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HerStuddMuffin
Aug 10, 2014

YOSPOS
Hong Kong has always been a part of Taiwan.

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uguu
Mar 9, 2014

Mozi posted:

new org WHO dis

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
Entertaining clash coming up as Guangzhou instances of multinational chains like McDonald's and Starbucks join in the with this current "no black people lol" fashion, and people are circulating/tweeting the notices outside of China.

Wonder what the upshot will be?
Obviously obligatory "in the US you lynch negroes, etc etc."

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.
College Slice

quote:

Even in January, when Chinese authorities were downplaying the extent of the virus, doctors at the epicenter of the outbreak in Wuhan reportedly observed human-to-human transmission, not least by contracting the disease themselves. In the most famous example, Dr. Li Wenliang was censured for “spreading rumors” after trying to alert other doctors of the new respiratory ailment; he later died of the virus himself at age 33. China now claims him as a martyr. Asked about Li’s case at a press conference, the executive director of the WHO’s Health Emergencies Programme, Michael Ryan, said, “We all mourn the loss of a fellow physician and colleague” but stopped short of condemning China for accusing him. “There is an understandable confusion that occurs at the beginning of an epidemic,” Ryan added. “So we need to be careful to label misunderstanding versus misinformation; there's a difference. People can misunderstand and they can overreact.”
:lol:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/world-health-organization-blame-pandemic-coronavirus/609820/

SilkyP
Jul 21, 2004

The Boo-Box


This Michael Ryan sounds like a stooge

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
1: The WHO is clearly owned by China now. I mean they openly bought them and everything. They should be viewed as being as credible as any other organisation that needs to avoid pissing off China.

2: It still feels pointless to blame China for this virus in anything more than a technical way.
Had the various western governments put up a noble struggle, almost containing the virus but having it slip through their fingers at the last minute, then China's initial bullshit with the local government cover-up, lies, and initial complicity of the CDC-equivalent would be very relevant. It might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
Only that wasn't what happened lol.

The western governments failed fast and hard, took a step back, sized up their opposition, then got right back to failing even harder. If it wasn't this virus, it would have been whatever one came next. We didn't realise it, but we were basically giant sitting targets for pretty much any epidemic because of the malice and incompetence of leadership worldwide.

Taiwan and SK showed that you don't have to be an authoritarian fascist state to control the virus, and that achieving a decent outcome is not incompatible with being a modern democracy - just, most of the west shat the bed, and are making GBS threads it still.

url
Apr 23, 2007

internet gnuru

Cheesemaster200 posted:

the US would recognize Taiwan as an independent country.

The US did.

Taiwan declined the opportunity to be recognised as an independent nation.

The US chose to no longer do so.

This is how the one-china problem came to be.

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel
I think you are mis-characterizing China's influence at the WHO. I don't think they are necessarily buying them off. China pushes its influence by a policy of "if you don't do what we want, we are taking our ball and going home". They have a policy of not working with organizations that don't play nice with their expectations. As no other country is acting like this in a competing way, they make the logical choice of appeasing China. China has calculation that no other country is going to do that, given that organizations like the WHO are WTO are constructs of western leadership. The WHO's mandate is not to take sides in political disputes, but to increase international cooperation on issues of healthcare. They can do that better by playing nice with the mainland. If the United States (or any other major country) suddenly created a policy of "we won't work with any organization that doesn't also work with Taiwan" then the WHO and many other organizations would assuredly rethink their appeasement of Chinese demands. I think this is why Trump agitates the Chinese so much, because he is playing the same 12-year old politics as the Chinese are and it is setting their foreign policy off base.

The downside of this policy however is that everyone knows what China is doing, and nobody likes it. That means you are not really making many friends. The "soft power" that so many like to talk about in this thread is rather shallow, as everyone who is benefiting from the relationship with China is only going to be friendly so long as the benefits keep coming. The US and its western allies have learned this in many different ways over the past 75 years. The IMF, World Bank and other institutions put strings on their aid and look how that always ends up.

quote:

The US did.

Taiwan declined the opportunity to be recognised as an independent nation.

The US chose to no longer do so.

This is how the one-china problem came to be.
Are you referring in the years before the US recognized the PRC?

Cheesemaster200 fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Apr 12, 2020

url
Apr 23, 2007

internet gnuru

oohhboy posted:


Gotta say, it's pretty sweet


Im down, but it seems a bit
#/pols/closed


no?

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Atopian posted:

2: It still feels pointless to blame China for this virus in anything more than a technical way.

I don't agree. It's absolutely true most western countries except Germany have royally hosed up their response. The US having an apocalyptic outbreak was predictable from the beginning given our current government + what laughingly passes for a healthcare system. But that doesn't change that the PRC government's bullshit allowed it to get out of hand in the first place. It's possible this virus is so virulent that containment wasn't going to happen, but we will never know that because the authorities spent at least a month pretending it didn't exist and silencing everyone trying to raise the alarm, and by the time they took it seriously it was for sure beyond any control. Surprise, they did this last time too. And they will do it the next time.

I don't know how to thread the needle of emphasizing the criminal negligence and hosed up incentives of the Chinese government without it furthering the racist backlash against Asian people that's going on. Other than emphasizing that all the Chinese people who are dying are victims of their government's actions as much as anyone else.

This is why authoritarian systems don't work. You can't have responsibility without free oversight, and you can't have free oversight in authoritarian governments. Every major disaster in the PRC's history has this poo poo where local authorities gently caress up and cover up out of fear of the national government and the people who actually know what's going on get silenced for causing trouble. The government is the problem. A free society will still gently caress up, human systems always will, but they don't gently caress up to the extremes authoritarian governments do. And some of them will be like Germany or South Korea and do an excellent job in the face of crisis.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ
https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/04/11/brand-new-chinese-aircraft-carrier-catches-fire/amp/

Forbes posted:

New Chinese Assault Carrier Catches Fire

Black smoke has been seen billowing from China’s first assault carrier in Shanghai. The new Type-075 carrier, which is similar to the U.S. Navy’s America Class assault carriers, is designed to carry helicopters and hovercraft to support amphibious landings.

The smoke was reported on Chinese social media platforms earlier today. Images suggest that the fire took hold within the hull of the ship, possibly in the expansive aircraft hanger. Smoke came out of the open aircraft lift near the front of the island superstructure. Smoke also came out of the rear hangar opening. For a time a massive cloud of smoke rose high into the air, and would have been visible for miles around.

The fire was put out, but not before causing significant smoke damage to the hull. The extent of damage inside is not yet known. Black stains can now be seen from the ship’s large well deck in the stern, contrasting with the clean gray paint. The vessel was only launched on September 25 and is being fitted out before sea trials.

The incident is clearly bad news for China’s navy, known as the PLAN (People’s Liberation Army Navy). Yet although it will clearly set back the fitting out process for the ship, outward signs are that it was dealt with quickly. It is unlikely to prevent the completion of the ship.

I am not a naval architect so I cannot comment

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Atopian posted:

Entertaining clash coming up as Guangzhou instances of multinational chains like McDonald's and Starbucks join in the with this current "no black people lol" fashion, and people are circulating/tweeting the notices outside of China.

Wonder what the upshot will be?
Obviously obligatory "in the US you lynch negroes, etc etc."

“Your Black Death is highest” will be the new “flu kills more”

Also post them

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?






A couple I had handy.

human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020

by Fluffdaddy

BrigadierSensible posted:

Whilst we are talking about #1 China:

What would the absolute worst thing Taiwan could do to piss off the CCP? I mean they have already declared themselves to be fully independent from China, they compete separately in major sporting competitions etc.

I am not talking about the UN acknowledging Taiwan as a full member, or WHO letting Taiwan join, or heaven forfend, Qantas listing Taiwan as a separate country on their website etc. Which would piss off the CCP no end. I am specifically asking what Taiwan itself could do to further antagonize the pissbaby CCP.

Coz given that their official stances of "Taiwan is 100% China" and "Nuh uh, we aren't. And you are the only people who think so." are already diametrically opposed, I dunno what they could do or say to further distance themselves.

Testing a nuclear weapon. China has accepted the status quo because if push comes to shove China can still easily conquer Taiwan if it had to. The specter of a Chinese invasion is what has kept Taiwan from declaring de jure independence. It is also why the US strongly opposed the Taiwanese nuclear weapons program in the past, because it was believed that if Taiwan ever tested a nuclear weapon it would immediately trigger a full-scale Chinese assault.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Grand Fromage posted:





A couple I had handy.

One McDonald’s. Two systems

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/asia/china-coronavirus-research-restrictions-intl-hnk/index.html

China is imposing restrictions on research into the origins of COVID-19.

quote:

Beijing tightens grip over coronavirus research, amid US-China row on virus origin

China has imposed restrictions on the publication of academic research on the origins of the novel coronavirus, according to a central government directive and online notices published by two Chinese universities, that have since been removed from the web.

Under the new policy, all academic papers on Covid-19 will be subject to extra vetting before being submitted for publication. Studies on the origin of the virus will receive extra scrutiny and must be approved by central government officials, according to the now-deleted posts.

A medical expert in Hong Kong who collaborated with mainland researchers to publish a clinical analysis of Covid-19 cases in an international medical journal said his work did not undergo such vetting in February.

The increased scrutiny appears to be the latest effort by the Chinese government to control the narrative on the origins of the coronavirus pandemic, which has claimed more than 100,000 lives and sickened 1.7 million people worldwide since it first broke out in the Chinese city of Wuhan in December.

Since late January, Chinese researchers have published a series of Covid-19 studies in influential international medical journals. Some findings about early coronavirus cases -- such as when human-to-human transition first appeared -- have raised questions over the official government account of the outbreak and sparked controversy on Chinese social media.

And now, Chinese authorities appear to be tightening their grip on the publication of Covid-19 research.

A Chinese researcher who spoke on condition of anonymity due to fear of retaliation said the move was a worrying development that would likely obstruct important scientific research.

"I think it is a coordinated effort from (the) Chinese government to control (the) narrative, and paint it as if the outbreak did not originate in China," the researcher told CNN. "And I don't think they will really tolerate any objective study to investigate the origination of this disease."

CNN has reached out to China's foreign ministry for comment.

Increased scrutiny

According to the directive issued by the Ministry of Education's science and technology department, "academic papers about tracing the origin of the virus must be strictly and tightly managed."

The directive lays out layers of approval for these papers, starting with the academic committees at universities. They are then required to be sent to the education ministry's science and technology department, which then forwards the papers to a task-force under the State Council for vetting. Only after the universities hear back from the task-force can the papers be submitted to journals.

Other papers on Covid-19 will be vetted by universities' academic committees, based on conditions such as the "academic value" of the study, and whether the "timing for publishing" is right.

The directive is based on instructions issued during a March 25 meeting held by the State Council's task-force on the prevention and control of Covid-19, it said.

The document was first posted Friday morning on the website of the Fudan University in Shanghai, one of China's leading universities.

When CNN called a contact number left at the end of the notice, a staff member of the education ministry's science and technology department confirmed they had issued the directive.

"It is not supposed to be made public -- it is an internal document," said the person, who refused to reveal his name.

A few hours later, the Fudan University page was taken down.

The China University of Geoscience in Wuhan also posted a similar notice about the extra vetting on Covid-19 papers on its website. The page has since been deleted, but a cached version of it remains accessible.

The Chinese researcher who spoke to CNN said the notice was issued a few days ago, adding that only Covid-19 research was subject to the additional checks.

David Hui Shu-cheong, a respiratory medicine expert at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, said he did not encounter any additional vetting when he and a team of mainland Chinese researchers published a clinical analysis of Covid-19 cases in the New England Journal of Medicine in February.
"The process was really simple then," he told CNN over the phone.

Hui said he was still revising the draft of the paper until 3 a.m. on the day it was due for submission, and the paper was sent to the NEJM by midday.
"There was completely no restriction at all," he said.
"I don't know if it is because some researchers published something that is considered sensitive domestically in China. (I'm) not sure if it is because of the controversy about the origin of the virus later, and the non-sensitive stuff becomes sensitive too."

Origin of the virus

In late December, Wuhan reported the first cases of the coronavirus, linked by authorities to a seafood market in the city. Scientists in China and the West have said the virus is likely to have originated in bats and jumped to humans from an intermediate host -- just like its cousin that caused the SARS epidemic in 2002 and 2003.

However, parts of Chinese social media and even the country's government appear to have launched a concerted campaign to question the origin of the virus.

Chinese officials and state media have repeatedly stressed that there has been no conclusion on the exact origin of the virus. Last month, Zhao Lijian, a spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, promoted a conspiracy on Twitter that the virus had originated in the US and was brought to China by the US military.

In China, research papers on the coronavirus are already subjected to layers of vetting after they are submitted to Chinese academic journals, according to an editor at a Chinese medical journal.

Wang Lan, the editorial director of the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology, said all Covid-19 papers have to go through an approval process for "major topics" after being submitted to her journal.
"It has always been the case," she told CNN. "They have to be approved by three levels of organizations. It's a long process."

The Chinese researcher who requested anonymity said under the new restrictions, however, coronavirus research that contradicted the official narrative could be suppressed by Beijing.

"I think the importance is that the international scientific community must realize that any journal or manuscripts from (a) Chinese research institution has kind of been double-checked by the government," said the researcher. "It is important for them to know there are extra steps between independent scientific research and final publication."

d0s
Jun 28, 2004

quote:

"I think it is a coordinated effort from (the) Chinese government to control (the) narrative, and paint it as if the outbreak did not originate in China," the researcher told CNN. "And I don't think they will really tolerate any objective study to investigate the origination of this disease."

definitely save this for the future when tank enthusiasts post studies from china stating that the virus came from california or whatever

e: not that it would matter haha

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Sten Freak posted:

“There is an understandable confusion that occurs at the beginning of an epidemic,” Ryan added. “So we need to be careful to label misunderstanding versus misinformation; there's a difference. People can misunderstand and they can overreact.”

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

14 january never 4get

Dont Touch ME
Apr 1, 2018

If Xi Jinping was just Deng Xiaoping 2.0, China would be the greatest country in the world. Prove me wrong.

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel

Dont Touch ME posted:

If Xi Jinping was just Deng Xiaoping 2.0, China would be the greatest country in the world. Prove me wrong.

Instead he has pursued Mao 2.0.

WarpedNaba
Feb 8, 2012

Being social makes me swell!

url posted:

Im down, but it seems a bit
#/pols/closed


no?

Oh man, I remember that. That's some vintage meme.

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005

human garbage bag posted:

Testing a nuclear weapon. China has accepted the status quo because if push comes to shove China can still easily conquer Taiwan if it had to. The specter of a Chinese invasion is what has kept Taiwan from declaring de jure independence. It is also why the US strongly opposed the Taiwanese nuclear weapons program in the past, because it was believed that if Taiwan ever tested a nuclear weapon it would immediately trigger a full-scale Chinese assault.

China could cut off Taiwan but they almost certainly couldn't invade it.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


Grand Fromage posted:





A couple I had handy.

This is horrible. I want to throw chairs through windows/oil vats.

Ailumao
Nov 4, 2004

Those are both from Guangzhou and Guangzhou has always had a huge issue with racism against Africans. The city has a huge African population (Nigeria and Ghana mostly iirc but I could be wrong) that primarily live in one area of town dubbed “chocolate town” by locals. You can Probably find some good pieces on that cuz it’s been a thing for years and years..

Guangdong was also the 2nd hardest hit province outside of Hubei so combine these two for people more loudly exclaiming their poo poo.

The weird foreigner garbage strips on the other hand seem to be one super angry dude and not really any more widespread than any hyper racist poo poo my aunt shares on Facebook. When those popped up mid last week in news stories claiming everyone in China saw and most agreed with them, I showed some colleagues and friends and only one had even seen them and a couple commented the dude who made them must have wanted to date a girl who was dating a foreigner or something.

Could be Shanghai bubble tho.

Dont Touch ME
Apr 1, 2018

Cheesemaster200 posted:

Instead he has pursued Mao 2.0.

And that's why China is currently not the greatest country in the world. They slippin'...

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001

Grand Fromage posted:





A couple I had handy.
now is china's turn; the unnamed country can only salivate that its southern separatist territory rises again

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel

Magna Kaser posted:

Those are both from Guangzhou and Guangzhou has always had a huge issue with racism against Africans. The city has a huge African population (Nigeria and Ghana mostly iirc but I could be wrong) that primarily live in one area of town dubbed “chocolate town” by locals. You can Probably find some good pieces on that cuz it’s been a thing for years and years..

Again, the parallels of China to the US in the 50s are immense.

WarpedNaba
Feb 8, 2012

Being social makes me swell!
To a certain point. After all, America left the 50s.

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
50 years of culture

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

url posted:

Im down, but it seems a bit
#/pols/closed


no?

WarpedNaba posted:

Oh man, I remember that. That's some vintage meme.

This was before my time, I cannot comment.

What is this any way?

Kharnifex
Sep 11, 2001

The Banter is better in AusGBS
A racism.

WarpedNaba
Feb 8, 2012

Being social makes me swell!

oohhboy posted:

This was before my time, I cannot comment.

What is this any way?

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pools-closed

Tupperwarez
Apr 4, 2004

"phphphphphphpht"? this is what you're going with?

you sure?

WarpedNaba posted:

To a certain point. After all, America left the 50s.
More that the civil rights and women's lib movements dragged America kicking and screaming halfway out of the 50's.

That... sort of happened in Asia, but it didn't really stick? I mean, people nowadays realize that colorism and patriarchy are real problems, but they're still basic facts of life?

BrainDance
May 8, 2007

Disco all night long!

url posted:

Im down, but it seems a bit
#/pols/closed


no?

I dunno man, I feel like there's a big difference between protesting in a game, in a way that's punching up at a government you feel is oppressing you and early 2000s edge.

Pools closed was more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL7nX9W3aOU
than tank man and stuff.

McDonalds China released a statement and said where it happened and that they told the restaurant to not do it. So that's neat. All the Africans kicked out on the streets can go sleep at McDonalds maybe.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
A bit of context to who made the video. He is of Indian descent who immigrated as a kid or was born in the US(I can't remember which). He is a legit practising doctor who started up a clinic(Unfortunately failed) in Las Vegas to try to change the poo poo af US healthcare system he has been seriously brutalised by. He is there to advocate for medics which also helps patients. He pokes fun at every stereotype including himself(The proctologist poop emoji is based on his dad), dude is as far away from racism as you can getting so unbunch your knickers. Both that video and Doc Vadar are part of long running series to blow off steam that go along side the serious stuff.

If I was to make any criticism of him it would be his belief that the US requires some unique system to get healthcare working as he is torn between capitalism and actually socialising medicine. He doesn't quite understand what having the "Right" to healthcare means in other countries. He is also not great with statistics which lead to him underestimating the ccpvirus and now chasing the wrong numbers.

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Magna Kaser posted:

Those are both from Guangzhou and Guangzhou has always had a huge issue with racism against Africans. The city has a huge African population (Nigeria and Ghana mostly iirc but I could be wrong) that primarily live in one area of town dubbed “chocolate town” by locals. You can Probably find some good pieces on that cuz it’s been a thing for years and years..

Guangdong was also the 2nd hardest hit province outside of Hubei so combine these two for people more loudly exclaiming their poo poo.

The weird foreigner garbage strips on the other hand seem to be one super angry dude and not really any more widespread than any hyper racist poo poo my aunt shares on Facebook. When those popped up mid last week in news stories claiming everyone in China saw and most agreed with them, I showed some colleagues and friends and only one had even seen them and a couple commented the dude who made them must have wanted to date a girl who was dating a foreigner or something.

Could be Shanghai bubble tho.

the black American girl I’m friends with has a ton of Facebook photo albums called like “rude people in China” and it’s her constantly confronting people either saying poo poo to her or trying to take her picture in Shanghai, so I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that this might also be happening outside of Guangzhou

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

"smoke damage"

Ailumao
Nov 4, 2004

The Great Autismo! posted:

the black American girl I’m friends with has a ton of Facebook photo albums called like “rude people in China” and it’s her constantly confronting people either saying poo poo to her or trying to take her picture in Shanghai, so I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that this might also be happening outside of Guangzhou

Of course it does?

I'm not sure what that has to do with me explaining how Guangzhou has a longstanding, especially bad racism-towards-black-people problem and the weird coincidence all the examples of hotels/restaurants/apartments banning black people recently are from Guangzhou (afaik, the ones I've seen have all been GZ). I didn't say "this doesn't happen in Shanghai or anywhere else" lol

All I said about Shanghai was that basically none of my coworkers had seen those comic strips of the dudes throwing foreigners in the trash till I asked if they had seen them.

Ailumao fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Apr 13, 2020

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

SelenicMartian posted:

"smoke damage"

it gets in the carpet and the woodwork

what do you mean fire hazards on a warship?

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The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Magna Kaser posted:

Of course it does?

I'm not sure what that has to do with me explaining how Guangzhou has a longstanding, especially bad racism-towards-black-people problem and the weird coincidence all the examples of hotels/restaurants/apartments banning black people recently are from Guangzhou (afaik, the ones I've seen have all been GZ). I didn't say "this doesn't happen in Shanghai or anywhere else" lol

All I said about Shanghai was that basically none of my coworkers had seen those comic strips of the dudes throwing foreigners in the trash till I asked if they had seen them.

I misread ur post

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