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Rah! posted:i could have sworn i read up on state defense forces several years ago and got the impression they were a complete joke, but I guess some of them are more than 5 fat guys that stand around once per year lol. But they are small, and do look like they have a lot of old farts among the ranks. Entryism time! How many CA goons can see their toes and dog-jog a mile? That seems to be the cutoff for Basic nowaday.
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Apr 25, 2020 01:50
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Cali having a state militia proves they're fascists
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Apr 25, 2020 02:41
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California and Texas have the top two national guards in terms of overall size (18,000 / 21,000) https://www.wearethemighty.com/military-culture/states-largest-national-guard-units
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Apr 25, 2020 02:50
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etalian posted:California and Texas have the top two national guards in terms of overall size (18,000 / 21,000) state defense forces are similar to the national guard, but are only under the command of the governor (but members can still be drafted into the normal military  ). They're really small though, and only some states have them, and even fewer of them train them for combat stuff.Texas has around 2,000, and CA has around 1,000. Texas apparently doesn't do weapons training though 
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Apr 25, 2020 03:01
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Rah! posted:state defense forces are similar to the national guard, but are only under the command of the governor (but members can still be drafted into the normal military lol https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/these-state-defense-force-not-under-the-control-of-the-commander-in-chief quote:Before rushing to join your state's SDF, be advised there are a lot of controversies surrounding SDFs. In the late 1980's, the governor of Utah had to fire 31 officers for creating an SDF full of neo-nazis, mental patients, and felons. After September 11, 2001, Alaska disbanded its SDF because their lack of actual military training was more of a liability. New York's SDF was full of Generals who have never had any military training, they were appointed by the governor as a reward for support. Some SDFs have no fitness or weight standards (California) while others are highly restrictive (Tennessee requires its SDF members be honorably discharged from the U.S. military).
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Apr 25, 2020 03:10
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Peanut President posted:Cali having a state militia proves they're fascists they even have their own military police lmao
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Apr 25, 2020 03:13
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etalian posted:lol 
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Apr 25, 2020 03:13
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etalian posted:lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Naval_Militia The SDF here actually does stuff like helping with search and rescue.
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Apr 25, 2020 03:18
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Rah! posted:they even have their own military police lmao can’t wait to be shot by the Cali Commisar because they found a Whataburger coupon in military issued swim trunks
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Apr 25, 2020 03:22
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DrSunshine posted:"No!! You can't just give vote by mail to every single person!! That'll just make it easier to vote for the people I hate Noooooooooooo!!" Is this when the Republicans finally complete their plan to force the collapse of the Postal Service? Can’t vote by mail if there is no mail service.
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Apr 25, 2020 04:14
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PipHelix posted:Entryism time! How many CA goons can see their toes and dog-jog a mile? That seems to be the cutoff for Basic nowaday. lowly federal troops will have rascal scooters the gavin defense force will be equipped with a range of tesla cyber scooters and child-sized submersibles as a bonus, CA can use the firefighting experience gained to help control future wildfires caused by the tesla factories
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Apr 25, 2020 04:45
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Orvin posted:Is this when the Republicans finally complete their plan to force the collapse of the Postal Service? Can’t vote by mail if there is no mail service. iirc the post office is a requirement by the constitution
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Apr 25, 2020 05:16
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they can make it useless and have all the mail thats profitable to deliver, be delivered by fedex and all the mail thats not profitable to deliver be burnt
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Apr 25, 2020 05:43
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gavins private army is already spreading the ravenous bear's influence  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uFCoOKlpHg
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Apr 25, 2020 06:06
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Rah! posted:gavins private army is already spreading the ravenous bear's influence KKKalifornia Über Alles
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Apr 25, 2020 06:16
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Real hurthling! posted:they can make it useless and have all the mail thats profitable to deliver, be delivered by fedex and all the mail thats not profitable to deliver be burnt thats fair
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Apr 25, 2020 06:46
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Peanut President posted:iirc the post office is a requirement by the constitution ah yes, something the republicans care strongly about, constitutionality
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Apr 25, 2020 06:50
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Whenever a great empire falls later historians provide a range of dates for "When The Empire Fell" and the earliest "acceptable" historical dates are always at least a generation or two before the citizens of that empire would have agreed that it had fallen. Guess where we are.
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Apr 25, 2020 11:08
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Rah! posted:they even have their own military police lmao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49th_Military_Police_Brigade_(United_States) 
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Apr 25, 2020 11:11
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Kenning posted:Whenever a great empire falls later historians provide a range of dates for "When The Empire Fell" and the earliest "acceptable" historical dates are always at least a generation or two before the citizens of that empire would have agreed that it had fallen. It was Vietnam
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Apr 25, 2020 12:01
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Car Hater posted:It was Vietnam I would argue economically 90s -Last wave of robber baron deregulation under Slick Willy that allowed the FIRE sector to explore even more high risk investments (Derivatives / CDOs) and also allowed them to co-mingle investment banking (Glass Steagal ) -Tech stock casino eventually led to the current contract/gig economy work such as Uber Military/Politically 2000s -9/11 which led to multiple US costly defeats in both Iraq and Afghanistan despite spending trillions of dollars -Trumpy managed to destabilize the Cold War level agreements with his bull in the china shop behavior -Alt right ideas given mainstream power in the US after Trump's 2016 general election victory -For the topic this thread, Trump/GOP saying states should have to work through the CV crisis without any federal help and even mentioned muni level bankruptcy as a solution since no additional Federal aid will be provided
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Apr 25, 2020 12:18
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Not an American, but it is loving wild to know that the entire world order, the only one you've ever known, is past the cliff edge and just hasn't looked down.
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Apr 25, 2020 12:54
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etalian posted:I would argue I'd agree with this. The 90s loaded the gun, 9/11 pulled the trigger. You've got to figure that by the 2008 recession and its aftermath that the world had ample proof that the US military was completely ineffectual, the US economy is mostly illusory, and the US government was absolutely incapable of addressing any of its internal problems. Barring a future catastrophic "this is it" event, 9/11 will likely be seen by future historians as the inflection point where the decline became inevitable.
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Apr 25, 2020 13:21
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LastInLine posted:I'd agree with this. The 90s loaded the gun, 9/11 pulled the trigger. I'd also argue that getting two massive Global level FIRE sector implosions (2008/2020) within a short time period shows how the rapid deregulation of the US economy and transition to contract/gig economy work is making the roller coaster crashing even more pronounced. Probably the smug height of the US global empire was was the Soviet Union collapse and the US could claim that "their" system was better. etalian has issued a correction as of 14:52 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 13:24
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it was the voting rights act in 1965 (which finally ended the civil war 100 years after it started) which lead to realignment and coupling white supremacy with capital (again I guess). this killed FDRs new deal coalition (which wasn’t great anyway) and extinguished any last hope of a good future soon after that the USA had Nixon and its been downhill since
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Apr 25, 2020 13:56
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Car Hater posted:It was Vietnam That was definitely the plateau point. For a Roman comparison, it was like building Hadrians wall. The point were the US had to admit that its empire had reached a physical limit, and had to accept that some regions would just be outside the empire. Nixon ending Bretton Woods shortly afterwards was the classic open secrect debasing the currency event. The oil embargoes further showed the US had reached a limit. Both are more of a peaked empire sort of thing but not necessarily declining. The US was still in dominant position and could have held it for a long time. Historians probably will latch on the 9/11 as day 1 of the decline, because there really hasn't been any gains, or wins, or stability ever since. Beowulfs_Ghost has issued a correction as of 16:40 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 16:38
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People latch onto the Roman Empire comparisons, but other (early) modern European empires seem more applicable? Like, the Dutch, Spanish, French, and British empires are all more recent examples of a state achieving global hegemony (outside of China?) for a few decades before entering a long period of decline. With those examples you actually have various degrees of capitalist development as well. In this comparison, the US just seems to be the latest in a succession of dominant European powers. Probably the last too, as the European power is actually a settler state.
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Apr 25, 2020 16:45
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Lol the British empire at peak absolutely extended their hegemony into China. Opium Wars, Unequal Treaties, outright taking Hong Kong...
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Apr 25, 2020 17:11
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:That was definitely the plateau point. For a Roman comparison, it was like building Hadrians wall. The point were the US had to admit that its empire had reached a physical limit, and had to accept that some regions would just be outside the empire. Plus the US especially with Trump becomes a political laughing stock in which loud blustering ,saber rattling and threats get laughed off by rival superpowers. The US was also forced to sign a cease fire and peace treaty with Taliban in Afghanistan after sinking trillions of dollars into failed nation military building / military actions since 2001.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:12
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Atrocious Joe posted:People latch onto the Roman Empire comparisons, but other (early) modern European empires seem more applicable? Like, the Dutch, Spanish, French, and British empires are all more recent examples of a state achieving global hegemony (outside of China?) for a few decades before entering a long period of decline. With those examples you actually have various degrees of capitalist development as well. There's an even more recent comparison of a giant superpower reaching the end of its ideological and economic rope and splitting into like 15 different countries, and coincidentally it also came after that country's military was bled dry fighting in Afghanistan for a decade.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:21
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I don't think the breakup of the USSR or Yugo are good comparisons to make. If anything I like Robert Evan's thesis that the Syrian Civil War is a better model.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:27
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delian league. you got your nato/imf analogues, your plagues, your exhaustive wars.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:28
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Also It Can Happen Here should be like required listening for the thread, though some parts of it suck
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Apr 25, 2020 17:28
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Naw the last generation will be viewed as our Crisis of the 3rd Century, where the empire SHOULD have fallen, but survived and renewed itself through the deft handling of Aurelian/Trump making things Great Again.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:41
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Britain is an interesting way of looking at things because they basically went from "low tier regional to global hegemon back to low tier regional" in under 200 years, and for a decent chunk of that their position as superpower was continuously rotting - while the deathblow came in 1947, the British ability to profitably exploit their colonies was pretty hosed before WW1 e.g. Morley-Minto was an act of managed decline. (by contrast, Rome 1) had actual revivals after declines, while Britain basically just went up and then down and 2) Rome spent longer collapsing that expanding and 3) it's honestly really debatable when Rome "stopped" mattering, and even the short version is like 1000 years). If we're viewing the US through the Britain lens, we'd be looking at when its necolonial enterprises lost efficiency to the extent that they weren't growing US power. 1982 is Mexico's sovereign default, which has caused rippling and continuous crises in the main mechanisms of neocolonialism (foreign finance manipulation, mostly). Most of the cost of this fell on Latin America - which is similar to how most of the cost of the UK's decline fell on its colonies, so that as a start point makes a certain amount of sense to me.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:47
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chairface posted:Lol the British empire at peak absolutely extended their hegemony into China. Opium Wars, Unequal Treaties, outright taking Hong Kong... Oh yeah, you're right about the British. I was more hesitant to say the Dutch or Spanish extended their hegemony that far.
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Apr 25, 2020 17:48
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Also the Roman Empire didn't fall from political squabbling, economic trouble or even plague, it was slowly beaten to death by barbarian invasions over a thousand years.
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Apr 25, 2020 18:04
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I don't want a managed decline into a regional backwater like Britain or France I want a supernova of collapse like the USSR
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Apr 25, 2020 18:07
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Byzantine posted:Also the Roman Empire didn't fall from political squabbling, economic trouble or even plague, it was slowly beaten to death by barbarian invasions over a thousand years. Epic username/post combo
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Apr 25, 2020 18:11
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decolonization for UK only looks less dramatic than the fall of the USSR if you're only paying attention to the British islands. like, the partition of India by itself was a mass death event
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Apr 25, 2020 18:12
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