The NFL Draft Thread 2020 - it's ok if he hurts his leg he's got tua them

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Grittybeard: Mar 29, 2010; Bad, very bad!

Ehud posted:

6 days

As someone who for once doesn't really give a crap about the draft: is it easy to separate draft stress from all the other stress or does everything just fall into one big pile?

I am so incredibly mellow about the draft this year and don't care if my team trades up to take a first round running back at all. I mean I'd get faux mad and talk about how I think it'd work out or not but, like, I'm generally good with whatever.

e: :lol:

I just re-read this and realized what an rear end I sound like. But honestly it's weird to me that I care so little about something I cared so much about every year up to now as far as fandom goes.

Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Apr 17, 2020

# ? Apr 17, 2020 15:52

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 00:02

Diva Cupcake: Aug 15, 2005

Here's McGinn's quarterback post.

https://theathletic.com/1752494/2020/04/17/mcginns-nfl-draft-series-scouts-on-top-quarterbacks/

quote:

On a scale of 1 to 10, what would be your level of concern regarding Tua Tagovailoa�s injury history?

A total of 18 executives in personnel were asked that question over the last three weeks, and their responses indicated deep-seated worry about the short- and long-term future for the left-handed quarterback from Alabama.

With 10 as the high end of the scale, the average for the panel was 7.6. There were three 10�s, seven 8�s, four 7�s, three 6�s and one 4.

�There is concern, serious concern, about the durability,� said a high-placed personnel man for an NFC team. �The ankle, the hip, the size, you name it. It�s hard because you can�t get your hands on him.�

Physicians from every team had the opportunity to examine Tagovailoa at the NFL combine in late February. The annual recheck scheduled for Indianapolis earlier this month was canceled because of the COVID-19 pandemic along with all other team-administered medical activities. Tagovailoa�s representatives recently released video of the quarterback stepping through movement drills. They say he has been cleared to compete. �That�s all agent stuff,� an AFC personnel man said. �I�m playing the odds. I don�t want to put my whole franchise on a left-handed, beat-up, 6-foot quarterback. No thank you.�

It�s known that three teams have Tagovailoa off their draft boards entirely. �It all depends on your doctors,� said one executive. How far Tagovailoa slips, if, in fact, he slips at all, will be one of the central storylines during Thursday�s draft. �He�s a great college player but, wow, he is fragile,� another AFC personnel man said. �He�s a super kid and I don�t wish ill will, but there�s three, four or five red flags staring us all in the face saying, �You know what? This guy�s not going to be all that he�s cracked up to be.��

Certainly the worst of Tagovailoa�s many injuries was the traumatic hip injury that he suffered Nov. 16 at Mississippi State. His right hip was dislocated and the posterior wall was fractured. He was taken by helicopter to a hospital in Birmingham, Ala., and surgery was performed in Houston two days later.

�Our doctors said he�ll probably be with fine with what he�s got now,� one club executive said. �It�s what�s going to happen in Year 5, or whatever. It�s the second contract type stuff. If you�re drafting a guy that high, you�re thinking he�s going to be a dude.

Of particular concern is AVN, short for avascular necrosis, the death of bone tissue due to lost blood supply. It can take years for AVN to develop. �They said if he can get through the first year then the percentage that it will really hurt him is less than 1 percent. The big thing now is the one-year mark. The risk of AVN is roughly 15 percent his first year, then it goes down. It�s more or less arthritis. If you get that early in the hip you�re done.�

Tagovailoa�s medical chart also includes surgery for a left high-ankle sprain, surgery for a right high-ankle sprain, a sprained knee and at least one hand injury requiring surgery.

Under Nick Saban, Alabama conducts intense, physical practices. The perception among scouts is that Crimson Tide players have entered the NFL more beat-up than players from most other schools. Befitting their success, they also have played more games. Still, that doesn�t come close to explaining the medical misfortune that has befallen Tagovailoa, who at 6-foot and 217 pounds almost looks more like a running back than a quarterback.

�When you watch the tape there�s certain guys that get hit and bounce right back up,� said one personnel man. �When Tua gets hit, it looks like a train wreck.�

�The thing is, he exposes himself,� another scout said. �It�s really sad. Kyler Murray is the best. He knows when to go down, when to go out of bounds. Patrick Mahomes is not as good an athlete as Murray but he knows when to go down. This guy tries to get that additional yard. His toughness is a negative factor the way he opens himself up to injuries.

�Tua�s game is a game of movement. I would be scared. I don�t know how the guy�s going to bounce back.�

Perhaps the best thing for Tagovailoa would be if the NFL season for 2020 were delayed or even canceled. It would give him even more time to gird his body for the physical challenges that lie ahead.

�I don�t have a magical answer whether he�s going to stay healthy or not,� said an AFC decision-maker. �It is a concern. He�s had medical issues for much of his career.�

Based on the NFL passer rating scale, Tagovailoa�s career mark of 138.1 in 33 games over three seasons is almost beyond comprehension. A natural comparison would be Steve Young (6-2, 215), the 49ers Hall of Famer who also threw left-handed.

�He�s got a natural feel for the game,� one AFC personnel man said. �He throws the deep ball exceptionally well. He�s got good anticipation and very good accuracy. There�s a lot to like about him.�

Lefthanders, however, have acquired a stigma of sorts from a segment of evaluators. In the last 30 years five lefties have been drafted in the first round: Tim Tebow in 2010, Matt Leinart in �06, Michael Vick in �01, Cade McNown in �99 and Todd Marinovich in �91. All except Vick (6-0, 208, 4.32) turned out to be busts. McNown (6-0 �, 211, 4.75) was similar in size and speed to Tagovailoa, whose 40 time has been estimated by scouts between 4.85 and 4.9. Mark Brunell (6-1, 206, 4.70) is another small lefty who enjoyed a strong 17-year career, being voted to the Pro Bowl twice.

My poll of 17 executives asked each to rank his five best quarterbacks. A first-place vote was worth 5 points, a second-place vote was worth 4 and so forth.

Joe Burrow, with 15 firsts and 83 points, was the runaway winner. Tagovailoa, who had the other two firsts, was second with 60 points.

Following, in order, were Justin Herbert (55 points), Jordan Love (36), Jacob Eason (13), Jake Fromm (three), Anthony Gordon (two), Jalen Hurts (two) and Steven Montez (one).

�This is a flawed group,� said one personnel man. �You have to decide which flaws you�re going to live with.�

quote:

RANKING THE QUARTERBACKS
1. JOE BURROW, LSU (6-3 �, 229, no 40, 1): After three seasons backing up J.T. Barrett and Dwayne Haskins at Ohio State, he transferred to LSU and posted a 90.6 NFL passer rating in 2018. Last year, buoyed by the installation of the Saints� offense by new coordinator Joe Brady, he posted an otherworldly rating of 143.7. �I�ve never seen anything quite like this before,� one scout with 30-plus years in the business said. �He totally dominated college football. He was fascinating to watch. He just reminded me of Peyton Manning. The way that nothing seemed to concern him. When he had to yell at people, he yelled. When he didn�t, he was calm.� He joined Davey O�Brien, Johnny Lujack, Matt Leinart, Cam Newton and Jameis Winston as Heisman Trophy winners who also won the national championship with undefeated teams. �He has a good enough arm and he runs pretty good,� said another scout. �But he has elite, magical ability to process quickly, and his accuracy is unbelievable. Those are the two most important things. Great kid, he�s a leader, tough as poo poo. He�s a coach�s kid and he�ll play a long time. He doesn�t have near the arm talent of Matthew Stafford, but I bet he wins more.� He received a late-round grade a year ago from National Football Scouting. �Never had a guy in the summer I felt he was a backup and in November I said this guy might be the best player in the draft,� said a third scout. �I�ve never seen a guy play at such an efficient level. If people had truth serum poured down their throat, they waited all year for him to fall off the wagon. �This can�t be real.� But he didn�t have a bad quarter all season. And you�re talking about Auburn, Bama, SEC defenses. There�s some reasonable doubt that he�s not going to be as good in the NFL. I don�t know how you can bottle what they put together at LSU this year, but there was magic to it. He was phenomenal.� Tommy Moffitt, the LSU strength coach for 20 years, held the same job at Tennessee when Manning played there. �He told the scouts that he puts them in the same breath,� one personnel man said. Second smallest hands (9 inches) among the top 12 quarterbacks. Scored 34 on the Wonderlic intelligence test. �No, no, no, no, no,� said a fourth scout when asked if Burrow could be compared to Matt Ryan and Kirk Cousins. �This guy�s big-time. Incredible timing and accuracy, incredible pocket poise. He�s amazing off-schedule. He plays with swagger. He doesn�t have a cannon, but he throws a nice deep ball.� From Athens, Ohio. �Can he do it at the next level? Does he have a strong enough arm?� said a fifth scout. �I don�t see it. I wouldn�t want him (as a high pick). He�s a great kid, he really is. I just don�t see him as the guy. His junior year he was the shits. Then they bring in the new offense, everything changed and he�s got all those great receivers around him, too. Nine-inch hands. Soft body build.�

2. TUA TAGOVAILOA, Alabama (6-0, 217, no 40, 1): A quarterbacking prodigy as far back as fourth and fifth grade, Tua �came to Bama so advanced for an 18-year-old kid as far as seeing things and anticipating,� said one scout. �But, like so many kids, that�s it. Despite the fact that his stats are phenomenal, he was in the candy store of life. I think his best days are behind him.� He put up a stunning NFL passer rating of 143.2 in 2019, and 138.1 overall during a three-year career. �Just off the pure talent to play the game, he�s better than Joe Burrow,� said another scout. �He doesn�t have an overpowering arm, but he makes all the throws. He�s got a quick release. He�s got touch, velocity. He�s got the feet to avoid. He�s got really good eyes. Cool under pressure. Slides through the pocket. Really good play-action guy. He doesn�t throw interceptions.� His injury list is almost as long as any player�s in the draft. He has 10-inch hands. �He�s nowhere close to Russell Wilson as far as escaping pressure and making plays on the move,� said a third scout. �He�s not Drew Brees. He shies away a lot in the pocket when people get at him. I just never saw this phenomenal, once-in-a-generation talent.� Some teams are more concerned than others about his 13 on the Wonderlic, the lowest score at the position. �We interviewed him,� said one scout. �He�s smart enough, but he�s an RPO guy. (Steve) Sarkisian (Alabama�s new coordinator in 2019) tried to do pro stuff and he (Tagovailoa) couldn�t handle it mentally because all he�d ever done was RPO stuff. So they went back to RPO.� From Ewa Beach, Hawaii. �He�s kind of been the anointed guy, but I like him less the more I watch him,� another scout said. �He plays a lot of pitch-and-catch in that offense. He�s really accurate hitting those slants. A lot of the quick game stuff he�s excellent. But when there�s chaos in the pocket there�s a dropoff in his effectiveness. Is there ever a tight-window throw on his highlights?�

3. JUSTIN HERBERT, Oregon (6-6, 235, 4.72, 1): Herbert is a four-year starter with a 29-13 record. �If the Oregon kid had Alabama�s receivers or Oklahoma�s receivers or LSU�s receivers he�d be the best one,� said one scout. �He had nobody helping him. He�s got a cannon arm. He runs 4.6. He�s smart as a whip. He�s not a dynamic leader, but remember, Troy Aikman was not a dynamic leader. I�m not saying this guy�s Troy Aikman, but there�s no difference in this guy and the guy at Duke (Daniel Jones) last year. In fact, this kid is a better athlete. He�s got everything, plus he�s a great kid. If you don�t like that drat quarterback at Oregon put the Rose Bowl on and the Pac-10 championship.� Herbert posted an NFL passer rating of 106.4. �He took some knocks about his personality,� said a second scout. �The word �introvert� was thrown around. That couldn�t be further from the truth. He�s just a nice, genuine kid and is comfortable in his own skin.� All-around prep athlete grew up in the shadows of Oregon�s Autzen Stadium in Eugene. �I like him, to a degree,� said a third scout. �I don�t think he�s an elite player. He�s kind of robotic and mechanical. Accuracy�s off. He has the classic looks of an NFL quarterback. That�s that guy that has burned a lot of people in the past. Big, tall, good-looking, interviews well, smart, throws the ball a mile, all that stuff. (Blaine) Gabbert. Jared Goff. Not a lot of vision. Not a really good playmaker.� Herbert posted a Wonderlic of 25.

4. JORDAN LOVE, Utah State (6-3 �, 224, 4.71, 1-2): Love is a fourth-year junior from Bakersfield, Calif. �He has the most physical upside of any of these guys,� said one scout. �The great ones make things look easy. He makes it look easy. He�s an effortless thrower. He played with nobody around him. This year he was just out there winging it trying to make plays to win games. Did he develop some bad habits? Yeah, of course he did. But you can rein that in. It�s (easier) to get guys that like to play it safe and check down and be chain-movers. It�s hard to get those guys that push the ball down the field. He�s the only quarterback I ever scouted who will throw into bigger windows as a pro than he did in college. Those guys did not get open for him. If he ends up outside the top 10 we could be saying, �How the heck did Jordan Love last that long?� He�s just got that play-making ability.� In 2018, his best season, his NFL passer rating was 110.7. Last year, with a depleted supporting cast, it was 82.8 for a career mark of 92.0. Career record was 21-11. �The body language was awful and the accuracy was worse,� another scout said. �He didn�t look like he knew what he was doing or that he wanted to play. There were numerous times he�s looking right at an open wideout or a tight end coming right in the middle and the two linebackers are on the hashes and there�s a receiver standing in the middle of the field and he doesn�t throw it to him. Or he throws it to him late. I don�t think he�s correctable.� His vertical jump of 35 � inches tied Herbert for the best among the top quarterbacks. Cited for marijuana possession in December. �He�s a risk-reward guy,� a third scout said. �You question the makeup. He got (cited) for weed. You don�t want the face of your franchise getting (cited) for weed � (Editor�s note: Charges were ultimately dropped in January). It�s really going to take some time because the offense he played in is pretty simple. But a terrific athlete, quick release, plenty of arm, big hands (10 �), great touch, accurate on the move. But poor decisions, question his focus, his vision, his accuracy against pressure. He�s soft-spoken and confident. Not great on the board. You know, good luck.� Love posted a Wonderlic of 27.

5. JACOB EASON, Washington (6-6, 231, 4.87, 1-2): The prized recruit spent two years at Georgia before transferring when Jake Fromm entrenched himself as the Bulldogs� starter. �I�d take him easily over Jordan Love,� said one scout. �I�m going to tell you something. He�s got talent. He can be exceptionally accurate, but he�s a hot and cold guy. That�s the way he was at Georgia. But he�s a real immature kid.� Eason started one year in Seattle, finishing with an NFL passer rating of 98.5 after going 80.5 at Georgia in comparable playing time. �He�s the prototypical bust,� a second scout said. �He�s big and he�s tall and he�s pretty lookin�. He can throw it through a brick wall. But knowing how to play the position, having poise, mental processing � it�s just not there. And he needed another year. He got really bad advice. Mel Tucker dialed up some pressure stuff on him and he was a deer in the headlights against Colorado. Unfortunately, he�s not going to have a chance to get a lot of reps and get that stuff down. He�s not going to play enough football moving forward. I think the NFL game is going to be way too fast for him.� Eason is from Lake Stevens, Wash and posted a Wonderlic of 23.

6. JALEN HURTS, Oklahoma (6-1, 221, 4.62, 2-3): Hurts won 38 of 42 starts in a three-year career at Alabama and a final season for the Sooners. �The thing he did in that SEC Championship Game, when he got benched and came in off the bench and won the game, might be one of the greatest moments in sports,� one scout said. �He can run, he�s a great kid and he�s tough. He�s a winner. I just think he�s a packaged quarterback. You�ve got to put certain plays in for him. He�s a third-teamer for me.� NFL passer ratings were 95.0 in 2016, 107.0 in �17, 134.5 in �18 and 128.9 in �19 for a composite of 111.6. �You love the makeup and the intelligence,� said another scout. �On tape, he�s just not a natural quarterback. He�s mechanical, one read. Can make plays with his legs. Accuracy was the question mark. At the combine he was amazing with his accuracy, especially on those post-corners and deep routes. But I just don�t see a starting talent as far as the quick process and making plays with your arm in the pocket or on the move that you need to be a consistent, winning starter. But you want him on your team.� Hurts is from Houston and posted a Wonderlic of 18.

7. JAKE FROMM, Georgia (6-2, 219, 4.94, 3): Fromm is a third-year junior. �He doesn�t have 50 percent of the talent that Eason has, but I�d take a shot at the kid,� said one scout. �You get a good, solid kid who can just win games for you. His size and talent level are about as minimum as you can get. He�s got some leadership. He�s not going to be the mouthy f�� backup who says, �I should be starting, I should be starting,� like some of those guys.� He played so well that both Justin Fields and Eason bolted for Ohio State and Washington, respectively. �I think he�s a better player than Andy Dalton was coming out,� said another scout. �He�s a winning starter. People are going to talk themselves out of Jake because he�s got average physical traits, but he is off the charts above the neck. He�s getting hurt by this (pandemic) because he can�t get in front of teams as much. Teams would fall in love with Jake if they could spend time with him.� NFL passer rating of 108.5. �He�s not even as good as the kid that came out of there a few years ago,� said a third scout. �(Aaron) Murray. He can�t throw. Inaccurate.� Fromm posted a Wonderlic score of 35 and has the smallest hands at the position (8 7/8). �No,� a fourth scout said. �Everything you worried about him on tape he confirmed it at the combine. Very limited. At the combine he was sandwiched between Eason and Herbert, which made it even worse for him. He looked like, �Who let that guy out there?�� Fromm is from Warner Robins, Ga.

8. ANTHONY GORDON, Washington State (6-2 �, 205, no 40, 4-5): Gordon played at a junior college in 2015, redshirted at WSU in �16 and sat behind Luke Falk in �17 and Gordon Minshew in �18. He broke out with 5,579 passing yards and an NFL passer rating of 108.1 in �19. �I like that little guy,� said one scout. �Mid to late. He�s similar to Minshew the way he has that carefree, backyard play style. Quick delivery. Move around. Just chuck it around. Doesn�t have the best arm. Not the most physically imposing. He�d be an ideal backup who could make some magic happen for a minute. The kid hasn�t taken a snap under center since he was a sophomore in high school.� Gordon is from Pacifica, Calif., and posted a Wonderlic score of 25. �Gardner Minshew kind of opened people�s eyes that quarterbacks can come out of that system,� another scout said. �One of those mid-to-late round guys you take a flier on.�

9. JAMES MORGAN, Florida International (6-4, 229, 4.90, 4-5): Morgan made 13 starts at Bowling Green in 2016-�17 before seeing the job handed to the brother of one of the Falcons� assistant coaches. He transferred, but was eligible immediately because he had his degree in pre-law. Morgan started two seasons at FIU. �I got him in the fifth (round),� said one scout. �Like the way he plays. He can throw a deep ball. He has a better arm than Nate Stanley. Quick release. Not a real runner. Has issues under pressure. He�s got the physical skills. He�s smart. Take a shot.� His NFL passer ratings were 69.6 at BGSU and 97.9 at FIU for a composite of 85.5. �He was really bad in their opener against Tulane,� said a second scout. �I had a hard time shaking that. He�s got a chance because down there (FIU) they absolutely love the kid. Old-school gym rat. Great leader. The arm�s good enough. Accuracy was the one thing holding me back.� He�s attempting to become the first quarterback drafted from Green Bay since Wisconsin�s Bud Keyes (Green Bay West) went to the Packers in the 10th round in 1988. �The Packers should be able to get him easy after the draft as a free agent,� a third scout said. �I didn�t like him. Just a big, strong guy.� H posted a Wonderlic score of 23.

10. JAKE LUTON, Oregon State (6-6, 222, 5.07, 4-5): Luton spent two years at Idaho, redshirting in 2014 and starting one game in �15. Played in junior college the next year, then started 20 games for the Beavers over three seasons as he battled injury. �He reminds me of Sean Mannion and Derek Anderson,� said one scout. �He�s tall and a decent athlete and has decent arm strength.� He finished with an overall NFL passer rating 93.5. �He�s not bad,� said another scout. �He�s a little wild. You can tell he�s got some good feel for it. Just highly inconsistent. Not a great body for the NFL. Weak kind of frame.� He posted a Wonderlic score of 29 and is from Marysville, Wash.

11. BRIAN LEWERKE, Michigan State (6-2 �, 213, 4.96, 6-7): Lewerke�s NFL passer rating of 79.7 was the poorest of the top 12 quarterbacks. His best year was 2017, his first season as a starter, when his rating was 88.1. �He�s got some talent but he had a terrible, terrible year,� said one scout. �He looked good in 2017. Then he had a rough year in 2018 and this year was awful. It�s like he had the yips. He couldn�t make routine throws. It was tough to watch. Can he play better? Yes, but if you have to make a decision right now I�m saying he�s not going to be a good NFL player.� He rushed for a career-high 559 yards in 2017, finishing with 1,255 on the ground. �He got worse each time I saw him,� said a second scout. �He looks scared to death back there. I�d take him over (Shea) Patterson. He�s a big guy, and he�s mobile. He can run around. The coaches say he�s a terrific person.� Lewerke is from Phoenix, scored a Wonderlic of 25 and has the largest hands (10 5/8) of the group.

12. NATE STANLEY, Iowa (6-3 �, 235, 4.80, 6-7): A three-year starter with a 27-12 record, Stanley �could probably be an adequate No. 3, but he�s more of a safety third than a developmental third,� said one scout. �Because he�s smart (Wonderlic of 40) and he�s played a lot of football and he�s a good guy. He�d be hard to draft because there�s no upside for him.� His NFL passer ratings declined in each of his seasons as a starter, and his career mark was 91.9. �I just think he�s a dinosaur,� a second scout said. �He can�t move. He�s got a strong arm. Big, strong kid. But he is definitely sackable. Not a lot of personality at all. Just didn�t have any juice to him. It�s not that he�s this overwhelmingly great leader.� Stanley is from Menomonie, Wis.

OTHERS, in order: Steven Montez, Colorado; Case Cookus, Northern Arizona; Cole McDonald, Hawaii; Reid Sinnett, San Diego; Shea Patterson, Michigan; Kevin Davidson, Princeton; Nick Tiano, Chattanooga; Kelly Bryant, Missouri.

THE SKINNY
UNSUNG HERO

Case Cookus, Northern Arizona: Teams looking for a sleeper at quarterback have been paying considerable attention to this snakebit gunslinger from the FCS ranks. Both his 2016 and �18 seasons were ended before mid-season by a broken right collarbone. Cookus (6-3, 208) has good size, a functional arm and smarts. He threw for 12,082 yards and 105 touchdowns in his career for an NFL passer rating of 107.6. Described by one scout as a �no-nonsense leader� who loves the game.

SCOUTS� NIGHTMARE

Shea Patterson, Michigan: If he�s drafted, it would be on the basis of athleticism and escape ability. As a passer, his mechanics and accuracy were off. Several scouts also expressed reservations about his makeup and leadership. He had chances at the Senior Bowl and combine to impress but came up well short. �It�s 50-50 whether he gets drafted,� one scout said.

SCOUT TO REMEMBER

Jake Hallum: This sweet-spoken Southern gentleman couldn�t get enough football. After a playing career at Newberry College in his native South Carolina, he won two state titles as a high-school coach in Kentucky before embarking on a long career as a collegiate head coach (Morehead State) and offensive-line coach under Jerry Claiborne at Maryland and Kentucky. Residing in Lexington, Ky., he finished his career as a senior area scout for the Eagles, Patriots and Browns. �To know Jake was to love him,� longtime scout Greg Gabriel wrote shortly after his death. �I don�t think there was a man with more passion and love for the game of football than Jake.� He died in 2015 at age 76.

QUOTE TO NOTE

NFL personnel executive: �I was taught when I first came into the business to believe your eyes, not your ears. It turned out to be very good advice.�

# ? Apr 17, 2020 15:59

Hamhandler: Aug 9, 2008; [I want to] shit in your fucking mouth. [I'm going to] slap your fucking mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. Fuck you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you.

I think the idea of moving a big, physical WR to TE is kind of a questionable idea.

It really doesn't matter what they're going to call him unless he's lining up in a position to create a gap in the run game(In-line, in the backfield, maybe that very near slot position Jimmy Graham used to do with the Saints a lot). Doing that kind of stuff doesn't automatically mean you're drawing a LB in the run game or anything like that, everyone and their mother at this point is prepared to go with an extra DB if your extra guy can't block.

There's so few actual guys who are good at getting a release off of the LOS as a true in-line TE, it seems wild that you're going to try and teach a WR how to do it too when it's so restrictive compared to getting off of press coverage out wide.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 16:02

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

I'm absolutely giddy

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1251100172228218880?s=20

# ? Apr 17, 2020 16:05

Ehud: Sep 19, 2003; football.

Grittybeard posted:

As someone who for once doesn't really give a crap about the draft: is it easy to separate draft stress from all the other stress or does everything just fall into one big pile?

I am so incredibly mellow about the draft this year and don't care if my team trades up to take a first round running back at all. I mean I'd get faux mad and talk about how I think it'd work out or not but, like, I'm generally good with whatever.

e: I just re-read this and realized what an rear end I sound like. But honestly it's weird to me that I care so little about something I cared so much about every year up to now as far as fandom goes.

I've enjoyed the lead up to this draft. I have so much time to focus on it, we have a million picks, I love to torture myself with the thought of drafting Justin Herbert.

It owns.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 16:09

a neat cape: Feb 22, 2007; Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Ehud posted:

I've enjoyed the lead up to this draft. I have so much time to focus on it, we have a million picks, I love to torture myself with the thought of drafting Justin Herbert.

It owns.

Why torture yourself with the thought of drafting a really good player

# ? Apr 17, 2020 16:17

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

Poor Shea was once the next Michael Vick and then he gets terrible coaching in Oxford before tearing his knee horribly then playing on it for like 8 games, thus permanently damaging it and sapping him of his one asset. Harbaugh didn't help him after the transfer by basically telling DPJ and Nico Collins to run deep every play.

It's cool to see James Morgan get cred. Pull up his youtube highlights the guy has an absolute cannon. Huge guy, willing runner, did a ton of RPO which is good. He's got a problem with touch like most third tier QBs. Still though, he displays great form, great poise in the pocket,, and a hell of an arm. He had huge draft buzz last year but didn't come out for some reason then went back this year and sucked. I thought it would tank his stock but it looks like he's still solidly 2nd day/beginning of 3rd day. That guy could easily be picked up in the second round if his touch was better or if he was younger. Could definitely see him staying in the NFL forever as a high quality backup, like Sean Mannion.

Also glad to see that one scout realize that Joe Burrow isn't a flawless prospect. It's weird that having a great team around you is a red flag, but he really did have an absolute elite offense that will most likely have every single starter go to the NFL in some capacity. He also does just have an average arm. Great accuracy despite the form and a hell of an ability to read the field, but the balls he throws aren't exactly awe inspiring. It's really what your philosophy is. Does every thrown ball have to be a bullet? Does that extra milisecond it takes the ball to get there really influence a play that much?

I have yet to see credible evidence that Justin Herbert is 'smart as a whip'

# ? Apr 17, 2020 17:18

GOOD TIMES ON METH: Mar 17, 2006; Fun Shoe

quote:

�We interviewed him,� said one scout. �He�s smart enough, but he�s an RPO guy. (Steve) Sarkisian (Alabama�s new coordinator in 2019) tried to do pro stuff and he (Tagovailoa) couldn�t handle it mentally because all he�d ever done was RPO stuff. So they went back to RPO.�

# ? Apr 17, 2020 17:38

Play: Apr 25, 2006; Strong stroll for a mangy stray

YOLOsubmarine posted:

How many classes have a guy like that? One every five or ten years? Meanwhile there is very likely another Mike Thomas or Deandre Hopkins or Antonio Brown or Mike Evans in this class. Maybe even a couple of them.

yep, that's all true. and it matches up with the fact that most mock drafts, despite the strength of receiver don't actually start getting receivers off the board until around pick 10 or later

Ches Neckbeard posted:

I'm absolutely giddy

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1251100172228218880?s=20

That's pretty much what we've been noticing actually, that teams seem to have WAY different opinions and I think the because the standard kind of offseason where everyone slowly comes into agreement about prospects hasn't happened this year. Way less to go off, and legitimate arguments that first rounders should be third rounders and vice versa.

Under those conditions I won't be surprised at all when the actual draft is so far off from what we and the media have been thinking

Doltos posted:

Poor Shea was once the next Michael Vick and then he gets terrible coaching in Oxford before tearing his knee horribly then playing on it for like 8 games, thus permanently damaging it and sapping him of his one asset. Harbaugh didn't help him after the transfer by basically telling DPJ and Nico Collins to run deep every play.

It's cool to see James Morgan get cred. Pull up his youtube highlights the guy has an absolute cannon. Huge guy, willing runner, did a ton of RPO which is good. He's got a problem with touch like most third tier QBs. Still though, he displays great form, great poise in the pocket,, and a hell of an arm. He had huge draft buzz last year but didn't come out for some reason then went back this year and sucked. I thought it would tank his stock but it looks like he's still solidly 2nd day/beginning of 3rd day. That guy could easily be picked up in the second round if his touch was better or if he was younger. Could definitely see him staying in the NFL forever as a high quality backup, like Sean Mannion.

Also glad to see that one scout realize that Joe Burrow isn't a flawless prospect. It's weird that having a great team around you is a red flag, but he really did have an absolute elite offense that will most likely have every single starter go to the NFL in some capacity. He also does just have an average arm. Great accuracy despite the form and a hell of an ability to read the field, but the balls he throws aren't exactly awe inspiring. It's really what your philosophy is. Does every thrown ball have to be a bullet? Does that extra milisecond it takes the ball to get there really influence a play that much?

I have yet to see credible evidence that Justin Herbert is 'smart as a whip'

I skipped straight to Anthony Gordon, he's my hobby horse late round guy this year who I think is really promising, he makes some really nice throws. Definitley needs development. James Morgan was another I've been interested in, but I think I like Gordon a bit better for his accuracy.

And I haven't heard anyone say Burrow was a flawless prospect, people were blown away with his performance but you can just look at a lot of the quarterbacks drafted in the last few years and instantly see that Burrow doesn't have a lot of the traits that they do. I still think he'll do okay, although when you add the Bengals into the mix nothing can be taken for granted.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 17:40

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

YOLOsubmarine posted:

How many classes have a guy like that? One every five or ten years? Meanwhile there is very likely another Mike Thomas or Deandre Hopkins or Antonio Brown or Mike Evans in this class. Maybe even a couple of them.

the idea that any class might have a couple Antonio Browns, let alone one, seems wildly optimistic

# ? Apr 17, 2020 17:42

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Doltos posted:

Poor Shea was once the next Michael Vick and then he gets terrible coaching in Oxford before tearing his knee horribly then playing on it for like 8 games, thus permanently damaging it and sapping him of his one asset. Harbaugh didn't help him after the transfer by basically telling DPJ and Nico Collins to run deep every play.

Shea is maybe the worst former 5* guy I can remember in the last few years. Like, he might be as bad as Hack, and I think Hack might have better mechanics than Shea. I never thought he was the greatest passer, but he really needed to have a well-designed short-mid range game to get him going, and it just never happened. Harbaugh kept trying to run midfield through the Tight Ends, who overwhelmingly were not capable of handling it.

quote:

I have yet to see credible evidence that Justin Herbert is 'smart as a whip'

We know he's book smart, and I bet you anything he works really well at the board. Doesn't mean he processes it well on the field. Also, the more I watch his mechanics, he reeeally is giving me Josh Allen vibes. He keeps moving his motion around like he's Mahomes but doesn't ever actually seem to understand what that means.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 17:43

Play: Apr 25, 2006; Strong stroll for a mangy stray

quote:

�I don�t think he�s an elite player. He�s kind of robotic and mechanical. Accuracy�s off. He has the classic looks of an NFL quarterback. That�s that guy that has burned a lot of people in the past. Big, tall, good-looking, interviews well, smart, throws the ball a mile, all that stuff. (Blaine) Gabbert. Jared Goff. Not a lot of vision. Not a really good playmaker.�

I have to agree with this scout, the number one thing that bugs me about Herbert is how stiff and unnatural he seems when he plays. That robotic motion like he's been taught to do it exactly that way every time, except the results don't bear that out. That kind of point and shoot throwing motion he does, it just makes me think he's not a natural in any sense of the word, and I like guys who look natural when they play.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 17:48

Borsche69: May 8, 2014

Roasted Donut posted:

kj hamler and tyler johnson being ranked so low is criminal

tyler johnson is such an insane freak and hes going to end up going in like the 5th cause everyone wont stop slobbering over lovely bama wideouts

# ? Apr 17, 2020 17:52

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

TheGreyGhost posted:

Shea is maybe the worst former 5* guy I can remember in the last few years. Like, he might be as bad as Hack, and I think Hack might have better mechanics than Shea. I never thought he was the greatest passer, but he really needed to have a well-designed short-mid range game to get him going, and it just never happened. Harbaugh kept trying to run midfield through the Tight Ends, who overwhelmingly were not capable of handling it.

We know he's book smart, and I bet you anything he works really well at the board. Doesn't mean he processes it well on the field. Also, the more I watch his mechanics, he reeeally is giving me Josh Allen vibes. He keeps moving his motion around like he's Mahomes but doesn't ever actually seem to understand what that means.

Shea definitely deserves to join the holy trinity of Hackenberg, Perriloux, and Mitch Mustain. The hype he got was just insane which made it all worse, especially when Kelly went down. He also 100% took a massive bribe to play for Ole Miss during that whole huge decommit from Arizona, I'm not sure if that's a bad thing but it's definitely a thing that happened.

Play posted:

I skipped straight to Anthony Gordon, he's my hobby horse late round guy this year who I think is really promising, he makes some really nice throws. Definitley needs development. James Morgan was another I've been interested in, but I think I like Gordon a bit better for his accuracy.

Yea Gordon wasn't a slouch this year. I think he's pretty capped on his development though. The guy has no arm and gets by on his accuracy and decision making. Look at any of his highlights, every single deep ball the WRs have to wait on and the throws down the middle just hang there. Still though his accuracy and decision making are really nice even though the air raid made it easier on him. He's a little tentative with his throws though. Waits a while on routes to develop or for WRs to completely break coverage. Manziel effect in full force on a lot of his highlight scrambles to keep plays alive. Like if you just threw the ball a second earlier you wouldn't be in this situation. I could definitely see him sticking in the NFL with his accuracy though. Probably will get drafted second day just on the basis of Minshew. Funny considering they're polar opposite QBs too.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 17:57

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

Does left handed QB still really matter in TYOOL 2020

# ? Apr 17, 2020 18:01

Grittybeard: Mar 29, 2010; Bad, very bad!

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Does left handed QB still really matter in TYOOL 2020

Feel like Steve Young handled this question a long time ago. It's like the you need to be at least 6'0" thing except even dumber to me because I can at least imagine problems there.

...

Although Young and Vick both got themselves beat to hell constantly trying to extend plays so maybe left handed guys are more injury prone and he's already :ohdear:

# ? Apr 17, 2020 18:14

hifi: Jul 25, 2012

Lmao one scout really loving hates eason

# ? Apr 17, 2020 18:15

hifi: Jul 25, 2012

It is funny how suddenly we're in the david lynch school of casting quarterbacks with regards to being tall handsome and strong.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 18:19

hifi: Jul 25, 2012

Case cookus looked dope a few years back versus ASU but I guess injuries hosed him all up.

Lmao at lewerke getting the michigan state QB treatment from at least one scout

# ? Apr 17, 2020 18:24

Grittybeard: Mar 29, 2010; Bad, very bad!

Really disappointed McGinn didn't do a deep dive into Cole McDonald who is the most fascinating quarterback in the draft this year.

Utterly doomed to be a career backup at best and perhaps out of football after training camp, but still the most fascinating.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 18:26

The Puppy Bowl: Jan 31, 2013; A dog, in the house.

*woof*

Zero chance Case Cookus is a real person. My money is on Case Keenum fall back identity.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 19:13

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

I hear this thread wants McGinn?

https://twitter.com/BobMcGinn/status/1251269216197586947

You're welcome everybody

# ? Apr 17, 2020 23:01

YOLOsubmarine: Oct 19, 2004; When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

indigi posted:

the idea that any class might have a couple Antonio Browns, let alone one, seems wildly optimistic

No, there probably won't be a guy who is ethereally good for a few seasons before he rapes and crazies his way out of the league.

But the point was that none of those guys were physical freaks like Johnson or Jones but they've all turned into amazing receivers because there's a lot more to it than being extremely tall and fast.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 23:20

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

That said it'd be nice to have the best receiver in the NFL not be the dude who broke his kid's arm.

# ? Apr 17, 2020 23:22

Diva Cupcake: Aug 15, 2005

https://twitter.com/JayGlazer/status/1251266281111617536

# ? Apr 17, 2020 23:25

a neat cape: Feb 22, 2007; Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Diva Cupcake posted:

https://twitter.com/JayGlazer/status/1251266281111617536

gently caress off Glazer

# ? Apr 17, 2020 23:27

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Eifert Posting posted:

That said it'd be nice to have the best receiver in the NFL not be the dude who broke his kid's arm.

To be accurate he didn't do that.

Other stuff though

# ? Apr 17, 2020 23:31

Raku: Nov 7, 2012; Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Roll Tide

Eifert Posting posted:

That said it'd be nice to have the best receiver in the NFL not be the dude who broke his kid's arm.

julio never hurt nobody but himself (by staying with the falcons)

# ? Apr 17, 2020 23:48

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

Diva Cupcake posted:

https://twitter.com/JayGlazer/status/1251266281111617536

Weren't 2-10 for sale last year and nothing happened?

# ? Apr 18, 2020 00:03

sirtommygunn: Mar 7, 2013

All picks are for sale, usually not much happens, every reporter lies to get clicks.

# ? Apr 18, 2020 00:17

Diva Cupcake: Aug 15, 2005

Ches Neckbeard posted:

Weren't 2-10 for sale last year and nothing happened?

Yeah but in that case there were no other QBs projected to go top 10. The Giants ended up taking one anyways but it�s not like they needed to trade up for Jones.

This year at least 3 are going top 10.

# ? Apr 18, 2020 00:19

Play: Apr 25, 2006; Strong stroll for a mangy stray

I've been taking a look at James Morgan this afternoon, that dude has an absolute CANNON. I wouldn't be that surprised if he throws harder than Herbert, I watch a whole game of his highlights and didn't see a single pass that wasn't on a rope. That's not necessarily a good thing of course, but the arm talent is there

# ? Apr 18, 2020 00:23

Waroduce: Aug 5, 2008

Ehud posted:

I should become an IT guy for the miami dolphins

I'd have access to everything...

what the hell am I doing with my life

To: Ehud
From: GM@MiamiDolphins.com
How do i open pdf?

Thnx

# ? Apr 18, 2020 00:24

Doctor Teeth: Sep 12, 2008

Case Cookus

# ? Apr 18, 2020 00:27

Silly Burrito: Nov 27, 2007; SET A COURSE FOR
THE FLAVOR QUADRANT

Diva Cupcake posted:

https://twitter.com/JayGlazer/status/1251266281111617536

WHAT A SCOOP

# ? Apr 18, 2020 02:11

Diva Cupcake: Aug 15, 2005

weed guy

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1251315257097596928

# ? Apr 18, 2020 02:46

fsif: Jul 18, 2003

Diva Cupcake posted:

weed guy

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1251315257097596928

Used to love that Taibbi maxim, but hasn't really panned out a ton lately, huh?

# ? Apr 18, 2020 03:32

Kim Jong Il: Aug 16, 2003

4 is definitely for sale. The Giants like Wirfs the best of the OTs, but would be fine with Becton or Wills.

# ? Apr 18, 2020 04:55

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

Kim Jong Il posted:

4 is definitely for sale. The Giants like Wirfs the best of the OTs, but would be fine with Becton or Wills.

With Gettlemans love for huge men there's no way he passes on Becton at 4 if he ends up staying put.

# ? Apr 18, 2020 05:14

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 12, 2024 00:02

BlindSite: Feb 8, 2009

Ches Neckbeard posted:

With Gettlemans love for huge men there's no way he passes on Becton at 4 if he ends up staying put.

Agreed. Gentleman is all about upside and the body. He's like Al Davis was with anyone who could run under a 4.4.

# ? Apr 18, 2020 05:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > The NFL Draft Thread 2020 - it's ok if he hurts his leg he's got tua them

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