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sto.jpg And other fine folks today.   
Cythereal fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 00:08
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Character bios that are 2 edgy 2 cool are almost refreshing after all the obvious sexual fantasy ones. Edit - example for anyone wandering into the thread wondering what the hell:  (4 year old image, I'm sure others have plenty of newer screen captures) DancingShade fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Mar 8, 2020 |
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Mar 8, 2020 04:14
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Pubbie bio time? My go-to example here is to simply quote the first entry of our innaugural bio bingo event in 2012. Mangoes announced it and Grimrak filled the entire card in no time flat. Ah the halcyon days of STO... most of the images still workKorgan posted:Oh, this will be hilarious. Nowadays y'all won't bother even for the loot. Alas
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Mar 8, 2020 04:30
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Mondian posted:Pubbie bio time? My go-to example here is to simply quote the first entry of our innaugural bio bingo event in 2012. Mangoes announced it and Grimrak filled the entire card in no time flat. Ah the halcyon days of STO... most of the images still work this is the first one and is a pretty dang strong contender for the definitive sto.jpg 
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Mar 8, 2020 05:13
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Look at that entitlement complex one, its so short, but drat... Eight years ago he bitched about this and now in 2020 he can watch a brand new patstew trek series about the thing he hates, where he sides with the dystopia shitworld. I guess it all makes sense to me now, Kurtzman is writing for sto pubbies
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Mar 8, 2020 10:32
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Man, I gotta go back and find that one that I dug up just recently. It was loving majestic in its pedo awfulness.
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Mar 8, 2020 17:13
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And here we go.Cyrano4747 posted:Checking the info on 3 foot tall child-like things in Drozana is loving cheat mode for this.
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Mar 8, 2020 17:13
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I've decided I'm going to try and make a game in Unity building off the Admiralty mini-game. Semper Games.
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Mar 8, 2020 19:53
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:I've decided I'm going to try and make a game in Unity building off the Admiralty mini-game. Semper Games. Maybe Cryptic will hire you since the only person who understood how Admirality was coded left and no one else has wanted to touch it with a ten-foot pole much since. ...Or so I hear.
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Mar 8, 2020 20:05
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Longbaugh01 posted:Maybe Cryptic will hire you since the only person who understood how Admirality was coded left and no one else has wanted to touch it with a ten-foot pole much since. I doubt anything I'd be figuring out would deal with their problems. I mean- from a game design perspective it's just a dice roller.
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Mar 8, 2020 21:16
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Where did Heretic end up anyway
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Mar 8, 2020 21:17
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Mondian posted:Where did Heretic end up anyway God drat it, Lesh! >=O **roleplays omg**
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Mar 8, 2020 23:10
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Mondian posted:Where did Heretic end up anyway He became the content lead for Marvel Heroes and now is working for some AR games company called Illumix
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Mar 9, 2020 00:51
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Asimo posted:Temporal skills are amazing for Boat Wizards, especially since full temporal ships have an option that boosts exotic damage on top of it. Command is... meh but there's like two skills in it that are good for niche builds? Never really messed with miracle worker beyond trying the weapon skill once and finding it worthless. command is good for torp boats because of concentrate firepower and Miracle Worker seating is the best for energy weapon builds bc of the bonus damage from Narrow Sensor Bands and Mixed Armaments Synergy
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Mar 9, 2020 14:32
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So this summer's event ship is going to be a Risan science vessel. That's something, I guess.
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Mar 10, 2020 22:58
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Cythereal posted:So this summer's event ship is going to be a Risan science vessel. That's something, I guess. It better have a hot tub on its bridge.
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Mar 11, 2020 00:15
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The only science they study on Risa is biology 
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Mar 11, 2020 09:38
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Dick Bass posted:It better have a hot tub on its bridge. People have been asking that for many years, don't get your hopes up.
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Mar 11, 2020 10:09
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Cryptic has been pretty clear that they aren't making new bridges for ships unless they need to do so for a mission map. Even the new borg juggernaut thing only has the generic bridge despite a bunch of borg map assets already being available.
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Mar 11, 2020 12:07
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Longbaugh01 posted:Maybe Cryptic will hire you since the only person who understood how Admirality was coded left and no one else has wanted to touch it with a ten-foot pole much since. It cannot be that complicated.
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Mar 11, 2020 13:39
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Dirty posted:It cannot be that complicated. Imagine a decade of poorly or undocumented spaghetti code.
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Mar 11, 2020 21:11
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DancingShade posted:Imagine a decade of poorly or undocumented spaghetti code. I had to double check that this was the "dumb old startrek MMO thread" and not the "admins talking about admin poo poo thread." I'm not a coder. I don't do that poo poo. But I've had discussions with some of the people who work on Radium's hellspawn here at SA and bad code is the gift that keeps on giving. Check out the copyright date at the bottom of the forums. See how it's 2017? Yeah, at one point someone broke the forums updating that. For all we know overhauling the admiralty system could gently caress with accounts, give everyone free zen ships, or make phasers shoot tribbles.
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Mar 11, 2020 21:37
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Actually it was the duty officer system that had the dev who made it left, wasn't it? Admiralty was a lot more recent. Was also probably why doffs basically seemed abandoned after delta rising, though they did finally add some new ones in the current lock box.
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Mar 11, 2020 21:58
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Asimo posted:Actually it was the duty officer system that had the dev who made it left, wasn't it? Admiralty was a lot more recent. Was also probably why doffs basically seemed abandoned after delta rising, though they did finally add some new ones in the current lock box. Might’ve been. Easy to get dumb CCG distraction busywork confused.
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Mar 11, 2020 23:32
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DancingShade posted:Imagine a decade of poorly or undocumented spaghetti code. Well, admiralty's what, 4 years old? If they were able to add Admiralty in the first place, then STO can't be unusable spaghetti code. They wouldn't be adding anything if that was the case. Admiralty itself could be messy, but considering it's limited complexity (and the fact they were recently able to update the awards on it without any problem) it seems a stretch that it would be just impenetrable. I've heard the same thing about DOFFs (again in this thread), the Foundry, even the Kobayashi Maru TFO... maybe it's all true, but if it was I don't know how they'd be doing regular content and feature updates for a decade if no one can understand the code.
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Mar 11, 2020 23:46
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You can add stuff to a framework, that doesn’t mean the framework itself isn’t rotten.
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Mar 12, 2020 00:13
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Asimo posted:Actually it was the duty officer system that had the dev who made it left, wasn't it? Admiralty was a lot more recent. Was also probably why doffs basically seemed abandoned after delta rising, though they did finally add some new ones in the current lock box. Yeah it was doffs. Admiralty is understood, it's just not really been supported since the Ferengi campaign was released what, three years ago?
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Mar 12, 2020 00:16
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Dirty posted:Well, admiralty's what, 4 years old? If they were able to add Admiralty in the first place, then STO can't be unusable spaghetti code. They wouldn't be adding anything if that was the case. Admiralty itself could be messy, but considering it's limited complexity (and the fact they were recently able to update the awards on it without any problem) it seems a stretch that it would be just impenetrable. I've heard the same thing about DOFFs (again in this thread), the Foundry, even the Kobayashi Maru TFO... maybe it's all true, but if it was I don't know how they'd be doing regular content and feature updates for a decade if no one can understand the code. Part of the issue is finding and retaining talent too. All sorts of companies make due with some just wretched software. LIke, the poo poo airlines use to schedule flights is apparently just a nightmare. The difference is that those companies can afford to hire a bunch of talented programmers to either unfuck it or make it at least limp along. Meanwhile, SA needs to make do with whatever admins we can find who are willing to do coding poo poo for free. I doubt that Cryptic's budget is as constrained as these forums, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they have to prioritize where they put their money in STO. Hiring people to make new missions and levels etc or even make new models and assets is one thing. Hiring people to code from scratch or even just majorly rework entire systems might very well be something else, something that requires a lot more investment on the personnel side.
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Mar 12, 2020 00:20
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Cyrano4747 posted:Hiring people to make new missions and levels etc or even make new models and assets is one thing. Hiring people to code from scratch or even just majorly rework entire systems might very well be something else, something that requires a lot more investment on the personnel side. Bingo! These work hours were long ago allocated to NWO and then to the mtg game. Just doesn't make financial sense to fix these problems when you can just get a ship artist to pump out a $450 c-store mega pack or whatever
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Mar 12, 2020 00:23
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Regarding doffs, my understanding is that Heretic really wanted to make that system and put a lot more effort into it than you can generally expect a sto dev to put into something. And since it was his pet project that no one else cared about, it's just been neglected. You can see the work that was put into its creation with all the unique doffs that have flavor text quotes- I'm pretty sure Heretic wrote almost every one of those. When they make unique doffs now they're too lazy to make up a one-line quote, but that's the sort of tiny detail that sticks with players. I also remember that KDF doffing used to have some tactical assignments that took 12 hours but had really high XP rewards. Then maybe four or five yeas ago, they nerfed the poo poo out of those, and responded to player complaints by saying it was obviously unintentional that a doff mission would reward so much XP. Then some player dug through the Archived Post hell of the original forum and found a post by Heretic where he was asked about those exact assignments and said he'd made their rewards high to encourage people to doff on the KDF side. A post from the past, directly contradicting the company line, which changed nothing but was very funny.
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Mar 12, 2020 00:44
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That's basically my point. What people seem to ascribe to impenetrable spaghetti code that's forever doomed because some guy left is more likely to simply be not a priority anymore. There's always dozens upon dozens of things to get done in a project this size, and at least 85% of those things need to be new stuff, not fiddling with old stuff that's basically already working and fulfilling the role it was intended for. Budget and development team size doesn't really change that - no company wants to put devs on projects that aren't going to materially affect revenue. See also: people calling devs "lazy". Pretty neat that tightly scheduled dev time as a result of company pressure gets blamed on devs who probably actually quite enjoy their job and would genuinely love to spend time getting everything just perfect. As a dev, I find that so neat. Dirty fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Mar 12, 2020 |
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Mar 12, 2020 01:17
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Dirty posted:That's basically my point. What people seem to ascribe to impenetrable spaghetti code that's forever doomed because some guy left is more likely to simply be not a priority anymore. There's always dozens upon dozens of things to get done in a project this size, and at least 85% of those things need to be new stuff, not fiddling with old stuff that's basically already working and fulfilling the role it was intended for. on the other hand though, STO devs in particular are actually notoriously extraordinarily lazy and sloppy and untalented
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Mar 12, 2020 01:30
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This. I’m a software architect by trade and I’ve seen plenty of spaghetti code in my time. If your job is at all incentivized to do so you have time to figure it out and expand upon it, then you figure it out, or you move on. (As in find another job) So my only take on this is that the leads on STO are not prioritizing any of that. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re just as lazy as the people that they task. Edit: I may have been unfair so I’ll add that the leads themselves may have their hands tied by the higher ups that want them to prioritize new ships or whatever that have a higher likelihood of making them money over anything else. Development when the bean counters are ultimately in charge is always a nightmare. Majin fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Mar 12, 2020 |
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Mar 12, 2020 01:39
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Majin posted:Edit: I may have been unfair so I’ll add that the leads themselves may have their hands tied by the higher ups that want them to prioritize new ships or whatever that have a higher likelihood of making them money over anything else. When people say all these systems in STO are spaghetti code, where does that come from? Because my guess is some random forum poster said it as a joke 8 years ago and it got repeated often enough that's it's just become accepted as fact. Players who want to get their blame on start with the source code they've never seen, and then developers who wrote it. So it becomes "lazy developers". That gets trotted out as soon as someone sees so much as a misaligned button. No need to consider anything more nuanced, let's just pile on the developers and then be surprised when we hear that developers are treated like poo poo all the time. I can't imagine a more thankless job than the combination of game developer, on a game that's an MMO, and that MMO is a Star Trek MMO. Put those three things together and you have enough focused complaining to tear a hole in the space time continuum that sucks up the memory of anything good you've ever done as a developer and leaves behind every mistake you've ever made on a giant plinth for all to see. hakimashou posted:on the other hand though, STO devs in particular are actually notoriously extraordinarily lazy and sloppy and untalented
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Mar 12, 2020 02:31
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The source was leaked years ago, it's not rumor
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Mar 12, 2020 03:01
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Mondian posted:The source was leaked years ago, it's not rumor People claiming "X system is spaghetti code" are not basing that on source code analyses (none of which i can find) from a source leak that happened after they started saying that. My point is: people are repeating things that they don't really have a basis for. Sure, the source code was leaked, but that doesn't mean your average pubbie complaining about the code base has any basis for it other than they saw another pubbie saying the same thing and repeating it. I doubt they or anyone they know or interacted with has downloaded and analyzed the 40GB of it. If any kind of analysis exists I'd like to see it though, it would be pretty interesting. If the state of the code is such common knowledge, there must be one out there. Otherwise, again, where is this coming from?
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Mar 12, 2020 11:11
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People who've left cryptic have said it's hosed, many times. It was hosed from the start - Perpetual Entertainment screwed around for years and did nothing and eventually the licence was pulled and given to Cryptic on the condition that they get a functional star trek MMO out by the original announced release date, which meant they had to crash to to develop Star Trek Online in eighteen months, an insane schedule for developing an MMO. They didn't get anything from perpetual, and they pulled off a miracle by hacking up the champions online engine and somehow shoving a space game into it, but the all the game systems design was practically done off the cuff because they didn't have time to actually plan.
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Mar 12, 2020 11:40
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Yeah it's not exactly a secret that STO's development was basically as much of a panicked disaster built off the skeleton of Champions Online in record time, and it's frankly a miracle it works at all. It's not quite as dramatic a rebuild as FFXIV 1.0>ARR, but it was still done with less than a tenth of the staff. Basically every major system in the game has been rebuilt from the ground up over the past decade (a few multiple times) and, I mean, it's not exactly a leap to assume the game code is held together with chewing gum and packing tape.
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Mar 12, 2020 11:49
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Yeah, I know all about the rushed development. That makes my point about how "lazy developers" take the blame - I'm certain they did not volunteer for the misery of a contracted development schedule. Laziness has nothing to do with it.Asimo posted:Basically every major system in the game has been rebuilt from the ground up over the past decade (a few multiple times) and, I mean, it's not exactly a leap to assume the game code is held together with chewing gum and packing tape. MikeJF posted:People who've left cryptic have said it's hosed, many times. I'm not saying the devs are perfect and I'm sure there's some truth to the idea that STO has some spaghetti code in there - a lot of things do. But it's notable that we've lurched from "admiralty is spaghetti" to "no, DOFFs are spaghetti", to "no, the guy left and it was his pet project" to "it's widely known it's all spaghetti" and finally "it was a rushed development which was spaghetti, but they rebuilt it all from scratch, but that's spaghetti too probably I assume".
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Mar 12, 2020 12:52
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Asimo posted:Yeah it's not exactly a secret that STO's development was basically as much of a panicked disaster built off the skeleton of Champions Online in record time, and it's frankly a miracle it works at all. It's not quite as dramatic a rebuild as FFXIV 1.0>ARR, but it was still done with less than a tenth of the staff. Basically every major system in the game has been rebuilt from the ground up over the past decade (a few multiple times) and, I mean, it's not exactly a leap to assume the game code is held together with chewing gum and packing tape. A good and recent example is the Foundry, which had been breaking for longer and longer periods after major patches until Cryptic finally pulled the plug. From memory this was specifically attributed to not having the development resources to keep it up to date. Similar cases, all off the top of my head: Cross game chat External chat client support Doffing (arguably) The OSX client Neverwinter lost a web-based doffing platform, but I think that was due to rampant botting rather than a lack of support. And that’s without going into some of the more bizarre surface level stuff, like the insane amount of maths required to calculate how much damage one ship weapon does, category a vs category b damage increases, or the really fun stuff like Jem’Hadar Vanguard ships being the only ones able to use the Vanguard wingmen because the game uses the same slot as Singularity Core powers for that particular system.
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Mar 12, 2020 13:00
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