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Velocity Raptor posted:I'm still very new to following politics, so I'm also quite naive in a lot of aspects, but why don't we/how possible is it to start our own lobbying group to represent the normal people? https://politics.theonion.com/american-people-hire-high-powered-lobbyist-to-push-inte-1819571821
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Apr 9, 2020 18:20
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Doctor Butts posted:I think we're in the same place we were near the 2016 election where a whole shitload of people weren't enthused about voting for Clinton and a whole bunch of words went back and forth regarding it. The difference is people actually thought Clinton was going to win.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:20
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Arist posted:I live in a deep blue state without all that many electoral votes that won't even have its primary for two more months, so I never even got to vote for my favored candidate before he dropped out. My vote doesn't matter in about fourteen different ways. Stop acting like it matters if I don't vote for Biden. It literally doesn't and, for my part at least, I've tried to be very clear that the calculus is different depending on where one lives.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:20
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https://twitter.com/nausjcaa/status/1248227020213039104
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Apr 9, 2020 18:21
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Framboise posted:No one needs convincing as to why Trump is bad ITT. People ITT are wanting an explanation as to why actually, Biden is good. That's easy, he's not. Most politicians are not. He's just way less bad than Trump, while still being bad.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:21
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sit on my Facebook posted:Once the gulags start and our biometric data is being forcibly harvested to sell to Amazon for their new patented In-Brain Targeted Advertising, then, THEN the left shall rise up! Y'know, you were the one wanting to probe people for not having a good argument on why Biden would be as bad or worse than Trump, then you post this bullshit.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:21
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PeterCat posted:Y'know, you were the one wanting to probe people for not having a good argument on why Biden would be as bad or worse than Trump, then you post this bullshit. I have typed a lot of words in the past two or three pages attempting to genuinely make that case, I'm allowed one joke post
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Apr 9, 2020 18:22
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Meridian posted:The only people who seem to be raging are posters demanding that Biden be voted for because Trump is bad. Pester Jane seems pretty mad. But I agree, theres no point in arguing strategic voting in this thread. It's a dead end. If you're not going to cast a vote for president, that's your business and theres no point in discussing it.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:22
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PeterCat posted:As far as the steel workers go, Trump's policies have caused modernization and reinvestment in that industry, even if it is happening in starts and fits. Oh my god, where are you getting your information? The US cut employment at steel mills by 9,000 jobs between 2016 and now, and jobs in foundries by 2,000.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:23
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sit on my Facebook posted:Once the gulags start and our biometric data is being forcibly harvested to sell to Amazon for their new patented In-Brain Targeted Advertising, then, THEN the left shall rise up! (Watching state sponsored television because all the networks were shut down for questioning dear leader) "I'm sure glad I didn't vote for that Democrat I didn't like"
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Apr 9, 2020 18:23
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Just a song to amp up people for their continuing generalchat https://youtu.be/ZTg6hg1miFg
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Apr 9, 2020 18:24
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Pick posted:Accelerationism will work if we let things get worse, this time!! *mass graves in NYC parks* well I mean obviously it'll need to get worse than thiiiiis I'm curious how bad it will have to get before M4A is palatable to my corporate masters. A pandemic doesn't seem to matter.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:24
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Arist posted:I live in a deep blue state without all that many electoral votes that won't even have its primary for two more months, so I never even got to vote for my favored candidate before he dropped out. My vote doesn't matter in about fourteen different ways. Stop acting like it matters if I don't vote for Biden. I mean this is fair and I don't think anyone was really arguing about voters in states that are too red or too blue for their vote for president to matter. If you live in New York then yeah, vote the down-ballot and write in Bernie to send a message, more power to you.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:26
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I'm tired, guys. I'm tired of all the winning.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:26
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Xombie posted:Oh my god, where are you getting your information? The US cut employment at steel mills by 9,000 jobs between 2016 and now, and jobs in foundries by 2,000. LOL both can be true, only an idiot believes steel jobs are coming back. Even if the steel industry made a comeback you'd see less workers added than at Arby's.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:26
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I think I wrote something like this in the last thread, but I'm going to repeat it here. Not only is Biden a lovely candidate, but please consider Game Theory for a moment. Let's say you run a huge mega corp. You're bezos or whatever. You want right-leaning policies in effect, so you donate to GOP. Makes sense. Well, what is your back-up plan if the GOP candidate becomes unpopular? You also donate to the DNC and make sure that they run a republican-lite candidate. Effectively you win hard (GOP) or you win (DNC). If the DNC candidate gets elected you just profit slightly less for a few years until the US elects another "win hard" candidate for you. Well, what if the voters catch on and notice that you've paid the DNC to put out a candidate that is terrible? Won't they notice and not vote for him. Nah, you have an army of "vote blue no matter who" people to browbeat people into voting for basically a republican. What if left-leaning voters want someone left leaning? Too bad. DNC is an independent organization and can choose who they want (which they have said they would have done to prevent Bernie from being the candidate) and rig things to make their corporate-preferred candidate win (which they have done). "Well what if the left leaning voters aren't happy." "Well, tell 'em to gently caress off. Vote blue no matter who means that I have their vote no matter what. I don't have to appeal to voters. I have their vote. I'll do with it what I want." So, pro-Biden voters, I've asked this a ton of times already----what do you do to stop this cycle? Some chucklefucks have said "run a candidate that's better." No. I've already demonstrated this doesn't work. The DNC said they don't care who we pick. So, your answer is lovely and invalid. Even if the DNC didn't admit they'd gently caress Bernie over, they did the same voter suppression stuff that GOP does to make sure Biden won in certain areas. Bernie polled better against Trump compared to every other DNC candidate. Bernie broke records wrt individual donations to his campaign. That's literally what you're asking for with "run a good candidate." Anyways, keep voting blue no matter who and telling the DNC in this way "you're doing a great job and I will never ever back down from supporting you." I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the people promoting a rapist candidate wants to blame the victims for how this all worked out.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:27
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Arist posted:I live in a deep blue state without all that many electoral votes that won't even have its primary for two more months, so I never even got to vote for my favored candidate before he dropped out. My vote doesn't matter in about fourteen different ways. Stop acting like it matters if I don't vote for Biden. I don't care about your vote, I care about the votes of people in swing and competitive states. You are telling those people to vote for Trump.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:29
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The Sean posted:
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Apr 9, 2020 18:29
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Maybe people would care about rape more if it were taken seriously outside its ability to be leveraged for public opinion re: politicians and celebrities.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:29
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How are u posted:I don't care about your vote, I care about the votes of people in swing and competitive states. You are telling those people to vote for Trump. No I'm loving not.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:30
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Good luck to anyone currently in higher education, especially grad students and people on the academic grad market, because the neoliberalization of the modern university is going to move at lightspeed now.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:31
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Like I guarantee you know someone who is a rapist. You could probably make a pretty good guess. How much has the average person... done about that
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Apr 9, 2020 18:31
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Mat Cauthon posted:Good luck to anyone currently in higher education, especially grad students and people on the academic grad market, because the neoliberalization of the modern university is going to move at lightspeed now. Academia made me suicidal! fun place
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Apr 9, 2020 18:31
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Pick posted:Like I guarantee you know someone who is a rapist. You could probably make a pretty good guess. How much has the average person... done about that "Don't try to have standards, because you're probably morally compromised already! It's pointless to care about things!"
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Apr 9, 2020 18:31
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Arist posted:https://politics.theonion.com/american-people-hire-high-powered-lobbyist-to-push-inte-1819571821 Jesus, of course this idea would already be written about as satire.  But seriously, how hard is it to get a socialist lobbying group started and pushing progressive policies?
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Apr 9, 2020 18:32
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https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1248279556269715460
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Apr 9, 2020 18:32
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The Sean posted:Anyways, keep voting blue no matter who and telling the DNC in this way "you're doing a great job and I will never ever back down from supporting you." Yeah I remember seeing this stuff back before Bush/Gore. I've heard it every election since. I used to believe it myself. What happens is that most of the people complaining don't really do anything but whine every 4 years. I know we have some very active politically organized people on here, I'm not talking about them, I'm saying the vast majority don't. Because of that, you have a largely inert party and people trying to protest vote when it's far, far too late. If you want your protest vote to matter, you're probably 4-8 years too late. People need to be actively organized now, and voting as left as possible at every level, to get the party in a position where a leftist candidate can succeed. Lots of areas of the country, you're doomed because of the party machine. If that sounds like it sucks and is a lot of work, yeah, I get it. And most people are just struggling to get by. That's why most people just try to justify their protest vote every 4 years rather than do it. People tried to game theory the party in 2016 and they got ignored.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:33
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Get me Tim Kaine!
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Apr 9, 2020 18:34
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What does "my TL" mean?
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Apr 9, 2020 18:36
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Arist posted:"Don't try to have standards, because you're probably morally compromised already! It's pointless to care about things!" No, I'm saying this keeps coming up like "why would women vote for a rapist?!" and it's like shiiiiit, plenty of women have to interact with rapey men every day, least this guys far away *i am woman
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Apr 9, 2020 18:36
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Xombie posted:Oh my god, where are you getting your information? The US cut employment at steel mills by 9,000 jobs between 2016 and now, and jobs in foundries by 2,000. In this era, “modernization and reinvestment” usually means replacing people with robots. Workers lose jobs and productivity rises simultaneously. edit: Xombie posted:What does "my TL" mean? my TimeLine. It’s a way people on twitter refer to the group of people that they follow. Promoted Pawn fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 18:38
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Republicans got where they are today by voting against things, not for them. They never voted FOR GWBush, they voted against Clinton ('s VP), no one loving votes FOR Romney, they voted against Obama. This seems to consistently work! Lefties please do this in 2020!
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Apr 9, 2020 18:40
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Xombie posted:What does "my TL" mean? "My timeline." So basically people kramering into their twitter replies.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:40
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Promoted Pawn posted:In this era, “modernization and reinvestment” usually means replacing people with robots. Workers lose jobs and productivity rises simultaneously. Oh I know, I was also about to point out that this modernization means automation. The same is true for industries like coal and car plants. They build a brand new, state of the art facility, and hire all of two dozen people to run it in shifts.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:40
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VH4Ever posted:"My timeline." So basically people kramering into their twitter replies. Ah yes, the same people who didn't come out to vote for Bernie in the numbers he needed, because they stay home every election no matter who is running.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:41
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Lemming posted:A failed Biden administration, which is inevitable because he has neither the will nor the desire to flout Republican intrasigence, risks a more competent fascist combined with stronger Republican control of the house and Senate in 2024. I'm not sure if you've thought this one all the way though. Trump winning will also mean the GOP taking the house back, and the states being mostly GOP trifectas, which ensures another 10 years of gerrymandered hell.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:42
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The Sean posted:So, pro-Biden voters, I've asked this a ton of times already----what do you do to stop this cycle? More leftist candidates in more places need to be found, run, and voted in to office. quote:Some chucklefucks have said "run a candidate that's better." No. I've already demonstrated this doesn't work. The DNC said they don't care who we pick. So, your answer is lovely and invalid. Even if the DNC didn't admit they'd gently caress Bernie over, they did the same voter suppression stuff that GOP does to make sure Biden won in certain areas. Bernie polled better against Trump compared to every other DNC candidate. Bernie broke records wrt individual donations to his campaign. That's literally what you're asking for with "run a good candidate." Can you tell me how the DNC hosed Bernie over and prevented people from voting for him? Sorry I see this bandied about a lot but haven't gotten a full explanation. In any case, sure, the polling said one thing, people do another. This happens all the time. You poll with certain questions about Obamacare and people are like 'whoa this is better than how it was before!', but they still hate Obamacare. You can get a whole bunch of people who agree with a lot of Bernie's stuff but they're still not voting for him for whatever reason. Hell, polling showing Clinton was going to beat out Trump turned out not to be a reliable indicator of what people were actually going to do. So, how do you stop that cycle? It's a tough one. At this point I only take the positive polling of Bernie showing that, at some point, some folks do agree. But exactly where does that agreement stop them from voting for it? Is it because Bernie is too radical? Is it because of the labels that have been put on him? Do those things 'sound good' but buy into American Exceptionalism in that they don't think it can/should be done here? Doctor Butts fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 18:43
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Xombie posted:Ah yes, the same people who didn't come out to vote for Bernie in the numbers he needed, because they stay home every election no matter who is running. Why are you doing this?
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Apr 9, 2020 18:43
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Arist posted:https://politics.theonion.com/american-people-hire-high-powered-lobbyist-to-push-inte-1819571821 The latest episode of Worst Year Ever just had Mark Cuban make this pitch. Beyond parady, but probably not wrong....
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Apr 9, 2020 18:43
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PeterCat posted:Biden has claimed credit for overseeing the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, which left the country extremely vulnerable when ISIS rose and took over the western half of the country. Daesh was a direct result of the Obama administration's mishandling of the Syrian civil war, or do you not remember when Obama backed down after drawing a line in the sand against Assad and then did nothing when it was crossed? That's a fun dance you got there. Obama is responsible for pulling out troops in Iraq leading to ISIS.. which came in to existence in 2006, after Bush blew the gently caress out of the region, and then you argue that the Trump administration is moving for a withdrawl.. which still hasn't happened, and would still end with the Taliban in control, which is exactly what you think Biden/Obama did bad at in Iraq? You also failed to address Trump's open support of Netanyahu who was unhappy with the Obama administration but is getting everything he wants now. You also side-stepped Trump's open and not even really a secret of transferring nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, after torpedoing the Iran nuclear deal which puts Iran in the totally rational place where they really need to get nuclear weapons. Obama wasn't stupid, it's not in anyone's interest for either country to get nuclear weapons. Trump's foreign policy here is a disaster. It's 2020, steel prices fell sharply in 2019 from 2018, and all the manufacturing dependent on steel (and aluminum) suffered and those employ greatly outnumber the steel industry. This was a lesson already learned when Bush pulled the same stunt with softwood lumber and steel tarrifs. A Democratic administration isn't going to push judges that are going to bring a new Jim Crow, but a Trump administration has been and will continue to. We can't fix that if we can't vote and our votes don't get counted. A Trump administration is going to continue putting people like Brian Kemp and Kris Kobach in places where they can wield power, but a Democratic one (and congress) will continue to try to unfuck voting rights and nominate judges that aren't fascist theocrats.
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