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Razzled posted:i think you need to make up your mind, i have no opinions on the engine whatevers but like... you ding the big supermotos for weighing more than a race sumo (even though their p/w ratio is pretty good) and then your example of a reasonable bike is a... monster? No, it's my example of a bike where the extra bullshit is actually worth it.
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Feb 28, 2020 00:23
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OMGVBFLOL posted:i want a motorcycle but im poor Just go full electric at that point since the filth hasn't yet caught up with technology and you can put some bonkers powerful electric motors on them that are unlikely to attract attention like a noisy petrol motor will.
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Feb 28, 2020 00:35
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OMGVBFLOL posted:i want a motorcycle but im poor Get a busa
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Feb 28, 2020 00:35
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OMGVBFLOL posted:i want a motorcycle but im poor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4AiZyN88l0 If you want still be able to
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Feb 28, 2020 00:36
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:DR650 SM This is the only one true answer. 
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Feb 28, 2020 00:41
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Coydog posted:This is the only one true answer. Just to reiterate, what's in this picture is 95% of the riding experience you'll get from any motard but with an ownership experience akin to a gn250. Power, bling suspension etc are just dressing; the key ingredients are lightness, enduro geometry and big fat 17" tyres.
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Feb 28, 2020 00:49
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BabelFish posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4AiZyN88l0 the story on these kinds of things seems to be as long as you have a helmet, don't cause an accident they have to respond to, and are white, cops are unlikely to give a poo poo. stories abound of conversions being ridden with or without plates, with or without M1s, with cops not giving them a second look. also if i had the money for an ebike kit i'd be getting a real motorcycle
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Feb 28, 2020 00:50
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Mopeds briefly spiked in price after that one RCR video came out, but they really can be had in a more or less functional state for basically peanuts, and will probably work better than mystery chinese engines made out of zinc or whatever the gently caress attached to a bicycle with brakes that are definitely inadequate. 500 bux gets you a running Honda from the Reagan administration. 200 gets you a freely rotating non-running engine. (At least them's Baltimore prices)
DearSirXNORMadam fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Feb 28, 2020 |
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Feb 28, 2020 03:02
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There are typically a bunch of DR650s on craigslist around here in the spring and I've thought about picking one up, but then my brain goes "gently caress CARBS". Used '12 or newer WR450s apparently don't exist, much less '16 and up bikes, just a shitload of thrashed YZs. I think most of the folks buying enduros around here just go straight to KTM.
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Feb 28, 2020 03:39
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Jazzzzz posted:There are typically a bunch of DR650s on craigslist around here in the spring and I've thought about picking one up, but then my brain goes "gently caress CARBS". Used '12 or newer WR450s apparently don't exist, much less '16 and up bikes, just a shitload of thrashed YZs. I think most of the folks buying enduros around here just go straight to KTM. carbs rock. The problem with carburetors is idiot owners that change more than one variable without documenting the change they made, or how it ran before or after. New Orange is the Audi of motorcycles. That's why.
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Feb 28, 2020 03:42
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Yeah carbs rule, especially on big singles because when properly set up they have the absolute creamiest, smoothest first-touch that efi is only barely able to approach today.
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Feb 28, 2020 03:49
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I don't dispute that the analog throttle response is better than EFI, but I'll take a slightly twitchy throttle and reliability over clogged jets/rebuilds/fueling changing with the weather or elevation all day, every day. I haven't ever been a fan of the make change/reassemble/ride/disassemble and undo or slightly increase previous change/reassemble/ride bike routine with carb tuning. Not as big a deal on a single but it's still a hassle.
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Feb 28, 2020 04:17
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Do not fear the carbs. Embrace them. For they own.
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Feb 28, 2020 04:18
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Jazzzzz posted:I don't dispute that the analog throttle response is better than EFI, but I'll take a slightly twitchy throttle and reliability over clogged jets/rebuilds/fueling changing with the weather or elevation all day, every day. I haven't ever been a fan of the make change/reassemble/ride/disassemble and undo or slightly increase previous change/reassemble/ride bike routine with carb tuning. Not as big a deal on a single but it's still a hassle. You must've had some bad experiences, you almost never have to do this unless you're modifying stuff or a PO has been extraordinarily dumb. 95% of the carb problems I encounter are clogging/leaking, usually from neglect, or incorrect pilot screw settings caused by morons. I've only had to manually jet stuff a couple of times and it's always been modified bikes. I've only seen blatantly wrong jets/cut up slides like four times and in all cases I just looked in the manual, got jets to match and it fixed everything. Oh and that one aftermarket r6 kit that comes with the wrong loving needles, that hosed me up for weeks I'll admit.
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Feb 28, 2020 04:29
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Slavvy posted:You must've had some bad experiences, you almost never have to do this unless you're modifying stuff or a PO has been extraordinarily dumb. 95% of the carb problems I encounter are clogging/leaking, usually from neglect, or incorrect pilot screw settings caused by morons. I've only had to manually jet stuff a couple of times and it's always been modified bikes. I've only seen blatantly wrong jets/cut up slides like four times and in all cases I just looked in the manual, got jets to match and it fixed everything. same. set it up, forget it exists. ride the loving bike. If the engine/airbox/exhaust hasn't been hosed with, ez-pz. otherwise baseline it and make a logbook. Also idiots that throw pods filters on, drill slides, that kinda bullshit are also what give carbs a bad rep.
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Feb 28, 2020 04:36
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What is it with drilling loving slides what do they hope to achieve?? I rode a vmax not that long ago with borderline straight pipes, pods, vboost delete and an aftermarket jet kit that came with instructions to drill the slides. It was one of the scariest bikes I've ridden, nothing would happen for the first half throttle and low revs, then a sudden terrifying two-stroke-like hit when all 1300cc start pumping.
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Feb 28, 2020 04:40
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Slavvy posted:You must've had some bad experiences, you almost never have to do this unless you're modifying stuff or a PO has been extraordinarily dumb. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. First bike I ever owned was a GS500 that the PO had completely hosed the with the carbs/airbox/exhaust and then let it sit in a storage unit for a few years with unstabilized gas congealing in everything. I spent the better part of a month sweating my balls off and being eaten alive by mosquitos in a garage with no power trying to unfuck things. I finally just bought a separate set of carbs and airbox off of eBay. This was my first experience with working on either bikes or carbs and I came to hate carbs with a passion. Cleaning and lining the gas tank w/ POR-15, rebuilding calipers, flushing and bleeding brakes, shimming valves, etc. - no problem. Stuck floats puking fuel, clogged pilot jets, dropping a goddamned clip in the dark when you're just trying to move it up one notch on the needle and wrap things up for the night? Never again.
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Feb 28, 2020 05:06
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Goondolences. That is very similar to my first bike experience, a gsxr250 i4 with twin double-barrel carbs, an enthusiastic PO, and a spark plug thread that just wanted to be free. Nowadays I just say no to stuff like that, it isn't worth it most of the time. Plus it means that when I get a personal basket case, it becomes satisfying to eventually get it running nicely. But most carbed bikes spend their lives running fine being babied around, with a clogged air filter or stale petrol often the worst offense.
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Feb 28, 2020 06:35
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My carb experiences are the same. The only problems I’ve ever had have been from neglect, PO fuckery, or both together. Once they’re set up appropriately for the intake and exhaust (not just stage 3 because power), they’ve been completely ignorable. Related, the stock CV carb on my DR650 supermoto is mostly set up right (as far as I can tell) and it does everything I need it to right when I need it to, no more, no less.
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Feb 28, 2020 06:54
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Slavvy posted:Just to reiterate, what's in this picture is 95% of the riding experience you'll get from any motard but with an ownership experience akin to a gn250. Power, bling suspension etc are just dressing; the key ingredients are lightness, enduro geometry and big fat 17" tyres. Well I suppose I can always just go on trademe for DR's and sumo wheels 
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Feb 28, 2020 07:18
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Jazzzzz posted:Cleaning and lining the gas tank w/ POR-15 I did this once and it also nearly killed me. The worst part was getting the old liner out, which had failed and clogged my newly cleaned and rebuilt carbs and destroyed the filter. Never again. I will send out a tank to be repaired if I have to. The most any hack with limited carb tuning knowledge and patience but the ability to clean and rebuild (ME) should ever do is jet up one size and shim the needle, the way it should have came from the factory.
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Feb 28, 2020 13:45
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Here is the Jim silly balls recipe for trouble free carb ownership: 1) When you get the bike take the time to clean the carbs properly. Do not ever unrack the carbs from each other unless you have a very specific need to do so. This is a cardinal sin. If you have unracked the carbs sell the bike and start over. Reset the mixture screws to the factory settings or 1.5 turns from the stops. May want to reset jetting to factory at this point as well, sometimes depending on if it has a factory or aftermarket exhaust. Consult the internet for proper aftermarket exhaust jetting specs. Inspect the slides for fuckery like drilling. Look to see if the needles are excessively shimmed. 2) Bench balance them to make sure they aren’t horrifically out of whack 3) Everything that happens before the carbs? Return it to stock. This means get an airbox if it has pods or if the PO drilled holes in the airbox. Sometimes you can cover up PO airbox holes without getting a new one. Get the OEM filter if it has a K&N. Put the OEM snorkel back on if it got deleted. Unless you have very specific performance goals in mind, the factory airbox is best by a wide margin. The factory airbox also supports the carbs and keeps them from shaking the fuel in the bowl to hell and back, which makes the main jet suck air. Also inspect the boots that go beteeen the carbs and the engine. If they are cracked or otherwise allowing air in from the outside, replace them. You can’t jet around an air leak. 4) put a drat inline fuel filter on. Nothing is worse than meticulously cleaning carbs and watching a slug of poo poo leave the tank and clog your previously pristine pilot jets. The filters cost literally pennies. Buy a ton of them and keep swapping until your gas is clean. This is much better than re-cleaning carbs. 4) once you’re back to a known good profile, tune from there. Account for things like aftermarket exhausts and whatnot. 5) ride it. For storage, use stabil and DONT DRAIN THE CARBS. stabilized fuel is much better than open air for carb internals. They oxidize in air and you’ll find yourself with clogged jets after you take it out of storage. 6) when you bring it out of storage just ride it. That first tank of clean gas will make a difference and it will be fine. This is how I handle all of my carbureted bikes and they always start right up even after winter, and I never need to re-clean the carbs. I’ve had bikes sit for more than a year without being used (sorry RV90 after my commute became mostly highway  )and fire right back up.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:04
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Here is the finger prince recipe for trouble free fuel injection ownership: Ride it. Change the fuel filter something like on schedule.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:18
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Imagine limiting yourself to a small subset of bikes because you’re afraid of venturis and screwdrivers. Imagine it 
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Feb 28, 2020 15:32
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I've had so many problems with clogged carburetors that my policy is just not to buy any. Life is so much better, easier and trouble free now.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:44
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Imagine limiting yourself to a small subset of bikes because you’re afraid of venturis and screwdrivers. I don't have to imagine it, brah.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:47
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Nitrox posted:I've had so many problems with clogged carburetors that my policy is just not to buy any. Life is so much better, easier and trouble free now. same. efi rules and having different maps available at the press of a button is fantastic and i will never miss monkeying with carbs
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Feb 28, 2020 16:08
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If carbs were that big of an issue, they wouldn't be used in like every motor forever (even in new bikes today). PO is, and will always be, the issue. Plus a huge number of awesome bikes have carbs and you don't want to miss out on those.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:25
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Coydog posted:Plus a huge number of awesome bikes have carbs and you don't want to miss out on those. shhhh more for us I bought a wr250r that sat in storage for 2 years, it started with a jumpstart on the fuel that was in it. It didn't run good by any means, but it ran. That's the one and only holy poo poo moment with EFI. No carb has ever done this for me unless it was stored properly, of which haha never. Outside of stupid poo poo like non ethanol compliant soft parts I don't typically have all that many issues with carbs. To the point that some local buddies and their buddies bring their neglected carb'd bikes over for help. Also n of carbs and cylinders should be factored in. a thumper is way easier to deal with than 4 or 6 cylinders. Especially if the airbox/exhaust/engine has been hosed with. the drz that was built 5yr ago with its 470cc lump of poo poo was easy as gently caress to get running. Started with a cvk40 klr carb that was laying on the bench and then later a fcr39 when it was done being rebuilt. had 99 problems with that bike but the carb wasn't one. right arm posted:same. efi rules and having different maps available at the press of a button is fantastic and i will never miss monkeying with carbs
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Feb 28, 2020 16:44
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cursedshitbox posted:Can you remap the 1290s or are those locked out? the old 990s could be hosed with on tuneecu to a degree. They're still binary as gently caress in power delivery. they're pretty locked up currently. I'm sure someone will get around to cracking the ECU eventually, but there are three significantly different throttle maps stock on the 1290s that you can tie to different ABS / traction control modes as well which is fun unfortunately they took away the bad fuel map for all the 1x90 bikes which is a shame. that dongle will still give you the ability to keep the ABS / TC off after power cycles though which rules iirc the 790 has even more granular control, but I didn't gently caress around with it too terribly much on my test ride
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Feb 28, 2020 17:10
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Reminder that you can buy jets for a few dollars and get the same effect as a $300 power commander. This is the reason my SV is still on its stock tune and every carbed bike I own is dialed in as gently caress. Also reminder that FI hasn’t solved the biggest carb problem, namely the EPA or your countries equivalent making bikes come with garbage tunes from the factory (see every Yamaha ever).
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Feb 28, 2020 17:21
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right arm posted:they're pretty locked up currently. there's the clutch Jim Silly-Balls posted:
Because of this. thanks for that unfixable massive lean spot around 3-4000rpm, guys. sure I could rip out the pcm, mail it off, or throw it on my workbench and poke at it with the various tools at my disposal to find a solution that'll make it run right. Eh, a jet is too easy. I can rejet the 950 in about 5 minutes, which is about the same time it takes to get the laptop out, tools setup and ready to edit. That said I'm watching the work of these guys: https://www.nanoefi.com/ Sucks about the delete of the bad fuel abilities too heh. There's a few places in the southwest that'll sell ya raunchy pissgas.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:40
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Don’t get me wrong, I love FI and I’m not about to do a carb swap on my SV, but people’s fear of them and their flat out incorrect belief that carbs are somehow inferior is baffling
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Feb 28, 2020 17:54
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Carbs are a lifestyle choice and using the kitchen counter, or the dirty damp cold floor of an underground parking garage to deal with them is not compatible with mine.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:57
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That’s a housing issue, which is a lifestyle choice, not a carb issue
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Feb 28, 2020 17:58
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carbs are better than efi because they're analog devices. the tone is much richer and more melodious
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Feb 28, 2020 18:02
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Sagebrush posted:carbs are better than efi because they're analog devices. the tune is much richer and more odorous
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Feb 28, 2020 18:06
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To me it's also a time issue. I have a C10 Concourse for sale in the other thread, when I bought it, it has been sitting for over a year and carburetors needed attention. It was cheaper to pay $56 an hour to a dealer so they could make it work, then for me to gently caress with it in a cold garage. I used to love wrenching. Now I prefer to ride. It's either or, and my free time is finite.
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Feb 28, 2020 18:13
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Sagebrush posted:carbs are better than efi because they're analog devices. the tone is much richer and more melodious The slidefeel
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Feb 28, 2020 18:14
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Coydog posted:Plus a huge number of awesome bikes have carbs and you don't want to miss out on those. This is how I feel about ABS too, it's great to have and has no real drawbacks but I can't understand never getting a bike without it, it's like admitting defeat before you've even had a go. Hey look I could get a screaming deal on this rc30 but CARBS AND NO ABS *buys an nc700 instead*. Jim Silly-Balls posted:Reminder that you can buy jets for a few dollars and get the same effect as a $300 power commander. This is the reason my SV is still on its stock tune and every carbed bike I own is dialed in as gently caress. My B12 is on a custom MS setup and is by far the worst running, most miserably tuned, most frustrating bike I've ever owned. It's been like four years and I still haven't got it running better than a stock one, and not for lack of trying. And even when I get it all done, it still won't have that butter smooth first touch of the throttle I want. Efi only seems easy and simple because large rooms filled with bearded men have already done 99% of the painful stuff for you and you get to be a dumb consumer plugging things in at the end. If you never ever want to work on your poo poo, fine carry on. But when you have to do poo poo from first principles, you grasp the sheer number of variables and bullshit minutae that don't exist with carbs because they're taken care of by venturi magic. If I ever make a fully custom bike it'll have a small MS system for the spark, carb for the fuel.
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Feb 28, 2020 18:28
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