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DeathChicken posted:They'll put the original Final Fantasy 7 in as a Gold Saucer game. Sephiroth will hover over your shoulder the entire time. "Oh, you died to Carry Armor again. That's just like you....Cloud." Since there are now multiple bosses and enemies in this that do the Carry Armor gimmick of temporarily removing party members from the fight, I'm suddenly very afraid of what they'll come up with for Carry Armor to improve on that
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Apr 16, 2020 22:17
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Zaa Boogie posted:So, I really do have to ask in regards to this: They treated the fact that they would be throwing out the plot of the original game as a secret plot twist that people discover while playing. Thus they hid the fact that they're making a divergent game with a possibly radically different plot. They said there would be new surprises, they didn't say it would be the start of a completely different thing. Fans who expected an improved version of the original with the plot more or less intact were surprised. Handling it better would have been announcing beforehand that "Remake" is closer to "Reboot" than "Remastering" and that there would be major differences in plot. edit: I have work to do I'm going to chill out with my posting here.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:18
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Flopsy posted:So just for the hell of putting it out there what exactly are y'all hoping for in the next game? Plot wise, character wise, etc. I hope Elena gets a larger piece of the story pie. I need to see HD renders of all the characters in disguise as Shinra military. And I want Chadley to just constantly be in every town regardless of how much sense it makes. In all seriousness, I'm guessing the game gets as far as Rocket Town at least, maybe even as far as Temple of the Ancients. Aerith left the party in the original after the events of Temple of the Ancients, so I think it'd be a good place for the story to pick up, assuming events playing out as expected. I'm hoping, but don't expect Wutai yet. Instead I think we'll get Yuffie, and Rufus's parade will coincide with the deployment of Shinra troops to the front. I hope Dyne gets a bit more than just his one appearance in the prison. Gongaga needs expansion. Nothing happens there in the original, and is completely optional until Cloud wakes up there, and then it's just one scene. Same with Nibelheim, which is practically a pit stop before heading through Mt. Nibel, despite being a very important town in the backstory. The plot never revisits the present-day town in the original, does it? Also Palmer needs to be hit by a truck.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:19
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Flopsy posted:So just for the hell of putting it out there what exactly are y'all hoping for in the next game? Plot wise, character wise, etc. i want them to make all of the decisions that will lead to the most angry, bitter, sad posts in this thread and future threads. all true final fantasy fans will agree with me, i think
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Apr 16, 2020 22:19
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Harrow posted:I think if they want to sell some sort of outside-of-time, spacetime weirdness, doing it through Jenova would work well, too. Even to players of the original her true nature is pretty fuzzy. Casting Jenova as an almost Lavos-like figure capable of operating independently of time and using that as the reason why Sephiroth now has foreknowledge (along with Cloud getting hazy flash-forwards through his Jenova cells) would be cool. Jenova and Lavos explicitly being the same entity would be the exact kind of stupid game theory decision I would lap up
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Apr 16, 2020 22:20
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Vino posted:Sorry I don't understand, wouldn't this imply they wouldn't have done what they did? I'm just spitballing, so I'm not being terribly explicit in that post. I'll rephrase: worrying / speculating about fan reaction likely had a pinpoint source within Squeenix's demographic studies. I get that a company would likely be pushed to create a more conservative, change-less game, but chances are that development was already under way, or the team just couldn't not-change some things, y'know?
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Apr 16, 2020 22:21
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MyLoathsomeCowboy posted:Jenova and Lavos explicitly being the same entity would be the exact kind of stupid game theory decision I would lap up So what we want is for FF7 to take on the canon from Dissidia? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOD6Zn3fF5s
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Apr 16, 2020 22:23
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Vino posted:They treated the fact that they would be throwing out the plot of the original game as a secret plot twist that people discover while playing. Thus they hid the fact that they're making a divergent game with a possibly radically different plot. They said there would be new surprises, they didn't say it would be the start of a completely different thing. Fans who expected an improved version of the original with the plot more or less intact were surprised. Handling it better would have been announcing beforehand that "Remake" is closer to "Reboot" than "Remastering" and that there would be major differences in plot. there's no evidence that it's going to be a completely different thing. there's speculation. the first section and the major plot beats therein are pretty much the same as the original. they're still hunting Sephiroth. Shinra is still bad. they blew up the reactors. Aerith is trying to stop Sephiroth and Red XIII was never more than just along for the ride until Cosmo Canyon anyway. Tifa is following because she has nowhere else to go and wants to follow Cloud, and Barret has always been about protecting the planet and Sephiroth is a threat to the planet.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:23
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Just Andi Now posted:I hope Elena gets a larger piece of the story pie. I need to see HD renders of all the characters in disguise as Shinra military. And I want Chadley to just constantly be in every town regardless of how much sense it makes. I'm interested to see how Elena's interactions with Reno and Rude play out as she's young and genuinely believes in Shinra's cause while Reno and Rude are shown to have hit the point where they're having doubts. That would be some interesting interaction right there. Also Palmer needs to be hit by two trucks. The force of the first sending him careening into the second and while he's laying in the road Cid shuffles over and take the longest most passive aggressive sip of tea ever.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:24
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Zaa Boogie posted:So, I really do have to ask in regards to this: I don't know about fan expectations as such, but honestly, I would've at least liked to see some respect for basic storytelling stuff like not giving away big lategame developments as soon as they could. A gradual buildup of suspense and questions as the games went on, in order to keep the punch when those developments hit would've been nice. Really, anything but throwing out rapidfire "Sephiroth kills Aerith, he wants to Meteor the planet, and Cloud isn't a SOLDIER, and is stealing Zack's identity" stuff. Make those actual developments rather than unceremoniously throwing them out. Let new players have the same experience of just small hints that don't seem at all important at the time.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:26
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:So what we want is for FF7 to take on the canon from Dissidia? well if they insist on doing the timeline stuff after this one, then ain't no gettin offa this train we on
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Apr 16, 2020 22:27
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MyLoathsomeCowboy posted:Jenova and Lavos explicitly being the same entity would be the exact kind of stupid game theory decision I would lap up I would lose my poo poo. Golden Saucer, Midgar Zolom, slapfight, none of it would get me as hype as fuckin Chrono Trigger cameos.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:28
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Vino posted:They treated the fact that they would be throwing out the plot of the original game as a secret plot twist that people discover while playing. Thus they hid the fact that they're making a divergent game with a possibly radically different plot. They said there would be new surprises, they didn't say it would be the start of a completely different thing. Fans who expected an improved version of the original with the plot more or less intact were surprised. Handling it better would have been announcing beforehand that "Remake" is closer to "Reboot" than "Remastering" and that there would be major differences in plot. See, I find it weird that you call it throwing out the plot of the original game when a key point of this game existing is that that same plot existed in the first place. I also disagree that what you're describing would be handling it 'better'. It's like saying Kojima should have been upfront with telling people that you wouldn't be playing as Snake after the tanker mission in MGS2. I, personally, love everything about this game. I dig the fact that they're trying something new, I dig the fact that what they're doing might surprise people. I seriously disagree against the claim that they're trying to replace, re-do or ignore the original game. This, to me, is meant to be a companion to the original, not a replacement. Also for how often stuff is dropped early in leaks and datamining I'm pretty happy that this wasn't. ACES CURE PLANES posted:I don't know about fan expectations as such, but honestly, I would've at least liked to see some respect for basic storytelling stuff like not giving away big lategame developments as soon as they could. A gradual buildup of suspense and questions as the games went on, in order to keep the punch when those developments hit would've been nice. Well, to be honest, who would those punches be for? If you hadn't played the original you'd be more in on the mystery. For those that had this is acknowledgement of the original and a show of 'well, something isn't quite right here' before things *really* go nuts in the end game. Zaa Boogie fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 22:33
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Sad news today, Keiji Fujiwara the japanese voice for Reno, Axel and whole shitload of other characters has succumbed to cancer. Just found out this was on the 12th so probably late to the party with this.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:33
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The way I see things is Cloud threw Sephiroth into the lifestream in the Nibelheim reactor. This lets him hang out in there until he makes the chrysalis at the north crater. I'm thinking that the lifestream and the planet both have a set destiny, to use the game's terms, and Sephiroth sees this and tries to defy his eventual loss. To accomplish this, he influences his clones to mess with Cloud and Aeris. The Sephiroth Clones, as they are known, are those number tattooed individuals. Cloud seems to see them as Sephiroth when the OG is using them, I'm guessing. Everytime he does this, the Whispers appear and try to set things back on track. This has the secondary effect of making other people start to Defy Destiny which seems to affect everyone they run into as well. So, Aeris is affected, then she meets Cloud, he then sees them, then Tifa, and so on. (Rufus seeing them, but Tseng not being able to makes sense this way.) This reaches the tipping point at the Shinra building because OG sephiroth stops playing around and breaks Jenova out. He then drops what I call the "Jenova Bomb," essentially the boss fight with Jenova. Since this is greatly agaist canon, the Whispers go Code Red and swarm everything to try to fix it. This works because Jenova is the main enemy to the planet and the Whispers are the planet's defense mechanism. It reminded me of white blood cells attacking an infection. So, the ending events are Sephiroth taking the opportunity to put the heroes against the whispers. He does this by cutting open a hole to himself, the OG, in the lifestream. The Whispers try to pull out all the stops to stop you going to him, but you break through which lets you fight a Sephiroth Clone, the one who opened the hole. Beating him lets Cloud meet the OG Sephiroth in the lifestream, just like the final moments of the original game. However, in that game, Cloud defeats him with Omnislash. In this one, Cloud loses. Sephiroth thanks him for changing things and gives Cloud seven seconds to influence things. Which apparently lets him save a few people. I hope someone enjoys this. The final fights seem really random on the first play, but coming up with some context really helps me enjoy them more.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:36
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OK, what was the deal with the crowned cat that appeared out of nowhere during the plate collapse cutscene?
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Apr 16, 2020 22:41
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Sekenr posted:OK, what was the deal with the crowned cat that appeared out of nowhere during the plate collapse cutscene? That's Cait Sithe a cuddly robot cat that's piloted by Reeve.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:43
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:every single person who is super mad about the terrible transgressions this game makes is going to buy the next one anyway. Definitely true for me. It's a very good game! Just hope we never hear about the whispers again and they don't stretch things out as ridiculously as they did in parts of this one.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:44
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Zaa Boogie posted:This, to me, is meant to be a companion to the original, not a replacement. This is exactly what I mean. There were a lot of people wanting this to be a replacement. I know I had a lot of friends who were like "I've never played FF7, or any Final Fantasy before, and I can't wait to see what I've been missing out on." And then it goes and drops so much stuff completely unceremoniously. Zaa Boogie posted:Well, to be honest, who would those punches be for? If you hadn't played the original you'd be more in on the mystery. For those that had this is acknowledgement of the original and a show of 'well, something isn't quite right here' before things *really* go nuts in the end game. For new players, obviously. What even is this question? Personal experiences with friends who were waiting for this aside, I've seen a lot of people say the quote from above in threads like the PS4 and RPG threads here on SA, and like, for whose benefit is putting in stuff like saying that Cloud isn't a SOLDIER straight out there? Old fans already knew it, and for new people, that just completely takes a mystery off the table. In the original game, it wasn't until a good 80% of the way through the game that you got it, but here we're getting it in what's equivalent to the first 20%. Why can't they just do what they did before and slowly do little things like Tifa nervously fidgeting or stammering out excuses when confronted with Cloud saying poo poo that doesn't match up with her experiences? What good does it do to just say it up front like that?
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Apr 16, 2020 22:45
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Wedge survived falling off the pillar just so he could be made to fall off the tallest building in the world instead
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Apr 16, 2020 22:45
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Hojo getting rescued by the Dementors makes me realize he's almost certainly smart enough to cotton to what happened, and that he'd probably be very amused by abusing it. Rubrum: We gotta go, Hojo's throwing himself off the tower. Viridi: Again!?
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Apr 16, 2020 22:46
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Definitely true for me. It's a very good game! Just hope we never hear about the whispers again and they don't stretch things out as ridiculously as they did in parts of this one. I'm surprised this isn't the bigger criticism tbh. I think pretty much everyone undertands that the game had to be split even aside from financial considerations, but even if Midgar was kind of a natural stopping point, it meant they had to pad it out a fair amount to even make it a respectable length. Some of that meant more character attention (the extra stuff with the Avalanche gang was great), but some of it was just tedious (Drums, second time in the sewers). To be fair, I guess we already knew all of that would be true for a while, so nobody can be surprised about it the way some people are about the plot. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 22:47
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PBnJamo posted:The way I see things is Cloud threw Sephiroth into the lifestream in the Nibelheim reactor. This lets him hang out in there until he makes the chrysalis at the north crater. I'm thinking that the lifestream and the planet both have a set destiny, to use the game's terms, and Sephiroth sees this and tries to defy his eventual loss. To accomplish this, he influences his clones to mess with Cloud and Aeris. The Sephiroth Clones, as they are known, are those number tattooed individuals. Cloud seems to see them as Sephiroth when the OG is using them, I'm guessing. This is a stellar attempt to apply coherent storytelling to the mass of gibberish we actually got. Please find a way to infiltrate Square Enix's localization team in the next year.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:50
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morallyobjected posted:there's no evidence that it's going to be a completely different thing. there's speculation. ~~~~SOME POSTS LATERRR~~~~ PBnJamo posted:Everytime he does this, the Whispers appear and try to set things back on track. This has the secondary effect of making other people start to Defy Destiny which seems to affect everyone they run into as well. So, Aeris is affected, then she meets Cloud, he then sees them, then Tifa, and so on. (Rufus seeing them, but Tseng not being able to makes sense this way.)
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Apr 16, 2020 22:51
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:For new players, obviously. What even is this question? Personal experiences with friends who were waiting for this aside, I've seen a lot of people say the quote from above in threads like the PS4 and RPG threads here on SA, and like, for whose benefit is putting in stuff like saying that Cloud isn't a SOLDIER straight out there? Old fans already knew it, and for new people, that just completely takes a mystery off the table. In the original game, it wasn't until a good 80% of the way through the game that you got it, but here we're getting it in what's equivalent to the first 20%. Why can't they just do what they did before and slowly do little things like Tifa nervously fidgeting or stammering out excuses when confronted with Cloud saying poo poo that doesn't match up with her experiences? What good does it do to just say it up front like that? So I played the Remake with my wife and by the end she was confused and not super into it. Mostly she had questions about that black haired guy (Zach) and Sephiroth. Without the context of the original game nothing about Sephiroth's actions, or our characters actions in response to him, make much sense. Also as much as I liked the Remake's version of Cloud my wife really didn't and I think that's because we end the game barely at the start of his narrative arc.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:57
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MoaM posted:~~~~SOME POSTS LATERRR~~~~ that sure is speculation, alright. I'm not saying they're NOT going to change things. I'm saying acting like we know what they're going to change/not change at this point and judging them for it is dumb. I'm in the camp of people who will be absolutely fine if they change the story beats, but I'm not going to pretend to know how much they're going to deviate from the original
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Apr 16, 2020 22:59
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The new One Winged Angel is kind of growing on me, not as a replacement for the original (which the Advent Children version was for me), but just as another version. I still think it's probably too busy though.
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Apr 16, 2020 23:03
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There is one track in the game I frigging adored, it plays when you get to the end of the High Flyers combat sim mission. I don't know what the name of it is, but man, it made me want to punch everything in the face
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Apr 16, 2020 23:08
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Zaa Boogie posted:See, I find it weird that you call it throwing out the plot of the original game when a key point of this game existing is that that same plot existed in the first place. I also disagree that what you're describing would be handling it 'better'. It's like saying Kojima should have been upfront with telling people that you wouldn't be playing as Snake after the tanker mission in MGS2. This is like apples and oranges my man: MGS1 and MGS2 are directly related. I get that the meta-narrative analysis of MGS2 has become very common to understand even for people who aren't diehard fans, but the mere existence of a game in our world called "MGS1" is not a part of the story.
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Apr 16, 2020 23:11
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homeless snail posted:tbh it is mostly this line that I think is a loving gross, bad take, but not an uncommon one Their allegorical role is significantly more important than their diegetic role, though, and I'm not sure why it's a "gross, bad take" when... that's exactly what the Whispers are. They represent purist fans who do not want to see anything changed, or at least the pressures to not change anything that was successful, even if you think it could be improved. So.
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Apr 16, 2020 23:11
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FF7 and FF7 Remake are absolutely related though, its right there in the title. You don't throw the word "Remake" in your title if you're not intentionally trying to draw comparisons to a pre-existing work.
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Apr 16, 2020 23:17
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guts and bolts posted:Their allegorical role is significantly more important than their diegetic role, though, and I'm not sure why it's a "gross, bad take" when... that's exactly what the Whispers are. They represent purist fans who do not want to see anything changed, or at least the pressures to not change anything that was successful, even if you think it could be improved. So. I really don't think the ghosts represent the fans. If you really want to take it down that route surely they would be more representative of potential Squeenix higher ups that don't want to greenlight any radical changes, because unlike fans they'd have actual real power in controlling the narrative. If the ghosts were the fans their whole deal of being able to have actual physical effects on the world doesn't really fit. Regardless though, I don't think this is a particularly accurate reading.
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Apr 16, 2020 23:19
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Flopsy posted:So just for the hell of putting it out there what exactly are y'all hoping for in the next game? Plot wise, character wise, etc.
There's other stuff, but I also found it interesting that they elected to make some Limits into weapon skills and made others into improved, flashier versions of what they used to be. I called that there would be scant few actual Limits and that the ones that didn't get picked from their tier would become weapon abilities right after I played the demo in... some thread or another, but now that that has basically actually occured I'm curious to see what makes the cut for whom. I'm also super excited to see how they handle the rest of the party if they leave the battle system more or less intact - like what Cid, Yuffie, Vincent, Red XIII, and even Cait Sith's unique actions will be and whether or not they'll continue to make weapons basically side-grades for one another instead of "found a new weapon, better equip it until I find the next one because it's expressly better."
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Apr 16, 2020 23:23
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guts and bolts posted:Their allegorical role is significantly more important than their diegetic role, though, and I'm not sure why it's a "gross, bad take" when... that's exactly what the Whispers are. They represent purist fans who do not want to see anything changed, or at least the pressures to not change anything that was successful, even if you think it could be improved. So. This is like all those Star Wars readings about how Rise of Skywalker is all about making owns on Rian Johnson fans, its dumb culture war poo poo e: i'm not trying to call you out specifically or anything, sorry if you feel like I am. I just have a time ghost style flash forward of "Actually The Ghosts Are Reddit" being one of those extremely common but bad faith readings you get on youtube or whatever, and its making me grumpy homeless snail fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 23:23
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homeless snail posted:Yeah its absolutely also a metaphorical storytelling device and IMO one that's pretty effective, but it isn't solely metaphorical, they are also literal time ghosts and the game tells you who they are. And the next game will probably continue to deal with them in that capacity, even if their metaphorical role has served its purpose. A thousand times this. A lot of people in this thread aren't taking the story of FF7:RE at face value and getting really anxious about fandom squabbles, or who isn't or is accepting of change...like none of that should really be a significant point of discussion...the game is going to change / not change whether we like it or not. There are time ghosts now.  guts and bolts posted:Their allegorical role is significantly more important than their diegetic role, though... The FF7 fans in Midgar are up in arms. MoaM fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 23:24
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I really don't think the ghosts represent the fans. If you really want to take it down that route surely they would be more representative of potential Squeenix higher ups that don't want to greenlight any radical changes, because unlike fans they'd have actual real power in controlling the narrative. If the ghosts were the fans their whole deal of being able to have actual physical effects on the world doesn't really fit. homeless snail posted:I agree with the first part, I just don't understand the leap of second one of "i'm very much smarter than the rubes that dont like it, so the game is making fun of them and praising me for being smart". The ghosts can represent resistance to change without specifically making it An Own edit: homeless snail posted:e: i'm not trying to call you out specifically or anything, sorry if you feel like I am. I just have a time ghost style flash forward of "Actually The Ghosts Are Reddit" being one of those extremely common but bad faith readings you get on youtube or whatever, and its making me grumpy guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 23:27
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MoaM posted:A thousand times this. Yeah, I think I'll leave my own position as "I super dug it, I can see why some wouldn't, still looking forward to this off rails roller coaster ride".
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Apr 16, 2020 23:28
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homeless snail posted:its dumb culture war poo poo
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Apr 16, 2020 23:28
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If anything, it's pretty interesting that the one glaring failure of the Whispers is that they *tried* to kill Wedge, but apparently he was Just Too Thicc for a cinderblock falling on him from the sky to do it. Unless they got him on the second effort, the game very much leaves that up in the air.
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Apr 16, 2020 23:30
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guts and bolts posted:
I was on board with everything until the last bit. Sorry man but I love me some Roche. He's an absolute doofus and I am a morosexual.
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Apr 16, 2020 23:32
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