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the only coherent position w/r/t leftist politics I've ever had is the way I hit my dick+balls repeatedly with a hammer my sympathies for having a too nice candidate and the brain-breaking brexit question
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Apr 4, 2020 14:06
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dismal turnout in the election. 293k people didn't vote
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Apr 4, 2020 14:16
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https://twitter.com/MrEwanMorrison/status/1246349397329358848
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Apr 4, 2020 14:22
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Jose posted:dismal turnout in the election. 293k people didn't vote can't believe corbyn's antisemitism did this
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Apr 4, 2020 16:44
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V. Illych L. posted:also the great weakness of corbynism has been demonstrated: given the choice between leftism and liberalism, young urban types will choose liberalism iirc that isn't what happened. the urban youth were like the only people on board with corbynism in 2019. has that changed in the data since? its everyone else that we hosed it with Crowsbeak posted:Frankly. It may be best at the least to prepare for something after electoralism because your society is starting to look like USSR in the eighties. Do you want a Putin in fifteen to twenty years directing England or even a Britain. You need to have measures prepared for when the collapse comes you can seize power. I have to say I don't understand why electoralism is either or. To engage in electoralism all you, personally, need to do is vote. Any ground organisations should be doing good stuff in the community first and foremost, then canvass during elections if there's a decent candidate or whatever. But one of the things the UK and US left is seeing is the limit of ground-game, its useful to get your own voters out but limited otherwise. V. Illych L. posted:there's no viable political entity that can be composed entirely of the working class, partially because that class is largely disenfranchised through the extensive use of migrant labour and partially because productivity per work-hour in competitive western industries is sky high, leading to a much smaller base of easily organised workers which is further splintered by canny conservative policy making ordinary people homeowners for cheap in the eighties agreed that the working class being the only or current revolutionary class is a mystifying conceit some people seem to insist on. it certainly isnt currently the case. i think corbynism/bernyism is the only working theory of a viable coalition but in practice it hasn't been so viable
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Apr 4, 2020 16:49
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I would argue that a revitalized left can only succeed in fully jettisoning liberalism from itself. The marriage that came from the sixties has been a disaster for socialism.
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Apr 4, 2020 17:07
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young educated urbanites forced the party into a very pro-EU posture and would clearly not be satisfied with a compromise position, and so sealed the party's fate really brexit was a disaster for labour from the beginning, it hit a very precise wedge into the interest coalition backing the party. they managed to fudge it in 2017, but couldn't in 2019
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Apr 4, 2020 17:39
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V. Illych L. posted:young educated urbanites forced the party into a very pro-EU posture and would clearly not be satisfied with a compromise position, and so sealed the party's fate nobody was satisfied with the brexit compromise. i agree with the 2nd bit though
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Apr 4, 2020 18:14
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Okay, how bout a change of topic? I've just finished watching the news and Bojo's fiance has tested positive and she is also pregnant. The implications of this are worrying. E: whoops, apparently she just has symptoms and has been bed ridden for a week and is on the mend. I should note that she is 32 years old. Valko has issued a correction as of 18:38 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 18:33
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https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1246489462198206471?s=19
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Apr 4, 2020 18:40
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Valko posted:Okay, how bout a change of topic? I've just finished watching the news and Bojo's fiance has tested positive and she is also pregnant. The implications of this are worrying. Bojo is a loving rear end in a top hat for continuing to be around people when he knew he probably had something wrong wit him. Also New York proves age is not much of anything, people are dying if you have the genetic cocktail.
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Apr 4, 2020 18:40
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right wingers already thinking that this means herd immunity was right all along and the elite media forcing a U-turn is whats hosed us
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Apr 4, 2020 19:18
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V. Illych L. posted:young educated urbanites forced the party into a very pro-EU posture and would clearly not be satisfied with a compromise position, and so sealed the party's fate Labour lost 2 million votes to the Lib Dems, Greens and Plaid even after committing to 2nd ref There's no guarantee that sticking with the original soft Brexit compromise gets you a better result when you take into account not winning Sheffield Hallam, Putney, Canterbury etc.
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Apr 4, 2020 19:29
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Valko posted:Okay, how bout a change of topic? I've just finished watching the news and Bojo's fiance has tested positive and she is also pregnant. The implications of this are worrying.
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Apr 4, 2020 19:43
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https://twitter.com/AliAbunimah/status/1246397791150190592?s=20 pretty hosed up poo poo
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Apr 4, 2020 19:43
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https://twitter.com/LizTray/status/1246488862433652736?s=20
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Apr 4, 2020 20:37
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lmfao
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Apr 4, 2020 22:07
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MikeCrotch posted:Labour lost 2 million votes to the Lib Dems, Greens and Plaid even after committing to 2nd ref better to lose seats to the libdems then the tories
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Apr 4, 2020 22:15
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the british are bar none the most uninformed, misinformed voters on earth
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Apr 4, 2020 22:20
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https://twitter.com/TrueAnonPod/status/1246557805223370753?s=20
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Apr 4, 2020 23:03
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https://twitter.com/oldseadog48/status/1246498694465232903?s=20
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Apr 4, 2020 23:19
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that's enough starmer. let's have brexit chat back
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Apr 4, 2020 23:42
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Squizzle posted:the british are bar none the most uninformed, misinformed voters on earth This. Which is why when America goes USSA and starts going whole hog on the Anglosphere and Brazil it make sure to rename Britain “Airstrip 1.”
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Apr 4, 2020 23:45
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MikeCrotch posted:Labour lost 2 million votes to the Lib Dems, Greens and Plaid even after committing to 2nd ref yes i know i was in favour of the pivot at the time, but that group's completely disproportionate weighing of the brexit issue was as bad as old northerners for labour, and it's a very clear cultural issue - i.e. choosing liberalism (of the worst sort! the EU is a horrible organisation) over leftism when they're in conflict
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Apr 4, 2020 23:46
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:that's enough starmer. let's have brexit chat back give us, us our brexit!
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Apr 4, 2020 23:48
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starmer's a clear product of the brexit culture war though, you really can't talk about his ascent without talking about brexit, and about labour's pivot towards educated city-dwellers in particular
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Apr 4, 2020 23:50
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https://twitter.com/orangarnold/status/1246544831456960512?s=20
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Apr 4, 2020 23:55
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Honestly, at the end of the day, is it worse to have a liberal centrist who passes some of your policies and generally does things like keep the NHS funded, or have a great party leader but the government is run by racist pedophiles who want to kill the poor?
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Apr 5, 2020 00:08
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Dravs posted:Honestly, at the end of the day, is it worse to have a liberal centrist who passes some of your policies and generally does things like keep the NHS funded, or have a great party leader but the government is run by racist pedophiles who want to kill the poor? I don't know if you can trust centrists to do things like keep the NHS funded.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:11
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prefect posted:I don't know if you can trust centrists to do things like keep the NHS funded. pfi have no idea what you mean
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Apr 5, 2020 00:15
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Dravs posted:Honestly, at the end of the day, is it worse to have a liberal centrist who passes some of your policies and generally does things like keep the NHS funded, or have a great party leader but the government is run by racist pedophiles who want to kill the poor? Why not have the left-wing party led by a liberal centrist who has no policies and the government run by racist pedophiles who want to kill the poor? Just because Corbyn failed doesn't mean that Starmer would have succeeded, and his mug is about the least confidence-inspiring thing in the world.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:25
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Dravs posted:Honestly, at the end of the day, is it worse to have a liberal centrist who passes some of your policies and generally does things like keep the NHS funded, or have a great party leader but the government is run by racist pedophiles who want to kill the poor? That is what you get with Liberal Centrists.
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Apr 5, 2020 00:28
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ciberal lentristcrats
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Apr 5, 2020 00:41
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Dravs posted:Honestly, at the end of the day, is it worse to have a liberal centrist who passes some of your policies and generally does things like keep the NHS funded, or have a great party leader but the government is run by racist pedophiles who want to kill the poor? an irrelevant question as you now have neither
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Apr 5, 2020 00:46
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Dravs posted:Honestly, at the end of the day, is it worse to have a liberal centrist who passes some of your policies and generally does things like keep the NHS funded, or have a great party leader but the government is run by racist pedophiles who want to kill the poor? All the evidence is that moderate centre-leftism is electoral suicide right now
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Apr 5, 2020 01:06
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V. Illych L. posted:yes i know i was in favour of the pivot at the time, but that group's completely disproportionate weighing of the brexit issue was as bad as old northerners for labour, and it's a very clear cultural issue - i.e. choosing liberalism (of the worst sort! the EU is a horrible organisation) over leftism when they're in conflict probably best if you don't comment then, as you clearly don't know what you're talking about and have proven that repeatedly
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Apr 5, 2020 08:50
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The one thing I would say for Starmer is he's the 'please let the beatings stop' surrender candidate and Labour might fare a little better just from not having every paper in the country relentlessly gunning for them. It remains to see if this will follow through and if the North will vote for Mr London Remainer guy, but I understand the impulse in going for him.
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Apr 5, 2020 09:21
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multijoe posted:The one thing I would say for Starmer is he's the 'please let the beatings stop' surrender candidate and Labour might fare a little better just from not having every paper in the country relentlessly gunning for them. It remains to see if this will follow through and if the North will vote for Mr London Remainer guy, but I understand the impulse in going for him. Except it reveals the depths of misunderstanding that the general Labour party member/affiliated voter has about the press and politics. Millionaire Sir Remainer of London, leader of the Labour Party, supporter of the 2017 Labour manifesto is going to be hated by the press no matter how far to the right he goes and the best reporting tone he'll ever get is neutrality when advocating for a policy that's broadly in line with something that the Tories could also do while that same approach will fail to engage anyone into supporting the party. Labour survived under Ed Milliband but it didn't win and it didn't get any closer to winning either.
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Apr 5, 2020 09:33
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multijoe posted:The one thing I would say for Starmer is he's the 'please let the beatings stop' surrender candidate and Labour might fare a little better just from not having every paper in the country relentlessly gunning for them. It remains to see if this will follow through and if the North will vote for Mr London Remainer guy, but I understand the impulse in going for him. if we nominate john kerry, they couldn't possibly attack a war hero
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Apr 5, 2020 09:45
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I don't think it's inconcievable that if the Tories really gently caress up the handling of the Coronavirus (which is looking extremely likely) that Starmer could present himself as a safe pair of hands to Murdoch and restart the old News Corp alliance, which I'd guess is his gameplan in writing his first article as leader in the Sunday Times. Again, that's not to say it would definitely work, but I can see the logic in going for it.
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Apr 5, 2020 10:06
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