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Katt
Nov 14, 2017

Collateral Damage posted:

Bromma is kind of a poor example because public transport to Bromma airport is intentionally made terrible so it won't compete with Flygbussarna.

I think this was with a Flygbuss :v:

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BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
They’re currently working on adding an offshoot to Tvärbanan that goes by the airport. Dunno when it’s due though.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Katt posted:

I drive 60 km to work and 60 km back home.
Fuel cost per month: about 1800 SEK

Månadskort for the same trip: 1820 SEK


Public transportation should be substantially cheaper just for starters. Even then it would struggle to compete with cars. Never mind costing the same.

Gas cost is not really the only or even the largest monetary cost of commuting by car if you include value depreciation of your car due to wear, extra service, possible parking fees and congestion taxes. This is assuming you needed that car for other purposes than commuting and thus can disregard any loan servicing, road taxes, service etc.

luminalflux
May 27, 2005



I bet they can get a pretty hefty milersättning tho just based on doing 12 mil/day to work

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
https://twitter.com/larslindstrom/status/1236989579242192897?s=21

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

Katt posted:

I'm going to Stockholm for some work next week and travelling 13 km from Bromma to the city centre requires something like 3 changes and takes 50 minutes. For a while I was considering just walking the distance but that would have taken slightly longer.
Biking in stockholm is awesome. So many streets either have lanes or are one way singles where you can trap cars behind you and laugh at their dispair.

Dirk Pitt
Sep 14, 2007

haha yes, this feels good

Toilet Rascal
I’m sure loving not being able to buy garlic at my local coop because the idiots on Lidingö think it will save them from the virus.

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012

Dirk Pitt posted:

I’m sure loving not being able to buy garlic at my local coop because the idiots on Lidingö think it will save them from the virus.

Well in that their breath will enforce a solid 5M radius around them due to their breath, uh, maybe?

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
https://twitter.com/anderslindberg/status/1237387946111553536?s=21

Katt
Nov 14, 2017

I am amazed how crap the Stockholm subway bathrooms are. Despite costing 10 SEK and being fully tiled. They still only come with 3/4ths of a door. What happened to the rest of the door? How do you turn a functional bathroom into a stall?

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!

Katt posted:

I am amazed how crap the Stockholm subway bathrooms are. Despite costing 10 SEK and being fully tiled. They still only come with 3/4ths of a door. What happened to the rest of the door? How do you turn a functional bathroom into a stall?

The ones in pendeltågens stations are pretty decent, which ones you referring to, the ones at Sergel?

Katt
Nov 14, 2017

BigglesSWE posted:

The ones in pendeltågens stations are pretty decent, which ones you referring to, the ones at Sergel?

The big underground travel hub thing where all the trains and subways go.

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012

Katt posted:

The big underground travel hub thing where all the trains and subways go.

T-Centralen/Centralen/Stockholm C/Stockholm City/“several city blocks, all smelling of puddles”

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

The Mustache Makes A Good Point by Accident

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/opinion/sanders-biden-socialism.html

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER


what is it? paywall

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

V. Illych L. posted:

what is it? paywall

quote:

Joe Biden, Not Bernie Sanders, Is the True Scandinavian

Sanders totally misunderstands what’s behind Denmark’s safety net.

By Thomas L. Friedman

Bernie Sanders often cites Denmark as the kind of country he would like America to be under his ideology of “democratic socialism.” Well, here’s a news flash: Bernie Sanders, with his hostile attitudes toward free trade, free markets and multinational corporations, probably couldn’t get elected to a municipal council in Denmark today. Ironically, Joe Biden, with his more balanced views on trade, corporations and unions, probably could. And therein lies a column.

I can explain this best by starting with a few questions that I’d love to ask Sanders about his democratic socialism, beginning with the most basic one: Senator Sanders, where do you think jobs come from?

They come from risk-takers who borrow money from banks or relatives or max out their credit cards or spend their own savings to start companies they hope will become profitable. If that is what Sanders believes, you’d never know it from listening to him.

To listen to him (and his surrogates) is to listen to someone who seems to believe that the American economic pie just miraculously appeared and exists on its own. He never discusses where that pie came from, how to bake it or how to enlarge it. His only interest is how to redivide it.

Second: Senator Sanders, is there a single American entrepreneur or corporate leader whom you admire? Or is each and every one of them part of the “corporate greed and corruption” responsible for “destroying the social and economic fabric of our society,” as you put it on your website. When was the last time you even visited a big U.S. multinational and sat down with its employees and executives?

Third, Senator Sanders, do you believe the free enterprise system is the best means for growing jobs, the economy and opportunity — or do you believe in more socialist central planning? I ask because I have often heard you praise Scandinavian countries, like Denmark, as exemplars of democratic socialism. Have you ever been to Denmark? It’s democratic but not socialist.

Denmark is actually a hypercompetitive, wide-open, market economy devoted to free trade and expanding globalization, since trade — exports and imports — makes up roughly half of Denmark’s G.D.P.

Indeed, Denmark’s 5.8 million people have produced some of the most globally competitive multinationals in the world, by the names of A.P. Moller-Maersk, Danske Bank, Novo Nordisk, Carlsberg Group, Vestas, Coloplast, the Lego Group and Novozymes. These are the very giant multinationals Sanders constantly rails against.

As the former Danish prime minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen once remarked in a speech at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government to those who might not fully grasp the Danish model: “I would like to make one thing clear, Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy. The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state, which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish.”

It is through these engines of capitalism, free trade, economic openness and globalization that Denmark has managed to become wealthy enough to afford the social safety net that Sanders rightly admires — as do I: access for all to child care, medical and parental leave from work, tuition-free college, a living stipend, universal health care and generous pensions.

But there is nothing free about these services. According to Investopedia, Denmark’s progressive income tax tops out at 55.8 percent, and the average individual pays 45 percent. The Danes pay an 8 percent labor market tax, a 5 percent health care tax, as well as hefty municipal taxes and a social security tax. Denmark also has the highest national sales tax in the European Union — 25 percent — on most goods and services, a big tax on the middle class.

In short, Sanders cherry-picks Denmark. He stresses what he loves — all that the Danish state provides — and then he ignores two things: one obvious and important and one less obvious and even more important.

The obvious and important one is the relentlessly entrepreneurial capitalism that generates Denmark’s prosperity and that is celebrated there. The less obvious, but more important, feature of Denmark’s success is the high-trust social compact among its business community, labor unions, social entrepreneurs and government. That’s the real secret of Denmark’s sauce.

I know a little something about this because in March 2018 Rasmussen, who was then still the prime minister, invited me to give a talk about globalization to a retreat at Marienborg, his official residence, as part of a meeting of the Danish “Disruption Council.” It brought together all the country’s stakeholders — corporate leaders, national union leaders, educators, social entrepreneurs and cabinet ministers — to brainstorm about how they should work together to prepare the country for the rest of the century.

It was fascinating for me to watch them respectfully interact. Obviously, in a small, largely homogeneous country of 5.8 million people, it is a lot easier to generate that kind of social trust than in a diverse nation of 327 million. But the point is, no one was demonizing others as “corrupt” by the very fact of who they were — whether labor organizer or corporate titan or someone of wealth.

They understood that it was the balancing of all their interests that made Denmark’s economic growth and generous social safety net possible.

In nature, ecosystems thrive the most when they are “in balance.” Mother Nature achieves that balance in her own ways, some quite brutal. Political systems also thrive when they are in balance. Denmark has found a healthy balance of the interests of capital, labor, social entrepreneurs and government. The thriving and adapting by each reinforces the other.

America is now out of balance. We all sense it in the gross and widening inequality we see around us. Sanders sincerely wants to eliminate that. Alas, so do a lot of us. Michael Bloomberg was running on a platform advocating a 5-percent surtax on incomes of over $5 million annually.

But when you begin that conversation, as Sanders does, by effectively demonizing all risk-taking American entrepreneurs as corrupt, by vowing to redistribute their income — which Sanders seems to believe is all ill gotten by definition — by pretending that all the benefits can be paid for by the wealthy and nothing from the middle class and by voting against the new version of NAFTA — which was supported by the A.F.L.-C.I.O. and Nancy Pelosi as precisely the kind of trade deal with the very union and environmental protections Democrats have long sought — then your true model country is not Denmark. It’s a socialist fantasy.

The truth is, Joe Biden would make a much better Scandinavian-type leader than Bernie Sanders.

Biden, in my view, would be much more likely to — and able to — build a new social contract in America than a President Sanders, because Biden not only genuinely cares about the working class and the homeless — and understands the need for access to lifelong education and health care — he also knows that you don’t get there by demonizing the engines of capitalism and job creation. You have to find a way to work with them.

Denmark did not become Denmark because of a revolution. It evolved where it is today through a steady iteration — unleashing its entrepreneurs on the world to generate as much wealth as they could while constantly forging a dialogue at home among all the stakeholders about how best to share enough of the profits to have a truly just safety net, while not destroying the free-market, free-trade engines of growth, and while maintaining a high sales tax so everyone contributes something.

If Denmark’s social contract is your model — and it’s a good one — then I’d trust Biden much more than Bernie to head us there.

I like how he managed to pick out the company actively murdering American diabetics through price-gouging and the bank involved in the largest money laundering case in human history. But he's right, Bernie isn't sufficiently racist or senile to reflect the Danish model.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

SplitSoul posted:

I like how he managed to pick out the company actively murdering American diabetics through price-gouging and the bank involved in the largest money laundering case in human history. But he's right, Bernie isn't sufficiently racist or senile to reflect the Danish model.

i skimmed it and now i have a headache

friedman is possibly the stupidest man alive

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
My girlfriend, who works at Spotify, has now been ordered to work from home for two weeks. Same with rest of the office.

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012
I’m WFH’ing out of I’m having the worst goddamn period on earth (hooray IUDs), I’m allowed 1-2 days a month. It’s great but I’m also slightly worried that I may be doing this way, way more.

Is it worth stocking up on goods? Roomie doesn’t think so but seeing family and friends in the US doing so is giving me pause.

Alternatively, if anyone want to create a goon quarantine in Eskilstuna, I’m your witch. Cat friendly.
E: four joycons but one has the drift and NO ONE CAN HAVE THE PRO CONTROLLER, BUT ME.

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

teen witch posted:

I’m WFH’ing out of I’m having the worst goddamn period on earth (hooray IUDs), I’m allowed 1-2 days a month. It’s great but I’m also slightly worried that I may be doing this way, way more.

Is it worth stocking up on goods? Roomie doesn’t think so but seeing family and friends in the US doing so is giving me pause.

Alternatively, if anyone want to create a goon quarantine in Eskilstuna, I’m your witch. Cat friendly.
E: four joycons but one has the drift and NO ONE CAN HAVE THE PRO CONTROLLER, BUT ME.

Norwegians stock up on swedish goods all the time, you should totally do that. It's super cheap. I recommend falukorv (at least 5 kilos) and those sausages that come in a freaking can and plenty of Absolut. For your hands.

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012

Nice piece of fish posted:

Norwegians stock up on swedish goods all the time, you should totally do that. It's super cheap. I recommend falukorv (at least 5 kilos) and those sausages that come in a freaking can and plenty of Absolut. For your hands.

It’s not cheaper here since uh, it’s Sweden here. Also I don’t like Falukorv or the Dennis the Menace weiners.

Instead I’ll continue to build my Trocadeo zero and Kex Choklad fortress. 20 yrs dungeon for anyone who says SHEX.

BigglesSWE
Dec 2, 2014

How 'bout them hawks news huh!
I don’t think hoarding stuff will be necessary, but I can see a scenario where certain import-wares might become a bit harder to get. Stuff like fresh fruits.

The only thing I’ve been hoarding lately is cat food, because if things truly does become The Division, I won’t have my fluff being hungry.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Well, I'm sick. I don't think it's corona, but I do work at a school so we'll see.


SplitSoul posted:

I like how he managed to pick out the company actively murdering American diabetics through price-gouging and the bank involved in the largest money laundering case in human history. But he's right, Bernie isn't sufficiently racist or senile to reflect the Danish model.

It's not really the Danish model though, it's common model for all the Nordic countries really, characterized by the welfare state, a strong public sector and a corporatist approach to management of the workplace.

The last one is kind of interesting to me, as recently now, before I got sick, me and another teacher have been sharing responsibility for a social science class, and we're currently doing the chapter on work and labor which means I've been reading up on stuff a bit. While I think the Scandinavian model of organizing and regulating the workplace through negotiations between empowered unions and employers (who also organize in a union of sorts), with the state standing as guarantor and mediator is very good, I've begun to get the impression that the system kind of falls apart when it tries to adress breaches of arbeidsmiljøloven and other measures that happen outside of these boundaries.

Breaches I'm talking about are withholding of wages (or very low wages, keep in mind that Norway like most Scandinavian countries actually does not have a state-mandated minimum wage), excessive work hours, hostile work-environments, lax safety concerns, and exploitation of foreign workers and immigrants that borders on human trafficking, when these breaches occur in workplaces where you don't have the established unions that can negotiate and represent workers, the measures the authorities can resort to to investigate those seem very limited and reliant on good faith and working relationship between the workers (represented by said union) and the employers. In the absence of this they often seem to simply resort to rubber-stamping whatever reports the employers and the verneombud submit to say that they've dealt with issues. Similarly the police are limtied both by not having the institutional capacity to truly work outside of this model either or else they simply do not have the resources to investigate them and just have to close them.

Retarded Goatee
Feb 6, 2010
I spent :10bux: so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
I decided to err on the side of caution and bought a 5 kg sack of rice and stocked up on a bunch of frozen chicken and vegetables. Also some non-perishables such as coconut milk. If poo poo hits the fan, I'll at least be well fed.

Grevling
Dec 18, 2016

Retarded Goatee posted:

I decided to err on the side of caution and bought a 5 kg sack of rice and stocked up on a bunch of frozen chicken and vegetables. Also some non-perishables such as coconut milk. If poo poo hits the fan, I'll at least be well fed.

I also bought a bunch of food because why not, it's mostly cheap and good for you anyway and I don't want to go around making people sick if I end up catching it. Here in Oslo there have been cases where they have no idea where people got infected which rules.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Randarkman posted:

Well, I'm sick. I don't think it's corona, but I do work at a school so we'll see.


It's not really the Danish model though, it's common model for all the Nordic countries really, characterized by the welfare state, a strong public sector and a corporatist approach to management of the workplace.

The last one is kind of interesting to me, as recently now, before I got sick, me and another teacher have been sharing responsibility for a social science class, and we're currently doing the chapter on work and labor which means I've been reading up on stuff a bit. While I think the Scandinavian model of organizing and regulating the workplace through negotiations between empowered unions and employers (who also organize in a union of sorts), with the state standing as guarantor and mediator is very good, I've begun to get the impression that the system kind of falls apart when it tries to adress breaches of arbeidsmiljøloven and other measures that happen outside of these boundaries.

Breaches I'm talking about are withholding of wages (or very low wages, keep in mind that Norway like most Scandinavian countries actually does not have a state-mandated minimum wage), excessive work hours, hostile work-environments, lax safety concerns, and exploitation of foreign workers and immigrants that borders on human trafficking, when these breaches occur in workplaces where you don't have the established unions that can negotiate and represent workers, the measures the authorities can resort to to investigate those seem very limited and reliant on good faith and working relationship between the workers (represented by said union) and the employers. In the absence of this they often seem to simply resort to rubber-stamping whatever reports the employers and the verneombud submit to say that they've dealt with issues. Similarly the police are limtied both by not having the institutional capacity to truly work outside of this model either or else they simply do not have the resources to investigate them and just have to close them.

they don't deal well with it at all. i worked in hospitality for a few years and it's a complete horror show of wage- and pensions theft, coercive scheduling practices, workplace bullying and a flagrant disavowal of employees' actual health and safety in favour of narrow-minded formalism. it's a perfect demonstration of neoliberalism's failings. i ended up unionising the workplace and they just outright bribed and threatened members so they'd leave lol

arbeidstilsynet has been seeing a lot of cuts lately and only tend to go for the very easiest prey, and even when they're engaged it's usually beneficial for the business to just take the miniscule fine they end up with and keep on not paying people overtime. if i wanted to get the pensions i'm owed i'd have to hire a lawyer and take the case in a civil suit, which would probably cost me more than they owe me

V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Mar 11, 2020

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
I bought all the blood puddings in the store

Potrzebie
Apr 6, 2010

I may not know what I'm talking about, but I sure love cops! ^^ Boy, but that boot is just yummy!
Lipstick Apathy

Zzulu posted:

I bought all the blood puddings in the store

You monster!

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

teen witch posted:

Is it worth stocking up on goods? Roomie doesn’t think so but seeing family and friends in the US doing so is giving me pause.
Ask roomie who's gonna feed them for 14 days when they're ordered to self isolate. JFC 2 weeks of long-keeping food isn't the worst

Fader Movitz
Sep 25, 2012

Snus, snaps och saltlakrits
Now's the time to read "Om krisen eller kriget kommer". MSB can feel really smug about the pople who laughed at it when they sent it out.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

V. Illych L. posted:

arbeidstilsynet has been seeing a lot of cuts lately and only tend to go for the very easiest prey, and even when they're engaged it's usually beneficial for the business to just take the miniscule fine they end up with and keep on not paying people overtime. if i wanted to get the pensions i'm owed i'd have to hire a lawyer and take the case in a civil suit, which would probably cost me more than they owe me

Reminds me of a talk I just had with my sister, she works in NAV and very seriously wants to quit. It's essentially because just now they had the one person at work turn up sick and it's hosed over everything because they had no buffer really. Everyone is now overworked and can't really spend the time they should on the cases/people they are tasked with, which means that mistakes get made, terrible mistakes, because these are decisions that impact whether or not something is able to afford rent or food for a month and this is happening because the people working these cases don't really have the time alloted to make doubly sure they're not loving up.

Essentially it sounds like they'd been saving money by having the least amount of full-time employees they could have and still have an agreeable workload that allowed them to do their job properly, however there has been no accounting for a buffer to deal with upsets like illness and the like, so just one case of long-term illness is enough to push everything over the edge, which is now having an adverse effect on workplace morale as well as a detrimental effect on the lives of the people depending on them actually being able to do their job. So my sister wants to quit and there's likely gonna be more people falling ill at that office, and that's even before you begin accounting for the corona.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Randarkman posted:

Reminds me of a talk I just had with my sister, she works in NAV and very seriously wants to quit. It's essentially because just now they had the one person at work turn up sick and it's hosed over everything because they had no buffer really. Everyone is now overworked and can't really spend the time they should on the cases/people they are tasked with, which means that mistakes get made, terrible mistakes, because these are decisions that impact whether or not something is able to afford rent or food for a month and this is happening because the people working these cases don't really have the time alloted to make doubly sure they're not loving up.

Essentially it sounds like they'd been saving money by having the least amount of full-time employees they could have and still have an agreeable workload that allowed them to do their job properly, however there has been no accounting for a buffer to deal with upsets like illness and the like, so just one case of long-term illness is enough to push everything over the edge, which is now having an adverse effect on workplace morale as well as a detrimental effect on the lives of the people depending on them actually being able to do their job. So my sister wants to quit and there's likely gonna be more people falling ill at that office, and that's even before you begin accounting for the corona.

yeah, ABE-reform was a stroke of genius by the government. hide it behind a wooly mandate to make poo poo run better and economise, make it boring enough that our idiot journalists won't report much on it, and just completely choke out the civil service. you simultaneously starve the beast, buy yourself some much-needed economic space and the only people you piss off are public employees who don't vote for you anyway, everyone who sees these services fail get pissed off at "the government" and become susceptible to further cuts...

Kamrat
Nov 27, 2012

Thanks for playing Alone in the dark 2.

Now please fuck off
You'd think people would see what's going on and vote with what actually fixes the problem (more money to public services) but that's not the world we live in sadly

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Welp, Danish PM just closed down the country.
I ain't leaving home for the next many weeks, so gotta find out how online deliveries work.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

Nice piece of fish posted:

those sausages that come in a freaking can

Hell yes, bullens pilsner korv. I too enjoy sausages made only of pig brain, fat and innards. They're delightfully medieval.

Gedt
Oct 3, 2007

evil_bunnY posted:

Ask roomie who's gonna feed them for 14 days when they're ordered to self isolate. JFC 2 weeks of long-keeping food isn't the worst

Yes hello, roomie here. I will?

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012

Gedt posted:

Yes hello, roomie here. I will?

Hello roomie, we can do on Sunday and go to ICA Maxi, pay requisite cat taxes as we’ve upset this thread

Katt
Nov 14, 2017

So it's airborne now? You're telling me all men started washing their hands for nothing?

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

We were played.

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teen witch
Oct 9, 2012
Train to work was barren, colleagues trains were sparse. I work on Drottningg. so I’m in the epicenter of tourist hell - let’s see how it’ll look today.

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