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Deptfordx posted:Welp, did our first all skype session tonight. Went really well. Even had a guy who hasn't played with us for a decade. In fact it was pretty much the same group as when I was in my 20's so the nostalgia value was high. Had six players which is something I've not had for I don't remember it's been so long, but decent internet kept the whole thing rolling. Yeah when a bunch of my friends started moving further away that's how we wound up gaming for a bit. It also lets you do stuff like potentially have a weeknight game. Setting aside 2-3 hours to play a game is much easier when it's from home and you don't need to have a dedicated play space. As I got my quarantine game going I was expecting it to be a weeknight thing, but 2 or 3 of the players wanted it to be Saturday or Friday nights, which were impossible days to dedicate to nerd games in our 20's, but here we are now.
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Apr 1, 2020 00:01
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Thinking of doing a weekend game myself. We too are old and past it now.
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Apr 1, 2020 00:26
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Thank you for the information regarding map content overall! This was for more of a general world map as opposed to a hex map, though tools for that are useful to know about. Perhaps it's a silly point but whilst I really like the 'newer' look Inkarnate has, I have a slight bias toward programs which are one time purchases as opposed to tiered versions tied to subscriptions.
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Apr 1, 2020 00:28
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food court bailiff posted:I'm sick of it collecting dust on my shelf and have heard it has decent enough solo play, does anyone have any thoughts on the Fallout board game? I might sit down with it tonight, throw on some Ink Spots and Andrews Sisters tunes, and roll some weird FFG dice. It's one of the few games that's properly enjoyable solo due to the hidden map and branching quest system. It's pretty challenging, too.
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Apr 1, 2020 00:47
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SkySteak posted:Thank you for the information regarding map content overall! This was for more of a general world map as opposed to a hex map, though tools for that are useful to know about. Perhaps it's a silly point but whilst I really like the 'newer' look Inkarnate has, I have a slight bias toward programs which are one time purchases as opposed to tiered versions tied to subscriptions. If you prefer the look of Inkarnate, you're in a tough spot, because Inkarnate is subscription pricing, whereas $20 gets you Wonderdraft for life.
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Apr 1, 2020 01:13
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Covok posted:Did anyone hack Tenra Bansho Zero to keep the setting and use less of a clunky system? Okay, I'll take the bait. What exactly do you believe is clunky about TBZ?
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Apr 1, 2020 03:59
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SkySteak posted:Thank you for the information regarding map content overall! This was for more of a general world map as opposed to a hex map, though tools for that are useful to know about. Perhaps it's a silly point but whilst I really like the 'newer' look Inkarnate has, I have a slight bias toward programs which are one time purchases as opposed to tiered versions tied to subscriptions. As was said, $30 gets you WonderDraft forever. I will note however that because of the way you can import so many custom assets into WonderDraft, you can end up with some amazing stuff. You can't go wrong with either, honestly. But it's good to have the options for those that don't like subs.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:01
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Anybody got any tips for running a game where the players are split over two locations? Everyone in person at the table is easy. Everyone in their own location with their own computer communicating via Discord/Zoom/whatever seems straightforward also. But where you have two people in one house and two people in another house I can see potential difficulties. It'll be me GMing for three players - my girlfriend who is with me, and my sister and her boyfriend who are in different city. There's obviously the technical challenge of audio feedback if we have multiple computers in the same room, but conversely it's hard to share computers -especially me with my gf as I will have all my GM details on mine. Then there's the social element where my sister and her bf could inadvertently start having conversations with each other in person that my gf can't follow or join in so easily remotely and leave her feeling left out. Is the solution for each of us to just use our own computers in different rooms regardless of whether we are together in person or not? Which seems dumb, deliberately distancing yourselves from other players, but may be best. Just wondering if anyone has experience with a game like this and if that is what they ended up doing.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:57
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I did exactly this at the weekend, 5 people in 3 households (2+2+1, with each pair in the same room together but on separate computers). We had a little audio feedback to start but then told the offending player to plug in their headphones instead of using speakers and it was fine. So, make sure everybody has and uses headphones. We didn't have any social problems either that I noticed - obviously when we took breaks we didn't get as much chatter as you'd have in a table game, since at least one player was away from the mic, but it didn't end up with extended periods of someone getting ignored or anything. It's probably a good idea to work a half hour or so into the start of the timetable for sorting any other audio issues, we did have some players much quieter than others at the start and had to spend a little time fiddling with relative mic levels in Discord so everyone was around the same volume - but if you've played online at all before you'll be used to that.
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Apr 1, 2020 17:00
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Reading through Heart, I realized... I don't always agree with Jay Iles' layout and design choices, but I think any game they're involved in is going to get my money going forward. It's an easy litmus test, and their taste in projects to join seems top notch.
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Apr 1, 2020 17:30
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grassy gnoll posted:Okay, I'll take the bait. Character creation is a goddamn mess, regardless of the method you use. Either's its a pregen, you mix together a bunch of archetypes which is still messy, or you masochistically use the pointbuy system. The Karma system is redunkolous. There is a reason the book admits it got a reputation as "Karma Taxes" because it is like doing your taxes. Lastly, its a system that wants to do scene vignettes to mimic kabuki theater and yet it still engages with everything as a traditional RPG. The only real diversion being that Aki points can be rewarded by other players. Otherwise, it misses out on a lot of potential that could be obtained by messing with the traditional setup to better mimic a mix of anime and Kabuki theater.
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Apr 1, 2020 18:22
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tanglewood1420 posted:Is the solution for each of us to just use our own computers in different rooms regardless of whether we are together in person or not? Which seems dumb, deliberately distancing yourselves from other players, but may be best. Just wondering if anyone has experience with a game like this and if that is what they ended up doing. Just buy a Jabra or similar audioconferencing equipment and have your girlfriend run the Discord/Teams/Zoom/whatever call that all four of you connect to, then you mute your own mic and audio.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:22
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TK_Nyarlathotep posted:There isn't HORRIBLY much to tell that wasn't in the initial post - basically he got it in his head that the Vampire LARP was taking players away from his Houses of the Blooded LARP (it wasn't) and snapped when he found a toy spider ring in a convention hall (ask any former AEG staffer, Wick is VIOLENTLY arachnophobic). He took himself and his tough guy buddies to the building where the Vampires were, they had a verbal tussle that ended with a flipped table and a torn banner, then Wick, his entourage, and the Vampire LARPers all left the con for the weekend. The next time I heard from the con, the ENTIRE ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE had been rearranged and for the first time in like 4-5 years, Wick wasn't on the guest list. Furthermore, none of the "new" managers (read: old con staff who got a promotion) had anything nice to say about him. It was highly bizarre.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:23
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CitizenKeen posted:Reading through Heart, I realized... Yeah, I feel the same way. The Lancer layout really didn’t do it for me, but my wallet and shelf always have room for a Jay Iles project.
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Apr 1, 2020 20:08
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I've done two or more people in the same room, and a couple on skype before. We found it was fine if you used a decent quality microphone in the middle of the group.
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Apr 1, 2020 20:29
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tanglewood1420 posted:Anybody got any tips for running a game where the players are split over two locations? As long as everyone is on their own headset there shouldn't be any issues (besides the basic ones like getting everybody to the same volume and such, as mentioned). People would probably even be fine using their stock phone headphone/mic deals, though I've found that airPods are a bit garbage for mic quality.
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Apr 1, 2020 20:52
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cowboy
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Halloween Jack posted:Do I sound jaded if I say I'm not surprised? I always thought that he must have made up half of the exploits he talks about in his books, because it would have eventually ended in violence.
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Apr 1, 2020 21:11
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Also, I'd love in five years to get a Spire: Double Weird Edition revision with layout by Iles and the original classes revamped with the Major-into-Minor-Upgrade powers, and other revised sweetness. I have room for two Spires on my shelf.
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Apr 1, 2020 21:13
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Thanks for the advice guys, I'll ask everyone to make sure they have headphones/headsets and hopefully all will be good.
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Apr 1, 2020 21:44
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The one thing that stood out to me about Spire was how, very early in the book, the third paragraph of "what is the society like?" section goes into detail about how the drow lay eggs.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:07
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Covok posted:Character creation is a goddamn mess, regardless of the method you use. Either's its a pregen, you mix together a bunch of archetypes which is still messy, or you masochistically use the pointbuy system. I can understand why you would be skeptical of the statement I'm about to make, but - I'm not trying to poo poo on you, but I don't comprehend what you're tripping on. Archetypes are designed to be picked up and used wholesale for rapid character generation, like picking a playbook in a PbtA game. If you double-up on a skill you swap it for something of equivalent rank. You shouldn't be doubling up on anything else if you're picking by archetypes. A la carte chargen is going to be more complex. Like, it's point buy. It has set values for each cost, but if you want that level of fidelity you're going to have to put more time into it. I don't know how you would customized generation where you're manually setting each value on a character sheet, but simple. You can redeem your aiki chits for a small boost or to buy character attributes. If you buy character attributes, your karma goes up. 108 karma means you auto-lose the game, so don't go over 107. You can reduce karma at the end of a scene by burning a Fate, which come in values of 0, 10, 30, and 70 karma reduced for ranks 2, 3, 4, and 5 Fates, in that order. TBZ is explicitly designed for one-shots and fast play. You should be highlighting the important decision moments of a scene, and then power-talking the rest of it. I don't follow your issue here, and I'm not sure what anime has to do with how the game plays. Again, this isn't a personal attack. But to my eye, TBZ is one of the most elegant holistic systems I've played, so I'm absolutely bamboozled by your concerns. The flip side of that is that I like the game quite a bit, and if there's something I can do to Sherpa you over some rough spots, I'm happy to do so.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:23
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grassy gnoll posted:TBZ is explicitly designed for one-shots and fast play. You should be highlighting the important decision moments of a scene, and then power-talking the rest of it. I don't follow your issue here, and I'm not sure what anime has to do with how the game plays. i agree with everything you say but this, i feel like the karma systyem only really shines when you have a longer playthrough so you can chase or sublimate desires organically
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Apr 2, 2020 04:11
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Covok posted:\The Karma system is redunkolous. There is a reason the book admits it got a reputation as "Karma Taxes" because it is like doing your taxes. The Karma system is the best part of TBZ. You do your Karma Taxes (Which is adding together two digit numbers, it is not onerous) and every few sessions the game says, "Right, it's time to do a character development or retire the character, your choice." And so players have their PCs change and develop over time, instead of what they do in most RPGs which is stay basically the same but fighting bigger monsters maybe. Karma System for president 2020.
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Apr 2, 2020 05:07
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Elfgames posted:i agree with everything you say but this, i feel like the karma systyem only really shines when you have a longer playthrough so you can chase or sublimate desires organically In practice, I totally agree with you and I think the speedrun one-shot style the system claims it's designed for is how a crazy person would play an RPG. But approaching the system in good faith kinda requires accepting its insane premise, and dismissing Covok's concerns with "well yeah, but just don't do the thing you're explicitly told to do" isn't cool. Like, TBZ does have flaws, and they mostly reside in some of the subsystems where it's really easy to accidentally break things and become either useless or godlike entirely by accident. But the core systems are absurdly elegant in how they flow together, and I want to evangelize for it as much as possible.
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Apr 2, 2020 14:34
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Makes me think of Double Cross. I really like it, but I can't look at character options in that game and immediately know if they're good or bad or overpowered or useless, like I can with D&D 3e/4e.
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Apr 2, 2020 14:43
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Halloween Jack posted:Makes me think of Double Cross. I really like it, but I can't look at character options in that game and immediately know if they're good or bad or overpowered or useless, like I can with D&D 3e/4e. It took me running like two entire long campaigns before I could. Even now if I don't play for a few months, I need to look back over everything for a moment to remember a few things. Thankfully, most of the abilities are fairly balanced so most of the trouble is more divining what the hell will make your PC a powerful anime superhero rather than worrying about picking trap options. The issue is usually more a lack of synergy. Or trying to do too many things with one PC and spreading yourself too thin instead of remembering this is a team supers adventure and so it's okay for you to mainly have a few things you focus on and leave other roles to other PCs.
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Apr 2, 2020 16:39
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Mystic Mongol posted:And so players have their PCs change and develop over time, instead of what they do in most RPGs which is stay basically the same but fighting bigger monsters maybe.
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Apr 2, 2020 17:20
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grassy gnoll posted:I can understand why you would be skeptical of the statement I'm about to make, but - I'm not trying to poo poo on you, but I don't comprehend what you're tripping on. I take no offense to any of your statements. My feeling is that for a game meant to be played in a single 6 hour session, there is a lot of preamble and rules. It just feels that for something that is supposed to be disposable that there is too much investment in setup. Now, I get this is a difference in American vs Japanese TRPGs. Pregens vs Constructed Chargen vs Freeform Chargen is a tired-and-true method in the Japanese TRPG scene. I understand Japan does still do the ol' "take a character from game-to-game" mentality that died in America in the mid 1980s. Not that I'm criticizing, mind you. I get why that mentality survived since their game systems don't suffer from the "Monty hall vs Ebeneezer Scrounge" DM issues that Americans RPGs do. It just feels weird to me. I feel like, you could accomplish everything with less preamble. That the chargen system and rules space used for making characters could be streamlined or even completely removed and still have the same affect. I felt the same way about Double Cross. If the game is not meant to be played for so long, why have such a potentially in-depth character system? Once again, I understand: pre-generated characters and constructed characters are a thing. There are many games that are made to be played for years and have less preamble. Furthermore, what does all of this add to the experience? What does all the rules for, let's say, the Kijin cybernetics add to the story of Kabuki Theater? Why do they all need such detailed stats? Why do we need so many rules for Meikyo Armors, Great Armors, and Kimenkyo Armors? What does this add to the experience that could not be solved some other way? Normally, I wouldn't care if it was made for long-term play because that would make sense as you need such things to keep things spicy. But something only meant to be played in 6 hours? Do you need all this for such an experience? Maybe it's a mindset thing, of course. I'm a minimalist by nature. I look at this rules space being used and say "does it need to be so dense?" I say "can it compacted? What is lost? Does it strength or hurt it to lose these elements?" I think the fact we got Zero edition also strains this issue for me. It's very obvious to me that Zero editions has numerous supplements rolled into it. It's obvious that the original release of Tenra Bansho did not have some of these things. I will bet the Kimenkyo's were a later addition when players did not want to have to play children to play mechas. Kugustu seem to me as an obvious supplement. Samurai seem like they were probably core. Ayakashi were definitely a supplement or later release. You get the picture. Having it all you hit you at once -- a complete gameline made over a decade summarized in two large tomes -- probably affects the experience since it can be overload. I want to be clear, I have never actually played the game despite many attempts to get people to play. This could color my opinion since everything I've seen is theortical. I guess I just look at the AWESOME setting and then look at the 400 page rulebook and say "is this really neccesary for a 6 hour game?" I know we don't need all of it, but still?
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Apr 2, 2020 18:17
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It's all good. But since we we're ultimately arguing about elfgames on the internet, I figured I should be entirely clear about the stakes and personal investment involved here. You're not wrong! I would love to see a third edition of TBZ with modern influences and a lot of the cruft stripped out. I suspect the answer to "why is this so complicated" is "because we didn't know better" - the original Tenra is from 1998, and TBZ came out in 2000. That's contemporaneous with the original release of D&D 3. Even the English localization is nearly a decade old at this point.
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Apr 2, 2020 22:58
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grassy gnoll posted:It's all good. But since we we're ultimately arguing about elfgames on the internet, I figured I should be entirely clear about the stakes and personal investment involved here. Don't get me wrong. I love the setting. I love it! It's the most "Japanese" fantasy setting I've ever seen. It oozes elements that could only come from Japan. Its setting is steeped in the trappings and themes of Sengoku era fiction. The warring states era nihilism about endless war and human suffering. However, it's all packaged in a fantastical setting that includes all the classic tropes such as a super Samurai, magic Ninja, giant robots, etc. The fantasy elements feel like trying to fictionalize real life situation. Like the Kugutsu are clearly a fictionalizing of the dehumanization that women experienced in medieval Japan. The only thing that sticks out is how the Oni seem to be visually inspired by Native Americans and not by Japan's Ainu, who would be their real life equivalent. It makes such an original setting that is so engrossing. If you EVER have an open spot, I'd gladly play. I so want to play this setting. However, the system scares people away and I just wish it was something easier to accept. When you say its a one-shot and you pull out a tome, people change their tune. Covok fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 00:32
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Covok posted:The only thing that sticks out is how the Oni seem to be visually inspired by Native Americans and not by Japan's Ainu, who would be their real life equivalent. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Apr 3, 2020 01:44
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Nah, Doresh went into that a little in their F&F of the game.
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Apr 3, 2020 02:35
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Alaois posted:uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh The Ainu are the native people that Japan attempted to eradicate and continue to oppress when the ancestors of modern Japanese people came over from what is assumed by some to be ancient China. Native people oppressed by colonization is a sadly common story such as Native Americans in the Americas and the aboriginal of Australia. It just that if you're doing one set in Japan, it'd make the most sense to use the Ainu as the template. Well, there were also another group that were conquered when Japan was colonized in ancient times but that group was completely eradicated and/or assimilated. We only know they exist because of myths which first made them out to be foxes and then later as giant spiders as a method of dehumanizing them.
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Apr 3, 2020 03:16
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Covok posted:The Ainu are the native people that Japan attempted to eradicate and continue to oppress when the ancestors of modern Japanese people came over from what is assumed by some to be ancient China. Native people oppressed by colonization is a sadly common story such as Native Americans in the Americas and the aboriginal of Australia. It just that if you're doing one set in Japan, it'd make the most sense to use the Ainu as the template. i know who the ainu are. the oni in tbz are a pastiche of ainu, ryukyuan (forgot about them, didn't you) and native american. the native american aesthetic elements are basically trojan horsing the allegory of japanese treatment of ainu and ryukyuans to the japanese audience of the game. Alaois fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 03:36
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Alaois posted:i know who the ainu are. the oni in tbz are a pastiche of ainu, ryukyuan (forgot about them, didn't you) and native american. the native american aesthetic elements are basically trojan horsing the allegory of japanese treatment of ainu and ryukyuans to the japanese audience of the game. I saw the original version. I didn't mean to offend or anything. I have a habit of overexplaining things. My boyfriend gets frustrated about it often. It's not meant to belittle or anything.
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Apr 3, 2020 03:44
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Covok posted:The Ainu are the native people that Japan attempted to eradicate and continue to oppress when the ancestors of modern Japanese people came over from what is assumed by some to be ancient China. Native people oppressed by colonization is a sadly common story such as Native Americans in the Americas and the aboriginal of Australia. It just that if you're doing one set in Japan, it'd make the most sense to use the Ainu as the template. The Wajin Japanese didn't come and colonize the Ainu from China, though. The Yayoi people immigrated to Japan, then lived with the native Jōmon peoples for over thousand years, then started colonization of Ainu territories primarily in the Edo period and especially after 1799 when Japan claimed northern Hokkaido.
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Apr 3, 2020 03:58
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LatwPIAT posted:The Wajin Japanese didn't come to and colonize the Ainu from China, though. The Yayoi people immigrated to Japan, then lived with the native Jōmon peoples for over thousand years, then started colonization of Ainu territories primarily in the Edo period and especially after 1799 when Japan claimed northern Hokkaido. Oh really? I didn't know that. Then where did they come from? China is the largest and closest landmass. I always thought they just came from there.
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Apr 3, 2020 04:01
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Covok posted:Oh really? I didn't know that. Then where did they come from? China is the largest and closest landmass. I always thought they just came from there. They did come from China (or Korea) according to the dominant theory, but not to Ainu lands. They arrived in, I think Kyushu and Honshu in 300 BCE - 300 CE, and then faffed about for a thousand years homogenizing with the Jōmon peoples and forming the basis for the modern-day Wajin/Yamato Japan. But it was only at this point, when they were already established as one of the Japanese peoples on the Japanese islands, that they came into contact with the Ainu and later colonized them.
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Apr 3, 2020 04:22
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Covok posted:Oh really? I didn't know that. Then where did they come from? China is the largest and closest landmass. I always thought they just came from there. The archaeology seems to be muddied and complicated from my limited understanding, but linguistically Korea would seem to be the natural spread. It's not a slam dunk and it's still debated, but Japanese is more likely connected to Korean (and then both to the larger Uralic-Altaic family, distantly) than anything else. Regardless, China had lots of effects on Japan, and really big chunks of South-Eastern Asia, for a long time, but if you speak even a hundred words of Japanese or Chinese you rapidly can tell they aren't actually related at all. It's just loan words and stuff. Also, you know, if you look at a map Korea is closer.
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Apr 3, 2020 04:50
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Covok posted:Oh really? I didn't know that. Then where did they come from? China is the largest and closest landmass. I always thought they just came from there. Well their assertion is the Waijin were a synthesis of Yayoi and Jomon peoples so they came from Japan and conquered the Ainu. The Yayoi may have actually just eradicated most of the Jomon. At any rate, the origin of the Yayoi is also of speculation but likely they came from northern China or the Korean peninsula.
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Apr 3, 2020 07:05
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