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zentigeist posted:This thread is getting N A S T Y Getting? This thread has been delusional and nasty ever since the previous election. Labour is dead in the water because people who want a right-winger will just vote Tories no matter how much you triangulate, and the public has little to no reason to trust Labour to implement any leftist ideals effectively and they've been justified in that for twenty years. You don't advance left wing causes by voting, that's not how it's ever worked. You take action so people know and trust you before an election ever takes place, and Labour as a whole... hasn't. Twisto's stance is rich given the way they have been acting all year though.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:15
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nice to see you're still around in other good news i just made an excellent bacon and egg sandwich and absolutely recommend the enconca carolina reaper sauce. by far the nicest of their main sauces and no hotter than them
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Apr 4, 2020 13:15
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Well what an absolute loving letdown. I've been pretty checked out of politics since the election disappointment. I guess things can always get worse
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Apr 4, 2020 13:16
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Seriously did all of the Corbynites in the party actually vote for Keir? Have they just collectively given up?
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Apr 4, 2020 13:17
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I've said my piece and I hope people will reflect on how they've acted. No quarter for libs
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Apr 4, 2020 13:17
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:Well what an absolute loving letdown. I've been pretty checked out of politics since the election disappointment. I guess things can always get worse Hope will always let you down, courage is where it's at. This - endlessmonotony posted:Labour is dead in the water because people who want a right-winger will just vote Tories no matter how much you triangulate, and the public has little to no reason to trust Labour to implement any leftist ideals effectively and they've been justified in that for twenty years. You don't advance left wing causes by voting, that's not how it's ever worked. You take action so people know and trust you before an election ever takes place, and Labour as a whole... hasn't. is about the best response stev posted:Seriously did all of the Corbynites in the party actually vote for Keir? Have they just collectively given up? Apparently
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Apr 4, 2020 13:18
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Jose posted:nice to see you're still around Yeah, how're you doing Jabby, man? Your life must be loving difficult right now
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Apr 4, 2020 13:18
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stev posted:Seriously did all of the Corbynites in the party actually vote for Keir? Have they just collectively given up? A lot of people who weren't fully socialists but more along the dem-soc/soc-dem lines who were on board with Corbyn and his policies and saw through the antisemitism bullshit got massively traumatised by the 2019 election, at least in my CLP.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:19
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stev posted:Seriously did all of the Corbynites in the party actually vote for Keir? Have they just collectively given up? https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1246381053473886208 Revenge of Yer Da.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:20
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Also not sure where this "Labour should refuse to work with the government" comes from, seems like a poo poo idea to me. Yes, it's obviously an attempt to make Labour share the blame once this is over. But refusing a request to help the government during a national crisis would look terrible. It would look, with some justification, like we were prioritising avoiding blame over saving lives. The damage to public opinion would be far worse. Plus, joining a government of national unity (if that ever happens) gives Starmer a chance to look more Prime Ministerial than the actual Prime Minister. And nowhere in the rules does it say because you signed up you can't backstab the Tories and try to blame everything on them before they do it to you, using your platform from inside government, or even leak the worst of the stuff you find out to the press. I dunno. I can see both sides, but I think a principled refusal to help is more toxic with the public than most people here realise.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:22
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speaking of the 2019 election, electing the member for st pancras to replace the member for islington north does seem likely to double down on the loss of the red wall and confirm Labour as the new party of the cities and hopefully the bigger suburbs all the more so if the party spends the next few years in the grip of constitutional struggle (which seems very likely tbqh)
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Apr 4, 2020 13:23
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https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1246387957575168001 Love the shamelessness of it all.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:25
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ronya posted:speaking of the 2019 election, electing the member for st pancras to replace the member for islington north does seem likely to double down on the loss of the red wall and confirm Labour as the new party of the cities and hopefully the bigger suburbs I agree, I definitely see Starmer appealing to suburbs with sensible middle class people - you know, people who thought Cameron and Osborne weren't that bad. No idea how he'll fare up north but if my experience with the 2017 and 2019 elections are anything to go by it'll depend entirely on the media.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:25
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Sanitary Naptime posted:Yeah there’s no hope of effective opposition from labour under starmer. I find it funny how suddenly this thread is concerned about Starmers skeletons while ignoring Corbyn's for 5 years.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:25
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endlessmonotony posted:Twisto's stance is rich given the way they have been acting all year though. ? I'm not being sarcastic here, I'd genuinely like to know where you think I've overstepped lines, because if I have I'd like an opportunity to make amends.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:26
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For NEC CLP reps the top 5 was Right/Right/Left/Left/Left https://labourlist.org/2020/04/corbynsceptics-sweep-the-board-in-labours-ruling-body-by-elections/quote:JOSAN, Gurinder Singh – 57,361 – ELECTED Momentum endorsed Townsend and Drennan. Jo Bird was on many left slates but was suspended then unsuspended due to antisemistism claims. In all you'd have to construct a loving flow chart to plot all the various left-endorsements https://labourlist.org/2020/02/labours-nec-by-elections-just-got-even-more-complicated/ This isn't just a self-own, this is on another level. A single shift in endorsement on twitter from one of the smaller leftist slates (~500 votes) could have put one of the Momentum candidates over the top.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:27
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Not So Fast posted:I find it funny how suddenly this thread is concerned about Starmers skeletons while ignoring Corbyn's for 5 years. Mostly pointing out that he has some and the press will dig them up when it's convinient for them. He won't get a pass unless he goes full Blair in which case.. What's the point of him or the Labour party?
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Apr 4, 2020 13:27
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I don't understand why the conservatives need a national unity government - they have the votes they need so what does labour being on board bring (other than the fact that they can share the blame)? And if there is no need why would you ever accept? Just say that now more than ever opposition scrutiny is required
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Apr 4, 2020 13:27
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Not So Fast posted:I find it funny how suddenly this thread is concerned about Starmers skeletons while ignoring Corbyn's for 5 years. The thread was willing to overlook Corbyn's flaws because he was the most left wing leader of the opposition since the 30s, if not ever. Duh
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Apr 4, 2020 13:28
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Someone called Corbyn the most disloyal backbencher. I don't recall him saying people shouldn't vote Labour. Plus someone saying Starmer has a huge job to turn around the party is laughable as the media will be on his side.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:29
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Barry Foster posted:Yeah, how're you doing Jabby, man? Your life must be loving difficult right now Haven't died of the 'rona yet, so that's pretty good. We're still relying on lovely plastic aprons and surgical masks to protect us though, so I wouldn't be surprised if the UK has pretty unfavourable numbers of healthcare worker deaths compared to other countries. Miftan posted:A lot of people who weren't fully socialists but more along the dem-soc/soc-dem lines who were on board with Corbyn and his policies and saw through the antisemitism bullshit got massively traumatised by the 2019 election, at least in my CLP. I think Momentum/Corbyn just picked a pretty poor candidate in RLB. Nothing against the woman, but she just doesn't bring the passion and it seemed a bit obvious she was chosen primarily for loyalty. Rayner or even McDonnell would have done better I think. bessantj posted:Someone called Corbyn the most disloyal backbencher. I don't recall him saying people shouldn't vote Labour. Plus someone saying Starmer has a huge job to turn around the party is laughable as the media will be on his side. The Sun are already calling him "the millionaire Sir Kier Starmer". He'll have the Guardian on his side at best.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:30
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bessantj posted:the media will be on his side. you mean like the Sun article literally minutes after he was elected pointing out he's a millionaire
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Apr 4, 2020 13:31
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Gonna be honest, the personal attacks on Azza are loving disgusting and making me reconsider my opinion of this thread. I don't agree with how they voted, but people are acting like Glinner in blackface has just popped in to do a reading from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. They're a good poster and as far as I can tell a good person, and posts like I'm honestly shocked at how loving awful the thread is today and the vitriol people are coming out with because someone voted for miliband 2.0.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:31
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Barry Foster posted:Hope will always let you down, courage is where it's at. This - You're a good lad  It takes courage just to leave the house these days, but I'll try my best.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:32
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No one can guarantee the press support for Starmer stretching any further than the status quo, but I'd argue he has the best chance of carrying the party to a win in the current environment.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:33
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I'm feeling very depressed by this, and depressed by my limited ability to react to it. Like, this is naked, unashamed hypocrisy. But pointing that out doesn't achieve anything - the powerful shits in power are gonna continue being shits. So much of this thread and associated lefty-media (Novara, Trashfuture, Citations Needed etc) is about how disingenuous and corrupt the political discourse is. And I can;t blame them/us, we're saturated in it, and criticising the discourse is both fun and important, but I feel like that's all we have, all we can do is call Nero out for fiddling, can't do anything about Rome burning. I feel so loving powerless.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:34
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Niric posted:I'm honestly shocked at how loving awful the thread is today and the vitriol people are coming out with because someone voted for miliband 2.0. A guy was called dumb for being dumb, settle down.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:37
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CancerCakes posted:I don't understand why the conservatives need a national unity government - they have the votes they need so what does labour being on board bring (other than the fact that they can share the blame)? They don't need one, it's just their least worst option. They know it will help confer legitimacy on Starmer's Labour after they spent so long trying to remove it from Corbyn. But they are desperate to avoid carrying the can for this gently caress up. And if they offer one, Labour's least worst option is to sign up and then heap blame on the Tories for their initial response prior to the outbreak hitting critical levels.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:37
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jabby posted:I think Momentum/Corbyn just picked a pretty poor candidate in RLB. Nothing against the woman, but she just doesn't bring the passion and it seemed a bit obvious she was chosen primarily for loyalty. Rayner or even McDonnell would have done better I think. John is too old, he was apparently talking about retiring after the 2015 parliament, but stuck around when Corbyn got the leadership, otherwise he'd likely have retired by now. Rayner said some pretty problematic stuff in the campaign, and I've not seen much indication of her economic positioning. Most bets were on Pidcock to be the heir apparent, but her losing her seat was a big surprise.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:37
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Gonna be honest, the personal attacks on Azza are loving disgusting and making me reconsider my opinion of this thread. I don't agree with how they voted, but people are acting like Glinner in blackface has just popped in to do a reading from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. They're a good poster and as far as I can tell a good person, and posts like I see where you’re coming from, but frankly coming out immediately after the result is announced and people are understandably very upset to casually say that you voted for it and actually this is great is loving lovely behaviour.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:38
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Maybe labour should stop being so bad at the politics, hmm? Have they considered that? If I was labour I would simply stop sucking and become good.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:39
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forkboy84 posted:https://twitter.com/EdRooksby/status/1246394114784010242?s=20 lol such transparent begging. she’s never even had a junior role above PPS, and asks to jump straight into shadow cabinet?
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Apr 4, 2020 13:41
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jabby posted:The Sun are already calling him "the millionaire Sir Kier Starmer". He'll have the Guardian on his side at best. Julio Cruz posted:you mean like the Sun article literally minutes after he was elected pointing out he's a millionaire It's not worth trying to get someone like Corbyn as leader of the Labour party is it? He'll fail 100% of the time. I guess it's about grassroots stuff trying to get people to realise what they need is someone like Corbyn and it doesn't matter what poo poo the papers say.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:41
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Comrade Fakename posted:I see where you’re coming from, but frankly coming out immediately after the result is announced and people are understandably very upset to casually say that you voted for it and actually this is great is loving lovely behaviour. And everyone who didn't is pathetic and deluded, let's not gloss over that gem
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Apr 4, 2020 13:41
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it’s so nice i put a table and chair in the stairwell that gets some sunlight
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Apr 4, 2020 13:43
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Niric posted:I'm honestly shocked at how loving awful the thread is today and the vitriol people are coming out with because someone voted for miliband 2.0. Yeah agreed. The pile-on on Azza has been particularly ugly.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:43
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mehall posted:John is too old, he was apparently talking about retiring after the 2015 parliament, but stuck around when Corbyn got the leadership, otherwise he'd likely have retired by now. Doesn't he also have lots of baggage from days of yore too? Don't think the establishment reaction against him would have been any less fierce. Cerv posted:lol such transparent begging. Doesn't this kind of headline normally result from being asked a leading question by the interviewer? I mean, if I was asked, I'd say yes, and I've got even less experience than Philips. She's not gonna say no, because it makes any politician look like they don't want to be making a difference in people's lives. Prince John fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 13:43
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Tarnop posted:And everyone who didn't is pathetic and deluded, let's not gloss over that gem Yeah that part seems to be getting glossed over a lot.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:44
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It's pretty clear at this point that it doesn't matter, baggage will be invented.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:45
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I never said the people are pathetic I said the excuses that socialists make for their failures are pathetic. When you're trying to get into power "It's not fair" doesn't cut it. I also don't recall saying delusional.
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Apr 4, 2020 13:47
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