|
yes hun I get that you were just trying to be funny like Eric Cartman but 2/3 of my people got murdered by people making the same jokes and "chutzpah" is actually a word from a beautiful language that's currently on life support because of that same event so it's also not funny when you do "banker" accent and use it yes you can still say tush no it's not the same why is this hard to understand
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 18:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 06:39 |
|
|
waffleman posted:Yeah for real... Like if you find it too tedious to explain poo poo maybe just don't post about it rather than being an rear end in a top hat to someone who was earnestly trying to learn. it's not just their posts, it's their lives, which are at continual hightened risk from people who refuse them empathy, as you are now doing
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 18:36
|
|
|
Samovar posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1244186031752175616 https://twitter.com/stavvers/status/1244214001527119872 
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 18:37
|
|
|
PizzaProwler posted:I guess I shouldn't be surprised that calm discussion is no longer encouraged.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 18:38
|
|
|
"why can't all these people whose worth society is constantly trying to degrade show me the respect society has told me i deserve? is it so hard for them to show a little consideration? what's gotten them so sensitive?" you'd think that level of hypocrisy would burn the tongue when spoken
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 18:39
|
|
|
Antigravitas posted:So it's basically personal double entry accounting for the pre-digital age? That is indeed useful. The idea was that you'd know if the account was overdrawn and would stop writing checks. If you waited for the monthly statement to see how much you had left, you could theoretically be writing checks that you didn't have the money for. But yeah, now that banks log your purchases online immediately, it's kind of a moot point. It's a weird thing for Boomers to get hung up on. I think I've written like 2 or 3 checks in the past year, and that was because the handyman/junk removers couldn't get Square to work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 18:53
|
|
|
Mak0rz posted:I no joke encountered a TERF type on Twitter who used the terms "impregnator" and "gestator" instead. That's super gross. I apologize if the terms I used were crass as well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:16
|
|
|
I read that "thought exercise" and rolled my eyes at it. It may be genuine and coming from a well meaning place, but I'll never care enough to ask because I've seen that exact setup a thousand times already from terfs and other concern trolling dickheads trying to debate my existence. Google is just a tab away.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:24
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/dwdavison/status/1244297596128178182?s=21
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:37
|
|
|
I like getting information from actual people and not a search engine sometimes. Are y'all seriously dogpiling on someone for asking questions about trans people?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
How do we have this exact same loving derail every month?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:42
|
|
|
Yup, And dunking on TERFs is easy mode. I mean its fine and all but it seems like 75% of the thread lately.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:44
|
|
|
Field Mousepad posted:I like getting information from actual people and not a search engine sometimes. The problem is that a lot of people ask "innocent questions" that they know perfectly well the answer to, in an attempt to set up a line of "reasoning" which is TERF-y or chuddy as gently caress, and sadly like 90% of the time when this happens, we get the usual "gently caress off, TERF" and half the readers go "but it was an innocent question!" and then the original poster returns to reveal that beneath the mask was, indeed, a TERF. So rude as it may seem, this is sadly the correct response most of the time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
Although if you do know how to balance a checkbook, you have mastery of about 90% of the skills for an entry level accounting job, the rest is learning Quickbooks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:19
|
|
|
Pustulio posted:Although if you do know how to balance a checkbook, you have mastery of about 90% of the skills for an entry level accounting job, the rest is learning Quickbooks. Sorry it's 2020, all entry level positions want 5 years experience and a college degree
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:20
|
|
|
Quickbooks is also one of those software packages that seemingly never got enough competition, so the experience of using it is just godawful. Want to run a search query? Why I’m sure just typing in the word and pressing enter will work. Hahahahahahaha no.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:22
|
|
|
As someone who has said/asked lovely things in the past unknowingly out of ignorance: When you ask or say anything, no matter how seemingly innocent, about or to members of oppressed groups, you absolutely need to prepare for the possibility of it not being so innocent and even causing offense. And in that situation the best thing you can do is apologize, learn from it, move on, and don't do it again. Responding with indignation just makes you look like an even bigger rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
This whole thing reminds me of a math teacher I had in high school that got super mad if students didn't understand something right away. Lots of people basically stopped asking questions and then he got more mad when we did poorly on tests. The real IoSM are the users we meet along the way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:45
|
|
|
Antigravitas posted:So it's basically personal double entry accounting for the pre-digital age? That is indeed useful. Exactly, which is why the boomer fixation on it is hilarious and sad. They have no idea what useful skill is inherent to balancing a checkbook, so they can't extrapolate it out to a different thing. Maintaining a household budget uses double entry accounting and that's still a relevant skill. If only boomers hadn't spent years using 'learn how to budget' to mean 'stop spending your money on avocado toast.' Also, speaking as a trans poster, the only think more annoying that an 'I don't know anything about trans people, but...' question is when a bunch of non-trans goons pile in to argue over whether I should be tired or offended by that kind of question. Dixville, your thought exercise is something radical feminist and queer theory have tossed around for decades now. If you have a genuine interest in the subject, come over to the trans thread in
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:45
|
|
|
Field Mousepad posted:I like getting information from actual people and not a search engine sometimes. That's nice. Most of us don't like being used like a search engine, when we're constantly defending our existence as it is from strangers doing that "well i thought i'd just go to the source instead of google" poo poo just to lay down their sick terf logic burns in the next breath. It's loving exhausting. How would you like it? We're dog-piling someone for having a "thought exercise" about our existence while using terfy words like "transgenderism".
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:49
|
|
|
d3lness posted:This whole thing reminds me of a math teacher I had in high school that got super mad if students didn't understand something right away. Lots of people basically stopped asking questions and then he got more mad when we did poorly on tests. The thing that sticks with me more than anything else from all of high school was my 10th grade geometry teacher telling everyone that if we were getting a C or lower in his class to not even bother going to college. That was ballpark 15 years ago and him telling me I'm not good enough to accomplish anything still sticks with me. Apparently he's a junior high principal now at a different school district
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:51
|
|
|
d3lness posted:This whole thing reminds me of a math teacher I had in high school that got super mad if students didn't understand something right away. Lots of people basically stopped asking questions and then he got more mad when we did poorly on tests. that would certainly be a relevant comparison if this was a classroom and the question directed to a teacher there are literal classes you can take for this, with great professors. they're almost entirely online for the time being, even. however this forums thread is not that and you have just literally done the "minorities' job is to teach me how to not be a dick" thing
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:51
|
|
|
I guess the the thing I’m wondering is that if someone really is coming from a place of ignorance and not bad faith, is google actually going to get them the right information or is it—like how YouTube’s algorithm ends up promoting alt-right bullshit—just going to direct them to TERF misinformation?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:01
|
|
|
Going with content written by actual trans people would be a good (but not imperfect) start in weeding out the terf and nazi poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:03
|
|
|
PizzaProwler posted:Nice job alienating someone who dares to try to come to an understanding about something less familiar to them. nice job (1) declaring that my post alienated somebody without them saying anything about it, you fuckin' psychic and (2) defending a terfy thought exercise about how trans people could be eliminated if people were just nicer to butches (i'm a feminine man, not a masculine woman, and all attempts to say "society could just be more accepting of masculine women and feminine men and then trans people wouldn't have to exist! which would be great because everyone knows trans peoples' lives and existences are nothing but suffering! i'm looking to HELP those people by making them unnecessary!" are both stupid and harmful in ways that would, i think, eventually become clear to anyone who actually.... talked to people and TRIED TO UNDERSTAND instead of treating it as a philosophical thought exercise they should post in public
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:04
|
|
|
Six-Of-Hearts posted:That's nice. Most of us don't like being used like a search engine, when we're constantly defending our existence as it is from strangers doing that "well i thought i'd just go to the source instead of google" poo poo just to lay down their sick terf logic burns in the next breath. It's loving exhausting. How would you like it? Speaking as someone with a slightly nonstandard sexuality, if it comes up in conversation, I'd much rather that people who have questions about it just ask, rather than feel like they should be afraid to ever approach the subject. (Especially if what they're asking for is information about how NOT to offend.) As for questions turning into smug "logic" burns, I don't doubt that it happens, and I'm sure it's infuriating. But when's the last time it happened here in the IoSM thread? This thread showcases idiocy on all kinds of topics, and no one is going to know every topic inside and out. It's a very natural place for questions like "I don't get it, why is that offensive?" to come up, free of any ulterior motive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
Alternatively, just let the person know what they said or did was ignorant and rude. Then point them in the generally correct direction. Nobody asked you to give a seminar on the topic. Having a melty and then not explaining doesn't do anything productive. In any situation, if you call something out and aren't willing to offer a modicum of clarification then you have perpetuated the issue. Learning through mistakes is a big part of life. E: what the poster above me said d3lness has a new favorite as of 21:11 on Mar 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:09
|
|
|
d3lness posted:This whole thing reminds me of a math teacher I had in high school that got super mad if students didn't understand something right away. Lots of people basically stopped asking questions and then he got more mad when we did poorly on tests. This would make a better analogy if instead of a math teacher he was a random mathematician on the street, and if instead of being employed to teach you math his job was literally anything else, and if instead of asking him questions you were giving him unsolicited opinions about how irrational numbers don't exist and why it's okay to divide by zero.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:13
|
|
|
d3lness posted:Alternatively, just let the person know what they said or did was ignorant and rude. Then point them in the generally correct direction. Nobody asked you to give a seminar on the topic. Having a melty and then not explaining doesn't do anything productive. In any situation, if you call something out and aren't willing to offer a modicum of clarification then you have perpetuated the issue. Learning through mistakes is a big part of life. Fuckin this. Pretty sure we're all on the same team here, don't be an rear end in a top hat because someone doesn't know everything about your situation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:30
|
|
|
Powered Descent posted:But when's the last time it happened here in the IoSM thread? There was a post earlier where someone complained this conversation seemed to happen every month, and I definitely remember it happening more than once. This is not a new conversation even for this thread. Every time it happens, someone gets real mad that someone else was annoyed at their thought exercise or whatever. If I'm not mistaken, the last time it happened was full of bad faith "well I just asked to avoid offending you, but when you're angry at me, I want to offend you!" crap. Like man, I'm fairly cis and I'm sick of it, I can't imagine how sick they are of it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:30
|
|
|
d3lness posted:Alternatively, just let the person know what they said or did was ignorant and rude. Then point them in the generally correct direction. Nobody asked you to give a seminar on the topic. Having a melty and then not explaining doesn't do anything productive. In any situation, if you call something out and aren't willing to offer a modicum of clarification then you have perpetuated the issue. Learning through mistakes is a big part of life. There are resources and threads specifically for education on minority topics. Minorities do not exist as a living classroom about their oppression.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:33
|
|
|
Give us space to be people before defining us by our queerness.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
So just to replay the order of events on the previous page, someone did a thought experiment, other people immediately pointed out what was wrong with it and why, the OP acknowledged them in a reply, and only then did people chime in to tell OP they were being offensive. Is this not what the "please take time to educate me" folks are asking for? What more would you have wanted out of the exchange?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:37
|
|
|
Mak0rz posted:As someone who has said/asked lovely things in the past unknowingly out of ignorance: When you ask or say anything, no matter how seemingly innocent, about or to members of oppressed groups, you absolutely need to prepare for the possibility of it not being so innocent and even causing offense. I think this is the best way to take it. If you are genuine and well-meaning, you have to be genuine and well-meaning enough to recognize that your actions can be construed as negative or, even, just be negative to people in a different frame of reference. Use it as a moment to learn, grow and move on. Don't be a try to be the TRUE victim by saying "Well, I certainly won't be an ally now!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:40
|
|
|
 I’m the shocked reaction emoji
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:40
|
|
|
Powered Descent posted:Speaking as someone with a slightly nonstandard sexuality, if it comes up in conversation, I'd much rather that people who have questions about it just ask, rather than feel like they should be afraid to ever approach the subject. (Especially if what they're asking for is information about how NOT to offend.) That's nice. I'm glad you don't mind fielding questions from strangers. Powered Descent posted:As for questions turning into smug "logic" burns, I don't doubt that it happens, and I'm sure it's infuriating. But when's the last time it happened here in the IoSM thread? This thread showcases idiocy on all kinds of topics, and no one is going to know every topic inside and out. It's a very natural place for questions like "I don't get it, why is that offensive?" to come up, free of any ulterior motive. Field Mousepad posted:Fuckin this. Pretty sure we're all on the same team here, don't be an rear end in a top hat because someone doesn't know everything about your situation. There was a pretty big dust-up on these here forums about transphobia what, 2 months ago? I'm not assuming anyone is on the same side or coming from a place of genuine good intentions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:41
|
|
|
Thought experiments should be a crime
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:43
|
|
|
Much like your posting 
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:44
|
|
|
christmas boots posted:I guess the the thing I’m wondering is that if someone really is coming from a place of ignorance and not bad faith, is google actually going to get them the right information or is it—like how YouTube’s algorithm ends up promoting alt-right bullshit—just going to direct them to TERF misinformation? It's a tightrope, Spud. A tightrope. Six-Of-Hearts posted:
Unregardless, because I need to distract myself from the neighbor trying to sing in Mariah Carey's range and also because I'm an idiot, I will answer some questions. Dixville posted:Like, do you reaaallllyyy need to change your genitals or hormones?  Listen, I tried every possible variation—being non-conforming, nonbinary, effeminate, not that guy but still a guy, just doing my thing maaaaaan—to avoid having to admit it even to myself first and then undergo all the weird and awkward and uncomfortable bits involved in a social and medical transition, partially because I didn't have a clear idea of how much more aligned I am with that hormonal profile than the previous one and the extent of the non-visible effects. In keeping with my fondness for weird analogies, I'll describe it as taking off a thong made out of felt and slipping on sone nice comfy sweatpants. I mean, it's totally a thing entirely divorced from societal pressures quote:Well, sure, if that's what you really want. quote:But how much of that desire is just to please society and not just yourself? Although there are added aspects of not not wanting to be beaten up or murdered by someone with a guilty boner, hassled on the bus, and, in locales where informed consent is not A Thing, not getting gatekept right the gently caress into the black market. On a personal level applicable to almost no one else, the answer is: not much. I'm a futchy trashbag and if people don't like it I have a brick in my purse. quote:Would transgenderism even be needed?  Secondly, your question presupposes that the need exists and isn't like just a thing that happens for reasons we're not entirely sure of other than an very Byzantine interactions of gene expression and gestational factors and hormones and, yes, cultural influences, because we live in a society. Ellie Crabcakes has a new favorite as of 22:04 on Mar 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 06:39 |
|
|
If anyone wants a cis person's primer to how and why Trans issues are important I'd suggest looking up Dan Cummin's Timesuck podcast on the "transgender debate" specifically because it features a lovely and articulate transwoman taking a large chunk out of her day to explain all the poo poo that gets brought up once a month in this thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 21:58
|
|
