Million Ghosts posted:i haven't watched Victory or X, but see them all the time being blown off as "lesser" shows. never trust the internet, cause they all said G-Reco was unwatchable garbage and it kicked rear end. Never forget that SEED and 00 (and to a lesser extent: Wing) are basically some of the most popular gundam series, IIRC, and a lot of people really don't like Turn-A's mech design so it's safe to say gundam fan tastes can be pretty questionable at times.
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Mar 2, 2020 06:51
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chiasaur11 posted:I'm sorry, but the scene explaining what Kuntala were really cut down on my ability to sympathize with that argument. They were not surprised
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Mar 2, 2020 07:40
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Victory is the definition of a show where I absolutely love 80-90% of it but oof that other ten percent. X has severe pacing issues in the first half but possibly has my favorite ending of any Gundam series other than Turn A, and that helps it a lot.
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Mar 2, 2020 07:47
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Yeah, X has a long stretch of meh in the middle but I feel like the ending is worth it. It also has some good music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIP7DFjEMBU
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Mar 2, 2020 08:18
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ImpAtom posted:They were not surprised Iirc, wasn't the whole point that bit a motivational speech of "gently caress the humans, we'll prove we're badass motherfuckers and not disposable grunts?"
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Mar 2, 2020 08:35
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Iirc, wasn't the whole point that bit a motivational speech of "gently caress the humans, we'll prove we're badass motherfuckers and not disposable grunts?" Yeah the purpose of that speech was Mask explaining to his troops that he's also one of them and fully aware of their history, and that despite that history that makes everyone poo poo on them they're going to prove that they're the best.
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Mar 2, 2020 08:55
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Gundam X is effectively the shonen Sailor Moon Gundam and that thought is always hilarious to me. In the name of the moon, [big fuckoff laser]!!!!
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Mar 2, 2020 09:06
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Warmachine posted:I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for the X and Double X Satellite cannons and G-Bits. I proper love the weird zig-zag twisty motion that bit MS make. Also the Vertigo is one of my favourite non-Gundam high-spec suits.
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Mar 2, 2020 12:16
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The Vertigo having a second monoeye in its chest for when it launches bits is the coolest poo poo.
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Mar 3, 2020 00:34
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My problem with G-Reco is that I find Bellri an utterly uncompelling protagonist compared to Mask, who I actually was rooting for even though I knew it wasn't going to end well for him. It doesn't help that the fights end in "Bellri pulls a powerup out of his rear end" a bunch of the time.
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Mar 3, 2020 02:23
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The same thing happens a few times in Turn A. Only, I think it works better in Turn A despite Loran having almost no arc, because Turn A uses those instances to highlight how weird and alien the Turn A is and build up to the revelation that it's a terrifying unit that completely hosed civilization sideways at one point near the the finale. The G-Self isn't really built up to be any kind of mysterious unit at all, and Bellri just uses new powers to end fights because reasons. I think the most egregious instance to me isn't even Bellri using a new power, since I think the copy/paste shield was used before that point (and was definitely used after it) but the Yggdrassil is made to look like this monstrous unit that can destroy anything with almost a touch because it's main weapon is so far-reaching and powerful; then Bellri fights it by turning on his beam shield, flying right up to the unit and sticking a beam saber in the hull before flying off. Which is the laziest and most boring way I can think of to end a fight.
tsob fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Mar 3, 2020 |
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Mar 3, 2020 10:02
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tsob posted:The same thing happens a few times in Turn A. Only, I think it works better in Turn A despite Loran having almost no arc, because Turn A uses those instances to highlight how weird and alien the Turn A is and build up to the revelation that it's a terrifying unit that completely hosed civilization sideways at one point near the the finale. The G-Self isn't really built up to be any kind of mysterious unit at all, and Bellri just uses new powers to end fights because reasons. I think the most egregious instance to me isn't even Bellri using a new power, since I think the copy/paste shield was used before that point (and was definitely used after it) but the Yggdrassil is made to look like this monstrous unit that can destroy anything with almost a touch because it's main weapon is so far-reaching and powerful; then Bellri fights it by turning on his beam shield, flying right up to the unit and sticking a beam saber in the hull before flying off. Which is the laziest and most boring way I can think of to end a fight. The Turn A also spends a lot of time working for those new powers, and getting them is portrayed as a major shift. It starts out completely unarmed, and it's pretty far into the series before it's pulling anything that a standard issue protagonist Gundam would blink at. When it fights Harry Ord's Sumo, it's shown as the underdog if anything. The G-Self, meanwhile, is outpowering its opponents from the start, and it just keeps getting more powerful. It lacks the Turn A's weight or its limits. Loran also has a clear set of goals, unlike Bell. From the beginning, he's trying to stop a one-sided war long enough for peace talks to succeed. He's trying to do something difficult enough to need the Turn A's power. Bellri's in the middle of a lot of fights that could be won without him, without clear motives or stakes, just... being overpowered. It's much harder to get invested in fights when it's clear Bellri can get a new power if he's in trouble.
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Mar 3, 2020 13:40
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chiasaur11 posted:The Turn A also spends a lot of time working for those new powers, and getting them is portrayed as a major shift. It starts out completely unarmed, and it's pretty far into the series before it's pulling anything that a standard issue protagonist Gundam would blink at. When it fights Harry Ord's Sumo, it's shown as the underdog if anything. Ehhh...there's no real ceremony to the Turn-A using it's i-field to defend the field hospital and I don't think it represents any kind of shift in how the audience are supposed to perceive it either. I can certainly see how that's true of later stuff, like when it bends light to go invisible or uses the i-field (which may actually be the Moonlight Butterfly given the multi-colored effect) to defend the Winter Palace with Harry explaining that the energy to do so comes from the pilot's will, since the show is clearly ramping up the Turn A at that point. When it uses the i-field against the WaDom's juiced up mega particle cannon there's nothing suggesting this is a new and weird thing that is foreshadowing really. That said, Horace examines the Turn A shortly before that, after Harry's SUMO punches the side of the head in, and says that the nanomachines are so advanced even he doesn't fully understand them despite being a nanomachine expert from the Moon and that the repair work of the Turn A is a lot more akin to biological healing than anything like machine repair. So the suggestion is kind of there around about that time regardless; just not from the Turn A pulling out a new power to survive a situation that's just arisen. chiasaur11 posted:Loran also has a clear set of goals, unlike Bell. From the beginning, he's trying to stop a one-sided war long enough for peace talks to succeed. He's trying to do something difficult enough to need the Turn A's power. Bellri's in the middle of a lot of fights that could be won without him, without clear motives or stakes, just... being overpowered. It's much harder to get invested in fights when it's clear Bellri can get a new power if he's in trouble. That's true too. Loran, or rather, the Turn A are the only significant mobile power Ameria has for much of the show. They do have Kapools, Borjanons and a captured FLAT, but none of them are really comparable to the military units even the Dianna Counter militia are fielding. Honestly, even late in the show when everyone returns from the Moon all the main cast have are some Kapools and Borjarnons and they're shown to be completely ineffective against the SUMOs and Muttowoos they end up fighting because their weapons are unable to damage the enemy units. Only Corin's Kapool was of any real use, and that was because it had an advanced weapon none of the rest had access too. Without the Turn A, Ameria was well and truly hosed and pretty much none of the fights would have gone their way. Which may lean the narrative too much in the other direction, since it means Loran really can't lose in many instances, since it would render Ameria completely powerless. At least if they had some grunts that could technically stand up to their enemy, at least occasionally or circumstantially, then the Turn A would be more open to defeat.
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Mar 3, 2020 16:21
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tsob posted:That's true too. Loran, or rather, the Turn A are the only significant mobile power Ameria has for much of the show. They do have Kapools, Borjanons and a captured FLAT, but none of them are really comparable to the military units even the Dianna Counter militia are fielding. Honestly, even late in the show when everyone returns from the Moon all the main cast have are some Kapools and Borjarnons and they're shown to be completely ineffective against the SUMOs and Muttowoos they end up fighting because their weapons are unable to damage the enemy units. Only Corin's Kapool was of any real use, and that was because it had an advanced weapon none of the rest had access too. Without the Turn A, Ameria was well and truly hosed and pretty much none of the fights would have gone their way. Which may lean the narrative too much in the other direction, since it means Loran really can't lose in many instances, since it would render Ameria completely powerless. At least if they had some grunts that could technically stand up to their enemy, at least occasionally or circumstantially, then the Turn A would be more open to defeat. Sochie manages to take out a Mahiroo in the Moon arc (rock breaks scissors) and a team of Borjarnons takes out a SUMO at peace talks with an ambush. Heck, at one point Loran loses to Harry and only escapes thanks to the Suicide Team bailing him out. Ameria's outgunned by a lot, but they're able to contribute.
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Mar 3, 2020 23:15
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tsob posted:Only Corin's Kapool was of any real use, and that was because it had an advanced weapon none of the rest had access too. Truly the unstoppable might of the Rocket Punch to the Crotch was the enemies one weakness. :P Corin Nander may just be up to him being Corin Nander, who is simultaneously a complete goofball, a scarred warrior, odd criminal, head of the local Team Rocket, probably the world's oldest human, and also a Gundam Wing extra. Which the last probably explains a lot about him. chiasaur11 posted:Sochie manages to take out a Mahiroo in the Moon arc (rock breaks scissors) and a team of Borjarnons takes out a SUMO at peace talks with an ambush. Heck, at one point Loran loses to Harry and only escapes thanks to the Suicide Team bailing him out. While I agree with your assessment, I'm going to point out that Mahiroo's kinda suck (on top of being piloted by the legendarily incompetent Ghingham Fleet). When Cancer gets in one, she notes that it's kinda dated and hard to control compared to the FLATs she tends to pilot. None of their combat performance really contradicts this, although the existence of Sweatson Sterno makes it kinda hard to judge fairly. It makes sense for the Ghingham Fleet to have a bunch of suits that are old and kinda lame, they're a disused relic of the past clinging onto a legacy but being kinda worthless on their own apart from aimless destruction. (Gym himself is more competent, but just enough to be impossibly dangerous when he's gained access to the Turn X.) gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Mar 4, 2020 |
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Mar 4, 2020 07:55
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The Mahiroo does seem to be more agile and more capable of three-dimensional combat than most Moonrace suits, but a combination of clunky controls and inexperienced pilots means the SUMO is the best all-rounder of their mass-produced units (although the Bandit does seem to be quite good, as an MS duellist with a Mobile Trace System and both specialised and general-purpose weaponry).
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Mar 4, 2020 10:21
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Doesn't have a dick-puncher though, does it
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Mar 4, 2020 10:40
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Darth Walrus posted:The Mahiroo does seem to be more agile and more capable of three-dimensional combat than most Moonrace suits, but a combination of clunky controls and inexperienced pilots means the SUMO is the best all-rounder of their mass-produced units (although the Bandit does seem to be quite good, as an MS duellist with a Mobile Trace System and both specialised and general-purpose weaponry). I don't think I'd call the Bandit mass-produced, wasn't it a suit that they dug up a small cache of near the Turn X? gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Mar 4, 2020 |
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Mar 4, 2020 13:45
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gourdcaptain posted:I don't think I'd call the Bandit mass-produced, wasn't it a suit that they dug up a small cache of near the Turn X? I mean, it's as mass-produced as the Kapool or Borjarnon. It's not a unique machine like the Turns.
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Mar 4, 2020 14:48
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, it's as mass-produced as the Kapool or Borjarnon. It's not a unique machine like the Turns. Fair enough. It just always felt to me like there were a decent number of Kapools and Borjanons, but about five Bandits. Speaking of which, I'd love to know how they decided on the Kapool as the main America grunt mech, given it shows up in ZZ for one filler episode of no real overall importance prior to Turn A and that's it. (Also they're just oddly adorable in Turn A.)
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Mar 4, 2020 15:12
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gourdcaptain posted:Fair enough. It just always felt to me like there were a decent number of Kapools and Borjanons, but about five Bandits. I think that's the idea, that it's not what you would choose for your main mass production suit, because they didn't choose it. It's what they found. You don't know what you're gonna leave to future generations and future generations aren't gonna know what they're gonna dig up. It's like the opposite of G-Reco. In Turn A the suits they got from the past were a weird kinda lovely one. IN G-Reco they get almost exclusively super advanced ace suits. And in neither case do they understand the role those suits played in the past.
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Mar 4, 2020 15:18
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Gripweed posted:I think that's the idea, that it's not what you would choose for your main mass production suit, because they didn't choose it. It's what they found. You don't know what you're gonna leave to future generations and future generations aren't gonna know what they're gonna dig up. G-Reco is a bit different. Everything in it is a newly-built machine made by well-resourced and reasonably competent (well, Lockheed Martin competent) modern mobile suit designers using varying amounts of rediscovered ancient technology. It's not poo poo they dug out of the ground, it's elite modern engineers' interpretations of poo poo they dug out of the ground.
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Mar 4, 2020 15:36
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Darth Walrus posted:G-Reco is a bit different. Everything in it is a newly-built machine made by well-resourced and reasonably competent (well, Lockheed Martin competent) modern mobile suit designers using varying amounts of rediscovered ancient technology. It's not poo poo they dug out of the ground, it's elite modern engineers' interpretations of poo poo they dug out of the ground. And half the point of building them is "What the hell is this system described, and what does it do? Let's build a Mobile Suit with it and see what happens!  ". They're not using rediscovered technology though, they're working off forbidden design documents that nobody's supposed to read or use.
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Mar 4, 2020 16:12
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Darth Walrus posted:G-Reco is a bit different. Everything in it is a newly-built machine made by well-resourced and reasonably competent (well, Lockheed Martin competent) modern mobile suit designers using varying amounts of rediscovered ancient technology. It's not poo poo they dug out of the ground, it's elite modern engineers' interpretations of poo poo they dug out of the ground. Either way it's poorly understood recovered technology from the past. Literally dug out of the ground or based on ancient designs, there's a thematic similarity.
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Mar 4, 2020 16:19
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Neddy Seagoon posted:And half the point of building them is "What the hell is this system described, and what does it do? Let's build a Mobile Suit with it and see what happens! The G-IT Labs, who are the point of origin of a lot of the show's suit designs, are absolutely working off rediscovered tech. Hence stuff like the Z'Gocky. They're mechanical historians who decided to use their discoveries for interplanetary rule.
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Mar 4, 2020 16:25
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chiasaur11 posted:Sochie manages to take out a Mahiroo in the Moon arc (rock breaks scissors) and a team of Borjarnons takes out a SUMO at peace talks with an ambush. Heck, at one point Loran loses to Harry and only escapes thanks to the Suicide Team bailing him out. Wasn't the Gundam Hammer Sochie used to damage the Mahiroo (she only explodes a hand/elbow rather than taking the unit out as such) a weapon she'd taken from somewhere else? The Zaku II's are shown as completely unable to damage a SUMO with their normal machine guns, and the bullets just plink harmlessly off them while the SUMO itself is shown as being basically worthless against the Turn X because it just soaks up fire from their beam pistol. gourdcaptain posted:Corin Nander may just be up to him being Corin Nander, who is simultaneously a complete goofball, a scarred warrior, odd criminal, head of the local Team Rocket, probably the world's oldest human, and also a Gundam Wing extra. Which the last probably explains a lot about him. I've always preferred the idea that he was either the original Turn X pilot, or someone that faced the Turn A when it was in use originally and that that's why he's so angry and scared of the unit initially, as well as recognizing the smell of the Moonlight Butterfly in action later in the show. The Gundam Wing thing is so quick that it seems easy to just write off as a reference for the sake of fun, rather than any kind of actual character beat. Not that he couldn't be both, but beyond the reference there never seemed enough substance there to actually think of him as being from Gundam Wing honestly. gourdcaptain posted:I don't think I'd call the Bandit mass-produced, wasn't it a suit that they dug up a small cache of near the Turn X? I'm pretty sure there are only 2 Bandits, one of which is remotely controlled by Merrybell from the other unit. It's essentially a one off limited production unit and/or prototype, and no-one besides Merrybell ever pilots one. There might be three instead of two (it's hard to keep track of, since they're all identically externally), but it doesn't change the point regardless, because Merrybell is still the only person to ever actually pilot one and the rest (whether it's 1 or more) are all either remotely controlled or simply AI controlled akin to either the G-Bits from X and/or the Mobile Dolls from Wing.
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Mar 4, 2020 18:49
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tsob posted:
Alternately, Corin Nander keeps being unfrozen and refrozen at the worst possible points. Psycho Gundam, Devil Gundam, Wing Zero, Turn A... I'm very fond of the low-key gag that when Guin steals Dark History records, he gets info on the specs of the Nether Gundam.
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Mar 4, 2020 19:26
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gourdcaptain posted:I just figured he'd had some kind of rough Gundam experience, and given the crazy Wing Zero demon machine stuff in Wing with it going on killing sprees it could be one of those. Honestly the Nether Gundam is only really a bad machine by G Gundam standards, it would probably be a rather good suit in a lot of other series
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Mar 4, 2020 20:46
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drrockso20 posted:Honestly the Nether Gundam is only really a bad machine by G Gundam standards, it would probably be a rather good suit in a lot of other series Kinda hard to judge that one. At the least, it's a very silly one to get. Now, I think they should have gotten the plans for the most powerful machine of the One Year War: the Zakrello.
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Mar 4, 2020 21:07
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gourdcaptain posted:I just figured he'd had some kind of rough Gundam experience, and given the crazy Wing Zero demon machine stuff in Wing with it going on killing sprees it could be one of those. He also gets Fuunsaiki. He absolutely should have found a horse and given it Fuunsaika. Or, possibly better, tried to push a human to pilot the horse mech.
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Mar 4, 2020 21:27
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tsob posted:He also gets Fuunsaiki. He absolutely should have found a horse and given it Fuunsaika. Or, possibly better, tried to push a human to pilot the horse mech. Heh. Fortunately, like with Ghingham's use of the Turn X's Shining Finger, they lack the knowledge of the School of the Undefeated of the East to use these things properly. (I'll argue that him shooting an energy beam is the Shining Finger, since Domon does that in his first fight with George De Sand out of nowhere. Hey, it's less gloriously random than God Shadow.)
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Mar 4, 2020 21:30
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gourdcaptain posted:Heh. Fortunately, like with Ghingham's use of the Turn X's Shining Finger, they lack the knowledge of the School of the Undefeated of the East to use these things properly. (I'll argue that him shooting an energy beam is the Shining Finger, since Domon does that in his first fight with George De Sand out of nowhere. Hey, it's less gloriously random than God Shadow.) The kit manual calls it the Shining Finger as well. In English, even!
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Mar 4, 2020 23:54
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G Gundam was the one non-Tomino show that Turn A leaned in to referencing quite a bit. There's a handful of references to Wing and X, between Corin seeing the Wing Zero for a few frames, the X showing up during the Black History in a recorded video etc, and a few other possible ones since the Bandit appears to have Bit suits and the Zssan might have either AI or be Bit controlled too, but there was notably more references to G. Several Moonrace suits use Neo Japan style naming conventions for the model numbers, the Mahiroo is said to have a mobile trace system, the Moonlight Butterfly is implied to work in a similar manner to the Ultimate Gundam/Devil Gundam's nanomachines (by integrating in to the Earth after activation to heal it), both Fuunsaiki and the Nether Gundam show up in the Black History records when Sid is showing them to Guin aboard the Wilgame etc. It's probably because Imagawa used to be Tomino's junior and the two were at least work colleagues, if not friends and so Tomino may have felt more comfortable referencing the work of someone he was personally familiar with; or just wanted to do so more than people he wasn't personally familiar with.
tsob fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 00:06
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gourdcaptain posted:I'm very fond of the low-key gag that when Guin steals Dark History records, he gets info on the specs of the Nether Gundam. In what universe is the Nether Gundam not the greatest Gundam ever created?
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Mar 5, 2020 00:25
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Tequila Gundam is some stiff competition.
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Mar 5, 2020 00:49
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OptimusShr posted:In what universe is the Nether Gundam not the greatest Gundam ever created? Schubalts posted:Tequila Gundam is some stiff competition. More broadly, the same universe it was created in. It's an entire timeline of (not so) vaguely racist caricatures of nationalities featuring not only Racist Mexican Gundam but also a direct homage to the first Iraq war called Scud Gundam, that was beaten (in one punch!) by Football-Boxing-Surfing-Cowboy Gundam. Then there's a Gundam that transforms into a fish. Arguably inferior to the windmill, but siphoning votes from the same base. Sailor Moon Gundam is a protagonist, Zebra Gundam exists... Yeah, Nether Gundam is a meme, but G Gundam ITSELF is a meme.
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Mar 5, 2020 01:58
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The Nether Gundam is trash because it's a mass produced military unit which as we all know can never stand up to specialized prototypes.
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Mar 5, 2020 02:00
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even after all these years, it's still really funny that nether gundam is the one that got mass-produced.
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Mar 5, 2020 02:48
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:even after all these years, it's still really funny that nether gundam is the one that got mass-produced. And once it was, they put an end to the Devil Gundam in no time. Checkmate.
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Mar 5, 2020 03:09
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chiasaur11 posted:And once it was, they put an end to the Devil Gundam in no time. Dozel Zabi parachute account spotted.
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Mar 5, 2020 03:15
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