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Not only is it far from throttling, but as far as I understand it, you've still got PBO headroom. It's at 75°C that PBO throws its hands up in the air and stops giving you extra boost. If you're holding below 75°C, (and have PBO enabled) you're getting good performance out of the chip..
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Apr 21, 2020 17:57
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Zen2 default behavior is to clock up as you lower the temperature all the way down to well below 0c IIRC, but the gains are minimal and 60-70c under load is very acceptable for a stock cooler.
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Apr 21, 2020 18:25
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Cygni posted:B550 announced too, but no availability for 2 months lol. Dumb. Especially curious, if we assume that B650 will ship with Zen 3 in autumn.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:05
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mdxi posted:Especially curious, if we assume that B650 will ship with Zen 3 in autumn. Why would you even assume B650 to launch at the same time as the X chipsets?
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Apr 21, 2020 19:15
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sauer kraut posted:Why would you even assume B650 to launch at the same time as the X chipsets? My bad. I thought I remembered B450 showing up alongside Zen+, but contemporary articles show that was not the case. Zen+ was April 2018; B450 was 4 months later in August.
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Apr 21, 2020 21:20
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sauer kraut posted:Why would you even assume B650 to launch at the same time as the X chipsets?
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Apr 21, 2020 21:53
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Cygni posted:4/8 Zen 2 CPUs launching next month. $99 MSRP for the r3 3100, $120 for the r3 3300X. You probably shouldn’t buy these parts honestly. Yup, like how much of a sucker you gotta be to pick those over the $80 1600AF or even the $170 3600?
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Apr 22, 2020 03:04
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They're probably so an OEM can put 3rd-gen Ryzen into their computers, $120 is still lower than $170 (and they can probably cut down on cooling too to save 50 cents).
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Apr 22, 2020 09:57
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Palladium posted:Yup, like how much of a sucker you gotta be to pick those over the $80 1600AF or even the $170 3600? The 1600af is a weird anomaly, but yes, its existence makes the more expensive 4 core parts pointless
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Apr 22, 2020 10:45
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The 4 core zen2 parts are actually probably faster for most games so I can see buying one for that purpose as a placeholder with the intent to upgrade to a 6/8c zen3 part when it launches. 1600af is obviously the better choice for long term use, but afaik at least now no games are choking on 4c8t, it's 4c4t that's become an issue.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:16
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I've just purchased a Ryzen 2600 + Tomahawk Max + Ripjaws V 2x8GB 3600CL16, but the RAM refuses to work at 3600mhz. 3333mhz is fine. I followed the techpowerup guide, put all the timings from the calculator but it blue screens within minutes (seconds when running TestMem5). I tried messing around with ProcODT and voltages, with no luck. I guess 3333mhz is as far as the 2600 will let me go? Or is it worth to keep trying?
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Apr 22, 2020 15:09
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The R3 3100 kinda feels right up my alley - the price point is right within my budget, and comparing to how a 3400G performs purely as a CPU it'd be a ~20% gain for me benchmark-wise. I might pick it up if we ever get out of lockdown so I can finally move out of DDR3.
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Apr 22, 2020 15:17
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seravid posted:I've just purchased a Ryzen 2600 + Tomahawk Max + Ripjaws V 2x8GB 3600CL16, but the RAM refuses to work at 3600mhz. 3333mhz is fine. I followed the techpowerup guide, put all the timings from the calculator but it blue screens within minutes (seconds when running TestMem5). I tried messing around with ProcODT and voltages, with no luck. That ripjaws V memory has always been a sticky issue for me in the pcbuild thread, because it isn't on the QVL for the tomahawk max and yet most people seem to report it working from XMP with no tweaks. It's way cheaper than other better memory for ryzens so I give it a pass. Anyways the zen memory controller got improvements in each version so likely Zen 2 CPUs can do 3600 with it and Zen+ can't. I'd just take the 3333, and if you want to tweak something for speed you should be able to lower the tRFC value with the slower cycle time.
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Apr 22, 2020 15:33
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HalloKitty posted:The 1600af is a weird anomaly, but yes, its existence makes the more expensive 4 core parts pointless Yeah that's the thing when using the 1600AF as the comparison, it's just not available in many countries outside of the US. For example I've never seen it available from any Cndn retailer. A 4core/8thread CPU is not gonna have that long a shelf life in the age of new consoles on the horizon yes, I wish 6 core/12 thread was the 'new' low end so this isn't terribly exciting, but for example this is basically replacing the 2200G here as the cheapest AMD option with 4 cores. Doubling the threads, Zen2 arch, slightly higher clocks is actually a pretty significant upgrade. If the 1600AF was an actual new product available worldwide instead of some limited run salvage part that would change things, but for the ultra-low end this is a decent upgrade for some regions.
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Apr 22, 2020 17:24
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It's gonna be great when Athlons/Pentiums move to four cores.
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Apr 22, 2020 17:36
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To me, the $60 price delta to the 3600 is just too small to recommend it, even if the 1600AF and cheap 2600s arent available in your region like they are in the US. If you are truly in an ultra cash strapped situation and need a computer, like going to college, I would probably still recommend the $80 3200G with a plan to add a graphics card and then swap the CPU off the used market in a year or two instead. But as always wait for reviews yadda yadda.
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Apr 22, 2020 17:37
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Klyith posted:That ripjaws V memory has always been a sticky issue for me in the pcbuild thread, because it isn't on the QVL for the tomahawk max and yet most people seem to report it working from XMP with no tweaks. It's way cheaper than other better memory for ryzens so I give it a pass. I should've read more about it, for sure. I was actually planning on getting the 3600, but couldn't justify paying 70€ more over the 2600 while I'm still using a GTX1060. And yeah, I'll definitely play with the timings @ 3333.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:07
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Cygni posted:To me, the $60 price delta to the 3600 is just too small to recommend it, even if the 1600AF and cheap 2600s arent available in your region like they are in the US. If you are truly in an ultra cash strapped situation and need a computer, like going to college, I would probably still recommend the $80 3200G with a plan to add a graphics card and then swap the CPU off the used market in a year or two instead.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:52
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seravid posted:I should've read more about it, for sure. I was actually planning on getting the 3600, but couldn't justify paying 70€ more over the 2600 while I'm still using a GTX1060. Zen+, while having markedly better memory compatibility than Zen1, didn't quite get all the way there. Hell, 3333 sounds fast for what I've heard of Zen+. But even then you're into minute differences territory.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:54
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orcane posted:What's the PCI-e lane situation with the APUs now? IIRC the original Ryzen APUs only had 8 lanes for PEG - which is not a problem in general, but cheapo cards with limited VRAM might suffer a bit (see the RX 5500/4 GB) and they're more likely to be paired with low-cost CPUs like the 3200G/3400G. Renoir is still 3.0x8
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Apr 22, 2020 22:07
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seravid posted:I guess 3333mhz is as far as the 2600 will let me go? Or is it worth to keep trying?
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Apr 23, 2020 01:53
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This was too good to contain to only one thread.Cygni posted:Here's somethin nobody has had the pure sexual force of will to make for the desktop since the Slocket days: https://mobile.twitter.com/Loeschzwerg_3DC/status/1252866671536033793 Intel's policy of changing the socket every generation to drive motherboard and chipet revenue biting them in the rear end. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 01:56
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There's fleets of Epyc boards that won't be updated to handle Rome, but apparently you can trade in those boards that will never support Rome in for a new revision that supports it.
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Apr 23, 2020 02:06
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Our Dell rep told told us that they weren't going to provide firmware updates to support Rome, hedging on some "can't support PCIe 4.0 on all lanes" bullshit reasoning. Hopefully they change this because my workload could really benefit with doubling the core density as an upgrade instead of replacing the whole hardware platform.
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Apr 23, 2020 12:01
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SwissArmyDruid posted:This was too good to contain to only one thread. The poor bastard that had to lay that out deserves a medal.
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Apr 23, 2020 14:15
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https://twitter.com/TUM_APISAK/status/1253307194700730368
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Apr 23, 2020 14:24
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:Our Dell rep told told us that they weren't going to provide firmware updates to support Rome, hedging on some "can't support PCIe 4.0 on all lanes" bullshit reasoning. Hopefully they change this because my workload could really benefit with doubling the core density as an upgrade instead of replacing the whole hardware platform. to be clear there are some supermicro/asrock rack boards that support both generations but limit Rome to PCIe 3.0 for this reason, so it's not so much "can't" as "won't". https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/H11SSL-i https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=EPYCD8-2T#Specifications
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Apr 23, 2020 16:59
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https://twitter.com/TechPowerUp/status/1253248353695076352 So... a Ryzen 3 3300X would perform likely just as well as an i7-7700K? Wtf? What is that benchmark indicative of? Obviously the Zen 2 Ryzen 3 won't perform as well in like gaming, right? Lmao.
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Apr 23, 2020 21:46
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That's without overclocking and the 7700k has quite a bit more headroom, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't perform more-or-less identically to a stock 7700k? It'll probably be identical in most games and slightly worse in games that favor Intel, like Far Cry 5 or Rage 2.
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Apr 23, 2020 22:16
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Also absolutely indicative of nothing without more datapoints because we can't tell if the R3 part's IPC is low or if they're going to clock it up, or if the two are operating in completely different thermal envelopes.
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Apr 23, 2020 23:02
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https://twitter.com/aschilling/status/1253579361384574978
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Apr 24, 2020 10:43
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God, the profit margins on those must be huge since they're just chiplet discards.
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Apr 24, 2020 14:42
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I mean compared to what throwing them out it's all profit. But the cost of production and r&d hasn't really changed so it's not like these cost less to make than a 3900x or whatever.
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Apr 24, 2020 15:06
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IO die is still 14nm, right? Whatever lets them get through their GloFo WSA.
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Apr 24, 2020 17:02
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Margins aside, what kind of volume do they really think is going to move? OEMs office boxes? No iGPU... Maybe in lower average income countries?
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Apr 24, 2020 17:08
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:God, the profit margins on those must be huge since they're just chiplet discards. it depends what the BATNA is, really. I'm misusing that term but what I'm going for is - "rational people think at the margin". What would they have otherwise used that chip for, or would they otherwise have made it, and how does that affect the rest of the stack. yields are incredibly high (early reports were that 80%+ of chips had 8 functional cores) and I doubt there are too many chips with just 2 functional cores on each CCX, or one CCX completely dead but the other one working fine. So I don't think these are mostly die salvage, they are dies that were otherwise usable as 3600s or 3700Xs being cut down and sold to satisfy demand at a cheaper price point. It's the age-old problem, you really actually do have more good chips than bad (on most products, barring stupid poo poo like Titans and -SP tier monolithic server chips), but the demand is highest for the cheapest products that would be using the "bad" chips so you have to lock some good chips down and sell them at lower prices. If you assume the alternative scenario is that AMD sells all of those 3100s and 3300Xs as 3600s or 3700Xs then no, it's losing them money. But there's a reason they're introducing these last, when demand for more expensive SKUs is already filled. If you assume the alternative is that demand is 100% filled and these chips go in the trash, then it's 100% profit, they're selling chips that would not otherwise have sold at a higher price point, that's the ultimate goal of market segmentation, basically just at the cost of the wafer. Or they could have dropped the price of the 3700X and 3600 further, and sold them that way, or they could have ordered fewer wafers and tried to avoid having the selling price of the rest of their stack dragged down. Binning is really complex and there are lots of dimensions of this search space. Reality is somewhere in the middle between "it's a waste of a 3600/3700X being locked down like this" and "it's 100% profit minus the cost of the wafer". It's probably filling some demand that otherwise would not have been convinced to buy a more expensive chip, cancelling out sales of a small number of people who would otherwise have grudgingly bought a 3600, and it is using chips that could otherwise have been marked up more as other SKUs. It's additional revenue, but a reduction in margin. But without a clear idea of what the "best alternative scenario" is it's super hard to put a revenue number on any one particular SKU in the stack. The information you'd need to do that is intensely proprietary and would never be publically discussed in any sort of detail (beyond a high-level "we're getting yields of x%" sort of thing). Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 17:29
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Seamonster posted:Margins aside, what kind of volume do they really think is going to move? OEMs office boxes? No iGPU... Maybe in lower average income countries? One thing that hanging out on r/AMD has taught me is that there are, in fact, super-low budget AMD fans out there. PC enthusiasts whose discretionary spending fund is small enough that they can't justify the $20 or $30 step up from the Athlon (or 2400G, or these chips) to the next product in the stack, that many of us would view as a far more reasonable value proposition. So I think that they're part of the target market. My guess that local whitebox builders (who I keep expecting to completely die off, but somehow they never do) are another part of it. Their customers always seem to be split between the local hardcore hackerboiz (I used to be in this category) and people who upgrade their cat-fur-matted email box every 8 years, but refuse to pay more than $89 for a new computer. The rest? I dunno.
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Apr 24, 2020 17:54
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Seamonster posted:Margins aside, what kind of volume do they really think is going to move? OEMs office boxes? No iGPU... Maybe in lower average income countries? It'd be nice to see these in NAS appliances, that would be a giant leap over the unreliable Intel Atoms.
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Apr 24, 2020 18:01
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I still don’t understand who would want one of these over a 1600 AF, but I assume they’ll be marketed as “BETTER AT GAMES” (to budget gamers on a 60Hz monitor).
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Apr 24, 2020 18:02
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Paul MaudDib posted:it depends what the BATNA is, really. Yup. Especially when you consider that the boxed cooler will absolutely cost more on the BOM than the compute die in the chip will. The silicon is the cheap part. The total cost to make a Athlon 3300G and a 3800X are roughly identical, probably in the neighborhood of $40. So these parts mostly exist for market segmentation reasons (trying to scoop up all the customers, including OEM, that couldn't be convinced to buy a $160 3600), which pisses a lot of people off but thats how the market survives I guess. A similar funny story is about how the cheapest "base" package of any given car model is nearly always the most expensive version to produce for the company, due to the limited amount they sell and the need to re-tool/re-train/re-source parts to make em.
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Apr 24, 2020 18:04
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