat: I do 'sniper commenting' on Daily Mail articles. The last one I did essentially saying 'you lot voted tory because you believed the lies that Corbyn would steal your house and here you are, the Tories are stealing your buy to let income, your pension tax relief' and something else I can't remember. Lots of green arrows - way more than red arrows! Deputy leader chat: I was going to do Butler then Burgon so will probably switch them round now I see Butler's signed up to another one of those dreadful anti-JVL things. Then probably Rayner, Khan. Murray definitely bottom of the pile.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:25
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Keir Starmer is like Blair except he lacks everything that made Blair successful Actually that would make him like Kinnock.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:27
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Starmer chat: Because he (probably correctly) thinks it will gain him more votes from the undecided than it will lose him from the environmentalists,;those of whom would be persuaded against him by getting a letter, I would guess were largely not voting for him anyway.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:33
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Guavanaut posted:I hope one day the algorithm can just generate birthdays. In the future after the world has drowned the flickering remnants of Facebook will be populated by algorithmically generated profiles continuing the eternal war between trolls, bots and memecats. Alien archaeologists will debate on whether this represents the uploaded consciousness of humanity. Edit - This sounds like an Eclipse Phase exoplanet scenario.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:37
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thespaceinvader posted:Because he (probably correctly) thinks it will gain him more votes from the undecided than it will lose him from the environmentalists,;those of whom would be persuaded against him by getting a letter, I would guess were largely not voting for him anyway. Yes, very illustrative of the right in general, doesn't matter what you do to get power, as long as you have it.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:39
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OwlFancier posted:Yes, very illustrative of the right in general, doesn't matter what you do to get power, as long as you have it. I mean it's working out pretty well for the right in general you have to admit.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:41
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Z the IVth posted:In the future after the world has drowned the flickering remnants of Facebook will be populated by algorithmically generated profiles continuing the eternal war between trolls, bots and memecats. However, Ancient Alien theorists - especially the one with the sticking up hair - say 'were the bots actually extraterrestrial and did they work with Werner Von Braun' to bring alien rocket technology to Earth as illustrated by the carvings of alien beings- looking remarkably like memecats - in space suits on ancient Mayan pyramids found on the island of Sardinia which we now believe is home to the mythical country of Atlantis'. Guilty pleasure: watching Ancient Aliens while scoffing a box of chox. Don't kink shame.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:42
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Aramoro posted:I mean it's working out pretty well for the right in general you have to admit. Well yes because to them it's just a game, it doesn't actually matter if they win or lose and they have all the institutional support.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:42
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I liked what whoever said earlier that he has a permanently worried look on his face. I think people used to put it down to his discomfort at having to stand around with Corbyn, but that excuse has gone now and he just still looks really worried.OwlFancier posted:Well yes because to them it's just a game, it doesn't actually matter if they win or lose and they have all the institutional support. I'm surprised you don't think it matters to them if they lose? Are they not getting their heads chopped off when that happens?
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Feb 24, 2020 16:49
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I'm surprised you don't think it matters to them if they lose? Are they not getting their heads chopped off when that happens? Well no that doesn't normally happen when the tories or the liberals lose, they just scuttle off to some other job that posh boys can just walk into and then turn up years later for another go. More's the pity to be sure! But that's the point, the only thing they gain is personal power, they don't actually need politics because they have money and connections.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:52
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I'm surprised you don't think it matters to them if they lose? Are they not getting their heads chopped off when that happens?
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Feb 24, 2020 17:02
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TACD posted:RLB's policy platform sounding more appealing every day if only... NotJustANumber99 posted:I liked what whoever said earlier that he has a permanently worried look on his face. I think people used to put it down to his discomfort at having to stand around with Corbyn, but that excuse has gone now and he just still looks really worried. yeah its weird and its a terrible look for opposing bojo. it looks like hes about to apologise for something thats his fault but he's going to tell you he had to do anyway. for those keeping track, Burgon(?) is definitely winning in the face department, look at the size of the thing, absolute unit! it makes me smile to look at, kinda a rob riggle big face vibe going on. i was trying not to vote for any blokes though to placate my mum who i am beginning to think has a point about the labour party being institutionally sexist and incapable of electing a woman leader e: my centrist dad is definitely gonna sneak kier in there though, even though i recko nandy will be his 1st pref since he seems to just uncritically upload every guardian opinion into his brain Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 17:35
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I've not really watched much of the labour candidates speaking, but I get the impression that none of them are very charismatic. And I think RLB needs to be charismatic to overcome the baggage of being associated with the losing Corbyn leadership, and the advantages Starmer has with his media support. Corbyn wasn't charismatic in the traditional sense, but he had a charm and a genuineness I haven't seen from his potential replacements.
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Feb 24, 2020 17:39
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marktheando posted:I've not really watched much of the labour candidates speaking, but I get the impression that none of them are very charismatic. And I think RLB needs to be charismatic to overcome the baggage of being associated with the losing Corbyn leadership, and the advantages Starmer has with his media support. Should build a time machine to go back to a time when uncharismatic does like Attlee cokld become PM
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Feb 24, 2020 17:41
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I do wonder whether anyone but Kier will be treated like the leader of the party, even if anyone else wins...
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Feb 24, 2020 17:41
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forkboy84 posted:Should build a time machine to go back to a time when uncharismatic does like Attlee cokld become PM He did have the advantage of being able to prove himself first by basically running the country during the war.
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Feb 24, 2020 17:53
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