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This winter is hosed anyway. I live in well known winter hellhole Berlin and we didn't have ice or snow this year. In 2016, the majority of says from Dec to Feb where below 0 the whole day - both max and min temperature, with min sometimes going down to -10 or more. This year, the temperature dropped below zero like two or three times. And the max temperature per day NEVER dropped below zero on any single day. In Berlin. We hosed guys. Haramstufe Rot fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 17:23
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Planet gonna kill us, Cloud.
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Feb 26, 2020 17:47
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sorta crossposting from the insane c-spam coronavirus thread, hope it's not frowned upon but I'm pretty pissed off at our gross incompetence and need to vent Media (and the government, especially at high levels) here in Italy are now going full negationism-mode, because it turns out closing down a bunch of factories + all bars/pubs/stadiums/entertainment venues in the most populous and most industrialized area of the country is Very Bad for the economy, and even a couple days of curfew or forced shutdown is causing capitalists all over to wring their hands so much that they're likely to break them (their health is guaranteed anyway since they can afford the best cures, so why should they be worried, of course the peons must keep on working to ensure they have enough money to actually pay the top doctors and whatnot!) And so, since our politicians are not corrupt, shitheads or incompetents in any way of course, everyone is now saying to stop testing people with no symptoms or only mild symptoms, that it's best to only report cases when they're in the ICU or dead like other nations are doing (both those things, we condemned in other countries literally yesterday), and so on so we can reopen the cities and the factories, God forbid that loving FiatChryslerAutomobiles has to stop production for one day and lose money, or one lovely B&B in Venice has to endure going without clients for a couple weeks What I'm saying is, gently caress all this, pls Corona-chan come and wipe us off the face of the Earth, we're better off this way
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Feb 27, 2020 14:28
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I am popping in to say I am learning Italian because I have friends who live in Italy and the language, culture, and food is quite awesome. Your politics are also insane and I love it.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:33
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TorakFade posted:sorta crossposting from the insane c-spam coronavirus thread, hope it's not frowned upon but I'm pretty pissed off at our gross incompetence and need to vent While I am not rebuffing/denying your "there is nobody sane running the show" claim, the “stop testing unless the patient is clearly infected” has been the praxis for the last few week in China and several others Far East countries(which is why the doomsday results sorta stopped flowing). Blanket testing with a field test kit that is not 100% accurate mean inflated claims, increased workload on an already stressed ER system and overall panic. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Feb 27, 2020 |
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Feb 27, 2020 17:37
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SlowBloke posted:While I am not rebuffing/denying your "there is nobody sane running the show" claim, the “stop testing unless the patient is clearly infected” has been the praxis for the last few week in China and several others Far East countries(which is why the doomsday results sorta stopped flowing). Blanket testing with a field test kit that is not 100% accurate mean inflated claims, increased workload on an already stressed ER system and overall panic. Oh I would agree if they just admitted that the cat is out of the bag now and we have zero chance to actually stop this from rampaging around until it passes naturally as every disease eventually does (and I am not saying we will all die, this will be "just a more virulent flu", but the flu is already pretty bad and we should try to stop it as much as possible nevermind pile a second flu on top), and actually increase hospital capacity and whatnot. Let's not forget that if our hospital system is stressed, it's because politics have cut funds year after year after year, both left and right But they will just use this as an excuse to say "everything is fine now" and we both know it  I already had friends tell me "see, in China it is finishing now, it has peaked and we're totally safe now" when it's just as you say a different way of testing... TorakFade fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Feb 27, 2020 |
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Feb 27, 2020 18:56
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Haramstufe Rot posted:This winter is hosed anyway. I live in well known winter hellhole Berlin and we didn't have ice or snow this year. I remember 2016, it went down to -12 for a few days, and every winter since then I've been expecting it, but it never comes. People are definitely talking about how weird it is
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Feb 27, 2020 22:57
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TorakFade posted:and actually increase hospital capacity and whatnot. Let's not forget that if our hospital system is stressed, it's because politics have cut funds year after year after year, both left and right Having worked in medical IT, I can say that funding is there, mismanaged yes but not so that basic(and a lot of vanity) necessities are not being fulfilled(I admit that this is mostly dependant on how corrupt the management is). A big issue is that there is no room to expand hospitals as urban crawl has reached the hospital grounds in a lot of cities and you cannot just bolt on a floor on the buildings(double so if the hospital building falls into the "belle arti" purview, so you need to keep the exterior exactly the same while destroying the innards, making a simple renovation cost a gently caress load more). There is a lot of young and old people that are currently going to the ER for dumb poo poo(february is esp. vile as there are a lot of heavy hangovers that get sent to er while a bucket of cold water could have sufficed) so capacity is compromised anyway, esp now where just a sneeze or a cough is deemed as black plague in their media-distorted minds. In order to not triage all patients you would need hospitals as big as the city you need coverage for. The big issue that i'm not seeing properly address is that nursing homes(or other medical sites where only/mostly old people are handled) are still taking in family guests and are not being properly "shielded" from possible carriers. I would have personally took a firmer stance there, patients morale be damned
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Feb 28, 2020 09:10
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SlowBloke posted:Having worked in medical IT, I can say that funding is there, mismanaged yes but not so that basic(and a lot of vanity) necessities are not being fulfilled(I admit that this is mostly dependant on how corrupt the management is). Someone literally stole all masks and protective clothing from our city's hospital a couple days ago... and I have a sneaking suspicion that it was an inside job  guess I'm used to living in the Centre-South, I bet things are more orderly in the North, but I have exactly 0 faith in our local administrators of all levels and kinds, sadly  quote:A big issue is that there is no room to expand hospitals as urban crawl has reached the hospital grounds in a lot of cities and you cannot just bolt on a floor on the buildings(double so if the hospital building falls into the "belle arti" purview, so you need to keep the exterior exactly the same while destroying the innards, making a simple renovation cost a gently caress load more). Nice info here, never knew that - but last I heard over the course of the past 5 years or so they were actively shutting down (or planning to do so) small hospitals which makes sense in a context of "we're building bigger ones to optimize costs", but then if you say there's no room for expanding current ones and renovating them is difficult/too expensive, I really don't understand why they should close small local hospitals (or make them private so, only for those that can pay...) BEFORE opening the new, bigger, better ones nearby. We also have to consider that our geographical situation doesn't allow for centralization, except maybe in big flat areas like the Pianura Padana, but you can't literally shut down every small hospital since there's a whole lot of people in the hilly/mountainous areas that live in small remote villages and can't just go without sanitary assistance or take a car and drive 100km to a big city hospital in case of emergency... see https://www.repubblica.it/solidarieta/cibo-e-ambiente/2014/02/24/news/ospedali_ce_ne_sono_175_destinati_alla_chiusura-79553183/ or http://www.milanotoday.it/video/chiusura-ospedali-san-carlo-san-paolo.html or https://www.ilmessaggero.it/marche/sanit_la_riforma_va_avanti_monta_la_protesta-1478108.html or https://www.larucola.org/2019/06/17/il-giochetto-della-chiusura-degli-ospedali-pubblici-nelle-marche/ TorakFade fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Feb 28, 2020 |
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Feb 28, 2020 12:39
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TorakFade posted:Nice info here, never knew that - but last I heard over the course of the past 5 years or so they were actively shutting down (or planning to do so) small hospitals which makes sense in a context of "we're building bigger ones to optimize costs", but then if you say there's no room for expanding current ones and renovating them is difficult/too expensive, I really don't understand why they should close small local hospitals (or make them private so, only for those that can pay...) BEFORE opening the new, bigger, better ones nearby. The main issue in Italian healthcare is that site management is done at county/region level so there is no centralized management or planning. If the provincia of Bergamo decided that a tiny medical building was to be redone, there is no notification of intent to Rome and then there is no way to correct those mismanagement issue unless the cogs of bureaucracy starts moving(and then there is no way to stop or change direction). Making every region free to do whatever the gently caress they want has been a big mistake IMHO. The “no small hospital” plan has some pros (less admin overhead) but the biggest con(logistics in sparsely populated areas) is not easily solvable as the biggest killer is time to deliver patients by roads(cannot use helicopters in cities) in resuscitation-doable times. The best solution(which most local admins suggested multiple times) is having general healthcare/ER in small geographically distributed medical centers and specialized care in big centralized hospitals. You break your leg, the bone is in the open and you are bleeding to death, you get life-saving treatment in the nearby small er site and then if you need non-life threatening surgery to put the pieces back together you get moved to the bigger hospitals. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Feb 28, 2020 |
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Feb 28, 2020 15:43
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SlowBloke posted:Making every region free to do whatever the gently caress they want has been a big mistake IMHO. What? Having the bad parts of federalism but adopting none of the good parts is a mistake? Preposterous, I say!  SlowBloke posted:The “no small hospital” plan has some pros (less admin overhead) but the biggest con(logistics in sparsely populated areas) is not easily solvable as the biggest killer is time to deliver patients by roads(cannot use helicopters in cities) in resuscitation-doable times. This would be smart and effective, and probably stop the big wigs in Roma/Milano from siphoning off a huge part of the money leaving them with only a small slice of the pie just like the less-corrupt local administrators, so totally unacceptable
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Feb 28, 2020 16:19
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TorakFade posted:Someone literally stole all masks and protective clothing from our city's hospital a couple days ago... ...that feels like it should be bigger news during a pandemic.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:22
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Kill the regions, give their powers to provinces, send Monti into the sun!
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Feb 28, 2020 16:43
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Tesseraction posted:...that feels like it should be bigger news during a pandemic. Consumables magically vanishing is sorta the norm in the public sector, it wouldn’t even make page four in the news
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Feb 28, 2020 16:50
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Tesseraction posted:...that feels like it should be bigger news during a pandemic. SlowBloke posted:Consumables magically vanishing is sorta the norm in the public sector, it wouldn't even make page four in the news Yep, there you go. It made the news but barely: https://www.quotidianosanita.it/scienza-e-farmaci/articolo.php?articolo_id=81736 , and I bet whoever stole that stuff is currently selling it out the back of his/her car for 50x normal store price limaCAT posted:Kill the regions, give their powers to provinces, send Monti into the sun! Oh yes I'd be down with that. Actually, move it all even lower down the ladder, to the comuni. If the mayor makes a big enough mess, everyone knows who and where he is and can go "peacefully protest" right in his face until he fixes it, so it would be a GREAT incentive to good governance. It's easy to just wave your fist at some important guy in Rome but nothing will ever come from it, while if you wave your fist underneath the nose of a mayor (that can't just say "but the Province/Region/main government forced me to do it!"), things change real quick 
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Feb 28, 2020 17:03
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limaCAT posted:Kill the regions, give their powers to provinces, send Monti into the sun! We weren't even able to kill most city-sized provinces, I don't think we would be able to remove regions. Truth be told the old hierarchy (State->Region->Provinces->Cities) did mostly work fine as there was a clear chain of command in effect, letting everyone dictate policy hosed everything up. EDIT: To be more precise, i meant the old regime of State decides, region breaks it into actionable items, provinces deploy the item and city executes. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Feb 28, 2020 |
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Feb 28, 2020 17:35
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Also there are limits to the subsidiarity principle in regional governance, compounded by regional inequalities and overall uneven resource distribution. Health care is where those limits show more starkly, as exemplified by Southern regions shutting down hospital after hospital, and having their health care budget still mired in debts due to residents seeking treatment in the North. That poo poo is paid by the resident's original regional health service. The long and short of it is that we desperately need to go back to central state admin planning and investing into our NHS, and we need financial transfers to even out the inequalities or we'll get a loving tragedy if an actually dangerous epidemic rolls around.
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Feb 28, 2020 19:20
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First confirmed case in my town, multiple in the region. Thanks to that useless stooge of a prime minister, schools are reopening tomorrow so the cases will skyrocket.
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Mar 1, 2020 13:10
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SlowBloke posted:First confirmed case in my town, multiple in the region. Thanks to that useless stooge of a prime minister, schools are reopening tomorrow so the cases will skyrocket. Well it's spreading, 5 positives now in Abruzzo and I expect more by tomorrow. This will be a mess. I'm going to keep working from home I guess E: 18 people caught by police and reported for violating the quarantine in Lodi, either leaving to go to shops, or entering to visit relatives. 
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Mar 1, 2020 14:24
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TorakFade posted:E: 18 people caught by police and reported for violating the quarantine in Lodi, either leaving to go to shops, or entering to visit relatives. Dobbiamo sempre farci riconoscere
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Mar 1, 2020 15:27
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TorakFade posted:his will be a mess. I'm going to keep working from home I guess My public job has limited the work-from-home options to only people with kids in school age to help with handling closed off classes, so the schools reopening will mean that the people currently smart working will have to return to work(i doubt it lol). A questo punto penso di iniziare a fare il tifo per il coronavirus, così almeno i conti dell'INPS si riparano un pò.... SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 1, 2020 |
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Mar 1, 2020 17:53
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https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/20...ensiva/5721636/ Lol, that's about +500 cases and +12 deaths in one day. My parents are the kind of people that are at risk (existing conditions, age >60) and they seem to think it's nothing serious, so I'm pretty sure they won't take many precautions if at all. Here's hoping they just don't make contact with anyone sick. siamo fottuti, a prescindere da quanta gente muore, qui l'economia va a finire nel cesso... ok non pagheremo più le pensioni ma senza turisti e col nord bloccato la vedo brutta
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Mar 1, 2020 19:22
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Hmm the president blof FVG got cold feet and closed all schools again(for a week), wonder if it will last Una volta che pure i crucchi restano infetti vedi come si attiveranno con misure di emergenza eurozona, fintanto che era una cosa solo per i "terroni" nisba ma ora che ci sono abbastanza pazienti infetti dai tedeschi si inventeranno di tutto per mettere una pezza all'euro e non rovinare le loro casse Edit: nobody posted it yet https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/ this data comes from the NHS so it’s the best possible dataset SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 2, 2020 07:19
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https://twitter.com/business/status/1236272080913563654 let's hope corona cleans out the government/parliament/everything and we can start fresh with some new faces because, gently caress them all from Potere al Popolo to Casapound and everything in between btw for anyone out of the loop, things are pretty serious right now - 28 year old prison guard from Vicenza is in an induced coma right now due to coronavirus, so long for "only the old and infirm will get really sick and die" TorakFade fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 14:51
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TorakFade posted:https://twitter.com/business/status/1236272080913563654 See, INPS will cheer for coronavirus after all What most journos love to omit is that most coronavirus deaths are not directly due to the virus but rather covid bulldozing immune systems and letting other mean poo poo come in and do the honors. If you are immunedeficent (or have busted up lungs) being 20 or 80 is not the deciding factor in surviving COVID19. Mi sono fatto qualche giorno di malattia per sport dopo essere stato in conclave con un genio del male che è stato in una zona infetta, dopo essermi tirato giù antistaminici come fossero pez mo sto a posto ma ai primi momenti cago forte SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 15:05
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SlowBloke posted:See, INPS will cheer for coronavirus after all I'm 36 and been a smoker for more than half my life (I quit a couple years ago but I still smoke a blunt every now and then, sometimes even one/day when I'm lucky) so I'm kinda worried. People are still running up and down the country and going to parties and whatnot, now mayors and region governors are telling people to loving stop that because the situation is serious. At least the reanimators/anesthesiologists are saying that we should prioritize saving the young and those with more chances of survival / living longer : https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/20...matori/5729020/ Also, excuse this badly google translated article: quote:15.40 - De Luca (governor of Campania region): "The problem is serious, don't make social life" most will not listen, and the situation in 2 weeks will be atrocious, I promise you e che cazzo, ma state a casa deficienti, fossero tutti nerd come me non si infetterebbe nessuno TorakFade fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 17:50
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TorakFade posted:
da buon nerd starei a casa volentieri pure io, vediamo se la prox settimana riesco a convincere l’ufficio personale a darmi lo smart work
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Mar 7, 2020 19:52
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guys GUYS they want to stop the football league in Italy https://twitter.com/17tommasi/status/1236388469011812355 WE ARE DOOMED it's the end of the world as we know it
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Mar 7, 2020 23:52
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TorakFade posted:guys The article is kinda self explanatory, no sport activities unless it’s on closed grounds. Major leagues will proceed on a closed door basis so you can only watch it on sky/dazn.
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Mar 8, 2020 08:52
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Until a player gets the flu, then a whole team gets it and then the season is canceled because well, what are you gonna do, a battle royale with the last uninfected team winning the championship?
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Mar 8, 2020 09:12
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Tafferling posted:Until a player gets the flu, then a whole team gets it and then the season is canceled because well, what are you gonna do, a battle royale with the last uninfected team winning the championship? Soccer teams have medical staff that is pretty much the best on the market, it's very uncommon for a player to go train if it has even a smidge of fever. It's more likely that ancilliary staff is going down(referees, trainers, etc) before players.
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Mar 8, 2020 09:44
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Tafferling posted:Until a player gets the flu, then a whole team gets it and then the season is canceled because well, what are you gonna do, a battle royale with the last uninfected team winning the championship? Oooooh I would definitely watch that.
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Mar 8, 2020 10:33
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Intentionally get a player infected and send them out to cough on your opponents star players. Football is war, after all.
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Mar 9, 2020 11:30
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This explains all those talent scouts in hazmat suits roaming the quarantine wards looking for particularly sweaty young men
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Mar 9, 2020 11:55
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https://twitter.com/Terrence_STR/status/1236991816878129152?s=20 Friend of mine is a recently graduated doctor and got his first job as prison medic here in our town, started a few months ago. RIP him. (No setting things on fire or escaping like a bad game of Prison Architect yet, but he sent me an audio of inmates banging stuff on beds and bars making an infernal noise. Things are NOT looking good) also, this is of course in italian but I feel like I need to share it: young people ignoring government restrictions and pleas to not associate because, and I quote, "no matter what anyone says, even the government, I'm not going to lock myself in the home at 25 years old!! *giggles* " or "it's just the flu, they call it Coronavirus but it's just the flu" or "when I will see people with no underlying conditions between 20 and 30 y.o. die I will start worrying" + various other demented reasons for going out and acting like literally nothing is happening loving retarded people. I swear we deserve the upcoming cleansing https://twitter.com/MilkoSichinolfi/status/1237004580132655105 TorakFade fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Mar 9, 2020 |
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Mar 9, 2020 17:11
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"It's just the flu, bro" seems to be the universal standard for teenagers that will just get a bad hangover from covid19 while infecting and possibly killing their parentsCol fischio che quella feccia non vive alle spalle di mamma e papà
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Mar 9, 2020 17:25
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are those Lodi numbers just because they have a centre for infections at the hospital or is it quite endemic in the town? (my aunt and two cousins live there...)
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Mar 9, 2020 20:56
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archaeo posted:are those Lodi numbers just because they have a centre for infections at the hospital or is it quite endemic in the town? (my aunt and two cousins live there...) Sorry to say, I don't mean to scare you but that entire area is at very high risk right now  hopefully they already know but tell them to please don't move from home if possible and avoid all unnecessary social contact, despite budget cuts and everything our healthcare is good (especially in the north, so fleeing south wouldn't be a smart move at all) and unlike in the ol' USofA the government is organizing a good response and helping the population; if they need anything there's volunteers / supermarkets / government people that could get groceries, medicines, testing or whatever is needed delivered to their place if they deem that it's unsafe for them to move. If they feel sick or need info, there's numbers to call (1500 for general info or 112 for emergencies or their GP doctor directly) without needing to go to the doctor or a hospital, they might be swamped at the moment but I hear people are really doing their best to make everything work. TorakFade fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Mar 9, 2020 |
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Mar 9, 2020 21:15
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Daily reminder, if you need real data and not random news fluff these are the two best accurate charts you can check(both updated on weekdays at 1800 CET) Sole24ore: https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/ Protezione civile http://opendatadpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/b0c68bce2cce478eaac82fe38d4138b1 The sole24 page provides data split by city(but less cities when on mobile), the protezione civile shows regions by default but you can toggle to city. Both will provide death counts at the region level, I would guess for privacy reasons. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Mar 9, 2020 |
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Mar 9, 2020 21:31
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Lol, Conte just said that the entire territory of Italy is "red zone", no leaving home unless it's for work, health or actual real necessity (eg. you have no food in the house) too little too late, with people still going to work this won't stop that's much better for me because I will be without a job if the entire national production stops but I'm afraid that many people will die because of it
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Mar 9, 2020 21:50
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